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>> I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Stand by. >> Founder. You're watching TV.
4:33
Today is Thursday, March 12th, 2026.
4:37
>> We are in the middle of a blizzard.
4:39
>> We're in the middle of a blizzard.
4:39
This isn't actually that bad, but it is very cold.
4:44
>> What do you mean it's not bad? >> It's not a blizzard. A real blizzard.
4:45
I would not give this a, you know, a 10 out of 10 blizzard. It's barely snow.
4:53
The snow's not high winds.
4:53
Just say you've never been to the East Coast before. True.
4:58
Once a few times, you got jacket on. We're having a fun time.
5:03
>> We're a long way from the TBP and Ultra Dome.
5:04
We will be back there tomorrow.
5:06
There's a ton of news that's going on shaking the timeline that we will be covering in detail tomorrow.
5:09
Uh Dark Cash Patel dropped a response to the Department of Wars moves to designate anthropic supply chain risk.
5:15
There's a whole bunch of interesting nuance conversation.
5:18
We're going to get into some of that today.
5:19
uh uh Patrick Collison uh talked about the nature of drama in Silicon Valley, a very interesting thread that I think we can have a a long conversation about tomorrow.
5:29
And uh Microsoft is fast following OpenAI and Anthropic with Copilot Health uh and OpenAI plans to fold Sora into GPT as the sort of productization of consumer LLMs continues.
5:41
So, we'll be covering those stories tomorrow.
5:43
Uh we want to say thank you to all of our sponsors that make the show possible.
5:45
Uh it'll be a little bit of a shorter show today, but we have a banger lineup.
5:49
So, we're going to kick it off with Dan Ivy's.
5:50
Wait, welcome to the show, Dan Ives. How you doing? >> What's happening?
5:55
>> Thank you so much for taking the time.
5:57
And on this very, very cold day to hop on with us.
6:00
Uh first, introduce yourself.
6:02
Tell us what you do, why you're here. >> Yeah, Dan Ives.
6:05
I've covered tech stocks going back to late 90s, you know, on Wall Street.
6:10
And look, for me, I mean, being here at Palanteer, it's been one of our favorite names, you know, the last few years.
6:16
To me, it's the AI revolution.
6:18
It's almost been the poster child.
6:19
And you know, and I've in my career going back to early days of Apple, Tesla, it's always trying to find who could be the next one of those.
6:27
And you know, my my view the last few years is Palanteer has been been what I view as kind of the golden child of AI. >> Yeah.
6:35
>> Yeah. How do you se work on separating like the narrative the companies say every company who comes out and you know slaps AI on something renames slaps aai on their domain versus it showing up in the financials it's showing up in the metrics >> there's only one carp and one pounder
6:50
and I think if you look at the numbers numbers speaks for themselves and I think the commercial business >> has really been what's been the jawdropper for Wall Street because I think that alone you know could really ultimately be combined of the government business, a trillion dollar company. Yeah. Yeah.
7:07
>> In the next two to three years.
7:07
And I think Palunteer continues to be one where I think investors continue to underestimate just how big they're going to be in this AI revolution. >> Yeah.
7:17
Uh I remember reading the the the is the Airbus case study a while back.
7:22
Have you talked to anyone today uh doing anything particularly interesting in the commercial sector with Palunteer? Like who who sticks out?
7:28
>> 90% of customers here weren't here two years ago. >> Oh yeah.
7:32
>> Oh yeah. So I think it just shows now obviously they've dominated the government you know dominated >> what we've seen across the board the last few years but when it when it comes to commercial >> they they've really changed the whole game and I think what you're seeing is with the AI revolution when it comes to use cases >> Palunteer is the first call and I think
7:52
that's something that's still not factored into the stock in terms of how big the commercial business could be for Palunteer because when you look at the AI revolution of course Nvidia Microsoft You know, you have the semiplays, you
8:05
have software, but I think Palunteer is going to when we look out in the next few years, they are going to be one of the clear standouts in terms of this fourth industrial revolution. >> What uh what advice do you have for
8:15
>> What uh what advice do you have for investors who are seeing geopolitical tensions rise, war, uh there's chaos in the markets, things are jumping up and down, like how do you keep a cool head right now?
8:26
right now? I mean look in 25 years doing this it's like if you sold because of geopolitical in terms of those issues that was the wrong move the last few decades and I think it's one where you take a step back we are in a fourth industrial revolution I think tech stocks ultimately make new all-time highs this year but you have to navigate
8:44
the volatility and the white knuckles the haters come out the bears maybe win the day >> but I think this will be shortlived and that's why to you know if you look what we see from Nvidia to Microsoft to sales source service now and you know to names like Palunteer and some of the cyber security you you have to own the winners in these white knuckle moments. >> Have you been following the latest in
9:04
>> Have you been following the latest in with Nvidia?
9:05
They're going to be training their own open- source models.
9:08
Do you have a thesis of what that means for the company?
9:11
>> Yeah, I think they'll talk about more GTC next week, but but it's our view Nvidia.
9:15
Look, there's only one godfather of AI. It's Jensen Nvidian.
9:19
>> They're they're now going to own more and more of that endto-end platform.
9:21
And I think look, that's the smartest move.
9:24
And The reality is is that they're years ahead when it comes to chips, but when it comes to physical AI, the two best plays in physical AI are going to be Nvidia and Tesla in terms of the two physical best physical AI plays.
9:39
>> I mean, cars, humanoid robots, both. What do you think?
9:42
>> Look, I think when it comes to autonomous, I mean, and you know, Jensen talked about this, you know, when we were there at CES, >> they are looking to go after what's going to be a trillion dollar market opportunity.
9:53
Now, I continue to think Tesla is going to be the ultimate winner when it comes to autonomous, >> but for Nvidia, >> the chips are ultimately going to be fueled by Nvidia.
10:02
Everyone's trying to play, >> every OEM is going to need a an autonomy stack.
10:08
They're going to need the self-driving capability in some degree.
10:11
Even if, you know, people are just driving the weekend, the car on the weekend for fun, they're still going to want to be able to throw it into autonomous mode to get home at the end of the day.
10:19
an 8-year-old today doesn't need a driver's license when they're 16.
10:24
And I think I think going back to your point, it's easy to get in these moods where geopolitical white knuckle moments.
10:32
>> But if you look, I think ultimately Tesla autonomous is worth a trillion dollars going to a Tesla story.
10:36
And I think Nvidia a year from now, we're looking at a five, you know, five trillion we talk about, but I think six trillion market cap by 2027 still continues to be our call. >> Yeah. Um, you were at CES.
10:50
>> What else did you see that was cool?
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What was under the radar?
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What were like the small trends, the little gadgets?
10:53
I feel like CES is sort of like uh world's fair for cool tech.
10:58
Like what stuck out to you?
11:00
Not even as an investor, just personally, you were like that was fun.
11:02
>> Look, I think robotics like when you look like serve robotics would be a good example like autonomous in terms of what we see.
11:08
>> The robotics coming out I think is really going to be >> related to also physical AI.
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>> related to also physical AI. I think that is really going to be the game changer >> and who are the chip players that are going to fuel that of course it's Nvidia but then you look down the sort of semi food chain I think >> robotics we talk about optimist with Tesla
11:29
>> humanoid robotics we are still in the early days of where this is all going and I think look CES for so many years >> day zero like they're they don't they barely exist right now it's demos >> but that's why we're year three >> into an 8 to 10 year buildout the AI revolution
11:45
>> and I think those that are that are getting embarrassed they're going to miss what I view as the next legis do you think the humanoid robots will find more traction in consumer like every person has one it's doing their dishes it's doing their laundry or are we going to not really see these things because
12:01
they're going to be in factories first >> well I think at first it's facto that's what we're seeing with test I think that's going to be the first key use cases but then consumer I think we look out three four years humanoid robots are going to be something that will become common. >> Everybody has a Roomba already.
12:15
>> Everybody has a Roomba already.
12:16
>> Look, people are used to it.
12:18
>> It goes back to like if you go back over the last 10, 20 years, I could go through many instance where everyone's like Apple, why would you why do you do an iPhone when you have a Blackberry? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Why?
12:28
Why ultimately >> were you following Apple in the '90s? >> Yeah.
12:31
And I think that >> Do you remember what was it like?
12:32
We were just reading about Larry Ellison yesterday and he was thinking about Apple at one point.
12:39
>> Look, what was that like?
12:39
It goes back to like and and I've followed Ellison from the beginning going back to late night.
12:44
It's like >> it's trying to explain to investors that these things now look easy and no-brainers from Apple >> Tesla.
12:53
But at the point >> like when you look in 2007, okay, a year later, financial crisis happens.
13:00
Investors were like, "This is a one-year AT&T phone.
13:02
Why would anyone leave their Blackberry?"
13:07
$700 at a time when everything I mean you could kind of get it subsidized to maybe 400 but that was still like four times the price of most cell phon >> and the view was that they were never going to get to 100 million iPhones and you're at 1.
13:18
5 billion today but but it goes back to I could go through many times and test I go 2022 Jensen why are you spending money when it comes to AI you're you're essentially GPU gaming company the point is >> we're going through one of those periods >> sure sure >> but I I think it's going to be proven to be, you know, the opportunity to own the the tech winners and pounder being one.
13:41
>> How did you process Oracle's quarter?
13:43
>> I think it was a huge step in the right direction for software because right now it's an AI ghost trade.
13:46
Anthropic has obviously been a big part >> AI ghost trade.
13:51
Explain that term >> cuz you're fighting a ghost. >> Okay.
13:55
>> When you when it comes to anthropic, we're going to get into cyber security.
13:59
Look what happens to crowdstrike powd and others.
14:01
We're going to get into software.
14:02
Look at sales force service now.
14:04
It's a ghost trade because the reality is that the data, the stacks, the install base, that's who's going to be the use cases and that's why Palunteer being one, but I'm a huge believer Salesforce, Service Now, and others.
14:17
When you >> resilient, you're you're a believer in this.
14:20
>> I'm a huge believer that this is the most disconnected tech trade that I've seen in my career >> relative to the software.
14:25
You could call it a SAS apocalypse, but I but I'd call it a ghost trade because you're fighting a ghost.
