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today.
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I'll just read it in case anyone's just tuning in >> uh this morning. Let's see.
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They've >> um we covered it at the beginning of the show.
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We're delighted by Google's success.
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They've made some great advances in AI and we continue to supply to Google.
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Nvidia is a generation ahead of the industry.
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It's the only platform that runs every AI model and does it everywhere computing is done.
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uh Nvidia offers greater performance, versatility, fungeibility than AS6 which are designed for specific AI frameworks or functions.
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So again, not not like these are these are meant to be inspiring, but they come off the you know, they have the opposite effect.
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>> It's really weird the tweet like I guess I sort of understood.
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Okay, so they sent out that note.
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You know, look, as I mentioned, um, over the last several weeks, for some reason, Wall Street has got really taken in with this whole conversation about GPU depreciation schedules.
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Maybe I think Michael Bur's been talking about it or something. Okay, fine.
0:57
Like, this has taken hold.
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I am sure this is the the type of thing where for every hundred people who are talking about this, maybe one knows what they're actually talking about.
1:07
Like, I have no doubt that there's all kinds of noise out there.
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And so maybe it makes sense for Nvidia to like, oh, let's let's put out some information that we have.
1:16
Like I guess it's a little weird, but okay.
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Like I I sort of get it given the degree to which this has just become a meme in the last few weeks.
1:22
The tweet about Google is a little strange like >> like I it's here is the here's the biggest most powerful company in the entire world and they're doing this sort of weird.
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We're excited to see we're happy for your success.
1:39
It reminded me it reminded me of Jensen's comment on the on the OpenAI AMD deal where it was like kind of snarky.
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He was saying something like, "I'm kind of surprised they would they're so excited about their new chip.
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I'm surprised they would give away 10% of their company before they've even developed it."
1:57
So, so again to to me I feel like when you're operating from a position of strength and confidence, you never you never talk about competitors from official channels.
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>> I in fact I had I I've given it I've given this advice very recently where like there's a a company that every time their competitor does something they post about it.
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>> Guess that guess guess quote tweet too.
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It's so much easier [laughter] to just be like like our esteemed our the other members of our industry or like the other big tech companies with do it this way or like other handset makers or other smartphone makers and everyone knows that you're talking about Google
2:39
or iPhone or whatever you're comparing to, but you >> in this case in this case the company that they always talk about has a hundred times their revenue [laughter] and so and so it and so it screams like it screams like we're obsessed with our competitor. But in this case, it's like
2:53
But in this case, it's like the TPU is just like the first sign of an external >> you immediately like pounce on them and you're like, you know, it's I I've been thinking I mean, one of the funny things about Jensen and video overall is you think about these other mega cap tech companies and these other ultra rich uh CEOs.
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You know, they've been dominant for in most of these cases for like well over a decade right now.
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They've been some of the most powerful companies in the entire world for over a decade.
3:25
Obviously, Nvidia is sort of this weird case because, you know, four years ago, people were talking about, oh, this is the company that makes chips for Ethereum mining or this is like that was what how a lot of people talked about Nvidia.
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Nvidia. I think even as yeah as recently as 2021 people were talking about oh Nvidia's so it might >> well people don't remember uh before there was the mag 7 there was fang and there was fang and what was it was Netflix it was not Nvidia it was
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Facebook Amazon Apple Netflix and then crazy to not include Microsoft right >> and they so they added Microsoft and they took out Netflix and then they added Nvidia and Tesla of course um but yeah I mean what what know what a wild >> it's a weird like what a run. I mean
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I mean obviously like Nvidia has been an incredibly successful company but it went from like a you know a pretty successful >> chip company to the biggest company in the world in a matter of few years.
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Maybe there's something there.
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Maybe there's still a chip on the shoulder.
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Maybe there's still some culture of feeling like it's the underdog and something where it's like yeah it's like act like you've been here. >> Yeah.
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It's one thing I mean the tenure thing is real.
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Like, but so here's the thing.
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If you're a startup >> and Google >> enters your market, I've seen a lot of founders or like a big company, if you get Sherlocked by Apple, you're going to hit the timeline and be like, I'm delighted by by Apple's new mobile app.
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We're validated to continue serving.
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>> They validated the the market.
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>> Yeah, they thank you for Thank you, Apple, for validating our industry. Right.
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But I don't think I don't think this Nvidia doesn't exactly need validation at this point from a competitor >> and the TPU is a decade old by the way, >> right?
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>> right? it's been around for a while and all right and all like that which is another sort of interesting dimension of all of this which is like suddenly people wake up and oh it's not like to your point I mean we've people have been talking about the existence of uh Google's TPUs for a long time obviously
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now there's been some question about the degree what's the strategy here would they ever sell them will they rent them out there have been obviously questions etc but it is funny how you know you get these moments where suddenly you know you get this 180 over the last several months weeks on Google. The Gemini 3
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The Gemini 3 launch, of course, bolstering this idea.
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Oh, actually, they're in a good space.
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And suddenly, oh, and they also have these TPUs, which they've had and been working on for a long time, but nothing really changed.
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They've had them for a while.
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There's not some new breakthrough announcement here or something.
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And so, suddenly Nvidia feeling like it has to respond. A little strange. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean it it it like uh I I do think that like there's so much demand that uh it's a little bit ridiculous to just be like oh Nvidia is completely over.
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Uh but at the same time like it's never great when you go from a monopoly to a duopoly like it's just that like it's always nice to be in less competitive market and uh and this whole year has been about AI is literally half as transformative as >> the AI bowls.
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>> the AI bowls. doesn't ma like you can have two players and the demand is so overwhelming that >> and like Nvidia's own sales are capped right by capacity and by production capacity there's only so much which is another sort of like interesting dimension that I'm like trying to get a
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better understanding of here >> which is that you know again it's not like search or [clears throat] AI or or chat bots etc there is the there are these constraining effects on the markets from how much fab capacity the is a TSMC or how many all some of this underlying equipment. So the ability of
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So the ability of anyone to scale up dramatically and expand the overall size of the market is sort of tough at this point.
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I don't know exactly what that means but it feel like my guess is I my assumption I don't would be that everyone remains pretty capacity constrained for some time.
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It does I don't think there's like a tons of tons of chips laying out there uh for the taking right now. >> Yeah.
7:25
uh give us an update on OddLots is a people have been congratulating you on 10 years.
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Did the 10-year date [clears throat] happen recently?
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>> The 10-year date did happen.
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We didn't even You know what's funny?
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I think it was um I think it was November 6th.
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I got an email because we So, we have a party which you both are invited to.
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>> Um we have a party in New York City in December to celebrate our 10 years.
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So, we've been sort of um That's right.
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>> You play the night vision. fire me up.
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>> Um, >> but so we were like getting ready for that.
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We've been doing some sort of 10 year episodes.
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We're talking to some big names and, you know, big big big picture thinkers and stuff like that.
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But I didn't realize the actual date until the morning of and I started getting random emails from people inside the company congratulating me, congratulating us on 10 years.
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But it's pretty crazy 10 times. >> Yeah. Wow. It's 10 times gone. Thank you.
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That this this has been the highlight the 10 the 10 Gong Smashers.
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This has been the highlight so far of our 10 year anniversary.
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>> Uh who's who's the most recent uh 10year guest that uh that was that exemplified that like bigger picture thinker. >> Yeah.
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Well, we had Ray Dalio on the podcast on Monday which was a lot of fun.
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He told us about meditation.
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He talked to us about the importance of transparent culture, about the importance of letting junior staffers or junior employees at Bridgewater attack the senior employees.
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>> I loved his story about uh the first stock he ever bought. I know. Hilarious.
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I don't know if he tells that constantly.
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I haven't listened to every such a good story.
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He's just like He's just like, "Uh, I saw it and it was was it the cheapest stock he could possibly >> the cheapest nominal stock that was like $5 a share." >> Yeah. >> He's retail. He's a retail army.
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They I mean it's like in in crypto when they're like it's 00001 cent a token.
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Imagine if it's a dollar and you'll be like, I have so much money.
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>> Can we talk about that for a second?
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It's really annoying with some of these crypto prices to have to like squint and see how many zeros there are.
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They need some reverse splits.
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I really think like we need to go we need to like $1, $2.
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But no, to your point, right, it's it's basically if we're >> I don't want to be insulting, but it's basically like the dumbest.
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>> It's trying to attract the dumbest kind of trader there is when you're like, "Oh, this is cheap because it's one 1 millionth of a cent or whatever." >> You're still early. >> Yeah.
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I mean, imagine if this were a dollar.
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>> I remember the Doge to a dollar campaign.
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Everyone Doge to a dollar.
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>> That was a very powerful meme. >> It was very powerful.
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These things these things are real.
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I thought it was going to get there cuz I think it got to like 30 something cents or so.
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So I was like, "Oh, it's like the it's definitely going to satisfy the meme."
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It never made >> I thought I thought it was going to get there because I put my whole page.
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[laughter] >> I really thought it was I was like, "Oh, it's obviously going to go to a dollar everyone."
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>> It did seem like the meme was going to work, but it got close. Fairly close. It was run.
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Jordy, >> are you aware of a single person that has sold uh their primary residence in New York and is going to going elsewhere since the election?
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What's been the what's been the sentiment?
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>> I know a bunch of former OnLots guests are on the transition are on the >> which is cool because you guys have some insight into like how these people think and the public does. >> Yeah.
10:49
I have not heard of anyone who is uh leaving New York City. It's interesting.
10:53
There's a I don't know the name of the brokerage, but there is one of the brokers in New York runs these ads, speaking of outdoor ads, in the taxis.
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And prior to the election, they're very scaremongering and they were like talking about deals in Florida and all this like real estate that you could buy in Florida, etc.
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Anyway, after the election, I saw one of the ads this week and it was talking about how JP Morgan just opened up its new headquarters in New York City and how all of the how many employees they're going to have there.
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So, I guess now that uh now that the election is over, they can go back to selling New York City real estate because, you know, they didn't get the I don't think they got the out those brokers did not get the outcome that they were hoping for.
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But yeah, we have some uh we have some past uh guests on in the transition team.
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Paul Williams, um shout out to him, who I also play music with in my country music band, Lightseed Crude.
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He's on the uh the housing transition.
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Kathy Wild who is the head of the partnership for New York City which is the big organization of a bunch of CEOs um etc.
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That's like the most like sort of like died in the wool like sort of you know they're not a lobbyist group but they represent the business community even she is in the transition uh team.
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She's also been on the podcast.
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So it seems like you know I've seen a bunch of people angry at some of the picks, happy about some of the other picks.
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It seems like he has built a um he's at least with these selections a little something for everyone, some moderate, some normies, some more radicals, etc.
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Enough for like everyone to be a little happy and a little a little concerned maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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I mean, it certainly seemed like that there was that violent clip of him with Trump that was very funny where they're kind of going, >> "Oh, that was crazy."
