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in great conversations there are two presences that are connecting to form one I'm trying to make some of their unconscious conscious maybe I'm going to start thinking about things differently and readjust the way my mental models
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work there are four million podcasts out there there's so many there's too many podcasts it's like no we are at the start of the printing press for audio the positivity is rubbing off on even me I mean my God you are you're like a charm it's about presence it's about
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connecting deeply with another human being to help them learn something about themselves the world would be a brighter place I believe if we connected more humans well hello everyone it's Jim O'Shaughnessy with yet another infinite
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Loops today we are going to do a meta uh episode because I have the one the only the young guy whose goal is to sell out which stadium are we going to sell out Danny for your live podcast Madison Square Garden Madison Square Gardens I
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love that goal Danny Miranda is my guest today he is an amazing young podcaster we're gonna steal all of his Secrets as I told him before we started to record uh because then I'm gonna beat him into the AI and have like one of those little
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earbuds and I'm gonna be like what would Danny ask in this particular instance and I'm gonna sound so smart and well prepared I am neither I am neither Daddy really wonderful to have you welcome thank you for having me as a listener of
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this podcast and a fan of you it is a true honor to be here so thank you for having me on the show so so let's start at the beginning uh this all started with you Tweeting people hey who wants to talk on the phone tell us the origin story
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yeah so it was July of 2020 and four months prior I was depressed out of my mind covet had just started and I didn't know what I was going to do with my life and over those four months months from March to July I felt like a new energy had come into me I was doing the things
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that were right I was meditating I was working out and I was feeling great and I was hanging out with my family every day who are all amazing awesome people and because of that I felt like I had excess to give and so because I had
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excess to give I wanted to share this energy with people who might be struggling or just people in general and so I tweeted out who wants to talk on the phone I had about 5 000 Twitter followers at the time and people started loving the phone calls and I started
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loving the phone calls and I was like this is the best thing ever like I get to share this energy people get to share it as well I get to learn about what's going on in their world and vice versa I can ask questions I gotta record this so
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then I started recording the phone calls and the phone calls are recorded phone calls basically just called a podcast in today's modern world and that's how the podcast started I love it so uh you know very bold I my guess is you got some fairly cringed
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people wanting to talk to you on the phone did you did you frame it uh in any particular way or was it literally just a tweet who wants to talk on the phone there was no framing there was no expectation I literally just wanted to learn and explore and and hear from
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people so I'm really intrigued who who were your first dozen like just give me you don't have to name them but what type of person was the one who jumped on that yeah I want to talk on the phone all different sorts of people like I I
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couldn't even begin to bucket them as a as a group because I remember like one guy was a personal trainer another guy was from Australia not like it was just such a wide breadth of people I would say like people who are interested in
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life and maybe that's because that's the energy that I was putting out over the four months I was tweeting and really like the two years prior to that that I had the same Twitter account so it was people who are interested in life who
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were trying to become the best versions of themselves and it was people who I was excited to learn from but it was no one like famous or well known of it was just like normal people and some people had struggles and some people were
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dealing with difficult things and they were asking me advice on how to get through it but it was just long phone calls with no agenda and I think people really appreciated that in a world where they were on zooms or people were expecting things from them I was just
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coming at it like I just want to talk I want to connect and I hope to maintain that same ethos today with the podcast and just with any interaction I have in the streets of Austin Texas and uh did a theme emerge I'm not saying
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in terms of like they were Tech workers or they were this or that but I you've already mentioned you know that this zest for living they they want to connect they want to you know that implies probably a positive outlook on on the future on what can happen
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obviously putting it into the context this was during the pandemic so like people couldn't do things the normal way uh do you think this would have worked if we didn't have the pandemic could you have done that absolutely yeah I mean I I imagine
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there's a lot of people who want would love to speak to me today and if I tweeted this out today post pandemic it's like there's a lot of people who would be loved to have a phone call as well as like this would work you know if
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if you just have a thousand Facebook friends or you have like 500 people you know on Instagram like I think this just works like humans want to connect and I think people are lonelier than ever so yeah I think I think it definitely would
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work and I think more people should attempt to put themselves out there in that way to reach out to a random stranger because Jim like for you when you talk to someone randomly and you have a great conversation with a cab driver or like uh somebody who gets you
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coffee or just like a person on the street don't you feel better like don't you feel like a connection like how does it feel for you yeah no I agree I I I uh my wife is often annoyed with me because I will uh go up and talk to people that you would
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prefer that I wasn't talking to isn't she a straight photographer though she is she is so she's got the visual aspect uh covered perfectly uh she's much better than that but she uh than me certainly she's amazing um and uh I I I do the get the story
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part we I I'm not meaning to imply that I have anything to do with her work I do not it guards that territory very closely but one of the things what I think she makes her such a great Street photographer is she's very contemplative
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she very much understands this idea like this this moment I'm capturing right will never exist again and so there's kind of a little magic to that whereas I I'm a bit more like you people just fascinate me and and like I mentioned that you know
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she sometimes gets upset with me like we're in Miami once and there was a guy who was heavily tattooed had all the biker Fair paraphernalia you know like literally he was a bouncer at what was obviously one of the hottest clubs in Miami and we're walking by and I'm like
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I notice he's smoking a vape and I'm like wow that this is years ago and I'm like wow that's really interesting so I walk up to him I say hey can I ask you about that vape and he's like yeah man and like we ended up having one of the