14:31
a ghost. M >> Oracle first step in that direction toward fighting the ghost trade and I think it speaks to like look Ellison you know covering going back to you know 25 years >> that's someone that understands where they need to get to would you take out 50 billion of debt
14:50
>> to get to 6 to 700 billion of market opportunity that's what they're doing I do the same thing >> yeah yeah the backlog's massive right now uh well thank you so much for taking the time to be here great to finally meet you stay warm out You're you're not you're not quite dressed for it, but you know how you do it. >> Appreciate it. Well, thank you so much. >> Appreciate it. Well, thank you so much.
15:09
We're going to take this headset off, pass it over to our next guest. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much.
15:13
We'll >> we'll keep you quick.
15:16
We'll keep it short, but thank you so much for joining.
15:20
Please uh throw on this headset and then introduce yourself starts to melt the [laughter] jacket.
15:28
You really have a bunch here. Let's go.
15:30
Uh, so please introduce yourself and the company. >> Yeah, I'll do that.
15:31
Before I do, thanks for having me. Your headphone flipped.
15:36
>> Okay, >> this one like >> flip it down there. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, these. >> Okay.
15:42
So, thanks for having me.
15:44
>> And I'm hopefully going to be in the studio next time.
15:47
>> Yeah, we'd love to have you. Great.
15:49
>> But no, I'm Eric Brock.
15:49
I'm the chairman CEO of Andas Listed Company. >> Yeah.
15:53
>> Uh, we're a defense and security technology company. We focus on drones.
15:56
So, we have aerial platforms.
15:56
We have counter drone platforms which are particularly uh valuable as part of the cycle.
16:02
>> We've got ground robots and what we're trying to do is build this portfolio >> systems of systems to begin to integrate the air and the ground and those capabilities and of course that's why I'm at this AIP.
16:11
>> That makes a ton of sense.
16:12
>> First time on the show.
16:12
Can you give us some history on the company, how you got to this point? >> Yeah, sure.
16:16
So, you know, we have uh if you look at our our chart, it looks like we're an overnight success, but as you you know, you talk to guys like me all the time.
16:24
This is a good, you know, 10 plus years in doing what we we do.
16:26
Um, and you know, we're doing God's work to really build the technology and these this is autonomous systems is complex.
16:35
It's a marriage of hardware and software.
16:36
You got to get in the field, make it work.
16:38
>> Uh, and it takes time.
16:38
And this is not just for us, it's the industry.
16:40
And what we're seeing for us for sure, but the industry more generally is that the techn is maturing, right?
16:45
And we're making it useful with customers.
16:47
So, we're on an adoption curve.
16:49
So you know the the history of the company is we've been developing technology for a number of years. That's the core.
16:54
Um >> yeah what was the first product?
16:57
Was it actually like you build a product, you sell it to the government? Was that what that was? >> Yeah, essentially.
17:02
So we've got you know our first uh product was a drone in a box.
17:06
So this is a drone infrastructure.
17:09
It lives in a it's a docking station >> and then it takes off. >> Yeah. It's got robotic arm.
17:12
We can swap batteries and payloads. Sure.
17:13
And that's used for say drone as first responder, right?
17:17
The Dubai police are deploying this drones everywhere. they fly. So, uh, very useful.
17:21
Uh, but what's particularly important about that and was really helpful for us to start to to to break out is it works, right?
17:26
These these technologies helpful. It works.
17:30
[laughter] >> So, um, but you know, as we've evolved that, you know, in terms of history, I I'll fast forward.
17:34
Um, you know, once we were able to sort of demonstrate that we can we can take these to the to the end zone and start to build markets and build customers.
17:42
>> You know, we really began to become aware of the bigger opportunity.
17:44
There's many many players.
17:46
I say drones, but it's on the ground. They're in the air air.
17:49
or they're in the water and all the critical components around these systems.
17:52
Uh we've built a lot of companies and they're maturing.
17:54
However, we built technology platforms.
17:56
Now we have to build businesses and that's what is about.
18:00
So we begun to consolidate and bring these port, you know, these capabilities into a portfolio.
18:03
But it's not just separate.
18:06
We're going to integrate them.
18:07
You get scale going to market.
18:08
You get supply chain scale and that's the whole thesis around our financial model.
18:12
>> So there's there's part of it that's more private equity roll up.
18:14
There's also an investing arm.
18:16
You take minority stakes as well.
18:17
is when you make an investment, are you always looking to build a position over time to where you could own the full company or are you also looking at those like venture capital bets where they will just uh you know perform financially? >> Yeah.
18:30
So, so the answer is yes. Okay.
18:32
So, it's all of that and really what we believe is that um there's a couple things.
18:36
So, so most of our capital is deployed in control investments because we want to get that leverage.
18:39
We want to focus on mature technologies.
18:41
At the same time, the ecosystem is really important.
18:44
And I think what particularly when we're coming into the public markets because we're transitioning from venture funded companies to now they're maturing.
18:51
You know, we need growth capital.
18:52
It's a different business model.
18:54
It's a different cost of capital and that's where deploying.
18:56
So, one of the things we've been trying to do is the public markets are not as as um familiar with a lot of these technologies and systems as compared to the private markets.
19:04
That's where they were born.
19:06
So as a leader and the leader we want to be, we think the market needs is we're trying to shine lights and support some of the ecosystem players because we need the ecosystem to grow up around us to get scale, right?
19:15
So even places where you might say, "Hey, they're competing."
19:19
Is that not really leaders have to come together because the the supply chain needs us.
19:23
We can't be a cottage industry of hundreds of drone players.
19:26
The leaders have to come and if I can help identify that for you know the public markets u that's important and we get value from it and of course we can make money. >> Yeah.
19:35
So, uh, tell me more about the disconnect, uh, between the business and the market.
19:41
I'm I'm interested to know, uh, there's a lot of investors out there that they don't even need to know the product, use the product, but they know if it's SAS, it's going to recur, it's going to be revenue, there's going to be some high gross margins, some cost, low capex, etc.
19:54
Like, how is your business and the business lines that you have, how are they different from uh, other companies that are in the market?
20:00
companies that are in the market? Is it you're doing deals with the government so you're working on programs of record the money comes later but the contract values get deployed earlier like how financially is it different >> there's a lot of that but maybe Leo I'll start at the most simple level which is where you started which is the drone right the drone in and of itself by and
20:19
large is a commodity right it's not hard to build a quadcopter even a fixed wing drone >> what is hard to is to make them autonomous right that it's another layer of of of development and sophistication uh So that's one and then the second
20:33
layer here is bringing the systems together right air and ground putting the command and control around it and of course that's where Palunteer is really going to help us at at massive scale. >> Uh but that's where you start to uh
20:42
>> Uh but that's where you start to uh differentiate and that's where you can capture margin that's where you can capture recurring uh program business and the and and the thing about the markets are a lot of what we're doing is infrastructure.
20:53
So think about counter drone.
20:55
There's a massive number of locations across the world that need to be protected and this is not going to be just hey this year we're going to protect from from drone threats.
21:02
It's 10 years to build this cycle. This is too big.
21:06
>> If that way the last two weeks have uh taught us anything is that it's any any targets on the table commercial or military >> particularly. Yeah.
21:15
I mean you know they they attack the economy right and I think this is a threat that we're seeing today.
21:20
the public safety, the homeland security officials, the the department of war, they've been preparing for this for a long long time, but it's hard. Yeah.
21:28
Uh so you're seeing a lot of technologies including ours that were under a faster pace of maturation >> and uh but we're here.
21:34
It's going to happen, but it's going to take some time and it is urgent.
21:37
And so then the other question is I get a lot is okay, what happens if peace breaks out?
21:41
Well, I don't know that anyone's expecting that soon, but eventually we hope that that does happen.
21:46
um we still have to have this protection because you can't you can't you can't be vulnerable.
21:50
The lower skies as they say um you know is technology is now made them you know is a different threat than we've ever had particularly on US soil. Sure.
21:58
So again this is you ask about the business model you can think about this as an infrastructure bill for a decade or longer.
22:05
So and then of course when you're installing infrastructure you have to service it you have to upgrade it.
22:09
So there's a lot of recurring elements here in our financial model.
22:12
>> That makes a ton of sense.
22:12
Well thank you so much for taking the time.
22:15
Hopefully we'll see you in the studio much warmer next time.
22:17
Let's pop off those headphones and we will bring over our next guest.
22:21
Um, thank you so much for hopping on >> and we will continue our coverage today. Good to meet you. >> How you doing? >> Good to see you.
22:31
Let's throw this headphone set on.
22:33
And >> can you do it over the hat?
22:36
>> Can you do it over the hat? I don't know what we do.
22:37
You can put the head over the Oh, there you go. That works.
22:39
See if I got throw back on.
22:42
[snorts] >> That works great.
22:44
Actually, can you hear me? Okay, >> I can. Can you hear me?
22:47
Okay, >> we can hear you just fine.
22:51
>> First time on the show.
22:51
Please introduce yourself and the company.
22:54
>> Uh, my name is Casey Lane and I work for a western sports entertainment and media company called Teton Ridge.
22:59
We do a number of things >> across the sports media and entertainment.
23:04
Um, all focused around western lifestyle and western sports. >> That's great.
23:08
What are the most popular sports that you're covering?
23:12
>> So, we have a television network and a uh subscriptionbased streaming company called Cowboy Channel and Cowboy Plus.
23:20
So, we have a linear channel and then we have a subscription app that covers all of >> professional rodeo um on the PRCA, which is the primary sanctioning body of professional rodeo.
23:30
>> And then we also have a bull riding team uh in the TKO PBR owned uh PBR teams league.
23:37
So those are the two biggest two of the biggest.
23:40
We also produce a massive rodeo >> uh Memorial Day weekend at Globe Life Field in Arlington >> and uh do a variety of other things in western sports.
23:50
We have a Hollywood division that produces scripted unscripted movies all kinds of stuff uh around western sports >> lifestyle.
23:56
A few years ago I followed JB Monty a little bit.
23:59
Who's who are the big stars these days?
24:01
So, the big stars of bull riding right now, um, you know, they they vary from sort of team to team, space to space.
24:08
Um, on our team, >> we have a couple of guys that are like, you know, chiseled old veterans, couple of Brazilian guys, and then we have a a sort of middle-aged bull rider, I would call him.