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>> It felt [clears throat] like there was just like, okay, there's a lot of theater on both sides here.
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They're both They're all having fun.
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You know, they're not like I can't even be in the same room as that person. No.
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So, you know, >> I think that like for those of us not in politics, it's I don't know.
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It's like hard for us to imagine how these people who are like the way the rhetoric and then they like get together and they smile in front of the camera and like feels very weird, but you know, they're just like they're professionals.
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>> I mean, NFL teams have rivalries.
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They shake hands at the end of the game.
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I think that's kind of the nature of these things, which is fun. WWE Yeah, WWE.
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I've always liked the the wrestling metaphor.
13:07
Uh >> the um the thing is too is that like whether we're talking about the selections of people for the transition or the I think very wise choice by uh MANA to like try to be friendly with the White House or at least find some common ground is look there's some like pretty hard budget constraints etc.
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It the mayor the job of mayor is a management job.
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Um you know the trains aren't going to run themselves the buses aren't going to run themselves.
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The apartments aren't going to get built.
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So there's a certain amount of like required between the budget constraints and just everything else.
13:40
I think there is a certain amount of sort of forced pragmatism that's probably at play here.
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>> Yeah, that makes sense.
13:46
Um we'll let you go in just a minute.
13:48
Uh what's next on the economic calendar that you're tracking?
13:53
Uh what what what should we be looking forward to through the end of the year?
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Uh obviously in our world we're very excited about Black Friday.
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Going to be tracking those numbers.
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also an interesting economic indicator.
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But uh what's on the top of your mind?
14:07
>> You know, I think actually like basically all data through the end of the year is going to kind of be garbage because obviously we're going to get the restart of the data and we'll get more timely jobs data and so forth, but all of that is going to be affected by the shutdown.
14:21
>> October, we are not getting anything from October, right?
14:23
>> Yeah, we're not getting anything from October.
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And then November is going to be affected in large part from the shutdown.
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So those numbers aren't going to mean anything anyway.
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And so probably the next clean report where we could say okay this is actually well collected data to the extent I need data is there's all kinds of issues with collection and is not affected by the shutdown.
14:42
So that's going to come out in January about December which is going to um be very strange you know I think the big development is so I think it's December 10th is the next Fed meeting.
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As recently as a week ago it was looking like they were not going to cut. The odds were below 50%.
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But a number of the uh FOMC members in the last several days have come out and said they're cool with the cut.
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So it looks like as of right now we're going to get a cut, but that is uh I think that meeting is the day before we get the November jobs data.
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So it's all going to be sort of a mess I would say until early next year. >> Mhm. >> Uh last question.
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How should people read into not getting data from the month of October?
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Should we say that like the the simplest explanation is employees were furoughed?
15:28
>> We don't have we don't have time to go back and collect all the information.
15:32
>> I think in this I think I my impulse is that the simple explanation is the correct one that due to the timing of the shutdown or the duration of the shutdown it's like unrealistic or something like that as opposed to something nefarious.
15:46
If it could if there if if there continue to be more things then okay then we see what's up but I would say this it's probably pretty straightforwardly linked to the fact that you know these these the government shut down. Yeah. >> Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.
16:00
Well, thank you so much for taking the time. Happy holidays.
16:04
Hope you have a fantastic Thanksgiving and we will talk to you soon. Likewise.
16:08
>> Have a great talk soon. Bye.
16:09
>> Uh let me tell you about graphite.
16:09
dev code review for the age of AI.
16:11
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16:15
And I'm also going to tell you about Finn. ai.
16:17
on AI, AI that handles your customer support, the number one AI agent for customer service.
16:23
Our next guest is director Michael Katzios.
16:26
He is the 13th director [music] of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.
16:30
And it is great to have him here with us on the show.
16:35
>> One of the best call-in setups we've seen. >> You look fantastic.
16:37
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. How are you doing? >> I am great.
16:42
Thank you guys so much for having me.
16:44
I have followed your uh meteoric rise over the last year.
16:46
I uh I feel like I should have been on this show much earlier.
16:51
>> I Yeah, we would have loved to have you, but uh we're very happy to have you today because there's massive news, but I'd love for you to introduce it and actually set up the conversation.
16:59
Um so please take us through the announcement and uh and then I'm sure we'll have a ton of conversation and questions to go through. >> Yeah.
17:08
So I think maybe we can start with the AI action plan that the president signed out in uh July of last year.
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And one of the main themes of AI action plan essentially to win the AI race is all about how we can win in scientific discovery.
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And the question was like how do we do that?
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What's like the next chapter of using AI to drive scientific innovation in our country?
17:29
>> And yesterday the president signed an executive order launching what is known as the Genesis mission.
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And I think for a lot of folks that you know you guys talk to every day, you know this, you know, AI has, you know, had this incredible rise over the last couple of years, it ultimately started first with large language models themselves.
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And those are where we scrape the totality of knowledge on the internet and we're able to then create these models that can predict all sorts of things, the next word, if you will.
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>> The next phase of it was all around coding.
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And you've seen these great startups that are incredible at coding.
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Some are huge model builders are awesome at coding, too.
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But the big question that still remains is how do you apply this large language technology to scientific endeavors?
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How do you use it to be able to create new materials?
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How do you use it to create new microprocessors?
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How do you use it and tap it into all of sort of this exquisite scientific technology and hardware that exists all around the world?
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And what the Genesis mission tries to do is to bring all of the super valuable important data that the national labs have collected over the last 70 years and put it to use to train large language models to be able to dramatically and I mean dramatically accelerate the pace of scientific discovery.
18:39
So this is I would argue and I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.
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This is going to be the single largest marshalling of the federal resources of scientific discovery since the Apollo program.
18:49
So, we're thrilled to kick it off and DOE is going to be the home for it.
18:54
>> Talk to me about the relationship between uh the public sector and the private sector.
18:58
I feel like a lot of folks in our audience have said, "Thank you for your service. We loved DARPA.
19:02
We loved when DARPA created the internet. We love GPS.
19:06
We loved the moon mission. But we got it from here.
19:09
We invented the transformer at Google.
19:11
We invented SpaceX and the the rockets that go up and land and we think uh private industry has it handled from here on the research side.
19:20
Um we don't need anything from the government.
19:22
Uh how do you think about uh is that just is this just a misconception and we actually need more original new ideas research in a government setting or is there more of a public private partnership that you think will play out here?
19:36
>> I think it's definitely more of the latter.
19:38
I mean the reality is that when some of the initial projects were launched in the 1950s, you think of Manhattan project, that was an era where the vast majority of research and development in the United States was paid for and funded by the federal government.
19:51
Um to the tune of almost 70 or 80% of it was funded by the federal government.
19:55
If you zoom ahead sort of the 70 years that we are where we are today, the vast majority has done private private sector.
20:00
You know, generally the United States spends about a trillion dollars a year on R&D and about 80% of it today is done done by the private sector.
20:08
Now, that being said, there is a critically important role for the government for the government to play in that larger ecosystem.
20:16
And it truly is an ecosystem.
20:18
You have to have private sector, academia, and the federal government all working hand inand to sort of make the very important basic research breakthroughs and ultimately commercialize those.
20:27
And the secret and the sort of unique special thing about the Genesis mission is the scientific data sets that exist at the national labs.
20:36
This is a unique asset that is so valuable to the American people and to all of a scientific enterprise in the United States.
20:42
And the bottleneck, as you guys know so well in so many of these AI endeavors is how do you get the right data to train these models?
20:48
And for the early large language models, the data was just out on the internet.
20:52
You could use common crawl and scrape it.
20:54
For the world of coding, you had lots and lots of of coders and lots and lots of material that you could use to train those coding models.
21:00
But for science, it's not that easy. You have silo data.
21:04
You have pharmaceutical companies that have pharmaceutical related data.
21:05
You may have chemical companies that have chemical related data.
21:08
But what's so special about our national lab ecosystem is that it covers such a diverse and broad range of scientific endeavors.
21:15
You have biologists, you have material scientists, you have chemists, you have people who are working on space all in the same national lab infrastructure.
21:24
And that depth of data is so incredibly powerful in order to accelerate scientific opportunity and endeavor.
21:29
And kind of that's what the genus mission is all about.
21:32
And to your point about private sector involvement, the thing that we have been so excited about is the private sector is clamoring to be part of Genesis mission.
21:39
We all are in this together.
21:41
There's a desire to pair the incredible supercomputing infrastructure and the GPU capacity of our greatest chip companies with the great data sets we have at DOE and everything in between. >> Yeah.
21:52
Um the Can you help me understand a little bit more how a lab might actually plug into the Genesis mission because uh we we've seen a lot of the labs say oh we want to start working on science.
22:04
Some of the labs have already I mean Google has a Nobel piece a Nobel Prize right for Alphafold.
22:08
Um does that does that look like them interfacing directly with the DOE or going through a lab or h how does that take shape do you think?
22:20
So what DOE is ultimately the department of energy is going to be creating is a platform for scientific discovery and there we're going to be making available the very valuable scientific data sets that can be used to run these large language models for science and as we've seen you know OpenAI had a nice uh tweet thread about sort of this project and how excited they are about it.
22:39
We've seen lots of other companies already pursue this Google of course with with with AlphaFold and and and the Nobel Prize that they've won there.
22:46
So what we're seeing is all of these um large language model builders or labs themselves want to partner with the department of energy so we can work handinand glove to accelerate the scientific discovery.
22:57
The key is how do we just zoom out a second think about how do we 2x the ability of us to very quickly iterate on scientific experimentation.
23:06
So right now if you have a hypothesis and you want to test it, how do we make that two or even 10x faster?
23:11
How can we make it so that if we have an idea, we can send that idea to an AI powered cloud lab and the test can be run behind the scenes as we're working on a second project.
23:19
So that's the sort of like big level thinking that we want to do to dramatically dramatically accelerate the velocity and pace of scientific discovery.
23:26
Can you help me understand uh how you think the United States is positioned geopolitically against our nearpeer rivals on the issue of AI in science?
23:40
I'm pretty uh I I feel like I'm relatively up to speed on just the general capabilities of American image models versus maybe Chinese image models or uh Deepseek versus GPTOSS and the llama models.
23:52
I kind of know where we're standing in just the general industry uh the industrial uses or the the general uses of these LLMs and the AI uh models that are coming out of America and China.
24:03
How are you thinking about America's competitiveness on the science and research side?
24:10
>> So, we're in a lot earlier innings of that.
24:12
That's a really good question.
24:12
And I think what's unique about sort of AI for science is it has to pair this exquisite scientific physical infrastructure with the models themselves.
24:23
So if you want to drive scientist discovery, you have to be able to pair what's coming off of telescopes, what's coming off of lasers and all this stuff to be able to match them with large language models to be able to accelerate that loop.
24:35
And we're still in the very early innings of it.
24:37
And in order for us to do in order to sort of outpace and continue to keep our lead in some of these other places we have to do something like the Genesis mission.