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greatest conversations in the world and why he was doing The Vape what do you think his wife wasn't having him still smoking cigarettes if he could vape and like we bitched and moaned about that for a while but it was really a great
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conversation and you know I learned a lot like from him because we started talking about others the things that I didn't know anything about right like I asked him what is it like to be a bouncer like what do you have to do does it get like
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how many times are you truly in danger and he was just like really eager to tell me all about that I often thought that would be it just like a great podcast right yes and it just goes to show like how devoid we are of human interaction and
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how you going first and letting that Curiosity speak through you to actually make the approach of like hey how's it going to me that's like an easy thing to do today but if I think about myself like four years ago it would be really
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difficult for me to just like go up to a stranger and ask them a question and maybe that's a product of age like getting a little bit older but maybe that's just a product of like doing the podcast and having so many of these conversations and just having such an
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openness to life and a love for myself and knowing that whatever is happening in that moment is what is supposed to happen and I just wish more people I saw more human interaction and connection and community and people just loving one
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another in the simplest way so I love that you did that and it makes me so happy to hear that my experience of connecting with a stranger is similar to yours yeah let's talk about that for a bit uh you've got already 300 I mean
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like your persistence and work ethic man like I am the laziest human on this planet and was talked in actually tricked in to this podcast um and and then I I kind of enjoyed it you know like Wily bastard you really pulled one over on me here because
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there's a lot of work thank God and full disclosure I don't do any of the really heavy lifting let's just be really honest about that I have an amazing team and like they also have to deal with my many many idiosyncrasies [Laughter] so uh we have some of the best
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researchers uh around so I don't have to do that heavy stuff but as you started let's take a look back look back to you know your first podcast your you just I'm maybe you're at 396 now God probably uh but what what are the biggest things that
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you've learned and and think about it that you're talking to somebody who has a podcast I.E me but who really knows nothing about podcasting and and you were trying to coach them up what what would you what would what were your greatest learnings from number one to
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number whatever you're on right now 396. yeah so I'll break it down into two separate stages from zero to 150 and from 150 to where we're currently at which is 397. and so I think that could be helpful for people from zero to 150 the biggest thing I was
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figuring out was like what's the appropriate amount of research to do to have an amazing conversation so for episode eight Ed Latimore comes in this is like the biggest guest that I've had on here over a hundred thousand Twitter followers I
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was like this is amazing this incredible it's an incredible guy you know what we're gonna have an amazing conversation I don't even need to prepare because he's so amazing I did that and it was not good like I genuinely felt in my heart like
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something was off then I do episode 61 with Ali abdall and episode 61 with Ali Abdallah was my biggest guest at the time over a million subscribers on YouTube just an incredible four so I'm like I gotta research the hell out of this guy I
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gotta know everything there is to know about him I researched so much that I didn't give enough time for presents and to be in the moment and it turned into again from my perspective an awful episode because of me Ollie was great and so looking at that those two I was
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like oh I I went too far in One Direction and then I went too far on the other so by episode 150 and you came on episode 167 I was figuring out what is the appropriate amount of research to do and how to navigate a conversation how to
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open up a conversation all those facets and then from 150 onwards uh I started to get more opportunities you come on my show everyone says oh this is legitimate show now like I Jim O'Shaughnessy this is this is a big deal now people start
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giving me opportunities and from 150 on I'm like I'm looking at this oh this guy wants to hire me this company wants to me to work for them oh I can do all this and I took it all because I'm 25 years old and I'm excited by life and I I'm so
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honored that people are thinking me but I need to focus at that time when it's working and people want me to work for them and help them in some combat keep doing what you're doing and I didn't do that and because of that I got off track
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and maybe some of the success that I'm having now is a result of focusing and really staying consistent if I'd done this earlier and double down when everyone wanted me I would be in this place quicker but that's okay that's part of the journey in learnings and and
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I'm grateful with how it happened but yeah that's kind of the progression I would say the research and the focus and that's what I've learned up to this point broadly speaking I'm covering more of the stuff in my course that's going
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to be out I'm sure when this episode is live art of interviewing but yeah that's kind of a brief overview of what I've learned give our listeners a sneak peek to the course of the art of listening uh give us some some great uh the poll
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quotes if you will that uh are going to be in the bigger font uh in your material absolutely so in that course some one thing that people really know me as is like doing research and going so heavy into the research what I wanted to break down for people
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is like how do I do that like what is the Practical steps I'm taking on Twitter how am I going through someone's Instagram how am I going through their YouTube channel what am I looking for in particular so then there's the research piece then
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there's like what am I doing before the interview right before this I was doing like an affirmations track I was listening to Ray Lewis's and I'm mentioning a bunch of different resources I do before the interview then during the interview how do I approach
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this with curiosity what what types of questions am I asking how am I going about it what am I thinking about what what type of Mind state am I in then after the interview how am I promoting this episode so all of that is kind of
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going to get covered and going to be in the course and I'm I'm really excited to get that out there because I feel like I've learned I've spent so much time listening to podcast Jim like an absurd amount maybe like thousands of hours like genuinely like thinking about
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podcasts I I've probably spent 10 000 hours in the past five years just thinking about podcasts doing podcasts I've you know 400 hours alone on the mic and it's like I gotta give this information to people because there's a lot a lot there when