24:19
He'd love to hear me call him that, [laughter] named Keshan White who's like our team.
24:23
Yeah, he's a good name for he's awesome.
24:28
>> But then like there's some emerging talent.
24:29
Um, there's a kid out of North Carolina named Klay Gayton.
24:31
There's a kid that's on Florida's team, but grew up in Texas, uh, named John Kimber.
24:35
So, >> uh, always new talent coming in.
24:38
We, uh, Colby, who's my head coach, just spent four days in Brazil at a at a combine that PBR puts on down in Brazil to try to find new and emerging talent down there as well. So, >> very cool.
24:49
Uh, how's the business growing overall?
24:51
There's a lot of turmoil in media, a lot of consolidation, but I imagine with the internet, there's more people just becoming aware of bull riding, of western lifestyle sports broadly, but what's it been like the last couple years?
25:04
>> Yeah, I mean, it's it's no secret in the market that Western has, you know, had a renaissance, right?
25:08
Um, a combination of of co and uh and the Taylor Sheridan Yellowstone say there's so many different funnels into this world.
25:15
And I look at like I give I will give Taylor all the credit in the world, but also I look at it as like >> you know that's a little bit of the canary in the coal mine.
25:24
Um I think you know >> people particularly in the US have grown up farther and farther away from farming and ranching.
25:33
>> People are moving to the cities >> but it's always part of our ethos right as Americans there's this thing right here is >> the most iconic American symbol that there is really no one on the weekends. I'll say that. >> I do. I do >> the weekdays.
25:49
>> And so that that sort of cultural, you know, phenomenon of what sort of Yellowstone brought and what CO brought getting people back outdoors, you know, they couldn't go on vacation, so you know, I'm going to buy a I'm going to buy an RV and a side by side and go see the West and all those types of things.
26:05
>> Are you guys are you guys trying to manufacture some type of drive to survive moment?
26:08
Because I think what that obviously Drive to Survive introduced the sport more broadly to Americans, but it also drilled down into the individual talent, which that's something that Taylor Sheridan like the Taylor Sheridan industrial content complex is not getting into the talent that you guys recover.
26:29
>> Yeah, I think um it's definitely on the road map of projects that we're looking at.
26:33
U we've done some stuff, PBR has done some stuff.
26:36
There was a show on Amazon a couple years ago around the first year of our of the teams league that we participate in.
26:42
>> But um you know what we are really what you know my belief is that we have this we have the attention of the country um and and for to some extent the world right uh that that's looking at western >> the place where people attach passion is sports.
26:59
So, how do we take that interest in Western and drive it towards sport?
27:05
Because that's a place where we're heavily invested, right?
27:06
Like I said, we have a whole television network and and streaming app in Cowboy Plus that is dedicated to the business of rodeo and and rodeo media.
27:14
So, >> it's it's definitely something and and we're, you know, we sort of have extensions, too.
27:20
Like our big rodeo that I talked about that we produce in Arlington, the American, is actually on Fox. Okay.
27:25
Yeah, it's not even on our own platform because we're trying to widen the aperture a little bit and get more people into the top of the funnel >> to drive them into that sort of fandom.
27:35
>> What uh what's the the next country outside of Brazil that's uh pipeline for talent?
27:41
>> Uh bull riding in particular is very popular in Canada, Australia.
27:47
>> Yeah, >> Brazil, uh US obviously Mexico, um Argentina is a sort of a new frontier.
27:52
A lot of it has to do with the level of bull talent that those countries have access to. >> Interesting.
27:59
There's two layers basically. >> Yeah.
28:01
Because if a guy is really good in Argentina right now, he probably needs to go to Brazil >> and get on a little bit better bull and then come here to get on like the highest caliber of bull, right?
28:10
Like if you took a kid straight from Argentina and put him on our bulls, it would be like uh, >> you know, going from the pony rides to, you know, riding thoroughbreds. You know what I mean?
28:23
Just because they don't have that level, not not that they're not that the the talent's not as good, they just don't have access to the kind of bullpower that we do here.
28:32
>> Are there any uh science or technology stories that uh the industry is grappling with?
28:36
I'm thinking about uh cloning prize bulls or genetic engineering or performance-enhancing drugs.
28:43
like are there any uh areas where the community has sort of grappled with and found uh like a you know happy medium on these new tech?
28:53
>> Um [sighs and gasps] well there's a there's a lot of there's a lot of those scenarios over the years that that have been relevant.
28:59
Genetics is a huge part of >> the bucking bull and bucking animal business.
29:04
Um you know it's like >> it's like anything else.
29:07
You know raceh horses run fast. >> Exactly.
29:10
Labradors chase tennis balls and buck and bulls buck.
29:12
You bring bulls that buck to daughters of other bulls that buck and you get more bulls that buck. >> There you go.
29:18
>> But there's a a ton to the genetics and there has been some cloning projects and things like that. >> Okay.
29:24
>> You know, really the the revolution, >> the next revolution I think in technology in western sports is what we're doing right now with TWWGAI and Palunteer.
29:31
Um, and we're bringing uh we're building a video analytics platform that >> [clears throat] >> um basically >> tracks the animal, the rider >> um to provide data. >> It's moneyball.
29:46
>> It's moneyball to and we pair that with the actual >> data from, you know, scoring and timing. >> Yeah.
29:53
And we're building um to the best of our ability to predict um you know predicted outcome models of this type of bull with this particular rider this you know the these sort of different scenarios.
30:06
We're using it on the broadcast side to really dive dive deeper uh for the fan base into, you know, why is this why was that ride scored that way?
30:16
You know, well, we can go back to this, you know, analytics platform and show you, you know, with with graphics and with with the data, >> you know, why this bull bucked harder than that bull essentially.
30:26
So, that those are the kinds of things that we're working on right now >> um >> to do two things.
30:32
is one on the bull riding team side to make us better and give us a competitive advantage >> uh and then sell the >> viewership >> pieces and parts of it maybe to some of our competitors um [laughter] as the analytics platform and then on the viewership side it really is about informing um informing the fans.
30:47
I mean look you watch an NFL game now you know when a guy does a punt return oh wow that guy ran you know 23 miles an hour or whatever the number is.
30:57
We don't have that stuff in rodeo yet but we're building that right now. >> Yeah.
31:01
Uh h how do you think about these like mustsea events like creating like the Super Bowl moment amplifying all the energy in the entire broader industry into like one singular day, minute, hour?
31:13
Uh what is the strategy there currently?
31:16
Where do you want to see it going?
31:18
>> So that manifests itself in in each of the different sports verticals differently like in professional bull riding.
31:26
Um, that moment is the team championships in November at T-Mobile Arena in Vegas.
31:32
>> In traditional rodeo, uh, in the PRCA, that's 10 days in Las Vegas in December during the NFR.
31:39
>> Um, but but just like you say that, you know, sports are about moments in time.
31:44
Our rodeo that we do, >> uh, the American is like the US Open, right?
31:48
It's the top five in each discipline against a group of of you know five in every you know five per discipline from every you know every other part of the world that have competed on a track through a series of qualifiers and and regionals to get the chance to compete against the best in the world.
32:07
And if they beat the best in the world they win a million bucks.
32:10
Actually this year they win two million bucks million cuz last year nobody won it and it rolled over. Oh, nice.
32:16
>> So, that's kind of, you know, those are sort of like the big moments in time right now in in in western sports. >> Yeah.
32:22
How do you think about uh the the creator economy broadly, the the personal Instagrams was following like saw someone uh who does uh F1 racer and he's on Twitch in the simulator and you just have this like ability to go to the actual event but then also open up your phone and continue that experience.
32:42
How important is the continuation of the experience across the internet these days?
32:48
>> Uh it's hugely important.
32:48
Um we and we've we've done a number of events.
32:53
We've got a we've got a guy in our company who runs our our uh fantasy gaming business who's a former contestant.
32:59
contestant. um who's a really energetic sort of you know personality >> and he has done several hosted events where we take the live rodeo feed from our Cowboy Plus product and push it through you know alternate platforms
33:15
like Twitch and bring in people >> to host on their own channels that have never watched it before and interact with him asking questions like what's you know >> what what the hell are these guys doing what's going on there you know so >> um
33:28
>> that's a space we're just sort of trying to figure out I think right now but >> in terms of like you know the influencer community >> you know our athletes have found >> sort of their own voice there right cuz in rodeo >> you know until these until teams came
33:45
along in bull riding rodeo everybody's like an independent contractor right so my ability as a contestant to >> monetize my very short career is you know can I put a logo on my shirt that's going to get caught on TV Yeah. >> So they can go to these bigger and you
34:06
>> So they can go to these bigger and you know you got to pay me X because I've got this many followers and I'm talking about your brand every week and that kind of stuff.
34:15
>> What's your most uh memorable bull ride [snorts] for yourself?
34:19
>> So I was never a bull rider.
34:21
>> But you have to have taken one out at some point.
34:22
>> Never really dangerous. >> Uh so dangerous.
34:24
It's [laughter] one of those um look I so I did the time events in in traditional rodeo growing up.
34:29
My dad was a bull rider and I think uh as much my dad but more so my mom having been married to a bull rider made sure that I never even looked in that direction.
34:42
>> Um but I'm pretty convinced I don't have >> the thing.
34:47
>> Um there's a thing the thing is the ability to suspend fear.
34:51
>> Yeah, >> it really is.
34:52
And and every every active bull rider will tell you that they're not scared.
34:56
And every retired bull rider five years later when he looks back on it says, "No, it's not about not being scared.
35:02
It's about being able to convince yourself that you're not scared." >> There you go.
35:06
>> For that moment that cuz when you, [snorts] you know, I'd love for you guys to come to an event, right?
35:09
Get behind the shoots >> when the whole thing is when the whole, >> you know, 25,000 lbs of steel around you is shaking because a bull's moving >> and he's 1,800 lb. >> Yeah.
35:21
and a 140 pound guy is about to climb over the chute and get on him.
35:26
[laughter] Like there's I just don't have it.
35:26
I It just doesn't It just doesn't exist in my brain.
35:31
The ability to just shut that switch off and say I don't blame you.
35:34
>> Sounds like you have it.
35:34
I would love to see just I I have full faith you do it. You're good. I'll be watching. I'll be rooting for you.