24:46
We have to wake up a country and say like look where do we have the most valuable scientific data sets and how do we make those data sets available to our model builders to be able to create the necessary tools to pair the data coming off these explicit scientific instruments back into these these AI models.
25:03
And like think about it if for us we want to win on fusion for example. Yeah.
25:07
So for fusion, Google's already doing this, but there's a ton of companies around around the United States that are very heavily funded that all have lots and lots of experimentation they want to do with these fusion reactors.
25:16
The ability for us to be able to accelerate the modeling of that through the Genesis mission rather than each individual company having to do it on its own can be really really dramatic.
25:26
So back from a pacing standpoint, I think the US has all of these amazing instruments. It has the labs.
25:32
It has the great private sector together.
25:34
And what the Jenna's mission tries to do is bring that together in a way that's like truly American where each of us is part of the ecosystem can play the important role that we're best at with obvious sort of commercial um goals in mind down the road.
25:46
And that's what's sort of driven this great discovery we've had for years.
25:50
And I think we're going to continue to see that in the years ahead.
25:53
>> What uh what role does academia play as part of this project uh in your view?
26:01
So I think for us academia has always played a very important role in pursuing early stage basic pre-ompetitive R&B.
26:06
As we think of all of the most critical areas of scientific endeavor, whether it be in materials or in chemistry or in mathematics or in physics or science, there is still a critically important role in that early stage discovery science.
26:21
And academia can play a very important role there.
26:24
They're the ones that have these these thesis and these ideas and these hypotheses to solve some of these very early fundamental problems that can ultimately unlock great commercialized solutions in the years ahead.
26:35
So, academia and universities are and do want to be part of the Genesis mission.
26:39
There's an important role for a lot of these departments, professors and and thought leaders to be part of it and to to introduce their ideas and concepts of things that they want to test.
26:47
What ultimately Genesis is going to do, it's going to create up to 20 grand challenges on some of the biggest scientific problems we face today.
26:54
And we're looking for everyone.
26:56
You can be in academia, you can be in the private sector, you can be in your garage, wherever you are, we want you to come with the best idea on how to solve those and be able to leverage the great infrastructure that the federal government has at its labs to solve those.
27:09
>> How are you thinking about AI risk these days?
27:12
I feel like uh we've been on a total roller coaster from sci-fi paper clipping scenarios to uh some very real uh geopolitical competition and uh issues with people maybe using these models too much uh going somewhat crazy.
27:30
There's been a wild ride that I think everyone's been on and I'm interested to hear how you think about AI safety these days.
27:37
uh is the is is the nuclear analogy the most important?
27:40
Is this a Manhattan project?
27:42
How do you think about uh the role that the US government should play in the AI safety discussion?
27:49
>> Yeah, you know, I think as I kind of look back and think about how the early conversations were when some of the the the big model lab builders came to, you know, came to Capitol Hill and, you know, talked about wanting to create kind of an IAEA for AI.
28:00
kind of an IAEA for AI. I think it I think honestly it set the wrong tone and I think it set sort of the industry back for a while and I don't know how much you guys track sort of like global politics of of of AI policy but for a good two years there I think that the sort of discussion on the on the global
28:17
stage was you know what are the worst possible things that AI could possibly do for the world and let's try to like figure out if we as a collective you know world can find some sort of like global solution to solving it and obviously ly that's kind of the wrong approach and everyone's backed away from it. You know, the the UK themselves that
28:34
You know, the the UK themselves that were kind of touting their big u you you know UK safety institute have renamed it the security institute.
28:40
We as the as Trump administration you know uh renamed the the the AI safety institute or department of commerce uh as well and kind of moved it in a direction of of innovation and adoption versus sort of this nebulous catch-all safety term.
28:53
this nebulous catch-all safety term. But I think to me, one thing I always think about and we always have to balance is and maybe it's a little personal, but to me, I recently became a father in July and and I think a lot about the way that
29:05
my child is going to grow up, the way that he is going to interact with this particular technology, the way it's going to impact not only the way that he grows and learns in school, but also the types of job that he's going to have and how he's going to enter the workforce. And I think there are very credible and
29:17
And I think there are very credible and like real things that the American people are thinking about about how this technology can be best used to improve their way of life and ultimately help them live a better and more fulfilled and more rich life.
29:28
And we at the White House are are all about finding ways to encourage adoption of this technology.
29:36
And in order for that to happen, we have to have the trust of the American people.
29:39
And trust is kind part and parcel of everything we're trying to do.
29:43
whether we're building out, you know, AI for educational reasons or to improve the amount of energy that we have in the United States or solve the the the the biggest health crisis that we may encounter in the future.
29:53
We want to build that trust.
29:55
So when these solutions are coming about because of AI, it's embraced and it's something we worry about and think about a lot and it's something that um a lot of our standards agencies are thinking about.
30:04
How do you promulgate the right standards so that um when these technologies are put into all these different industries, people trust them.
30:11
How are you thinking about uh job displacement at this point?
30:14
The models are so incredible.
30:15
They're smarter than me at everything and yet I haven't actually been able to drop them in as a co-orker right next to me.
30:24
>> Every day we try to replace Tyler.
30:24
We say Tyler, replace yourself. He's just too good.
30:30
>> But there's still there's still like an ambient level of anxiety that something's coming.
30:32
And so I feel like you you do need to be prepared.
30:34
You can't write it off entirely.
30:36
But I'd be interested to hear about how you're thinking about uh the goals that you could even set around uh transitioning people through jobs.
30:46
How you think about the AI job relationship?
30:51
>> There's a couple of things I first the first thing is about AI education.
30:53
We have to prepare the future American worker to be able to fully leverage this technology when they enter the workforce.
31:01
The president signed an executive order in April of this year where he prioritized K- through2 AI education.
31:07
The first lady has gotten very excited about this endeavor.
31:09
We're running something called the AI presidential challenge which is a a challenge that we're uh rolling out across the entire country where we have students from all 50 states participating in it.
31:20
Um, and ultimately it's going to culminate in a in a uh sort of competition here at the White House and at the end of the school year where we can show kind of how students are using AI to solve some of the biggest challenges they face in their local >> like the presidential fitness.
31:32
I used to have to run a mile and touch my toes and now now you have to use AI.
31:38
>> You got to program some AI. Exactly.
31:39
[laughter] That's actually great.
31:40
That's >> presidential viol.
31:44
[laughter] But I do think it's important because at the end of the and I think I think the velocity of change that you see in how education is thinking about AI is so interesting to me.
31:54
It's kind of like you know if you guys even remember like 2 years ago when chat GPT first came out every university out there was essentially banning it.
32:00
You weren't allowed to use it.
32:02
You were like you know violating the honor code if you ever like turned on chat GPT and now there's no college student in the country that doesn't use it.
32:09
So I think that the the the the pace of change in how these models are being used in education is just so so dramatic and we have to get in front of it because you know what we think you know an eighth grader is going to be doing with AI when they enter the workforce.
32:23
You know it'd be very very hard to predict.
32:25
So what we try to do mostly in in the K through2 space is not necessarily teach kids how to leverage this technology but teach them about how the technology works.
32:33
The term that was used in the executive order was demystify.
32:37
Like teaching both children and teachers like where does it work well?
32:43
Where does it not work well?
32:44
Why is it answering questions like this? Why does it hallucinate?
32:46
Why does it not hallucinate in these cases?
32:47
You know, and I think the more people understand the technology they're dealing with, they'll be able to leverage it much much better no matter where they end up in the world. >> Yeah.
32:55
I I I absolutely love that because I feel like the uh I mean we we talked about this the GPT psychosis thing.
33:01
There's there's a very big difference between understanding that what you are chatting with is a robot is a bunch of math and just being mystified by it.
33:08
And the same thing with you know at some point every parent needs to teach their kids that uh hey the explosion in that movie they didn't actually blow up the house you know they didn't act that's a cartoon and now you al you also have to do that with AI generated images. Something I noticed. Yeah.
33:25
Uh this was a major AI related announcement.
33:28
Did not have a I searched command F for a dollar sign. Didn't find it.
33:32
Uh is that is that intentional?
33:36
Is that like part of part of your focus of hey the the the government can catalyze the right sort of like progress and activity without just being a a capital provider.
33:45
We've seen so many, you know, announcements from this year that are really just fixated on the biggest, you know, the biggest number.
33:53
And this feels like unlocking the sort of uh potential w within the the the existing uh ecosystem that's that's not being properly utilized. >> Yeah.
34:05
For the Genesis mission, I think Congress actually um appropriated some money to uh the Department of Energy this summer in some of the legislation that passed to to drive some of these AI related efforts.
34:14
and we've used that as kind of the down payment on kicking off this program.
34:18
I think what you're going to be seeing in the next couple weeks, which is which we're really excited about, is commitments from a number of large private sector players on what they are contributing and donating to the Genesis mission.
34:30
And I think what's key here is that what makes the American innovation ecosystem so unique is the ability for us to bring all piece and ecosystem together to drive innovation.
34:42
You have one part academia, one part private sector and one part federal government.
34:46
And the and the reason why and the feature about the US innovation system that allows us to be so successful and have been the home for the greatest scientific and technological breakthroughs for the last 200 years is that free market approach to innovation.
34:59
And I think that's what the genesis mission brings together and sort of highlights in the best way possible that we are in this together with all pieces of the ecosystem working together.
35:07
Uh there there's been a lot of worry about going too far, doing too much AI, too too aggressive about the build out, too much debt.
35:15
There was this uh back and forth about the backs stop.
35:19
Uh uh David Saxs of course said we're not considering that, but uh have you thought any more about how what the role of the government is in moderating the amount of uh of like sort of private sector AI buildout and how that should even interface with the government at all?
35:37
like what is the framework that we should be using?
35:40
>> I think we are very focused on removing federal barriers to folks that want to participate in the AI revolution.
35:48
And for us, what we see is that if private markets and if capital markets are allocating dollars in a direction that say like look, we believe that we will be needing this level of compute to drive our future AI demands.
36:02
We want to make sure that the bottleneck to that deployment isn't some federal rule around permitting and allowing these things to be built out.
36:11
I have faith in the way that the capital markets are allocating dollars right now and I leave it to those capital allocators to make the best decisions possible for that capital.
36:19
What we want to make sure is that like we are not an inhibitor to innovation that you know some arcane rules about you know how and when you can build some certain facility in a particular place are not the reason why the data center we really need isn't built out.
36:32
Um, and that's kind of that's the role that I think the federal government plays.
36:36
And one of the three executive orders the president signed the day that the action plan was was released was all about this.
36:41
How do we get the federal government out of the way to allow um the the build out of these as as quickly as possible? >> Yeah.
36:49
Um, what about the like going deeper in the stack?
36:52
Obviously, there's been news around Intel.
36:54
Um there there's a very rational uh reason to uh understand a pri prioritize uh you know having American control of the entire AI stack.
37:08
Um how how is your thinking evolved on uh just this idea of having a full control over the supply chain in America?