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you were starting out what was the original goal you know to sell out uh uh Carnegie Madison Square Garden you know one of the big Halls here in in Manhattan uh and and or was it I'm gonna put myself out there people are gonna know who I am
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I'm learning in public my my proof of work is here all of that I'm going to leverage this into like a big opportunity which you just said you turned them all back yeah I mean for me when I started it was just I loved
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learning from people I loved exploring life and I love putting myself out there and I've been doing that since I was 13 years old and so I kind of knew I had this skill or understanding of the internet to navigate through it and connect with
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the right people and I knew I just hadn't given myself enough time to actually execute on that the goal of Matt is selling out Madison Square Garden only came about when I realized oh this is my thing the same I always want I looked at Kobe Bryant and I was
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like I wish I had a thing like Kobe I wish I had a thing that I could devote my life to and that I was obsessed with because I know I could do well it if I found the thing that I was actually that passionate about and for me that became
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podcasting and so when I realized that very quickly oh this is my thing this is what I want to be known for this is what I want to be good at this is what I want to explore then I said okay I'm gonna try to think about the biggest dream I can imagine
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that is in alignment with my heart I used to go to Madison Square Garden as a kid to watch the New York Knicks play and I was like let's make that the the North Star Envision because I can't even think about anything bigger than that
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and that will give me enough time to play this game for a long time and just fill me with joy if that would ever happen but it's not about selling out Madison Square Garden it's really just about continuing to podcast and learn from
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people as much as I humanly can but I I like that because it puts it into the you know I I think people who sit around on the couch and just dream about things and and don't take action against them or don't share them right that's just daydreaming in my opinion uh
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what I like about listening to this is you've made it a concrete thing that many people would say wow that is really absurd that that kid wants to sell out Madison Garden but at Madison Square Garden but like that's Jim Carrey used
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to write himself checks for a million or 10 million I can't remember what the number was and I I'm a huge believer in putting ideas out of paper because it puts them into the real world and and when you try to figure it out it gets sounding like really woo-woo and so if
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you you want to be careful but like so you've done that what has changed since you put that goal out there what what has changed in your behavior uh or the way you do do your podcasts I would say that it what it has done and I
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I put this out pretty early on I think it's given people something to Rally around and to be excited about and they people can see fans of the podcast and just people who are just following in my Orbit can see they can fit themselves into the dream
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one thing that Alex formosi has said that really has stuck with me is that if you are building a company you want your vision and dream to be so big because people need to find their way into that dream and they need to find their way into that vision and you
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would know better than anyone right like and I'm curious if that's true from your perspective but it's like think about somebody who's just their vision is very small working for that person is going to be really difficult if you have big
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Visions for yourself because you can't imagine yourself getting past that place so okay I I still want you to answer the question though I think which is you must have changed for example did you start looking into booking smaller venues for live podcast
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shows did you like start doing any of that and putting it into action so people have asked me to like host their book event right people are like Polina marinova pompliano bless her heart she she's come on the podcast
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a couple of times and maybe because she knows that I have this Vision to sell out Madison Square Garden she invited me to interview her in New York City in front of 100 or 200 people which was the coolest experience for me because I would attend these book signings as a
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kid and my mom would drive me and now she gets to attend it as me being the interviewer or keynote speaker I'm going to Chris Williamson's event where he's doing a 50-person small show he's gonna sell out big theaters in England in the
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UK and I'm gonna go to that event and I'm gonna be there and I'm gonna experience what it was like I did the same thing for my first million when they hosted something in in Austin and so I'm just like witnessing this and figuring out okay like could I see
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myself hosting an event like this how would I go about doing that and really just it's laying the foundations so yeah yeah I that that that is that's exactly what I was looking for because I know Chris really well and I know
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Paulina really well as well and what I hear you saying is all of a sudden because of that goal because you stated it these things unfolded that might not necessarily have happened right and and so I'm delighted to hear that right
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because it means that you are moving towards that goal I will publicly tell you today that if you do get Madison Square Gardens I will buy a ticket and I will be there I appreciate that thank you so much Jim I can't wait for you to be there in some
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capacity let Let's uh jump into research a bit um so you mentioned when when you took me through what you learned for the first uh toront of episodes and then the second and that you let the pendulum swing a little bit too far on both and
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then had to recalibrate which is great right uh that's why we make mistakes to learn things um but talk to me talk to me about your research process and and what you do that might be different than many the other popular podcasts out there I think I just do more work
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um like I I genuinely think that is the the differentiator because I'm not talented I'm not special in any way I'm just willing to do more because I know that if you're not inherently gifted in any any particular way which I don't feel
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like I am I need to compensate for that in some way and so the way I compensate for it is I will listen to the guest on five different episodes at least of other their appearances on other podcasts I will go through their Twitter and I'll be like all right what do they
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like talking about let me think about their life in their shoes and and where they are in their life what's going on how do they think about the world then I'll go through their Instagram and I'll go all the way back and I'll be like
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where were they when they started what types of pictures were they posting what were they thinking about when no one was paying attention to them and so I'm really trying to live in their shoes and I'm I'm thinking and feeling my body as
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this is going on and I'm like where am I moved where when did they say something that made me laugh when did they say something that made me think to myself oh wow I've never thought about the world in that way when do they say oh