35:41
>> And and look, I mean, we you know, I compare it.
35:43
Uh you know, there's a lot of comparables, right?
35:46
You think about um you know indie car drivers that are going you know 240 mph down the backstretch at at Indianapolis or you think about >> you know motorcycle racers or or UFC guys and UFC guys compare a lot to that I think.
36:02
>> Um >> but to a person when you bring those guys >> 180 pounds >> to to a person when you bring those guys to a PBR event and they watch it live they they're like I I can't believe that this that this is a thing.
36:14
We just had uh we were just in Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago and we had Ben Rothllessberger with us on the back of the shoots and he was just going crazy cuz he'd not, you know, been up that that close and personal with us.
36:26
>> Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
36:29
>> I look forward to coming to event.
36:30
>> Grab those headphones from you and have a great rest of your day. >> We do. Thank you.
36:34
>> We'll talk to you soon.
36:34
Welcome back to the show.
36:38
>> Hey, it's been a little over a year, right? Did we talk to you last? >> Good to see you, Ted.
36:42
Uh, for those who aren't familiar, please introduce yourself.
36:45
Tell us, how long have you been working at Palunteer?
36:48
>> I've been here 16 years. >> 16 years. There we go. There we go.
36:53
>> Is this the coldest AIP con you've been to yet? You're freezing.
36:56
>> I got married down the street actually.
36:58
Uh, and an outdoor wedding with no contingency plan for >> and weather was great.
37:04
>> Oh, weather was great.
37:05
>> So, you picked the venue this year.
37:07
[laughter] You got good luck. This is the bad luck.
37:09
But >> you only roll the dice so many times. talk about your role.
37:12
Talk about how it's changing.
37:14
I'm very interested to know how the role of the forward deployed engineer is changing this year, this month because of AI agents, but take me through a little bit of the history and how you think it progresses from here. >> Yeah.
37:26
Uh so my role primarily for 16 years, what I've been doing is going on site deploying our software over and over and over again.
37:34
>> Uh and I think the this year question is really preient because >> uh having done it for 16 years, I'm pretty good at it.
37:39
I kind of know know how to do it.
37:40
And as I go and see what our teams are doing, it looks like a complete alien.
37:45
This is I don't recognize it. Sure. At all.
37:48
>> Uh is that speak of timing or actual roles or what people are doing?
37:53
>> I think there are two things that are prim that are actively changed and then two implications of it that really the two things have actually changed is the timing uh the pace is uh rapidly accelerating to zero.
38:05
accelerating to zero. you can start and within a day you can have an application that actually matters to a business >> and that >> and what's driving that is that is that your guys' internal process or is it the technology getting better >> um I think it's three things one is I mean maybe most important is the market
38:23
is now demanding much more from software than it's ever demanded before and so that cultural expectation is a huge part of it of like this has to matter this has to be in the fight you know this has to be really relevant >> everyone's used chat GPC like they know what it's capable of and then they show
38:37
up to work and they're like why am I still there's magical >> sucks yeah work work sucks >> uh and yeah and that demand is huge and it is like a huge accelerator for us then the second is have you been building the infrastructure that presume the models are going to get better >> uh and the mo and if you're ahead of the infrastructure and you're presuming like
38:56
hey what's going to have to be where these things are actually loadbearing in very highly consequential regulated decisions that have to be made a thousand times which integrate different decision-m processes across system or across people across systems, you're going to need infrastructure that's able to do it. That that infrastructure has
39:09
That that infrastructure has matured a lot over time and then the models themselves are getting better.
39:15
>> And so that means that you can now have software go from legacy rigid defined by its limitations to immediate adaptive and it can be embodied maybe not like literally embodied but embodied in the way that you want it to be such that it works.
39:28
Which is the second thing that I think is just dramatically changing about the process which is it never made sense for your best people to engage with what the technology is that runs your business.
39:38
>> Uh when you think about like every organization has this at the edge and they have it in the C in the seauite. Okay.
39:45
>> They have the thing at the edge which is like the guy who runs the plant. >> Yep.
39:48
>> And the guy who runs the plant knows why it works.
39:49
He knows why it breaks every time something needs to be fixed.
39:51
Like you know John, right?
39:53
Like John makes makes the plant work.
39:55
And in some ways, John was like the least levered person by technology because everything you'd buy with enterprise technology would be to standardize to enable management.
40:01
And that person worked around the system.
40:05
They had their access databases, their own Excel macros.
40:06
They had their own way of operating. >> Sure.
40:09
>> Now the technology can be John's Iron Man suit. >> Yeah.
40:12
>> And so that means that it now makes sense for John to spend all their time and you have to earn this.
40:16
This is what the forward deploy engineer do is earn the time of the best people so they can dictate what the system is that actually runs so that their company can be more differentiated over time. Right.
40:24
>> And then at the top, you can do this with the the CEO in a lot of my conversations is this is what the company that is going to dominate my industry is going to look like in 2030.
40:32
And then our FD's job is to say, okay, let's get an MVP of that done by Easter.
40:36
>> Do companies I mean in this world where companies are demanding more from software?
40:40
Uh do they do they understand what Palunteer does?
40:43
Do they understand the value prop more now?
40:44
Is it easier to explain to them or is it getting more complicated because the tools are more complicated and the capabilities are more complicated?
40:51
Um it's easier to explain because we spend no time explaining it and all you do is show it.
40:56
Uh and so it's like uh the tortured explanation I kind of think which is >> uh a derivative of I need to understand everything because this decision that I'm going to make I'm going to be stuck with forever.
41:06
I'm going to be locked into this system.
41:07
I'm going to have to use it.
41:08
This is like made sense for how people procured enterprise technology analytical process these things.
41:12
And now it's like show me that it works.
41:16
>> Y >> and show me that it works.
41:16
And so I want to spend virtually no time explaining why it works and just showing you how it works and then let's talk about how to make it work 10 times better for you.
41:25
>> So put aside like Palunteers hiring plans and just talk to me about the American economy.
41:30
Do we need more forward deployed engineers as like a society for where we're going?
41:37
>> Um I think the thing that the forward deployed engineers embodies for us uh and why I always get a little bit stuck you know I talk to a lot of companies that are like hey we're thinking about the FD model. Does it make sense? Are we going to do it?
41:49
>> Um, and the place where I always get >> stuck is, well, if you're not building our company, I'm not sure you should do forward deployed engineers.
41:54
I don't think it's intrinsically good or or it's intrinsically bad.
41:57
The reason we do forward deployed engineers is our core philosophy, the core business strategy is that we're going to build the technology so our customers win.
42:05
>> And if that's your your core thesis, then of course you need forward deployed engineers because if you want to win, you have to be able to deliver and you have to be able to do it.
42:12
>> And then you also need to figure out for our customers when we also have to win.
42:15
We have to scale our capabilities.
42:15
We have to be able to invest in R&D.
42:16
So we have to be a figure out how to synthesize those things back into scalable technologies that allow us to deliver for our customers more and more over time.
42:24
That is a highly tasteful exercise of like what gets synthesized, what gets productized.
42:28
Frankly, I think if you didn't have Sham, it would be impossible.
42:31
Like I wouldn't do it that way.
42:33
But the thing that I think forward deployed engineering does embody which I would argue we need more of in society is it's sort of the rejection of the financialization and managerialism that defines what you think a business can look like with software versus saying the point of software is to enable creation.
42:48
It's to enable the end customer to work.
42:50
And by the way we've proven that you can do that and build a really scalable profitable business at the same time. >> Yeah.
42:56
>> Where where where do FTEEs fit into the customer life cycle?
42:59
Is it is it uh is it kind of a reoccurring engagement?
43:02
I'm thinking about the last two weeks.
43:05
We have so many different supply chain disruptions.
43:09
A lot of companies that are that are leveraging Palanteer to run their operations.
43:13
Uh are they uh are are I imagine the systems are are built to be able to withstand chaos.
43:19
That's kind of the point.
43:21
But at the same time, do you ever redeploy forward uh forward deployed engineers during moments like this?
43:28
>> Yeah, I would think of it in two ways.
43:29
One is for us the forward deployed engineer is a capex investment right you're installing the factory you're building the initial ontology you're training the the existing customer to be able to wield the technology in the way that they want it to and forward
43:40
deployed engineering done well is kind of kind of a capex investment and then the place where it's not is and where you do have re-engagement is our goal [snorts] is to continue to push the bounds of the ambition of like what do you want to do not can I deliver the
43:53
same thing more efficiently to the next customer but given what you've done today have you thought about doing this >> and have you thought about doing that and pushing the boundaries of the creativity and then having the connect connectivity back with our core platform
44:03
team to say we're going to completely throw away our entire roadmap and focus this around this one singular customer because if we can do this they can win and by the way we're going to build the primitives that allow us to build things that our other customers win with. How
44:11
How much of the discussion between FTEES and Palanteer folks and uh corporations is around just explaining the capabilities of modern AI models versus previously um like what a software system could look like?
44:31
Like how is that changing?
44:31
Um >> because it feels like we're in this crazy capability overhang where like the models move so fast, the technology is getting so much better that you can take two weeks off and come back and that thing that you were smashing your head against the wall on has just been one shot by the latest model. >> Yeah.
44:51
I I don't know in my world where we live >> that isn't true.
44:56
>> that isn't true. like we've seen very little what I would call like cannibalization of of the existing thing but we have seen [snorts] the I get to redeemp this problem I could re reorganize around what these things are and so a lot of it is a >> are you building an engine that presumes change in the underlying technology or are you presing what most enterprise IT
45:16
are systems people organizations are which are I need to presume stability and manage risk cost and effect you do need to now build a system that presumes rapid rate of change >> yeah so where where are you seeing more value in using uh generative AI models to build deterministic software faster versus actually deploying a stochcastic model, a non-deterministic model into an enterprise workflow. Because I imagine
45:40
Because I imagine that a lot of your systems, a lot of your customers are saying, "Look, I don't care that the latest model is 99. 99%.
45:48
I would rather have a system that's 100% verifiable because at least I know that if I've defined it in a particular way with business logic, I get the same output no matter what." >> Yeah.
45:56
I can tell you the antsy pattern and the pattern that's working.