37:17
Is that something you're spending time on or you're thinking about or your thoughts have evolved on? >> We are.
37:22
I mean it's it's so critical.
37:22
um back to the great day in July when we signed all of our executive orders.
37:27
The the third executive order was all about exporting the American AI stack.
37:31
And I think, you know, if we rewind, you know, into Trump one when I was the the CTO of the United States at that time, one of the the challenges that I faced was traveling all around the world and trying to convince governments that they need to rip and replace their Huawei infrastructure.
37:50
And at that point, you know, I think there was a big lesson learned by me and by a lot of people who served in in 45 about, you know, what are lessons learned from that experience?
38:00
You know, in that moment, um the PRC had a technology that was good enough >> um and was priced very reasonably uh whether it was for a subsidy or who knows what, but it was priced reasonably enough where everyone wanted wanted it and ultimately was deployed for a big technological shift with 5G. Mhm.
38:19
>> Now if you fast forward to where we are today, this next phase of AI is orders of magnitude more important than the 5G roll out.
38:27
Right now it you know governments all around the world in year in a few in very few short years will all be running some sort of AI stack.
38:37
They will be having some sort of chips that will be running some sort of large language model and on top of it there'll be important critical national applications.
38:45
everything from the way that you know hospitals are running to to the way the tax is collected.
38:48
Um and and we want to make sure that the US is the partner of choice for that AI stack.
38:58
And right now we're at a great spot.
38:58
We have the very best chips in the world and we have lots of them.
39:03
We have the very best models in the world and we have a competitive ecosystem that it seems like every other week they're leaprogging each other and then on top of that we have the best applications in the world.
39:13
So we are so committed to exporting that stack.
39:16
exporting that stack. We want to create something that is so compelling and so exciting for governments and people all around the world that they will want to use our technology and that's what we are building here at the White House, our partners at the Commerce Department
39:28
and at the State Department to get that exported all over the world from South America to Africa to Asia to anyone who wants it because we believe that the same benefits that all Americans are going to realize because of our great technology we want to share that with the world. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Final question.
39:42
a little bit of a wild card.
39:44
I'm curious, are you thinking about uh uh humanoids as a category?
39:50
I've been really concerned that we're going to repeat what happened with DJI where we allowed a a uh a company to basically destroy our domestic industry and flood the country with uh cheap very good very good drones, but cheap drones.
40:06
Uh and I worry that uh you know, I think you can buy a Unitere on walmart. com right now.
40:11
It's not uh it's not a concern today, but if we allow the country to be flooded, uh I would be very concerned about it in the future, and I'm curious if it's on your mind at all.
40:23
>> It is actually, it's funny you say that.
40:25
We uh we we were just actually speaking about this week with a number of my of my colleagues.
40:29
I think the it is challenging.
40:31
challenging. I mean, there was a a a large um well-known uh uh top sort of shelf research university that uh I saw one of their one of their like magazines that they published and there was um and they were like advertising kind of how great they were and on the front of it
40:47
was like you know two unitry robots and I was like come on guys like honestly like we can do better as a country you know we we have been the home for bots dynamics for you know over over two decades and and I think to me this is an opportunity where where we should think about it in terms of the larger AI stack. And if you start building from
41:04
And if you start building from chips all the way up, you know, the ultimate manifestation of all this is where a lot of these ultimately robots play out.
41:12
It's this marrying of the physical infrastructure with with the digital itself.
41:17
And I think we need to do a lot more as a country to be able to propel that industry forward to make it economical for the adoption to happen.
41:25
And it goes back to something I talked about a little earlier.
41:26
It's a lot about trust, you know, and I think there's, you know, if you think about kind of the dynamics oftent times in the global marketplace, funny enough, the Europeans tend to be a lot more um a lot more quickly uh quick adopters or early adopters a lot of this technology just because of of the issues that that uh that that they have with some of their some of their workforce.
41:44
So I think for us we want to create an environment where we can build these robots into our economic growth plans here in the US and think very critically about the way that you know we want safe, secure and trusted technology used by Americans in America.
41:58
And if we see you know foreign companies um that are not you know safe, trusted and secure and are compromised there's lots of tools that we have um in in our arsenal to to to protect our ecosystem from it.
42:09
And the US government for for example banned DJI for use by by the federal government.
42:14
And there's lots of other examples like that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Actually, last question. Do you fish?
42:19
What's the biggest fish you've ever caught?
42:21
We'd like to ask that to everyone that joins the show.
42:24
>> Oh man, I thought that was coming.
42:24
I I actually do not fish.
42:26
So, if you guys ever want to take me fishing, I I haven't either.
42:30
So, we can we can go together and and uh figure it out on the fly. >> Yeah. Yeah.
42:35
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come talk to us in your busy day.
42:38
Congratulations on the Genesis mission.
42:40
We're very excited for this and uh have a great uh Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. >> Happy Thanksgiving. >> You guys, too.
42:45
Let's do this again soon. >> See you. Absolutely. Goodbye. >> Cheers.
42:49
>> Let me tell you about Profound.
42:49
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42:50
Reach millions of consumers who use AI to discover new products and brands.
42:54
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42:58
Build from first principles and object storage.
43:02
Fast, 10x cheaper, and extremely scalable.
43:04
Uh founder mode is right.
43:04
We have Sebastian from CLA in the Reream waiting room.
43:08
We're going to bring him in to the TVP and Ultradome. How are you doing?
43:12
Good to >> see you again.
43:12
The last time it's been too long.
43:14
>> The last time we hung out, it was just another it was just another day at work for you.
43:18
You just stopped by nice.
43:18
You you did your IPO and you jetted back home. Yes.
43:23
>> But it's great to it's great to be back. >> Yeah.
43:25
First, kick us off with a review.
43:27
What's it been like being a public company CEO for a couple months now?
43:32
Um well we we said to ourselves on the management team like we're never going to watch the stock price never ever [laughter] and then and then every day I was like what why did it go up? him.
43:41
And then and then somebody like came to us guys just like put yourself next to all the other stock and like oh yeah it's moving the same way. Got it. Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. It wasn't just us. >> Yeah. Makes sense.
43:50
Uh well big news uh uh on Tuesday uh today.
43:54
Uh please uh break it down for us. What what's the news? Uh, no.
44:01
I think it's, you know, I think I was, it's kind of funny because I, like about a year ago, I was like giving crypto a second chance.
44:08
I was always like, >> you know, I was a little bit of the on the skeptic side over the years.
44:12
And partially it's because like I always my Lakmos test is like, how is this going to help my mom, right?
44:17
And um, >> and as much as like I'm get excited about like financial revolution, you know, kill the central banks or whatever.
44:24
Sorry, I shouldn't have said that.
44:25
I'm going to read quote um you know bring financial liberty to the world. That's the way.
44:30
Um and those things u the point is that like that doesn't get my mom much excited.
44:34
She's like what >> can I just pay cheaper or can this be faster?
44:39
Like she doesn't really care that much about >> the noise in the industry was insane.
44:41
I mean it was so many uh just regulatory arbitrage moments.
44:46
so much uh just like fraud and grift and also just like pumps and dumps and all sorts of just like memes and things that weren't outright frauds but had just like >> but the potential was always there.
44:58
>> but the potential was always there. It was always a little bit because then the technology was always there was and I'm sure I I imagine like what like uh I I'd love to understand how you how your thinking evolved on stable coins over time because back in 2021 >> what happened was some close friends of mine called Sequoa said like Sebastian you really have to take a second look at
45:22
[laughter] this and um and I was like okay fine um I'll do it and they introduced me to some amazing founders uh among among them um bridge >> that we now partner with um and so I gave it a second chance and I listened to the stories and I realized yeah okay so I've been wrong uh technology has now moved ahead it's now fast it's now efficient it actually solves real uh real problems
45:46
>> and so we and then I wrote that on X and I was like nobody's going to care because we're like we're the last fintech in the world like it's not going to make any news >> but it was surprising like I think over over a million people uh views on IC on that post and and since then we've been just working hard on like how do we integrate this into our stack and what can we do and today we announced that we're doing the CLA stable coin
46:08
>> uh which is one of many things which we're doing with bridge and tempo which is uh you know together with stripe and the team over there so um so that's really exciting uh but obviously you know there's more to come it's just that like we're we're testing the waters and trying trying out what will work for us >> so yeah walk me through uh what the first few implementation points look like. Uh if I'm going and I'm paying and
46:30
Uh if I'm going and I'm paying and I'm on a checkout page.
46:33
Uh right now I can check out with CLA.
46:36
Uh at what point do I actually interact with CLA coin the stable coin?
46:43
Uh when does it actually come into the workflow?
46:45
come into the workflow? So, so far the the start of this actually is just that like um we obviously want to bring these services uh to the benefit of our consumers and in their dayto-day you know using of cloner >> I mean we have a big neo bank ambition
47:00
right and u we have over 100 million users worldwide but most of them will only use us for a single transaction um thank you h sometimes it's like you know a lot of those buy now but actually over 20% of them are debit where people pay the full amount as well so it's it's pizza mix. Um, and now we're trying, you
47:16
Um, and now we're trying, you know, to we're trying to offer ourselves more advanced services, more neo bank services, right? So, we have our card. Uh, it's pretty cool.
47:26
Like, you know, we are now 3 million active card holders.
47:27
A quarter ago, we had zero in the US. So, exactly.
47:33
I'm going to drop a lot of numbers.
47:34
I'm going to get a lot of beeps.
47:35
Um, so, um, so [snorts] that was like, uh, so that's been great.
47:38
Uh, but obviously we want to add peerto-peer.
47:41
We want to add the ability to send money and so forth.
47:44
And then we've been looking at different solutions.
47:45
But but but what's interesting I think here is that like even though that's the natural next step of you know offering uh using stable coin for that because it's a very efficient way to send money fast and uh at at low cost.
47:59
at at low cost. Um we also uh actually realized that look I mean we're processing over $und00 billion worth of volume every year and we move ourselves quite large money between the US and Europe and so forth and this may actually be very efficient even for our treasury department to use as a way to
48:17
to move money right so we've seen that there's a tremendous number of use cases maybe more than we realized when we started looking into it that's exciting and that can drive you know anything that obviously drives our efficiency will also allow us to offer services at lower cost and more value to our customers. So
48:31
So >> can you break down specifically what's happening at each kind of level of the stack?
48:37
So you have bridge which is from my understanding the infrastructure that you're using to actually issue the token.
48:45
Then you have tempo which is the blockchain in which you'll be moving it around on is that and then and then you have obviously the the product layer which is the interface that consumers will use to uh move around. Is it USDK? What what is the ticker? >> I think it's USDK.
49:03
I think you described it pretty well. I was like, thank you. That's a good summary.
49:06
I'm not >> Yeah, because I'm just Yeah, trying to understand.
49:09
And then you also have there's a corporate treasury use case where you could you're saying you could use the same uh token internally as well. >> Yeah. I mean, yes, exactly.