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that's a great question I've never considered that like I'm thinking about all that and making notes of that and making notes of my favorite parts of all everything I just talked about and then I'm reflecting that back to them and when I do it usually lights
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people up it usually makes people ask themselves where did you find that are you kidding me like I didn't remember saying that and all of that goes to really just show them appreciation and love so that's kind of the process
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overview and what I'm doing yeah it sounds like uh you are a big fan of Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people uh I was just talking about that with my team on another call and I didn't I actively didn't read that book for 20 years
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because it had a Cheesy title in my opinion and so many people recommended it to me that I'm like what the all these people who I really like like and admire and are really good at like engaging and all that they all tell me I
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gotta read this book I gotta read this book and so I finally read it I'm like I was such a not to have read this when I was your age when I was 25 right and and so the ability to like in it he says I think it's him but uh he has a great
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line which is there are no boring people and uh you know then he he drops into you just have to ask them the right questions right and so your description of it of mirroring themselves back at them I think is really interesting uh have you found uh as you think about
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your guests and you think about all the various things that you've chatted about in the research angle part of it were there consistent themes that you were seeing even though the people were very different right and maybe in different
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fields maybe just in different tribes you know but was there something that you kind of saw going through all of them when you were doing the research yes and that is they're all going towards the light the people that I'm having on and the
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people that I'm researching and learning about they're all pursuing the best version of themselves in some capacity and I'm like I it excites me so much because I get to spend so much time understanding these people who are actively trying to pursue
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what they believe is the best versus people who and and this is one of the the criticisms of the show is like dude where where is the darkness you know and and I I respect that and I I respect that perspective I'm attracted
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to the light you know like I I want to be as good as I possibly can be on this floating Rock in space because to me that's the most enjoyable thing and spend time with also people who are doing that but it also has led me to realize wow there's also not a lot of
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people like in the dark and can learning about the dark actually inform some of the light and so I'm curious from your perspective like you're you're remarkably positive you're curious you are interested in the world
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and you seem like somebody from the outside looking and that's very full of light what has been your relationship with the dark been like first off I I will answer your question but I love the way the podcaster and you just can't give up that host Mike
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I know you are I love it I I'll fact that but but you you've been on the host end of these so much that you just can't help yourself so I I like that that that's uh an interesting way to keep conversation interesting and fresh so uh
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the dark side like I I I'm a big reader of young and Carl Jung the uh psychoanalyst um and student of Freud and he had a great quote which is until you make the unconscious conscious and integrate The Shadow you will always look at what happens to you and call it fate
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and I loved that line and I butchered it um but I think I hit the high notes um like I believe we all have you know the symbol of the Dao right the light and dark and it they go together um and for my friend David Roney who told me that I'm not supposed to make
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hand gestures because he listens to them and he doesn't watch the video I was moving my hands David yeah um but the the the the Dao I love the symbol of the dial that's another thing that I've been reading since I was 18 about to the Dao de Jing
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it talks all about you know the Dao which is the process the way the light but also the dark right so I think that I definitely have experienced uh the Dark Side of Life um and and some of those were um things I had no control over uh for
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example I had my oldest sister die when I was young and that was really hard um and uh a bunch of other things and and that was kind of what drew me into investigate first off investigating okay like lots of really bad happens in the world
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how do you square that with you know your attitude that you know there there can be all sorts of great things in the world um and that kind of led me to the stoics and and to the idea that listen you're the author of your life in my opinion and I have all these old
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journals that uh uh we're gonna have digitized and I realized that I've been writing that since I was like in my early 20s and uh so if you're gonna be the author of your life you have to be willing to look in kind of an unflinching way at
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your own dark side because we all have one right and uh you know one of the cues that I can tell that people have uh I have uh integrated it into their overall personality is there's funny um and they and and they are in general cheerful
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um and uh you know there's the other great quote uh to those who feel life is a tragedy to those who think life is a comedy um and so try to do a little bit of both and then you integrate the shadow then you integrate the dark side
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did I do okay Professor you're the podcast uh Katie gear not me [Laughter] you're the king that was amazing thank you so much and uh yeah really helpful in uh in in terms of exploring the dark side you you would recommend starting with young or other
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resources yeah I think Young is uh he's he he speaks specifically about it um and and so you know what I'll do just to not take us off track here I'll try to think of who who you should read and I'll send that to you and knowing Ed
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William who is the real brains behind this operation uh he will have that up in the show notes as well because I will completely forget about it and awesome but but we'll do that I want to get back to you talk to me about a time when something
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and and you don't obviously please don't name the person but but sometimes where things went just totally sideways totally Fubar right like and and and when that happened what did you do how did you react how did you try to fix it when did things go wrong it's funny
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because I I think often about like how quickly it feels like my current state is able to go do what's positive and what's right and what and looking at the light but if I were to think about like things going wrong I would think about uh
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in September of 2019. was a really difficult time for me because I had a job in which it looked good to the external World it looked good I thought it was something that I wanted and I felt really good about it when I took the job and then
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when I sat in it and lived in it it was not fulfilling a purpose inside of me and so I got really upset I got depressed I was like this is what I thought I wanted everything on the external seems like it's good and I what I did in that moment was I I quit