45:58
So the antsy patterns are called like the pjoratively the private equity mindset of how to deploy this tough software which is you have now three types of call it cognition computation.
46:08
You have traditional computing, you have human thought and then you have generative AI.
46:14
>> Uh the the uh the private equity model is saying I'm going to take this new form of of cognition and try and replace old forms of cognition and do the exact same thing I'm doing before with but with slightly fewer heads.
46:25
So then you you have the anxiety around job loss.
46:28
You have the hey I'm going to increase margins but but but so what and I think that is uh a dramatic underuse of the technology.
46:35
One it's a lot harder than it looks to do that to turn something that's non-deterministic into something that is deterministic.
46:40
But more importantly it's why would you do that?
46:43
It's so powerful if you put it into whites space like let it run like a thoroughbred by decomping problems into where it's actually useful versus trying to replace something in the old kind of slurotic enterprise technology estate. >> Yeah.
46:55
>> Yeah. uh how have you processed there's a bunch of AI rollups holding companies people you know venture people that are trying to uh maybe take something out of the PE playbook but uh build some type of advantage by applying AI better how like what do you think their prospects are one of those things that sounds uh
47:14
sounds really straightforward uh but uh easier said than done >> yeah I I don't know any specifics so it's hard to me to appine what they're doing but the first question that I would ask is to um understand what the culture of those companies are and why I think like private equity is just uh culturally not built to do technology. >> Uh to do this technology right, you have
47:33
>> Uh to do this technology right, you have to presume that you're wrong at the outset, not presume that you're right.
47:38
That's very hard from my experience with working with folks in private equity.
47:41
And so if you can build a culture that presumes that you need to create, iterate, and discover what the thing ought to be versus do the deductive kind of >> uh management consultant playbook of, you know, I've talked to all of these firms and like the weird thing is everybody ends up with the exact same target that they're going to go to because they have the exact same deductive framework of like this is what it looks like.
47:59
They process a lot of papers.
48:00
It's like okay and then somehow everyone's doing accounting roll up.
48:02
So then where's the alpha?
48:03
Like the investment thesis is done and then I think the execution is going to be a lot harder than they think it is. >> Yeah.
48:08
Well, Ted May, thank you so much for taking the time. >> Great to have you.
48:11
Thanks for having grab those headphones and talk to you soon.
48:17
>> Jordy, would you rather have $10 million or access to chat GPT in 2012?
48:24
>> This is such a funny question because it reminds me of the like, you know, uh, $10 million or dinner with Jay-Z or dinner with Drake or something. J it is.
48:34
>> But in this case, in this case, we were talking about this off air, and if you had chat GBT 10 years ago, you could make hundreds of millions of dollars in so many in so many silly ways, right?
48:44
It'd be like I'd be like, same day essays for college students.
48:47
You need an essay, you got something due, great, we got one.
48:51
If you were the only person [clears throat] no and Ben was saying uh you know like even even on the image gen video side it's like I'll generate any asset that you want. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
49:03
Commercials that I mean that would be crazy.
49:05
People would be like how did you do this in a day?
49:09
Even even just like even if you don't have codeex but you just have chatbt you can probably uh you can probably piece together so much software that then you could go sell as an actual company.
49:19
There's a million different ways.
49:19
really funny because it sounds it sounds like such a silly question, but then when you actually it's it's remarkable.
49:27
>> I would build a very very thin rapper [laughter] and just absolutely >> I mean that's one that if you just if you just actually go and sell this like futuristic technology, everyone will assume you're you're uh you're a time traveler.
49:39
Um >> we're doing pretty well. We're doing pretty well.
49:41
The the the snow is is hitting my my feet.
49:46
>> The computers are working. The stream is up. This is a miracle.
49:48
Uh we are [laughter] we are it is so cold that the computers weren't charging at at one point.
49:55
Uh we I I've I've heard uh you know if you're in the desert you need fans for your computer to keep it uh cool.
50:02
We probably need to get some of those but I never thought we'd have to get heat pads.
50:04
Oh, they have the team the production team has heat pads on the computer.
50:09
And we should be joined by Alex Karp in just a few minutes.
50:10
So thank you for tuning in.
50:12
Thank you to our sponsors for making this possible. And >> more news.
50:16
Trump administration set to suspend the Jones Act to tame oil prices.
50:22
>> Was this what uh this was Alec Alex Epstein was talking about? >> Yeah.
50:25
I mean, a lot of people have wanted this forever because the the Jones Act obviously has had some unnecessary uh or or unintentional consequences, right?
50:35
>> Sounds really good on paper, but difficult.
50:38
We're getting it in and not the way that >> people would have expected. >> Yeah.
50:43
Uh Gwart says, "Why don't they just tokenize the oil in the Middle East and transport it across permissionless financial rails, thereby avoiding the straight of horm? >> Here's your oil NFT.
50:54
Here's your Here's your gasoline.
50:57
>> Here's something we need to figure out.
50:59
uh helium uh helium exposure.
50:59
Qatar's shutdown of liqufied natural gas production has shaken about a third of global helium taken about a third of global helium production offline affecting chip makers who rely on helium for semiconductor manufacturing. Mhm.
51:15
>> Helium has no viable substitute in the chip process and no other source can immediately replace Qatar's supply.
51:20
With helium containers already filled before the world before the war, remaining stranded if the disruption persists, helium shortages could force chip makers to depprioritize lower margin product lines, reinforcing the existing allocation towards AI memory and deepening an already severe memory shortage.
51:40
So, >> find me the Alex of Helium today.
51:41
Find me the Scott Nolan of Helium.
51:44
There's got to be someone out there who's been building a startup around Helium.
51:48
I actually did talk to someone.
51:51
I don't know that I should share uh all the details, but they were looking at a startup that was going to buy a pretty significant um like, you know, helium mine or something like that.
52:03
And they they had a whole business plan for it.
52:06
And I think it uh this was years and years ago, but it was a fascinating industry.
52:10
Uh I I dug into it for like you know about an hour with this this friend of the show.
52:14
Um uh lots to learn more about uh uh rare elements and minerals and all the different impacts that the recent news cycle has on um all aspects of the economy.
52:26
Um hopefully an OddLotss episode on helium soon.
52:28
That that would be that would certainly be welcome.
52:33
>> Uh in Philly, 600 tubs of French dip mysteriously showed up at several restaurants. Is this real?
52:40
>> And Brooks says, "Yeah, it's in the Philly Inquirer."
52:43
>> Brook says, "Local back. It's starting. >> It's starting. Who knows? It's very ominous." What? What? What dip? French dip. Is that like sour cream?
52:50
And you >> No, with the sandwiches, right?
52:54
>> French dip, >> isn't it?
52:56
>> Oh, well, French dip is a sandwich, but is it also a topping?
52:58
>> I know, but it's it's a But it's the >> You dip the sandwich in it. The au. Okay. Okay, I'm getting it.
53:04
Sue Hail says the run on inference capacity is coming. You have been warned. >> Inference capacity.
53:11
I mean, we've seen that with claw going down.
53:12
The the the GPUs are on fire over on over in OpenAI with the codeex team. Tibo resetting limits.
53:20
Someone made a button that that a website that's just have the codeex limits been reset and you can just go to this website.
53:27
It's one of these like one oneoff vibe coded pages and if resets them, you can go and check your codecs.
53:34
Sam Hogan says, "Real GPU shortage has never been tried."
53:38
>> Yeah, we could be we could be getting close. There's a lot of demand.
53:40
Uh especially if Nvidia is starting to keep the chips.
53:44
T this is huge news for Tyler.
53:45
He's been pitching Jensen on keeping the chips for himself and building an AI model or an open source model.
53:51
And that was the that was the big news.
53:53
What was the total headline figure?
53:55
Something $26 billion over five years investing in open-source LLM development. Something like that. It was a big number. 26. Big number. >> Big number.
54:04
Not the biggest number we've ever heard. >> Another big number.
54:06
Netflix is paying uh 600 million for Ben Affleck's company.
54:12
This was reported uh earlier in the week that they were acquiring it, but there was no number.
54:16
600 is a lot bigger than what I imagined.
54:19
I was looking at it as like a you know, hey, this would be a nice soft landing for uh this film company, but pretty significant outcome.
54:29
>> Yeah, 600's big number.
54:29
Uh it'll be very interesting to see what Netflix does with that.
54:34
We tracked a little bit of the there's a new Calry market up on uh which Hollywood studio, which traditional Hollywood studio, big Hollywood studio will release a fully AI generated uh film or scripted series by 2027.
54:50
And I think Netflix was in the lead, but just barely.
54:52
It's so early, so we'll see where all of that goes.
54:56
>> Redbird is the big backer of Inner Positive.
55:00
Oh, which Redbird is also Capital. >> Yeah.
55:03
Big backer of the of the Warner Brothers deal.
55:06
>> Are they an investment bank or investment firm as well? They do both.
55:10
They take positions and an advisory, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Exciting.
55:13
Well, we should be joined by Alex Karp in just a minute.
55:18
Uh, anything else in the timeline worth >> I thought this was interesting.
55:20
>> I thought this was interesting. uh an one of uh at least Anthropic's only marketing growth person did an interview >> and uh extremely impressive uh what what he was able to handle on his own obviously using the tools uh to their
55:36
fullest extent but [snorts] >> a lot of people thought it was funny because it's like hey you're you probably like growing that fast you could probably add more people >> good growth people are hard to find [laughter] they are you know it is it is difficult ult. Um, but yeah, it would be
55:51
Um, but yeah, it would be interesting.
55:54
>> Got to talk about Curser.
55:55
>> What's going on with Curser?
55:56
>> Curser is having what sound like early talks uh to raise more money at somewhere around 50.
56:04
>> I sawion post that was maybe 60.
56:04
I mean, it's just a massive upound. What was the last round? 18 or 20? >> 30. Okay.
56:12
>> So, nice little step up.
56:12
Uh, a lot of lot of doom and gloom on the timeline around cursor.
56:16
We were debating this yesterday.
56:17
Um fa fascinating just how big the market is where adoption sits >> but the reporting says they're growing at 25% month over month.
56:27
>> Incredible to and at that scale two billion ARR something like that. >> Yeah.
56:31
And I just think we keep getting these data points that show that the world is much bigger than whatever people are saying on X on any given day. >> Yep. Right. Yep. Yep. Yep.