49:18
I think also then people discuss a bit on the merchant side but but the truth is that we mostly today uh distribute through stripe and aden and the big PSB.
49:27
So most of the kind of merchant relationship happens directly with them.
49:32
So to us it's mostly what we can do on the consumer side.
49:34
But I think there's more opportunities.
49:36
I mean this is just like again people like oh why did you do it this way and not that way and why didn't you use Salana or Ethereum and why didn't you you know whatever and what about Bitcoin and so forth.
49:43
And to me it's like yeah but come on this was just like one first thing that we now announced and obviously we are working on more things and we want to utilize these technologies to more use cases and we have more things but we are not yet yet to announce them and u and talk about them. So more to come. >> Fantastic.
50:02
Uh last question from my side.
50:04
Um who who do you think is or what you don't need to say a name of a company but like uh what what type of uh uh what type of player in the financial industry loses out most if stable coins really take uh off?
50:24
It feels like at a certain point we're just shifting take rates around.
50:29
Uh there's a lot of different transfer services that could benefit a lot from higher speeds and lower fees.
50:34
Seems like consumers could benefit a lot.
50:36
But do traditional payment rails suffer? Do government suffer?
50:40
Like what what category really needs to be on their back foot right now?
50:47
>> To me, it's really and I actually talked about this a little bit on our earnings calls as well is that I actually think like to me I I put the whole crypto thing in this wider AI uh change that's about to happen, right?
50:57
And if you if you look about it, both Finn and tech have been extremely inefficient market.
51:02
>> Uh which is why you've seen the excesses in profits and excesses in you know as I as I quoted there like you know the gourmia cafeterias used to be called culture and now they're going to be called overhead.
51:14
The point is that like there's been this huge success because there hasn't really been that strong competition.
51:20
And why has there been lack of competition?
51:22
of competition? goes back to kind of classical microeconomical theory which states that if it's hard to compare two products if it's if you know too many illegal terms they're hard to understand and so forth then people will be fooled and will take products that are less good for them right and AI and new
51:37
technologies brings a fantastic amount of transparency you can just ask compare these insuranceances compares these banking products what is the best one compare these credit products which one is actually the best one for me right so that's going to change the second thing is the major one which is very connected to crypto is switching costs. >> So the big reason banking isn't more
51:55
>> So the big reason banking isn't more competitive is simply because it's such a hassle to move, >> you know, like I want to bring all my stuff from this bank to that bank. Yeah.
52:05
>> And and people just don't have that energy, right?
52:06
Like people don't have that energy and all the accounts and the salary coming in and all that stuff, right?
52:11
>> So what happening is with technologies like crypto with AI and the and the combination of that, what you're going to see is you're going to see switching costs coming down to almost zero, right?
52:21
it's just going to be much easier to move between different services and it's just going to put this massive competitive pressure on this industry.
52:26
I mean, um, financial services make over four $500 billion in profit.
52:32
That's the profit pool that we're after.
52:34
Uh, and then tech and advertising and tech is another, you know, $500 billion.
52:38
That's a trillion dollars in in um profit pool.
52:44
And so what I think is going to happen is you you just like if you are willing to be customer obsessed uh efficient you know and with efficiency operational efficiency crypto plays a role because it can help you be much more efficient.
52:57
You can move faster at lower cost and so forth.
52:59
Then the players who take the advantage of these technologies are going to make a massive dent.
53:03
And the the benefit I believe and you can call me naive or you can call me you know optimist but like I believe that the value of this is all these excess profits that we see in banking they're going to come back to consumers.
53:18
>> Uh they're just going to make consumers are going to pay less for higher quality services and some financial institutions will lean in and they will transform themselves and they will be more customer obsessed.
53:27
There will be less marble offices, less beautiful, you know, buildings and all that stuff.
53:30
And there will be more of just like waking up every morning just like a restaurant or any other business for the sake where you actually wake up every morning, you're like, how do I bring my customers in?
53:41
How do I make them happy?
53:41
And how do I run my business so I'm operationally efficient, right?
53:45
And that's a huge difference.
53:47
And I think crypto plays a role in that.
53:48
So I think that's what's coming for Finn and tech.
53:50
And if you're willing to be that customer obsessed and run those operational efficiencies and be smart and use these technologies, there's obviously tons of opportunity of growth and and and you can build trust with your customer base.
54:02
But if you're going to sit there and still continue making the kind of profits you are today and think that nothing's going to change, well eventually you'll wake up, right?
54:10
Just like you know whatever airlines did when lowcost airlines came in or you know we've seen this over and over again or like carriers when the low cost carrier things came in like it's it's happened before, right? >> Yep. >> Absolutely.
54:21
Uh well, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us.
54:23
Uh we will talk to you soon.
54:23
Have a great rest of your day. >> You got the update. Good to see you. Talk soon.
54:30
>> Uh before we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about public.
54:31
com investing for those who take it seriously.
54:34
They got multiasset investing and they're trusted by millions.
54:36
I'm also going to tell you about numeral. com.
54:39
Let numero worry about sales tax and VAT compliance.
54:42
Compliance handled so you can focus on growth.
54:45
We have David from One Password in the reream waiting room.
54:50
Now he's in the TBP TBPN open. Welcome to the stream.
54:52
We have a big update for you.
54:55
Since you came on the show last time, we onboarded the whole team onto one password.
55:02
>> John and I were we were using it individually.
55:03
There were some pass passwords being stored in the notes app. We corrected that. >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
55:10
>> I'm glad I was able to shame you into uh into into action there. So that's >> Yeah.
55:14
This is real like customer development, getting your hands dirty, rolling up your sleeves.
55:17
You go on the podcast with 10 employees and you physically tell them, "Download my app." And it worked. It worked. It worked.
55:25
You can't [laughter] >> one customer at a time.
55:27
Thank Thank you again for your trust both with your business and your uh and your personal license.
55:32
>> Yeah, we we're we're very happy.
55:32
Uh it's been a huge upgrade and I I I think it's going to sail uh to being a you know, valued piece of infrastructure in this organization for many years.
55:40
Um, but we're also very excited that uh you're you've been on a tear.
55:45
Your business is doing better than ever.
55:47
Uh, give us a little update.
55:49
What what's new in your world? >> Yeah.
55:51
So, uh, you know, we we had a little announcement just to refresh some of the statistics of the business.
55:54
So, uh, a couple weeks ago.
55:56
So, we are um, uh, over $400 million of ARR and we're >> Whoa. There you go. >> Love it. >> A spinning head. >> Spinning head. >> We've done that.
56:06
We've grown to that level profitably all the way from inception, which [music] is really cool.
56:10
you know, durable growth profile and we continue to be very profitable.
56:13
Uh we now we're known as a consumer app for for a long time, but now nearly 80% of our business is selling to business customers. Yeah.
56:22
>> Uh 180,000 business customers use the product.
56:24
180,000 in one now because of you guys. So, thank you for that.
56:28
>> Um and uh you know, we support over 1.
56:28
3 billion credentials that are that are managed in our system.
56:32
Uh and we have you know, over a million developers using the product.
56:36
So, you know, we feel really good about uh the the trajectory that we've been on.
56:40
We've also in that announcement, we also announced that we've um we've added to the team.
56:43
So, we've got new leaders driving the ecosystem and and the revenue side of the business, enhanced the the tech side as well.
56:51
We're really just setting ourselves up for the next chapter here.
56:54
And, you know, as we chatted last time when when we were together, uh we just see the opportunity around AI is really something significant for us and we're going all in.
57:02
Yeah, I want to talk about that because uh it feels like there's is there a fight coming because uh credential management on the uh developer tool chain side the API keys that's traditionally been a completely separate industry, a completely separate, you know, I don't even know if you guys run into each other at industry conferences.
57:22
It feels like a very different world.
57:24
One's a developer tool, one's a consumer tool that you use with your family, then maybe you wind up using it at work.
57:29
Um there's single sign on, there's all sorts of different ways to to manage um credentials.
57:33
Um how much are they blurring?
57:37
How quickly is this happening?
57:39
Um how are you thinking about setting yourself up for the world where I mean Schulto from Anthropic was on the show yesterday saying we're creating a co-orker >> digital co-orker >> sounds like a digital co-orker needs some passwords every once in a while.
57:51
How are they going to get it? >> Absolutely.
57:53
>> Absolutely. I think you know the traditional identity systems that have been siloed and and and sort of different parts of the pretzel and really hardwired in a big enterprises over the over years they don't really they're not set up to support this federated dynamic environment where applications spring up and agents need
58:08
access that are very very specifically uh scoped to what they're trying to accomplish and then they need to be sort of tracked and managed and many times revoked and so that system of identity and access management really doesn't exist and we're in really good position to support that and we're doing a bunch of things already to help people use AI tools uh securely. I'll give you a
58:26
I'll give you a couple examples.
58:28
Uh so we were a launch partner with Perplexity's Comet browser.
58:32
I'm not sure if you've seen that, but then shortly thereafter uh OpenAI and Chachi BT Atlas came out and uh immediately both they and we got besieged by a customer saying I need to be able to use one password with Atlas and it.
58:44
We got on the phone with them and we we started working together with them and quickly we made uh one password available as a browser extension on on Atlas with a little bit of a workaround.
58:54
And then just today we announced the release of a fully optimized you know uh onboarding experience optimized for the the the workflow experience and the Atlas browser as well.
59:03
And so what we learned is like look customers they want to use these tools but they want to be able to use them safely and securely and they want to be able to have trust.
59:10
So that's what we've always been about is bringing that trust to the table.
59:13
And so we'll be wherever our customers need to be.
59:17
Last time we were talking about the headless browsers around browser base, but like with Perplexity and Atlas, you know, our customers want to be able to use these tools without having to give their credentials over in raw form.
59:27
So that's one as aspect of it.
59:28
The other is what's really interesting is, you know, we're moving from uh applications being developed by software engineers to being developed by everybody.
59:38
And it's amazing how much of the agentic applications that are being created are not necessarily by by software developers. And so it's great. It's very powerful.
59:48
The whole organization can figure out ways to leverage it.
59:49
But again, if you need API keys to be part of the, you know, in in the environment that you're you're building or SSH keys, you you need to be able to actually have those things secured.
59:58
And so our developer tools, they sync with AWS secrets manager at runtime.
1:00:03
Uh they allow you to to put a pointer to uh environment file that tools that we build.
1:00:07
so that your credentials are always encrypted, end to end, uh fully traceable, fully revocable.
1:00:14
And so that's the beginning of what you'll see.
1:00:16
And then, you know, where we're going from here, you know, discovery of agents, uh uh governance around it.
1:00:22
How does it interact with the observability systems?
1:00:23
There's a whole green field of things there that we're really well positioned to participate in and really help define the standards.
1:00:30
So, you know, we're going for it.
1:00:30
It's it's a very exciting time.
1:00:33
>> How are you thinking about uh resiliency?