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the job and I started to meditate and I started to do 75 hard which was a program that for 75 days straight you have to read 10 pages of a book you have to do two workouts a day if they take a progress picture like in the mirror you
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have to follow a diet of some sort and doing all of that really just led me to figure out the right track to go on it was the combination of meditation and doing the 75 hard program that really allowed me to be like I'm a different person now
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and uh yeah that that was one of the most difficult times in my life when I got everything I wanted externally but it wasn't what I felt internally called to do interesting that at such a young age you would notice that and take action and
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pivot so congratulations on that what do you do when like something goes wrong with a guest I.E you know uh you've researched them like they're really pithy and and you realized oh my God they're really good at writing but they can't talk I mean
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that's okay like I don't view that as a negative I view that as um I I don't put any blame on that person and I don't I don't think about that as a bad thing like all right they can't speak well so what like that's not the end of the world like that's a
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problem that they have potentially or not like they're an amazing writer that's why they came on the show and I don't know I I think the ability to navigate with situations the podcast is so like it's just a conversation with
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people it can't really go that wrong I'm coming at it from a place of love and there there's been no situations where something really bad happened or I couldn't believe it or it was irreversible like just a conversation it's recorded and and uh yeah I I don't
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know just pretty pretty go with the flow in terms of the podcast I like I like that you the positivity is rubbing off on even me I mean my God you are you're like a charm if I could read David David Roney I'm reaching through the screen now to use him as my lucky
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jar um have have you found I love your attitude I love the attitude that you take towards life because uh I had a young guy who I'm gonna have back on the podcast George Mack who is just on Chris's uh podcast and and I loved him
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because he's like got all these razors right and but but they work right so increase the surface area for luck well he breaks it down how do I do that like if there's two things I can do I'm gonna go to the one with the most people
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because there's gonna be more chance of luck at that particular one and and do you find yourself um like do you break things down like George does or are these all kind of internally just you know your human OS you you've met a program some of it and and you
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just do it automatically George is way smarter than me that's for sure like if in another life I could be reborn as somebody as intelligent as George I would be so happy with that but I'm writing a blog post Jim at 13 years old eight simple steps to be happier
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I don't know any 13 year old who's writing that blog post so somewhere deep inside of me is positivity light love I was given an incredible childhood my parents loved me you know like and I'm doing my best by reading books like the
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big leap to help other people achieve the same sense of Peace calm happiness and joy for life I don't I wish I was as smart as as Georgia maybe I'll work with George to help break down some of what I'm doing here but uh no unfortunately I don't I don't
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have good razors or or anything like that uh but that that leads to another interesting part of the conversation so you know what's Mission critical for you what what determines guest a over guess B for you yeah it's a good question um
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I I follow my intuition I I know that I have a pretty good intuition since at 13 years old I'm writing about what I'm writing about so I I trust that and I think about someone's writing I think about how they're showing up on the Internet or in a book and I'm asking
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myself what what about this is interesting what about this could be a story what about this uh person do I enjoy or I want to learn more about and I really follow that because that has not steered me wrong but uh yeah because I'm not covering any
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topic per se I'm covering like what I find interesting and do I find this interesting in this moment no okay I don't want to have that person on and it's no hard feelings towards that person there might be another moment where I am interested in that person so
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or that idea that they're spouting so so given all the underlying theme that you have which I think is cool uh the abundance mentality you know uh I you know the idea that you just can't beat the guy who never gives up I love that
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aspect of what you're doing um and let's say would you do a Tim Ferriss ever and write a tools for Titans from your the guests that you've had on is that the way you think is that the way you break things down yeah I I think that's a a good
39:34
suggestion and someone recently came across a book that was similar like a hundred great ideas from different people and that person was the compiler I I very much view myself in that way as like I'm collecting people I'm collecting ideas I'm not the generator
39:51
of these Amazing Ideas I just want to like bring all the best people together I want to bring all the best ideas and put them in into one resource so I could definitely imagine myself doing something like that and I will
40:04
definitely have to review our episode in order to uh put some good stuff into that book that well that's paulina's new book too that's what she did from uh yeah yeah which is it which is uh those are fun books to do um so when when you are doing a podcast
40:30
do you do you ever hear back from any of your guests like man Danny after we did that podcast together I had this great idea that I don't think I would have had right unless I had been in that conversation with you has that ever happened to you
40:47
what happens often is people feel like a weight off their shoulders particularly if it's in person and what I I realize I'm trying to do is I'm trying to help someone learn more about themselves but I'm also I'm trying to give them the same
41:04
experience that I have when I meditate I'm trying to go help them go inward understand themselves at a place where they're like oh wow I didn't realize I had this idea I didn't realize the situation from childhood is holding me back today I'm trying to make some of
41:20
their unconscious conscious is what I'm really trying to do and so when that happens you naturally will have new ideas that will pop up in its place but I'm really trying to help people learn more about themselves and give people
41:33
in some sense like a therapy session but a reflection of their life in an interesting way and uh in a positive light and so the response that I often get particularly for in-person episodes is I like I feel weight off my shoulders
41:48
or that was really that was different in some way that's what people often say that was different that's very cool I want to talk about two things that you said in your response uh first off the difference between in person and what we are doing
42:03
today which is over Zoom uh talk to me about uh the differences for you um in terms of your energy level what you take away from the podcast what are the pluses and minuses so when you do it virtually obviously the convenience of it is amazing the we
42:24
could be in different places different times like that is is so remarkable to me in an amazing achievement but it's not a hundred percent there you can't feel like there are some factors like someone's height like the way somebody
42:39