56:40
Uh it's uh [snorts] yeah it's easy to read into uh Kyle Russell's post about like his team which is truly like the cutting edge most you know most online group of folks shifting over and and shifting away from from cursor but uh there are still probably uh applications where it makes a ton of sense and a bunch of companies that are happy with the product and continuing to pay continuing to grow.
57:05
And then there's also that interesting thesis about maybe there's a uh a world where they act as a uh like a model router in some ways um and are and are piping different services in.
57:14
Who knows what the margins look like in the in the limit, but uh you know certainly certainly could could uh continue to grow.
57:24
What else is in the timeline while we wait for Alex Karp to join TVN Live?
57:29
>> I mean the big news is Taco Bell is adding a skincare item to its men menu.
57:34
Mountain Dew Baja Blast under eye patches are going to be infused with caffeine and citrus.
57:40
>> That's essential if you're in a Code Red.
57:42
>> If you're in a Code Red, get the Baja Blast under. It's under eye shadow.
57:44
I don't even know what that is.
57:49
>> But you can get it at Taco Bell on the menu at any Taco Bell.
57:51
Is this like some limited drop?
57:53
Is this some viral stunt? Is this real? I don't know. Have to check it out.
57:59
>> Dean Ball is >> Oh yeah, Dean Ball's going back and forth with Emil Michael. That's right.
58:04
Uh they're they're they're trading blows about what does it mean to have a constitution?
58:07
Should the who should be uh who should write that?
58:09
Who should give the models their personality?
58:11
Uh and uh I mean we'll talk more about this tomorrow, but Darcesh Patel has a great post summarizing a lot of his thoughts working through all the different philosophies of when the government should be in charge, when different public companies should be in charge.
58:26
Um Dean Ball's main point is that uh you know maybe constitution wasn't the right term or maybe it's a charged term or a loaded term that people read into but uh Dean Ball's point is that uh there is no way to train an LLM that doesn't have a personality.
58:42
Even if it's the most robotic personality, that's still a personality.
58:45
Well, we are joined by Alex Karp. Welcome to the show.
58:47
Thank you so much for taking the time.
58:51
>> You guys with or without hat?
58:53
>> Uh whatever is comfortable for you. You can do hat. >> It's cold out here. Keep your hat on.
58:55
I feel like this is an average day for you.
58:58
You're always out skiing.
58:58
You're >> We should have done that.
59:00
Yeah, we need to get We're close to getting skis.
59:03
Look, >> we Well, you know, we were supposed to do something physical.
59:06
>> It's starting to stick.
59:07
>> It's starting to stick. Oh, I like this.
59:09
But now I feel like a newscaster. I feel important. >> This is good. >> You're like 8t tall.
59:13
People don't realize that.
59:16
>> He's not standing up because it would be like he's like counter for all of us.
59:21
[laughter] >> He's like 8 foot.
59:23
>> Last time we talked to you, I think you were doing four minutes on the dead hang. What's it up to now? >> 50 55 >> 505.
59:28
What about in the cold though?
59:30
That's going to >> No, sorry.
59:31
We need to have a special minute for that. 50.
59:32
For those of you who haven't done a dead hang, first of all, go do it. >> Why is it important?
59:39
>> Um, well, there there are very few things that are proxy indicators that are accurate for health.
59:42
It's like dead hang, farmers walk, body weight, and V2 are the three ones that count. >> Okay.
59:49
>> I don't think anyone really >> one rep match bench bench press. That's all I focus on. >> Okay.
59:52
Well, you know, it's like >> I feel like I feel like as long as I have a really impressive [snorts] bench press, I'll [clears throat] I'll live a short but glorious life. I don't know.
1:00:00
Did they say something about that?
1:00:02
>> Who want to live a long glorious life when you can live a glorious short life?
1:00:06
>> Yeah, I think that's what they tell you before [laughter] they give you a bad salary or something like that.
1:00:09
I think I think it's like Yeah.
1:00:12
Or it's like, yeah, my social life is so great.
1:00:13
I only have a bot, but I enjoy it. Kind of logic. No.
1:00:17
Um, but no, it's um >> dead hang is important.
1:00:21
>> Dead hanging is crucial. Okay.
1:00:21
And you really need to go work on it.
1:00:23
Especially anyone watching your podcast. >> Yes.
1:00:27
>> Is likely to outperform. >> Yeah.
1:00:30
>> You want to have some, you know, you want to be able to do something with that outperformance. >> Like Yeah.
1:00:35
Well, the dead hang may be a proxy indicator for other things you could do with your outperformance, you know, and you know, not everyone is Yeah.
1:00:42
Not everyone is like 6' n like you may not need a dead hang, but the rest of us >> Well, the I can cheat because most of the I just stand on the floor. >> Yeah. That's right. Yeah.
1:00:52
>> And I can hold forever forever as long as I can. That's right. That's right.
1:00:55
>> Um but but when you're not dead hanging, uh what should people be doing with the new coding agents?
1:00:59
How important is it to learn to code?
1:01:01
How important is it to >> look there there are two that everybody's worried about like their future.
1:01:06
But there are basically two ways to know you have a future.
1:01:08
One, you have some vocational training. Okay.
1:01:12
>> So it's like or two, you're neurode divergent.
1:01:14
And and I when I say neurode divergent, I mean broadly defined.
1:01:16
Like >> you guys are sitting here.
1:01:19
You could have had a corporate tool job. Yeah.
1:01:22
>> You could have been like I don't want to pick on Goldman, [laughter] but like just say, you know, like a job there. They turned me down. >> Well, yeah. I did work at whatever.
1:01:30
[laughter] You could you could had a job where you're like it's like Yeah.
1:01:34
No, actually maybe they didn't know the right way to test. Yeah. >> Like it's like Yeah.
1:01:38
They were like like you know, whatever.
1:01:39
I'm not picking on one or the other.
1:01:41
I'm just saying you you you know the like you are probably here.
1:01:46
you think you're here because D, but it's actually you probably wouldn't have been able to do that cuz there's like it's the same thing as sit down in class and learn some >> like and you just regurgitate it like >> that's not a valuable thing >> if you are actually have insights into anything and and you have real technical expertise. >> Yeah.
1:02:05
>> Like you know you can look at a company but you actually can look at it because you know something about how these things work or something about how clients work.
1:02:10
you know, then all the other stuff that used to be precious, like being able to do low-end coding, being able to do low-end luring, being able to do low-end reading and writing.
1:02:21
I mean, got this is like I feel like Odin came down and was like, I'm going to make the world just right for a dyslexic.
1:02:27
It's like it's like, yeah, Odin has come down from or Locky has come down and said, you know what, Karp, you suffered so much as a kid. Yeah.
1:02:35
>> I'm just going to make the whole world everyone else can suffer. I don't want that.
1:02:38
It's like now, but it's really an inversion.
1:02:40
Like everybody with like the normal shape skills are dyslexics cuz like >> the meaning the thing they can do that used to be valuable is not so valuable.
1:02:50
The thing that they need to learn to do is like be more of an artist, look at things from a different direction, be able to build something unique. >> Mhm.
1:02:57
>> Mhm. I like and you see this on the battlefield like one of the most underappreciated things about fighting a war which is the I mean there are basic core things civilizations do like build technology for war >> is every society fights differently every component of the society fights
1:03:13
differently and when like American as allies we do not even approach these problems in the same way what it makes America lethal more so than any currently country is like a combination of obviously the technology which we're super interested in and and and believe
1:03:27
are paying a huge part in um but it's like 20 years of like operators figuring out what worked what not what worked in a manual like what worked in reality also even selection if you look at the selection of people like you meet like tier one operators >> they don't look anything like what
1:03:46
people would think it's not like the movies they're like these like these they're like this big and like you know it's like because we haveing >> yeah we have we have we have specialized ways of doing that all that is crazy valuable as a proxy indicator. People who are
1:03:59
People who are getting their news from you are just likely to massively outperform.
1:04:03
People are getting their news from something that's a regurgitation of you got to vote for one party or the other.
1:04:10
>> Um >> and then the the real problem we have in society is not your listeners or pounders customers or our partners.
1:04:15
It's like well what happens to everyone else?
1:04:20
Are they going to lynch us?
1:04:21
>> Cuz like that's the real problem.
1:04:21
>> Cuz like that's the real problem. like these products like what we're building like our our our agents mean that like the most I mean the most powerful people in the Democratic party are highly educated female voters and these technologies like they love they I mean like yeah I actually get along with all these people in private and there's a
1:04:40
public dispute but like largely I've talked to Dar over and over again it's like yeah you love one company because they they're not proTrump that company's taking your job >> how are you going to feel about that company when you find out you have no job and What what what do you think the Republican part is going to do to products that do not support our military? What do you think the
1:04:57
What do you think the Democratic part is going to do to products, even if you're voting for them, that are taking away the jobs of every one of your constituents and saying, "Oh, people are going to love you so much and you're going to be poor."
1:05:07
>> By the way, we love you so much, we're going to give you a little handout once a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:05:12
So, apply that to the the SAS apocalypse narrative, the enterprise SAS.
1:05:16
There's an idea that uh the first jobs that will be taken might be the enterprise software products that exist, haven't really innovated, have locked in, and they're going to be replatformed.
1:05:28
>> If you that the the thing that these technologies do is they also make it harder to lie about this is what part of the political problem.
1:05:34
If something's not creating value or something's not working or there's corruption, you can't lie about it.
1:05:40
M >> and nobody believes that all software companies actually create value.
1:05:45
I mean the famous thing that we all learned was that we rejected that you were learned and people taught you is like your software company is supposed to give the client the feeling they're getting laid while they're getting >> Yeah.
1:05:58
>> Yeah. Now if that's how your products actually are, >> you are now it's you are going to get like and this is going to happen so quickly and the simple test for people who are looking at this is >> does this product or in our case we were never pure software we're actually like
1:06:15
a hybrid of like humans FDEES uh augmented humans so AI FDES and then orchestration and then >> and essentially what we would call primitives like taking the tribal knowledge of institution coding it into logic and then using that to be extended in LMS. Okay, but we don't have to
1:06:31
Okay, but we don't have to explain that to our clients, you know.