1:00:34
Do you have any tips for folks building uh you know missionritical systems these days?
1:00:38
It feels like uh we were fighting an outage with AWS at one point. Cloudflare went down.
1:00:45
Uh we don't have nearly the resources that you do, I'm sure.
1:00:48
Uh but what tips and strategies have you used because I feel like you're definitely going to hear if uh one password goes down, right? >> Yeah.
1:00:58
You know, look, we we um we are Cloudare Flare customer uh right?
1:01:01
So we we our marketing site was down our service wasn't down.
1:01:05
So you know we're using you know obviously uh redundancy and and failover procedures and we've got you know we we come from a security centric approach.
1:01:15
That's probably what's differentiated us from a lot of the other players in the space like security is job one and job 10 and like nothing else matters until we're sure that uh everything we're doing is the utmost security.
1:01:28
So we've got a lot of resilience built into the way we do it.
1:01:31
But I think just generally people need to be aware like it the threat profile is so much more hostile than it's ever been and it's going to get a lot worse.
1:01:39
I'm sure you did a bunch of of work on on the the disclosure that Anthropic put out around that.
1:01:44
And it's not just I mean Anthropic uh you know as you know they they have like nation state level security you know enforcement.
1:01:51
They have like bunkers and all kinds of stuff that they got to worry about right because they're they're you know hugely a big target.
1:01:58
But but it's not just the biggest guys anymore.
1:01:59
It's really anybody can be a target because you can do really sophisticated social engineering at scale with almost no effort at this point and it's going to get worse and worse and worse.
1:02:08
So the number one thing that people, you know, will expose is is weak credentials.
1:02:12
It's it's another really good spot for us.
1:02:17
Like the credent credential hygiene is more important than ever.
1:02:19
So whether it's you're using Atlas and you're a one password customer, great.
1:02:22
Make sure it's connected.
1:02:23
If you're not a one password customer, you should go get it if you want to use Atlas, right? Right?
1:02:26
And if you're a developer and you're building an application and you're not and you're hard- coding credentials or SSH keys, etc. into files, don't do it.
1:02:33
Get a one password license. Super easy to use. Keeps you secure.
1:02:37
Keep everything ever locked up.
1:02:39
And you know, we'll maybe we'll get another new customer out of this. >> Love it.
1:02:43
>> Uh what's your timeline to a point in time where the average American on let's say a weekly basis will be sending an agent out to do something for them.
1:02:53
and the agent uh needing to actually utilize the you know like actual login infrastructure of the user.
1:03:02
I'm talking about the imagining the workflow where my agent's doing something and I get a maybe a one password push notification that's or I don't know exactly how the workflow would work but saying uh hey uh I want to do this do you approve it or not and then I hit like yes like basically authorize the agent.
1:03:19
So that's exactly what's happening with browser base for example right in the headless browsers that we're doing exactly low friction uh user verification uh so that allows you to keep things secured look we're seeing tremendous uptick on the you know Atlas was a really was enlightening to see how many people are actually trying to sort of utilize the browser and have it do things on its behalf.
1:03:40
Uh certainly uh the other partnerships we've had, we're so early days on it.
1:03:43
Uh but I think where we're going to hit this inflection point where people realize I mean I'm starting to see how valuable in both my professional and personal life the tools can be and just shortening my day.
1:03:54
And obviously, you know, I want to make sure I'm doing it securely.
1:03:57
I think most people are going to be in that mode before we know it.
1:04:00
And so we just want to make sure we're available for our our customers when they when those moments come so that they can do so securely. >> Last question.
1:04:09
What's the biggest fish you've ever caught?
1:04:10
[laughter] >> Well, I'm more of a fly I'm more I enjoy fly fishing more than I do like deep sea fishing.
1:04:17
You know, getting sick on a big boat and hauling water.
1:04:20
>> Deep sea fishing is the is the ultimate hack if you just want to catch the biggest fish, right?
1:04:23
It's not just a boat, somebody else catches it and you >> Yeah, my son My son prefers fly fishing.
1:04:30
So, I I fly He likes to catch a big bass.
1:04:33
>> And where where is the best fly fishing spot?
1:04:35
You know, I like Montana and Utah. >> Utah. You like Utah? >> Utah and Montana.
1:04:41
Utah fish are a little smaller.
1:04:42
Montana a little bit bigger, but um you know, two two really good spots.
1:04:45
And uh you know, just just you know, >> we're going to become we're not we're never going to leave this building, but we're going to become fishing experts.
1:04:53
We're never actually going to but just through asking every guest a little bit more about this be a fishing show. >> I like it. I like it. >> Get yourself a guide.
1:05:00
Go on a fly fishing trip. Take a take a weekend. Go to Montana. You'll you'll love it.
1:05:03
Thank you so much for coming on the show. Happy day. We'll talk to you soon.
1:05:09
>> Let me tell you about Vanta automate compliance and security.
1:05:11
Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform.
1:05:16
>> One thing one thing that's cool uh back in 2019 uh one password raised from Excel >> and when they announced it they said Excel will be investing 200 million for minority stake in one password.
1:05:28
And you don't you don't see that like positioning a lot, but uh I mean it was a very minority stake obviously.
1:05:35
They they put in >> uh they put in about 200 I think at uh >> Mhm.
1:05:43
>> Um was it 200 on one or two billion?
1:05:46
But anyways, um absolute beast of a business.
1:05:51
>> Well, up next we have Keller uh from Zipline.
1:05:53
We're very excited to talk to him. There's some big news. >> The eagle himself. >> Yeah, get that ready.
1:05:57
Uh, first I'm going to tell you about Figma.
1:05:59
Think bigger, build faster.
1:06:00
Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
1:06:04
And there's someone who built a great product with lots of talented individuals.
1:06:09
[music] Keller from Zipline.
1:06:11
We'll bring him in as soon as he ready yet.
1:06:13
We can go over >> We can go to the timeline.
1:06:18
>> Yeah, we have a post here.
1:06:18
Uh, somehow No, I'm going to jump >> where you're going. Okay.
1:06:22
Somehow uh uh David Yulovich, former guest of the show, said, "Turns out huge swaths of the BS on this platform that claims to be from the US is all foreign."
1:06:33
>> And then this uh quoted and somehow the A16Z account is based in Canada.
1:06:36
I really don't I really don't know how this this is actually possible.
1:06:41
I want to see if it's been updated.
1:06:44
>> I did check all of her accounts and I think we've been marked safe.
1:06:46
Uh I haven't I haven't checked actually most of the team. Tyler, I don't know. Maybe secretly.
1:06:52
>> I just know so many I have so many friends at Andre and I don't know how.
1:06:56
>> Why does Tyler >> I don't know.
1:06:57
None of them are Canadian.
1:06:58
>> Why does Tyler's account say it's based in North Korea? I don't understand that. >> I know.
1:07:02
>> Have you been to Pyongyang recently?
1:07:02
Is that where you're going over the [laughter] holidays? Yeah. You said you're leaving. This is misinfo.
1:07:08
>> He goes, "Oh, I have a dentist appointment.
1:07:10
I can't come in tomorrow." >> A little touch base. >> Yes. Yes.
1:07:14
Um what uh what what what happened with this uh uh uh meta uh whistleblower system uh situation?
1:07:22
I don't >> Adamell says I'd love to see TV right now fear come back to this but we have our guest here.
1:07:32
So we will bring in Keller from Zipline.
1:07:36
>> Welcome to the show from the floor. >> Fantastic setup.
1:07:38
Best comms team in the game. >> Good to see you.
1:07:42
[laughter] How are you guys? >> We're fantastic. Uh you look great.
1:07:45
Uh give us give us some updates.
1:07:48
G give us uh uh what is the latest news in your world.
1:07:53
Uh very excited for everything that we've been seeing on the timeline.
1:07:57
I want to go into all the jokes about uh what what what happens if you shoot one of these down.
1:08:01
But first, let's get the serious update.
1:08:02
Let's get the serious questions out of the way.
1:08:06
>> I mean, yeah, there's a ton going on.
1:08:07
And the thing we announced today is that Zipline just signed a $150 million contract with the US state of um yeah guys, [laughter] you know, to uh triple the size of our uh life-saving autonomous delivery network across Africa.
1:08:23
We're going to go from serving about 5,000 hospitals and health facilities to over 15,000.
1:08:28
We'll add about 130 million people to the network who don't have access today.
1:08:33
And the last cool thing about that is that that 150 million comes with up to $400 million of co-inancing commitments from the African governments themselves.
1:08:43
So, you know, this is not this is not uh >> just straight on the tax. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Exactly.
1:08:49
This is actually like encouraging investment in this kind of infrastructure. >> Yeah.
1:08:53
So, was this was this delayed because of the USID pullback?
1:08:55
There's been a lot of like back and forth on how much the US would be investing internationally.
1:09:01
Uh what would be happening?
1:09:03
Has the dust kind of settled there and there's now time to actually go do a partnership like you just did?
1:09:08
What's the kind of state of the union?
1:09:11
>> Yeah, I mean you know obviously uh earlier this year that was like the first phase of a big shift in terms of how the US is interacting with uh developing economies and I think this new vision that's now being talked about by the state department of commercial diplomacy. >> Sure.
1:09:26
>> The whole idea is let's not you know let's not treat these countries as charity cases.
1:09:30
Let's actually treat them as allies and trade partners.
1:09:32
And the good news is these countries have been saying for a decade that they want trade, not aid.
1:09:37
They're sick of low-quality services provided for free by NOS's.
1:09:41
What they want instead is high-paying jobs, entrepreneurship, uh technology.
1:09:46
And the thing is like that's what the US has to offer.
1:09:48
You know, like we can uh we can deploy AI and robotics infrastructure into these countries in a way that will save lives and kind of turbocharge their economies.
1:09:57
So, uh, 150 million from the US State Department matched with 400 million from the partners internationally.
1:10:04
Uh, 10,000 health facilities.
1:10:07
How many actual drones is that?
1:10:09
How are you actually thinking about scaling your like what does this allow you to do?
1:10:13
Are you going to be staffing up, hiring tons of people?
1:10:16
Is it just build another factory?
1:10:17
Is it a dedicated factory?
1:10:19
Like, walk me through how you plan to actually use this money over the however long you're planning to work on this particular uh growth uh initiative.
1:10:28
Yeah, I mean look, in a way this is coming at the worst possible time because as you guys know, the US business is growing really, really fast.
1:10:37
>> We're in the middle of I'm here.
1:10:39
>> Yeah, I'm here on the manufacturing floor.
1:10:41
I mean you can see like doc electronics happening over here platform 2 zip manufacturing and then if we were to go straight behind the camera right now we're just opening up a new 100,000 square feet of manufacturing facility that'll produce both uh the platform 2 technology as well as accelerate manufacturing for this specific contract.
1:11:00
um the you know we we're in total this manufacturing facility is capable of building about 20,000 autonomous aircraft uh a year and it's all happening in South San Francisco.