has different motions with their face that you could really only pick up in person and one I mean millions of years of evolution has got to that point where we're able to see that in person and the fact that we could do this digitally is incredible but
42:55
there's some unseen Factor like for you how what percentage of this virtually do you think we're like happens when we're in person like how how good is the in-person versus virtual what percentage would you give to it you're doing it again I love this I he's
43:16
wrestling for control of the host Mike here ladies and gentlemen and others aunt or as Brent B Sure used to say uh ladies and gentlemen and YouTube Morgan Howell 50 percent so um it it really depends on what you are doing via the interface right so uh this
43:47
is really great for interacting with people who you know uh who might be on your team I find that you know doing team meetings this way is very convenient for the most part but in person as you quite rightly point out uh
44:06
Evolution had a lot of fun with us over the eons uh of making us better and so I like any bake thing uh like if you're gonna make a big investment you better meet that person in person uh because we leak information and we're not aware of
44:24
it there's books and books and books about it about you could study uh endlessly just to become even just sort of marginally competent at micro expressions uh there's there's even weirer things like pheromones we all put off scents and like if you're not around
44:44
in your nose or let's say you can't smell you are missing out on something um and then of course the classic body language right um the the challenge is that sometimes uh it on a screen things look very different right so using body language
45:05
as the example right so David Roney is just gonna hate me and he's gonna probably have to watch this one on YouTube because we're gonna do everything visually take that David and hit subscribe yeah so so so on film I am now doing an exaggerated
45:27
alpha male thing and what I'm doing is I've got my hands behind my head and I'm kind of leaning back looking at Daddy and in real life people would know how look how fake this looks on screen if you're not actually thinking about it it
45:47
passes right so there are a lot of ways that screens allow you to hack into our evolutionary system and and something that in real life everyone will look and say Jim what the are you doing like are you making fun of somebody uh like why are you
46:06
doing these horribly exaggerated things whereas if they only see it on screen they immediately think oh oh there's a mouthful male I love her paying attention to him and and so I mean great directors have known that forever right they did a a
46:25
Russian director I don't remember his name back in the 1920s he took a shot of various actors and actresses and told them you know look out this window or look down uh whatever but don't show any emotion none so what he wanted to see was do people
46:46
put their own feelings onto a neutral character and they absolutely do and it is context related so what he would do is the actor looking out the window right so he's got an actor simply looking out a window and then he reads A really upbeat story to
47:10
the participants in the study and they say and then he asked do you think that actor accurately uh uh envisions or or is a good visual representation of that excitement and everyone's like yeah he's looking out the window because he's open
47:26
to what's going to happen and you know he's looking for that opportunity and like it was like programming them and then he'd read a really sad story and guess what same actor same piece of film oh yeah you can see his sorrow you could see the
47:46
ebiness in his eyes and his shoulders oh my God he's the best actor in the world so if you if you think about it screens are different mediation right and they have their own rules so they can be very useful it's very convenient for me because I get guests
48:08
from all around the world um and but I my preference if if I could wave a wand and like magic you hear I would do that yeah well I mean that's why I look at what Rogan's done and he flies people in and I have a friend Julian Dory who's
48:28
not as well known but he flies people into his place as well and it's like that's like made waving a magic wandan just like having someone appear and my my vision for the podcast is like can I just wave a magic wand into anyone that
48:45
I want up here to me that's like a dream life and it's like I'm not quite there yet but like I'm getting there and so that's a really cool feeling of being in the process of getting the ability for more and more people to want to just have a conversation like when did you
49:02
feel like what did you feel like in your life three strikes and you're out Daddy I might I might even put this on a shelf and just tell Adam he kept trying to grab the uh videos uh Mike and I admire him for it but look at him try to come
49:23
and dear my show I'm teasing you you know I'm sure I'm sure people listening to your show are most likely based on the life you've lived and the interestingness of who you are are probably more interested in you than they're interested in me and for
49:43
good reason you've lived a an incredible life you've experienced amazing things and I I'm just curious like genuinely speaking like we were just all the cameras were off I'd be asking the same questions when did you feel like in your
49:56
life you were like all right I could speak to pretty much anyone I want to was there a moment that that hit for you I was always uh a fairly outgoing person so uh honestly the answer to that question is for as long as I can remember
50:15
like literally I just had I and it just dumb luck I think right so genetically I was predisposed or being like that and so I I just uh and that's an interesting question because it I've never really even thought about that um and yet that is a huge advantage in
50:39
life and and there are like I I do think about that a lot like talking about you again uh persistence man there's a difference between being bull-headed and being persistent right and being diligent like bullheaded is you keep doing something but you're
50:57
doing it wrong and it just leads to negative compounding and God damn it I'm gonna I'm right the world's wrong and I'm just gonna keep doing it I'm gonna work harder and smarter and better and if you're doing the wrong thing it
51:12
doesn't matter you'll just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper and deeper so one of the great advantages in light is the bad ability to engage with other people because I I at best think of myself and anything I do as a co-creator
51:30
CO always Co in front of it right because like a lot of the ideas that I've been lucky enough to uh get behind do well with Etc there's always there's always somebody who deserves credit on that uh on that card and so it I also find that it helps to have that as a
51:54
frame of reference right when you when you think no no this isn't my invention this isn't my Discovery at best I'm the co-creator here what happens is you your aperture opens way up and it allows you to like I'm gonna learn a bunch from you
52:13
because you've been doing it in a different way than me you have a different objective than I have but it gives me the opportunity to go oh you know what and in fact I just uh flashed on one thing that when you were talking you know I'm going to start flying
52:29
people here because um the the ability to do this in in real life really does add something to the mix now I'm not going to do that for everybody but like I've already learned something from you so I I think that if you approach the way that you can always
52:48
learn something from uh from anyone you're talking to and that's one of the things I really like about you is that you also have the agenda yeah which I think is good because another one of my things is I look for things to root for
53:02
not against and and like listen there are all 90 of the NPCs on social media and whatever it's just so much easier to say to be critical say that'll never work to say why would you even bother you know like I don't know if you were a fan you're
53:23
too young probably but uh Winnie the Pooh the cartoon version from Disney I we always loved because Eeyore was just like so great because he was such a bummer had had the contract the contrast between Eeyore and Tigger right like we
53:41
I we my wife and I would even use it as the shorthand like we don't want eeyors we want Tiggers I love that now we're gonna return to you because you have successfully hijacked you know what I think maybe we should just cut a deal and this should
53:58
be released at the Danny Miranda podcast number 398. hahaha I love that wait wait a move in on the territory I love it um so what what what are the best questions that you have alighted on are if we're let me roof rates are there any series of