1:06:35
>> So, so, so there's there was always this, oh, is Palunteer a consulting firm? Is it all just people?
1:06:39
Is there any real software?
1:06:40
I feel like that narrative went away.
1:06:43
>> Oh, and they they couldn't invest in us because we were a service company.
1:06:46
And now now it's like and now >> but but is is is actually having that service better in the future?
1:06:53
>> No, no, it's not better. It's >> underrated. It's crucial. It's crucial.
1:06:57
Like all these places that made fun of us, they're running around and trying to get FD.
1:07:01
Of course, getting an FDA is like, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's not as easy as it sounds because you have to know how to manage it, where to put the person, how to extract value.
1:07:09
And then you need all these products that augment the FD. What are those products?
1:07:15
Ontology, Foundry, FDI, AI things that we've built.
1:07:20
>> What we being able >> So, so the value of the business is not a monolithic codebase that never changes. It is the people.
1:07:25
It is the deployment is the relationships.
1:07:27
Is that how you're thinking about the business these days?
1:07:30
>> Well, actually the way I I'm telling you like when you walk around here >> Yeah.
1:07:34
>> they only care they don't care about any of that.
1:07:36
>> What they care about is you transformed my business in in 3 months.
1:07:38
It would have taken 3 years and I would never have happened.
1:07:43
>> That's what they care about.
1:07:43
Now then there's a question of how do you do that?
1:07:45
[clears throat] And that is a that is a concatenate. It's artistry.
1:07:48
It's like >> select client, select where you would start, select ways in which and innovate in ways they would not accept, innovate in places they do not understand you should innovate.
1:07:59
Uh learn to manage these very complex.
1:08:01
By the way, it's not just culturally complex. It's tribal knowledge.
1:08:05
And much of that tribal knowledge is in rules that they have to apply because there are all sorts of rules about manufacturing, hospitals, war.
1:08:14
Um rules that are applied that they're not saying they apply.
1:08:16
Laws like all sorts of regulator regulatory things on top of all that all that has to happen very rapidly.
1:08:24
So you would need and like without going into details like I'm in the middle of like every single one of these discussions in almost every breakdown it's like people do not understand how institutions work.
1:08:34
They don't understand how the software would work.
1:08:37
They don't know how the LLM would work.
1:08:39
They don't have the product that would actually work in that environment.
1:08:42
And they still at the end of the day are not saying we're going to charge on value. >> Okay.
1:08:46
How do institutions work?
1:08:46
Why is it that we get these genius models that are 160 IQ?
1:08:51
They can solve incredible math and they're not just like everywhere all the time. What is slowing down?
1:08:58
>> I mean, the simple version is they're 160 against a test. Yeah.
1:09:02
>> But the test isn't it's a concatenation.
1:09:04
The simple math would be it's 160 on one test, but you've got to pass differentiated tests over a long period of time.
1:09:11
So, it's a thousand tests.
1:09:11
So, de facto by the 50th step, it's zero IQ.
1:09:16
But then there's also there's also Yeah.
1:09:18
I mean it's like it's it's it's insane.
1:09:20
Like no I love when I hear about all this is going to replace and then I go to our clients and they're like could we have more?
1:09:25
We don't even have the capacity.
1:09:27
Like it's like it's a surreal thing like would you guys like to be FDs cuz we need some help.
1:09:31
[laughter] >> If you're in the audience completely seriously and you're aligned broadly speaking with America is a great country.
1:09:40
You don't have to agree about anything else and you're out there and you're technical or just smart apply. We need you. >> Okay.
1:09:46
America is a great country. Put aside Democrat. Put aside Republican.
1:09:48
Is democracy the correct formulation to decide the future of AI?
1:09:54
Should the American people be voting to decide should that be handled by private companies? >> No. America.
1:10:02
Well, it depends like like Yeah. Great.
1:10:05
So, in the war fighting context, >> the Department of War has to be the arbiter of what gets deployed.
1:10:12
But as a citizen, I vote for the Department of Warcraft. >> Exactly. Yeah. No. Okay.
1:10:16
But but I'm just saying no.
1:10:18
So I I want to split domestic and and foreign because like we in this country have god-given rights literally given to us by a higher being.
1:10:27
There's a right of free expression which >> we're exercising all the time and is very important to us.
1:10:31
Uh there's a second amendment which I exercise. I I shoot very well.
1:10:36
I would encourage you guys and other people to listening to avail yourself of the second amendment. Yes.
1:10:41
Uh it it was not it is there to protect ourselves in case the first amendment fails.
1:10:45
That's the reason it's there.
1:10:48
There's a a fourth amendment which is essentially we have a right to privacy. Okay. >> We have those rights. >> Mhm.
1:10:55
>> Adversaries trying to kill us in Iran do not have those rights.
1:10:59
>> And I don't believe I've never believed in extending our rights to foreign countries that are adversarial to us.
1:11:06
>> I don't even really believe I don't like you know in Germany where I lived half my life.
1:11:10
They don't have a first amendment.
1:11:12
>> They don't believe it.
1:11:12
And by the way, they've never believed in a First Amendment. They have other rights. That's great.
1:11:16
I'm not gonna dispute that.
1:11:17
But I want our rights here >> in this country.
1:11:20
Uh if you're going to tell the American people you're building what is clearly a dangerous technology, it's dangerous because it it will likely take your job, especially if you're white collar.
1:11:32
So >> if you're voting, you know, you're highly educated.
1:11:36
>> Have you have you flipped on that in the last like six months or so?
1:11:37
Because I think [clears throat] I think the last time we talked your general mindset was like high agency, highly productive people will be able to continue to leverage the tools to deliver value with an organization. >> Yeah.
1:11:53
I think if you're neurode divergent and high agency and you're highly educated, that's great.
1:11:56
But if you're not neurode divergent and you're like lawyer 14506, that's a problem.
1:12:04
>> Okay, but let me get to this and they're linked, but it's okay. on domestic stuff.
1:12:09
Uh I we have rights that are not subject to major majority rule like I the majority can vote against us having fourth amendment rights. I want that.
1:12:21
I want that litigated at the Supreme Court because I we are not our Constitution is not about majority.
1:12:27
It's actually about the rights of the minority and it's our right all I bet you the three of us have opinions that are very much in the minority >> that we want to be able to say at least in the privacy of our own home, right?
1:12:38
And so so that there are real issues.
1:12:41
I'm super sympathetic with >> restrictions around the use of these products in a domestic context.
1:12:45
Even though it's funny, people out there, every conspiracy theorist thinks, "Yeah, this is insane. I'm the only one.
1:12:53
Conspiracy theorists, you may hate this, but there's one person protecting your right to be a conspiracy theorist that actually has a seat at the table, and that person is me.
1:13:01
>> You may not [laughter] you may not want to hear that truth, but it's it is true."
1:13:05
And maybe do a little more reading before you pontificate on your absurd and obviously illformed and many times stupid opinions. Okay?
1:13:11
So, because like you're attacking the person who's protecting you, idiot.
1:13:16
Uh, [laughter] it's like so stupid.
1:13:18
Do do use one of the bots to correct your opinion.
1:13:24
It's like I'm being attacked online now. It's like Dr.
1:13:27
Karp is anti-progressive versus I progressive my whole life.
1:13:29
I'm the only just telling you the truth.
1:13:31
These things are going to take your job. Okay.
1:13:33
So then, >> but in the warf fighting context, >> and it's the primary justification for these procs has to be it's it's there are two relevant powers now. US and China.
1:13:42
This is a half have half have not world.
1:13:45
It's going to be either us or them basically deciding the world order because like these other countries and maybe India will will get involved.
1:13:54
Maybe the Arab non-Arab middle east but currently on the trajectory we're on now there are two places where these things are being developed and deployed. It's us or them.
1:14:01
And I'm not particularly you know I'm not I'm not out to hurt China.
1:14:05
I'm just out to I think we should win.
1:14:07
>> I'm not trying to hurt them.
1:14:07
And I in that context you can't say we're not going to do X Y and Z.
1:14:12
I mean I give you examples but like >> there are data sets that are publicly available in the US market that should I don't think should be used against you and me >> in a law law enforcement context more than with the help of say AI agents and ontology. >> Yeah.
1:14:30
>> But if you don't use it on the battlefield you obviously Iran's going to use them.
1:14:34
You don't think they can go online and buy those products? Yeah.
1:14:35
And and by the way, without going into somewhat classified data, those things are in combination with other things lethal.
1:14:42
Like a lot of people who want to hurt America on the battlefield end up dead because of our ability to aggregate and then figure out what's going on in the battlefield before they can figure out what we're doing.
1:14:53
>> And so like I'm very much in favor of it for moral reasons, but I'm also in favor of is like I don't know how else you explain this to the American people.
1:14:59
We're we're going to take your job.
1:15:01
we're gonna take away, you're gonna eviscerate your ability to to to have money and power, but that we're not going to defend you on the battlefield just seems like, >> yeah, well, they're gonna, you know, what's actually gonna happen?
1:15:12
>> That nobody believes me in tech, but there's going to be a movement in this country that gets very strong very quickly to nationalize these things.
1:15:18
First, it's going to be take away all our money.
1:15:20
The bill billionaires are evil.
1:15:21
You may not have heard that. Super evil.
1:15:23
And if you take away their money, it'll help poor people.
1:15:25
That's really important to understand.
1:15:27
making rich people miserable is the only way to help poor people. That's obviously true.
1:15:30
So once you've learned that, the next thing you're going to learn is we have to nationalize a tech.
1:15:36
>> They're going to they're going to quote you on that.
1:15:38
>> Well, it's like >> they quoted you on >> So So I mean it sounds like you're you're you're closer to Daario on, you know, potentially 50% of early stage white collar job loss.
1:15:47
Like you're you're you're aware that there's a risk at least ability. You're aware of it.
1:15:54
What do you see as the solution?
1:15:56
Um well first we just have to I mean well I mean the obvious thing is okay we can't have any migration here like how are we going to create more jobs like it's like you have to what the problem in fairness not that people want to be in the business of being fair to policy leaders but >> the we are dealing with technologies that will determine the policy decisions.
1:16:15
So you can't just pretend they're not happening.
1:16:17
Like step one is like >> we it's going to be hard but possible to make this society work given that transforming it requires these technology in some cases but it's like a long trip and we're here in I'm the only one who likes this weather is great weather. I brought it for you.