1:11:12
So this is kind of this is the cool part of this um compact which is that you know this is not just a big deal for all these African countries that are now leading the world in terms of deploying autonomous infrastructure to save lives.
1:11:25
It's also really good for the US because we are sort of securing US technology and manufacturing leadership for the decade to come.
1:11:31
This is creating high-paying jobs in the US and it's accelerating um all of our manufacturing efforts here. >> Okay.
1:11:39
Uh let's shift to what's actually going on here.
1:11:41
Uh you know, we've we've seen the initial partnerships that have rolled out.
1:11:46
uh what have you learned most recently about or what has surprised you about uh the the actual application of the technology, the adoption, like where are the underrated use cases beyond the the meme that I'm sure will follow you forever, which is the the private jet for your burrito.
1:12:03
[laughter] So, get ready for that one to be around forever.
1:12:05
I mean, we just had Sebastian from Clara on and he and his entire, you know, business, which serves all sorts of different customer bases has collapsed to uh buy now pay later for your burrito because they did a partnership with >> burritos are powerful.
1:12:19
I think it's actually a bullish indicator if your business is getting burrito me'd. >> It is. It is.
1:12:25
Uh but but yes, uh where do you see the shape of the US business going?
1:12:29
Uh where are the exciting developments these days?
1:12:31
I mean, look, you know, on uh you know, Saturday, Zipline hit an all all-time new record number of deliveries across the US.
1:12:38
Then on Sunday, we blew that record out of the water by 10 or 15%.
1:12:42
Uh so, you know, it's like every day is basically a new record at this point as a company.
1:12:47
Um I would say the most interesting things are it's it feels as though we accidentally like stuck a pipe into the Pacific Ocean.
1:12:55
like demand is so vastly outstripping our ability to build capacity for this kind of service.
1:13:00
And keep in mind, I mean, right now, you know, we deliver products in 2 to 3 minutes.
1:13:07
So, even from like when a customer presses a button to have something delivered to their uh front yard or backyard or front doorstep is typically around 15 16 minutes.
1:13:15
And so, it is very magically fast.
1:13:18
That results in customers changing their ordering behavior.
1:13:23
Like, you know, a lot of our customers say they'll grocery shop once a week and then they'll order from Zipline three to four times a week.
1:13:27
So, people are using Zipline more than the average Amazon Prime subscriber uses Amazon Prime.
1:13:34
And not only that, but one of the big changes just since, you know, I was last on with you guys is that a lot of these restaurants are really accelerating.
1:13:42
We're now doing 15 to 25% of deliveries from these restaurants that we've integrated with.
1:13:48
So we are similar size on a per delivery basis to the big delivery platforms.
1:13:53
And so I think you know maybe people still think oh the technology is like sci-fi.
1:13:57
It's like years away and it's it's funny sitting here thinking like wow I mean this is like completely normal in the neighborhoods that we are uh that we're serving.
1:14:08
>> Talk about the actual experience of getting let's say items from a restaurant. We had David Chang on.
1:14:12
He was excited about uh drone delivery and the technology.
1:14:17
tweeted at you guys and I we're going to we're going to we're going to try to get we're going to try to deliver for him in Dallas. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:14:22
And and specifically he was saying he didn't think it would solve the the uh like delivering something hot from my point of view if I'm used to getting something in 20 25 minutes and then you deliver it in 3 minutes like that feels like it will be a material improvement.
1:14:39
So, I I I wasn't I didn't quite understand what what his point was, but what's the actual experience been like for people and and what what's kind of the average uh speed up in terms of delivery times that you're seeing?
1:14:53
>> I didn't really understand what David was saying either.
1:14:54
Um but look, like the you know, our comm's team hates when I talk about this, [laughter] but you know, like one of the first uh food deliveries we did, the customer badly burned their tongue on the food. >> Okay.
1:15:07
Yeah, I can see why they don't like this.
1:15:08
And I heard >> that's the restaurant's fault.
1:15:10
They serve food at a dangerous temperature. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:15:14
It's kind of a bad like no actually we should make this like a core part of the marketing.
1:15:17
Like that is crazy that customers are so not used.
1:15:21
They're so used to getting like fries that are 45 minutes old and like ice cold and soggy and gross and food that tastes bad and milkshakes that are melted and we just put up with this man.
1:15:32
Like we're completely used to it.
1:15:34
And and so, you know, I really think this is going to, you know, in the same way that maybe David's expectations are going to get kind of reversed, like it's totally happening with all the customers when you can get something delivered and there's only, you know, two or three minutes from when the thing comes out of the oven to when it is delivered to your front doorstep.
1:15:50
Um, that is a way different customer experience.
1:15:53
I think actually people are underestimating the difference in the quality of that experience.
1:16:00
Like food tastes really good.
1:16:02
It's almost like you're having an in restaurant experience at home. >> I wonder.
1:16:06
So, I remember when the delivery uh when the delivery boom happened and all of a sudden people were ordering way more food and it was really like a TAM expander, there were obviously uh ways to get delivery.
1:16:18
You could order a pizza 30 years ago on the phone. They would deliver it.
1:16:22
Uh but when it became an app and the market expanded so dramatically and people were starting to, you know, Door Dash and Uber Eatats like every night, lots of people did this.
1:16:30
night, lots of people did this. the market grew and it actually changed the nature of our food and we got ghost kitchens and we got these funny knockoffs like there's in LA there's sugarf fish and then I saw one that was like sweet it's like they they will
1:16:43
deliberately try and change the names as close as possible and you get these like kind of restaurants that only exist because of the new technology and I'm wondering what you think of the impact uh if there will be a change in the nature of the food or the nature of the
1:16:58
restaurants just because the uh the the the delivery time goes down or because of the shape of the box like if you can't do a massive you know six foot pizza maybe you know some smaller pro products like emerge is like the dominant form factor and and the restaurants that conform first >> six foot pizza John
1:17:18
>> I don't know the size of this table [laughter] I don't know yeah I I you know I the the kids birthdays you you see those the big it's not six feet it's not six feet but you get my point uh you know will there be restaurants that are like, okay, we're going all in on Zipline. We're thinking about developing
1:17:31
We're thinking about developing meals from First Principles that fit for the best possible experience on the Zipline platform, and then that becomes like a new thing that actually changes our culinary experience.
1:17:44
>> I mean, I, you know, I'm not an expert, but I I have a bunch of like hypotheses and I mean, I would say a couple things.
1:17:52
First of all, I actually think we have to do a ton of, you know, design of the food now to make it work for a system that is going to deliver the food 45 minutes later and ice cold, you know, and like and also there's a lot of innovation that has to go into the packaging because I don't know if you're familiar, but like 60% of food delivery drivers report eating some of the food that they delivered in the last 30 days.
1:18:13
So, we're like doing all the temp like hopefully over the month. Not 60% of every time. Over a month. Not 60% every time. Over a month.
1:18:24
>> They're like, but only when it's only when it's really good.
1:18:26
Only when it's really good.
1:18:27
Only when it's at my top five favorite restaurants. >> One one fry.
1:18:30
One piece of >> Sorry if I'm sorry if I'm ruining it for anybody, but like you know, so we have to innovate on like tamperproof packaging.
1:18:37
We have to figure out like safety and we have to figure out reliability and like you know some percentage of um things just get picked up and then never delivered and a lot of things actually like the driver will accept the order but then actually just never show up at the restaurant then they have to throw out the food remake it again.
1:18:50
So you know I think there's a ton of inefficiency and cost in the system that people just don't think about but you do end up paying for in fees and you know all the crazy fees that get added on top plus tip.
1:19:00
I think another big thing that's going to change is that, you know, this technology is designed to be able to fly out to 10 mile a 10 mile radius.
1:19:08
And typically, it's not cost effective to deliver something with a car more than like three or four miles.
1:19:14
And so that means again it differs on by metro and where we're talking about, but like that means that these kinds of systems for any given restaurant, you're going to enable about 10 times as many customers to receive instant delivery from that location. That's a big deal.
1:19:27
And it's a bigger deal actually for like mom and pop restaurants or kind of local heroes versus a really big chain like Chipotle that actually has a ton of stores.
1:19:36
And so I think you know especially when you think about a place like LA for example where you have a lot of these different parts of the city that are hard to reach, traffic is terrible.
1:19:44
You know it can take an hour plus to get delivery of food.
1:19:49
um you know this technology is going to be like transformational and you can deliver a lot of like the best most beloved kind of local hero brands and make it universally accessible.
1:19:58
By the way on the universally accessible front you know some of the cities we're serving in Dallas right now I mean just one city that I was looking at the statistics for yesterday 46% of homes are ordering from zipline. >> Whoa.
1:20:11
>> In that city and so I think people don't appreciate Yeah. Exactly.
1:20:14
I thought it was like a map error when I looked.
1:20:15
Uh, you know, people talk about startups getting like 2% market share, 5% market [laughter] share.
1:20:21
It's like Zipline in a few weeks, Zipline will literally have the majority of homes in our service area [laughter] ordering from the service and that is like that's not a joke. >> How are you?
1:20:29
So, so clearly clearly it's working.
1:20:33
Clearly customers like it.
1:20:35
>> There's an insane amount of demand.
1:20:35
How are you pushing the team to move faster?
1:20:39
Because at at the same time, yeah, I know I know you want to, you know, be be practical about the roll out and and not get over your skis, but at the same time, I mean, people people in our chat are anybody that that sort of knows it exists, they start to become angry that they don't have it in their in their area, and they I'm sure there there's people sending you messages all day long asking you, "When are you going to be here?
1:21:04
When are you going to be here?"
1:21:06
So yeah, we don't we're we're going to be announcing something very shortly.
1:21:08
Uh we just started talking about it internally, but we'll be announcing the next two metros that we're launching in Q1 and Q2.
1:21:14
So look for that in the next week or two.
1:21:16
Um you know, we are we're then going to start accelerating and adding multiple metros a quarter starting in the second half of next year.
1:21:24
So we are trying to move super super fast.
1:21:27
uh hardware companies are um are hard in that you know you have to scale all these different parts of the business simultaneously. It's in the name.
1:21:36
Uh and also it's like you you know you got to make really sure that you don't accidentally bankrupt the company.
1:21:41
And actually the faster you're growing the easier it is to back bankrupt the company because like you know these numbers when you're when you're building 20,000 autonomous aircraft a year the numbers actually start to get really big.
1:21:51
You got to make sure that like the hardware is validated and like you have, you know, sites that these that the hardware can go to and begin operating.
1:21:57
You got to make sure that aircraft utilization is high.
1:21:59
You have to make, you know, there there's um there's a lot that has to move in tandem um in order for the business to work.
1:22:05
Uh so I mean to put it into perspective, right now flight volumes have been growing about 15% week over week for the last 30 weeks straight.
1:22:15
We are now planning for next year.