54:25
questions that you always ask no matter what so at the end of every episode I ask what's a challenge you can leave the audience with and the reason why I asked that is because I want people to not just listen but actually do something
54:42
from the information we discussed and I think a lot of times especially in the world of let's gain more knowledge let's get smarter it's a lot of theory and I I love going to Theory but I also love the practicality aspect of what the
54:57
podcast can actually do for you and so the challenge points to the place in your heart you believe people should take this conversation and actually do something with it so I love to end the podcast with that idea similar it's
55:09
similar to Tim ferriss's what would you put on a billboard but to me it's like what is more action oriented and the challenge aspect of it uh and I've become like a collector of questions and I can read out a bunch to you from my sheet but I mean questions to me are
55:25
like so great because they help give people New Perspectives on the world and actually at the top of my list of great questions this is hilarious I have from Patrick O'Shaughnessy most this is a tweet that he had most great questions fall into
55:42
one of two buckets one what are the most interesting slash notable things about your past and life story and then two what are the most interesting and unique beliefs views that you have about the world and how things work and so if you think I've
55:58
like a hundred questions on this list and they all fall into one of two of those buckets so it's a very cool framework to have Patrick o'shaughness they've never heard of them probably probably a dodgy character would be my guess
56:16
a dodgy character happens to be my favorite interviewer in the world yes that is correct oh he's so much better than I am uh he used to tease me he used to see tease me and say you know Dad I think that I might be the better interviewer here
56:35
and he was always kind in the way he did it and and I would double oh absolutely you are but then he would add some sweetness at the end he and he would say but you're you're one of the better guests I thought you were gonna I thought you
56:54
were gonna respond to that by saying well Patrick who has sold more books no no no no no no no no no I uh yeah all all joking aside uh you know Patrick is so good at what he does and like he is the podcast King and uh in in fact when Jamie catherwood who was the
57:20
guy who annoyed me into doing this podcast um my principal reason for saying no was like why why we Patrick is the best there is why on Earth would I you know start being you know my rambly loquacious self and and he just he was great because he was like
57:44
he reminds me you remind me of him in that he was just so persistent and he answered everything and like I threw every roadblock I potentially could think of in front of Jamie it's like who's getting rid of the research I'm
57:59
gonna do that who's gonna do the gets I'm gonna get the guest Jim uh okay who's gonna deal with the producers I'm gonna do that Jim who's gonna do the promotion I'm gonna do that so I'm gonna like God damn it and so it actually gave me the opportunity to kind
58:15
of think about what okay so why would I have a podcast and and so for me um since I have no uh intention of ever monetizing infinite Loops um I thought well what about a podcast which is kind of like The Voice version of the movie My
58:38
Dinner with Andre and I'm sure you probably haven't seen that movie but you should you should go out and watch it and I would also urge uh anyone else who's listening or watching us to watch the movie My Dinner with Andre
58:53
um now it might show its age I think it's from 1980 or 1981 but essentially what it is is it's Wallace Shawn you know the guy from The Princess Bride who plays for zini the guy who's too sparked by a half and uh gets killed by uh The Dread pirate Roberts
59:14
um anyway so it's him and another guy and it's literally just a conversation and you will have one or two reactions to this movement I think either number one the one I had which is like what a great movie how cool would it be to like
59:35
have some ability to just be a fly on the wall and listen to these two people like have an unscripted completely no talking points conversation which to me is kind of the essence of why you would want to listen to a conversation at all right or you will hate it and if
59:58
you're listening to this now you'll say O'Shaughnessy is clearly already going senile because he had he watched this horrible movie of these two pretentious try to one-up each other those are going to be the two react well it that's the original podcast
1:00:18
right totally it sounds like it totally it's like what's what's the reason why people like Joe Rogan it's just two guys having an unfiltered conversation of what it is in that moment they they might as well call that my dinner with Joe Rogan over
1:00:33
and over and over again part one through 2029 right and and so I felt when when I light it on that I thought okay so you know what that might be interesting it's not going to ever be a big show it's not gonna ever be like Patrick's shows which
1:00:53
are doing what you're doing too which I find very valuable another guy who does this is a guy I love just saw him this week David senra uh Founders podcast and that seems to me to be there are kind of two general categories for podcasts
1:01:11
right so one is the kind that Patrick and David do and and you do which is you could create a course Library out of this stuff right like listen to invest like the best listen to Founders like that is like incredibly dense informationally Rich uh that I love your
1:01:36
uh final question right because that people can take action against um and then and then my bucket is much more the huh that's a really interesting concept I would have never thought about that unless I was listening to Jim and Danny
1:01:55
talk about like uh what what why why moving toward the light is a great North Star to have I've never thought about it that way I maybe I'm gonna give maybe I'm going to start thinking about things differently and and readjust the way uh
1:02:12
my mental models work right so I think that both can be successful but they're very very different I I personally think that um the that we still haven't touched the surface of this type of learning so more for the York camp but also now that we
1:02:33
have the tech just think of all of the interesting conversations of the past that never got recorded right and and so that's one of the things that makes me happy to still do this because at totally selfishly I I get to learn a lot of new stuff which I
1:02:52
think is awesome and cool one of my favorite things to think about is the printing press was invented in 1440. if you have access to write a book in 1460 you might be thinking oh my God everyone's got a publication everyone's
1:03:12
got a book everybody look at this this is crazy it's 1460. like how come so many people are using this thing this is unbelievable like there's no room for me to write a book and so what I think we have with podcasting is let's say the iPod was
1:03:29
invented in 2004 and podcasts start with the iPod so we're in 2023 a lot of people are thinking everybody's got a podcast there are four million podcasts out there there's so many there's too many podcasts it's like no we are at the start of the printing press for audio
1:03:45
and you are at the start of a revolution in the way things are consumed and how could you not just get so excited by this opportunity that is in front of you to be one of the first people ever to share your information to anyone in the
1:03:58
world to me it's the most incredible incredible thing and the awe of it makes me so excited today and so excited when I started and it makes me just enthralled with the possibilities that exist yeah and I'm sure it's apocryphal but there is a story about them finally
1:04:16
translating uh Sumerian tablet and it was a lament by a young poet from you know 10 000 BC saying all the good poems have been written foreign what am I going to add to the conversation I'm like there's a lot for you to add to the conversation just in
1:04:42
generally speaking and that is so exciting I I wish we could convince more people in general to start a podcast to interview people to talk to people in general like the world would be a brighter place I believe if we connected
1:04:54
more humans I completely agree uh and that's a central thesis for everything we're doing at autonomous Adventures actually and we actually have a project with Brian romelli where we're sending digital recorders uh for a series of a