1:16:42
brought it for you. It's uh uh but um they're here because they've seen their business being transformed and this is happening in America more than so we have to win those battles but the costs are going to be very high and so you have to work back from okay the costs are going to be very high >> we we can't put oil on the fire it's like you know it's like well getting
1:17:02
jobs for all Americans is going to be hard and people maybe who become Americans but >> it's like you have to have different policies around migration you have to different policies around how we train people like currently if you're a young kid in high school and you're neurode divergent they're literally tra chaining you into your chair and feeding you medication so you can have skills that are not valuable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:17:22
>> Like it's so it's like and then we'll probably over time have to have like a discussion of like yeah if you go into this career >> you're not going to have a job >> like a really honest discussion about that.
1:17:34
These are the places where you will likely have a job. >> Mhm. And yeah, >> help me.
1:17:39
>> What uh you know, it seems like we as a country will probably head down a more European path where it is becomes very very difficult or near impossible to let people go.
1:17:51
Do you think that's correct?
1:17:55
>> In Germany, in Germany, it's much harder to to lay someone.
1:17:59
>> And that does impact I mean, that does impact the the growth of of companies. >> Mhm.
1:18:05
But I think many Germans would argue that's probably >> yeah, you know, Germany's I mean I won't I'll answer your question.
1:18:10
Germany's interesting place.
1:18:12
I did this thing in German where I basically told the truth which you're not allowed to do in Germany.
1:18:17
It was like you know it's kind of really bad situation and the economy sucks.
1:18:22
The migration thing is a complete disaster and the energy situation is like compounds everything.
1:18:27
And I got thousands of people literally saying thank god someone told the truth.
1:18:32
Um, and there are a lot of people like you guys, young people building things that feel hampered and and and are correct to feel hampered.
1:18:41
I I think the American version, if we're not careful, is not going to be the German version.
1:18:45
I think it's going to be hang the rich.
1:18:48
>> I It's like I think it's going to be not protect everybody else.
1:18:50
It's going to be like, oh, look, this is too dangerous and we're going to hang the rich, but not really help the poor.
1:18:55
And in fairness to the German version, like you know, German like health insurance, insurance, all that stuff, it works.
1:19:03
Yeah, >> like I was I was poor in Germany for like a decade and like I had I had the best life on the planet.
1:19:07
Like it was like being poor in Germany is like being better than being rich here in some days.
1:19:14
>> So basically policies that lift the floor, re-education, training, >> you're so you want to do what we could do here. Yeah.
1:19:21
>> We the things we could adopt from Germany are Germany has three high schools. Yeah. Two are vocational. >> Sure.
1:19:27
>> One is academic, >> better education, >> better programmatic vocational. Vocational.
1:19:31
It also has a bad like a weird vibe here.
1:19:34
Like vocational training in Germany is very technical.
1:19:38
Like the people building the cars at BMW or even in the French version Airbus like very complicated jobs.
1:19:43
They didn't go to college.
1:19:44
They went to a very very high-end high school and they come out without any debt.
1:19:49
And that stuff is really valuable.
1:19:50
So if you want you you have to completely transform our educational system and and go very young into like training people to do things.
1:19:59
You also need to change our testing system like different forms of intelligence.
1:20:02
All of our tests are built around things that were valuable in the industrial revolution.
1:20:06
It's like you want to pull out all the dyslexics, all the neurode divergence.
1:20:09
Everybody who can't sit or needs to build or wants to build have to go into a a separate slot of like, yeah, we should have gotten you before you got turned down at Coleman and like said this is like that's a waste of your time.
1:20:20
You could be building something important.
1:20:23
>> And uh >> what else goes would be a part of the good outcome?
1:20:26
Well, the the the most important part of a good outcome is we show our adversaries you can't with us and we're the best.
1:20:33
We have the best military in the world.
1:20:35
Hope I believe we're doing that right now.
1:20:37
On the good outcome side, we yeah, we go around and then on the commercial side, we go to all these high infrastructure, you know, hospitals, manufacturing, all these things, complicated infrastructure, and we AI enhanced all of them.
1:20:50
So, the products are legitimately the best in the world.
1:20:53
And we rebuild manufacturing in this country.
1:20:55
Like a big problem for us, including on the battlefield, is our manufacturing just is not up to where we have to be.
1:21:00
And that, by the way, requires reskilling uh scaling humans.
1:21:06
And we're doing this all over the place.
1:21:07
I mean, the guy writing a lot of the scripts for the target.
1:21:09
These people, they're like high school college grads.
1:21:12
The people building batteries and all these things using our products.
1:21:14
These are high school college grads.
1:21:15
There's a lot of opportunity there.
1:21:17
But you know, one of the things I told the Germans and I would say to us is we I was like, you know, Germany, you have to call it a crisis.
1:21:24
We do need like this is a crisis moment.
1:21:27
America is tomorrow is not going to look like it looked at all or we're going to have radicalism on right or left.
1:21:34
The the problem, the danger is if we don't do these reforms, you are going to get the pitchforks because that then the only solution people are going to have is well, you know, let's go after the unlikable rich people in tech, especially AI tech.
1:21:45
especially AI tech. And then but but then what can work is yeah close the borders keep them closed start doing huge vocational efforts change how we test aptitude like so we have an accurate diagnostic of where you could be slotted uh be ruthless in like you know it's like in in certain find out
1:22:04
new ways to test and do ruthless testing and slotting and then also go around to universities and just I mean you know how when you like you want to smoke a cigarette it's like this this cigarette may be harmful health maybe we should be putting that in universities this university. This this university is
1:22:16
This this university is harmful for your investment.
1:22:18
You know, I'm libertarian.
1:22:20
You want to go to university.
1:22:22
>> Student debt may be harmful to your future financial and your personal life.
1:22:27
Explain to someone you got a million dollars in debt.
1:22:28
A million dollars in debt.
1:22:31
I mean, maybe if you're 69 and you [laughter] you can get away with that, but the rest of us have to provide. >> That's funny.
1:22:37
Uh uh help me square this idea.
1:22:39
You you were you were talking earlier today about uh people misunderstanding your business and >> Yeah.
1:22:45
What's it like to read about your business?
1:22:48
>> Oh, I mean, first of all, it's I mean, the part I I I hate it, but then the part I love is and it's like you're valuable.
1:22:58
Your your value is pretty directly con uh uh convergent with people's inability to understand what you're doing. >> Yeah.
1:23:05
>> So, it's like it's like all these technologies are potentially commodifying everything. Yeah. >> Okay.
1:23:10
So if you are a business that is you know not services not product but both but also works on tribal knowledge on data and every single business you make is individual and so yeah that's a crazy valuable business.
1:23:24
>> That's true in a lot of industries where if the broader business community doesn't understand your business, you might have a short report but you'll have a way less competition because people aren't copying you because they don't understand.
1:23:35
don't understand. impossible to copy certain like like and and and we we neglect this like you know um >> almost like you even see it culturally like luxury products dominated by the French watches dominated by the Swiss currently certain kinds of war fighting dominated by America and it's like it's
1:23:50
it's very hard for people to eviscerate these cultural advantages and our products augment that which makes it >> uh you know augments the the differentiated specific over the generalizable and and and that's where literally all the value is going to go and it's going to be like a waterfall. And that that's the problem with a lot
1:24:06
And that that's the problem with a lot of software companies.
1:24:08
It's like it's like product ABC.
1:24:09
But um but but then when you read it, it's like like one of the more depressing things that you guys probably confront, but it's like a market market huge market opportunity for you.
1:24:20
It's like where are the experts?
1:24:22
Like it's like, you know, it's like there's it's like, you know, you you hope and pray.
1:24:26
Like I'll tell you the funniest thing about my life now and people internally know almost every day I'm like, "Wait a minute.
1:24:31
I'm the adult in the room here.
1:24:34
[laughter] >> It's like everywhere I go, it's like it's like wait a minute.
1:24:38
I like I and it's like there it it's like and and it's so it's it's surreal when you read about these things but and it's it used to really frustrate me but now I kind of just think well like I can't believe we're still viewed as crazy.
1:24:51
It's like everything we're doing is the only thing that's working.
1:24:54
I mean like I don't want to like spend a lot of time on our baller accential essentially baller numbers from last year but it's like you know clearly our works.
1:25:04
Clearly nothing is working at that level.
1:25:08
And you would think they would take like I don't know 10 minutes to think, okay, well the thing I believed and I thought would work didn't work at all.
1:25:15
This thing I thought was insane is has like a rule of 127 when like no one like 40 is considered like and like but they don't and and then and I Yeah, but it's sometimes frustrating honestly.
1:25:26
And the hard part actually is I kind of view it as a feature.
1:25:32
>> Uh internally we get these brighteyed kids. So it's so funny.
1:25:35
I mean the one get the best people in the world >> but you know just like I was probably at 21. They're very romantic.
1:25:41
It's like but why does the adult >> not understand this?
1:25:45
[laughter] It's like but but but the adult expert tells me it's like I don't know when you guys had to drop the shoe moment when you realized that like the adults are like you know on crack or something [laughter] >> like it's okay. >> Uh last question.
1:26:01
>> Would you rather have $10 million or access to Chachi PT in 2012?
1:26:03
If it's a viral question that's going viral right now, [laughter] >> I have to choose one or the other.
1:26:11
Like I mean, okay, I'm just >> I don't think he needs I don't have to answer.
1:26:16
I don't think he needs >> Can I Can I have my social life in grad school?
1:26:21
>> Oh, [laughter] there we go. Okay.
1:26:21
So, that's on your >> new pick.
1:26:24
>> We just have to ask, you know, it's like great.
1:26:26
I got to take something I valued. >> Okay. Yeah.
1:26:29
The most valuable thing, your social life and grad school.
1:26:31
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come with us. It's fantastic. We'll talk to you soon.
1:26:36
And that's our show today, folks.
1:26:38
Thank you so much for tuning in to TBPN today.
1:26:40
We will be back in the TBNN Ultradome tomorrow at 11 a. m. Pacific.
1:26:44
>> You want to sign off with us? >> Oh, yeah. >> Point of the camera. >> Goodbye. >> Have a good one. Cheers.