1:05:10
thousand questions that he has uh called wisdom keeper and we're hoping that people will use these to talk to their older relatives and friends to be able to capture that uh to be able to capture that wisdom all right Danny now enough
1:05:27
of you turning the tables on me here I'm Gonna Make You the podcast czar and you are going to promulgate here are the five things you can never do if you want to be a successful podcaster and here are the five things that you always want to do what do you got for us
1:05:51
Mr the first thing is we're gonna no you can't listen you can't listen to the other person you're not allowed you're just gonna speak over them you're not going to take anything that they say into consideration and you're just gonna
1:06:10
come in with what you expect and you're just gonna flow and there's gonna be no actual connection that that's what we absolutely cannot do um and I think at the heart of this is presence right like in great conversations there are two presences
1:06:33
that are connecting to inform one like two minds connect to B1 and that this is what love is right when you love a comedian you laugh when you love a podcast guest or you're on a podcast with somebody else there's a love happening between you
1:06:51
guys that is creating something greater and that sounds like all like woo-woo fairy whatever but it's real like it is really real and I wish I could get that into more minds and hearts of like when David senra even like David senberg
1:07:09
does a solo podcast it's just him but guess what he is loving the material that he is covering and he is becoming one with that material and that material is then creating something greater than even the text or he could do on his own
1:07:22
because he's connecting with it and so what I try to do is I make my material the guest that I'm hosting and I try to love that person as much as I possibly can to live in their shoes to be with them so that they can get a greater understanding so that the
1:07:38
audience can get a greater understanding as well and what you what I hope everyone can do is is really just sit with if they have an interview show a podcast it's like sit with that person be with them really try to understand them their
1:07:54
ethos the way they think about the world their their unique gifts and reflect that back to them so that you can create something great together um so to me it's about questions it's about presence it's about connecting deeply with another human being to help
1:08:08
them learn something about themselves and uh to to help create a new way of being or a new frame of mind for somebody to grasp something in I mean what I love so much about what Patrick does is he he gives people words by which they already
1:08:27
there are things that in his episodes I already believed but I never had words too and he is able to ask questions to get that out of the guest and I'm like how do I spend more time with Patrick how do I learn from him how do I you
1:08:40
know I gotta transcribe and write every question that he asks but yeah that that to me is what makes for a great podcast that's what makes for a poor podcast and that that's my two cents on on the whole thing so so let's uh throw you in a Time
1:08:57
Tunnel and you're coming out in 2034 not uh 2024. uh what's what's the world of podcasting look like that that's a great question I'm going to believe that they're going to be more conversations that are more real than ever before
1:09:21
uh I believe it's probably something to do with virtual reality as well um different settings different places um but I think what's important to note is what won't change right like I love Jeff bezos's idea of like how do you prepare for the future you just look at
1:09:39
what won't change and to me what won't change in 2034 is people will have a longing for presence and love that is true today that was true 50 years ago that was true 5 000 years ago that it will always be true that people will be attached and want to look at
1:10:00
feel presence and love and so because that is the truth I don't know if so my my mission is to get better at connecting deeply with the presence and love within myself so that I can help give that to other people and my next 10
1:10:20
years the state of podcasting the people who are the best at presence and love will be at the top of the podcasting charts and those will be how we know quote unquote podcasting that's my perspective on it at least and and so finally then if clearly this is your
1:10:39
passion clearly you found you know the the reason why right which is great so so have you uh developed a road map for how how are you going to turn this into your career how are you going to monetize how are you going to do all of
1:10:59
that sort of stuff so how I've been monetizing is through Consulting other podcasters come to me and they're like one teach me how to grow teach me how to interview and so what I'm doing now is I'm building a course where I'm giving all
1:11:16
that information away for a lower price so that I can make it once and that people can buy it forever art of interviewing.com for more and uh Jim what's your favorite number uh pi 3.14 okay what can we do with 3.14 um well I can't give 314 off I can't give
1:11:45
three percent off let's do 31.4 percent off if you purchase art of interviewing in the next 90 days use the code gym j-i-m for 31.4 off how does that sound Jim that sounds very good and I can tell you that uh there's a wonderful movie
1:12:08
called Glenn Glen gory Glenn Roth which I hope you've seen because you following the ABCs always be closing you know Jim it's it's one part of my whole operation that I have not thought about at all I've not thought about monetizing I've not thought about
1:12:32
selling anything to anyone until I felt called to I have information that other people want and could benefit from did I want to sell anything and so you know my my mom my dad my they're like when are you gonna start making money off this thing when are you going
1:12:50
to start selling when are you and I'm like relax like this will all work out in due time and uh yeah I I don't consider myself a Salesman I don't I don't want to be known in that light but I do really want to get this information out
1:13:06
into more people's heads and hearts because I do think it can benefit more people broadly speaking even if they're not an interviewer yeah well Danny this has been fantastic um as a listener you know uh so my guess
1:13:22
is you've probably already thought about this but uh we've already made you a czar now we're going to promote you and we're gonna make you emperor of the entire world you know the rules you can't put anyone in a re-education camp you can't kill
1:13:37
anybody uh I can't tell you the number of deaths who get disappointed when they hear that before you mean I can't re-educate and and be a maximum glorious leader but what you can do is take a magic microphone that we hand you and
1:13:54
you can speak two things into it that will serve as a an Inception for all eight billion people on the world whenever they wake up whenever their next morning is they're going to sit up and the first thought they're gonna have is I just thought of the two best things
1:14:13
ever and I'm gonna take action against them right now what do you got all of a sudden I want to give love to the next person I see and every day I want to move my body and if we can do those two things if we can love one another and we can move we
1:14:37
can be free I believe and uh I try to live by example you know in every conversation I'm in in how I carry myself I'm just one person though and I don't expect everyone to use me as the influence but I think we all have more
1:14:53
influence than we realize we're all watching each other and when we see love out in the wild when we see people moving their body and exercising we inherently feel better or at least I do and uh those are the two things I would leave people with to live a brighter
1:15:07
life two great ones well listen this has been terrific I can hardly wait to take my seat at Madison Square Gardens for your live podcast is that going to happen in the next 10 years my friend yeah yes it will I love it all right Danny thank you so
1:15:28
much have a lovely day and just keep doing what you're doing man thank you Jim you're an inspiration and uh somebody I deeply look up to so it was an honor to be on your podcast and uh I'm really grateful to to I've known you
1:15:45
and to follow your tweets so keep doing what you're doing I shall and I on the other hand I have a bunch of people who are saying please stop what you doing please don't don't say that you don't you really don't want to say that yeah listen Daddy thank you thank you