1:22:17
Yeah, we're planning for next year and we actually just reforcasted the entire business and we are planning to actually double our growth rate next year relative to what we were planning just at the beginning of this quarter.
1:22:30
[screaming] >> It's Yeah.
1:22:30
And I don't know how much I I can you know B, you know, we are we are definitely anticipating like exponential growth.
1:22:38
>> I feel like you've given us enough to do DCF at this point. It's fantastic.
1:22:42
[laughter] >> Yeah, exactly.
1:22:44
>> Just just send it straight to Wall Street.
1:22:46
[laughter] I appreciate it. >> This is fantastic. So exciting. Congratulations again.
1:22:51
Uh it's always a great time.
1:22:53
>> You guys got to come to Dallas.
1:22:53
I think I think it's probably at a point now, you know, when I was in Dallas last week, like we're just hanging out at all these different um you know, these different neighborhoods that are using Zipline.
1:23:03
And there were neighborhoods where I saw more zips than I saw cars. >> Wow.
1:23:08
>> And so I don't I you know, it's funny how the you know, the futures here it's just not evenly distributed.
1:23:11
I think there are, you know, certain parts of the US people like, "Oh yeah, it's sci-fi."
1:23:15
Like it, you know, it's totally goofy.
1:23:16
And then there's like yeah some metros where people like oh yeah I use it like three to four times a day.
1:23:19
And by the way these are like predominantly >> and grandmas there's a lot of AI researchers that say that uh getting Whimo into DC will be will significantly update uh the administration's AGI timelines because they will just see robots on the street and they will recognize that this is a real thing.
1:23:37
And until you actually see it diffused in the in the world, it it's very hard.
1:23:44
It's very abstract to just see reports.
1:23:46
Oh, Whimo has a thousand rides or 10,000 rides or a million rides.
1:23:49
It's like, what does that mean?
1:23:50
But when you are walking and it's like, oh, seven Whimos in a row and they're all driving fine, not crashing into each other. You get it.
1:23:57
>> Even Tesla FSD, I mean, I, you know, I was hanging out with my college professor and he like had no idea >> what FSD was or that it was working >> because we've heard we've heard about it for so long, but it's finally here. So, yeah. Very exciting.
1:24:10
>> Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
1:24:12
Uh I hope you have a great Thanksgiving and we'll talk to you soon.
1:24:15
I'm sure you'll be back soon.
1:24:16
>> Yeah, you'll be busy delivering turkeys. >> Hotle turkeys soon. >> Small ones we can do.
1:24:21
>> Small ones you can do. Okay, great. I [laughter] love it.
1:24:24
>> Well, congratulations.
1:24:24
Great to catch up, Kelly. Good to see you. Cheers.
1:24:28
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1:24:49
We have our next guest in the reream waiting room, Royce Branding from Clear Space. How you doing, Royce? Welcome to the show. Good to have you. How you doing? >> Thanks for having me. I'm doing well. How you guys doing? >> I'm doing well.
1:25:01
uh can you kick us off with just a a little bit of intro and background on you and the company and uh and then I you know there's a whole bunch of questions that I'm sure we're gonna get into.
1:25:11
>> Totally excited to dive in.
1:25:11
Um my name is Royce Branding, co-founder and CEO of Clear Space and we help people reduce their screen time.
1:25:17
Um our company, our mission is to build the missing intentionality layer of the internet.
1:25:21
We think there's a fundamental asymmetry in the war for your attention and we're equipping uh the individual autonomous consumer in the market with the ability to steer their focus online and protect their family's attention online.
1:25:35
>> What's a perfect amount of screen time?
1:25:37
Have you guys run the numbers?
1:25:37
Is there is there is there an optimal >> Well, you know, Andrew Rossin asked Peter Teal this in Sun Valley for his kids.
1:25:45
He was like, "You're on the board of Facebook.
1:25:46
How long how much screen time do you let >> Did he say like zero?"
1:25:51
>> He said 30 minutes a week. >> Oh, yeah.
1:25:52
Yeah, >> 30 minutes a week is ambitious.
1:25:54
I think that uh the ideal amount of screen time is probably a little bit less than whatever you're spending right now.
1:26:02
>> Um we say we say that a calorie is not a calorie is not a calorie.
1:26:04
Uh a minute spent on a screen is not equivalent to another minute spent on a screen. >> Sure.
1:26:09
>> Um but you want to be increasing the the quality of the consumption and usually overall reduction in quantity ends up meaning an increase in quality.
1:26:17
>> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
1:26:17
Um so how do you actually do I mean there are screen time functionality natively baked into Apple uh the iOS.
1:26:23
I'm sure Android has it too.
1:26:26
Uh your business is still working so it's not like you're getting steamrolled but how do you how do you differentiate and deliver value?
1:26:34
>> Do they have uh is there any sort of misalignment to Apple's business with screen time?
1:26:39
Because I imagine if they really incentivize people to use their screen less, it's like less apps that I'm subscribing to and less kind of potentially less act like they don't have a perfect incentive to make you use your phone less.
1:26:51
They sell you the phone once, but they're like take more pictures, get those get those iCloud subscriptions up, buy more apps, spend more in that mobile game, etc. >> 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
1:27:02
Yeah, we think we think Apple has every incentive to have a solution here, but maybe not the the ideal incentives to have an effective solution to helping people kind of control their screen time and reduce it.
1:27:13
Um, we think that it comes down to both visibility and control.
1:27:15
So, you have like a feedback loop that's helping people identify how much time they're spending on devices and like where that's actually going.
1:27:21
I think the current state of screen time right now is basically like again to use food if you only tracked calories that you consumed, not micro and macronutrients.
1:27:31
So, for the last 2 years coming out of YC, we've been primarily focused on a mobile app that grows people's awareness of how much time they're spending on devices and then allows them to add little bits of cognitive friction into the addictive habit loops that they use on different apps like social media.
1:27:44
And that kind of starts to get them rehabilitating an addictive habit.
1:27:48
Um, but what we're actually working on now, and we just announced a few weeks ago, are screen time agents that sit at your network layer and can observe network traffic going to all your devices.
1:27:58
And this is particularly useful both for individuals and for their families to think about holistically what it means to have the right type of content, the right time of consumption happening across all of their different devices.
1:28:12
Um, and that kind of breaks out of just Apple's ecosystem of what they allow us to see. >> Yeah.
1:28:16
Yeah, that's interesting.
1:28:16
Um, how do you think about uh the responsibilities of uh different big tech platforms?
1:28:24
We were just uh pulling up this article in CNBC uh about uh this whistleblower uh is claiming that Meta failed to act to protect teens.
1:28:32
Do you do you have a do you have a stance on like are the big tech platforms uh being negligent in in the in what they're surfacing to their users or do you think it's more just like the natural forces of you know the economic incentives they're trying to sell ads?
1:28:49
How do you how have you grappled with the various um like dustups in the big tech world over uh the like what happens on these apps? >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:29:01
I tend to think about uh no one is the boogeyman.
1:29:04
Uh I think actors are kind of following the incentives laid out before them.
1:29:09
>> Uh our mission is really much to meet the opposite side demand.
1:29:12
I mean I don't know about you guys, everyone I know hates their relationship with their phone.
1:29:16
They hate how much time they spend on their devices.
1:29:18
And I think what we're seeing is we think that actually equipping them to articulate that preference in terms of how much they're spending time on these platforms with technology that's sophisticatedly protecting their attention is going to actually push back against how big of an intention economy scenario can actually be downstream from people just rampantly consuming content. >> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
1:29:39
Um, >> so, uh, uh, how do you actually, uh, uh, like take me through a list of like the the walls that you run into?
1:29:50
I mean, all the big tech platforms are like famously walled gardens.
1:29:53
Uh, somebody in the chat was asking like, I would love uh, to be able to use YouTube uh, with no shorts, only like long form content.
1:30:00
And um, I actually installed a an extension in Safari uh, called Social Focus that allows you to do that.
1:30:08
it it'll if you use the browser, but if you're in the app, there's nothing you can do.
1:30:12
Uh it sounds like you're going higher at the network traffic level a little bit.
1:30:15
Um but at the same time, I don't even know.
1:30:20
Can you at the router level detect if someone's watching a short versus a long form video on YouTube?
1:30:24
That feels like that would be obfiscated. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:30:28
That that gets a little harder to do.
1:30:30
Although we're constantly pressing at the edges of like what is possible around that.
1:30:34
I mean, we've definitely ran some experiments where you can kind of fingerprint what short form content might look like coming down the wire versus long form content.
1:30:43
>> And so, there is like interesting things that you can start doing there.
1:30:44
But, um, really robustly for the mobile app, we can basically just like make sure that you're staying within healthy usage limits and that those aren't sliding out of control, which like when shorts go wrong, what really happens is they like pull you into a longer session than you want to be in.
1:30:59
Um, so there's not an easy way to do that, but different platforms have different rules.
1:31:02
Like on obviously Chrome, on the MacBook, um, there's a way higher ability to to detect what type of stuff you're watching. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:31:12
It's uh I mean it's tricky especially as all the apps like collapse uh with AI.
1:31:17
Uh you could imagine I mean right now Sora and Chat GPT are uh are separate apps but in many ways they're like on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
1:31:26
like I I want, you know, my my, you know, son probably spending a bunch of time solving problems in CHP and researching things and like finding facts and and, you know, using it as a helpful assistant to understand the world.
1:31:39
Uh, and probably very little time on Sora just, you know, uh, slopping it up. >> But, uh, >> yeah.
1:31:45
What what what are what are parents of teenagers actually doing specifically with Clear Space?
1:31:51
Like, how are they utilizing it? What are best practices?
1:31:54
our our kids are much uh younger, five five and below.
1:31:57
Uh so we've have probably another at least five five to seven years before this is even a conversation. But I'm curious.
1:32:08
>> Yeah, that one some of the cool stuff that we've seen is people inviting their kids into like challenges as families.
1:32:14
So setting up like incentive and reward systems.
1:32:16
One of our most popular >> gambling.
1:32:19
>> Gambling on screen time. The most American thing.
1:32:22
>> Fight fight one addiction with the other.
1:32:23
We uh we we hear a lot of parents like set up family groups where they're doing a challenge like a push-up to scroll challenge where everyone in the family or squat to scroll.
1:32:31
You have to earn every single minute you're going to spend on social media that week with a physical exercise that we validate with like a machine learning verified push-up or squat.
1:32:42
>> And then whoever's in the lead at the end of the week gets to decide where the family's eating out to dinner on Friday night.
1:32:46
I think the most effective solutions we're seeing are kind of these like cultural push backs almost um you know community t type stuff like the practice of Shabbat in like the Jewish community where it's like 24 hours everyone's putting their phone away and people love it.
1:32:59
It's not this like negative you can't use your screens.
1:33:02
It's like everyone's kind of buying into a new fun thing and we think Clear Space is the platform that can empower you to do that like really quickly.
1:33:08
You don't have to be a software engineer and know how to hack your router and know how to program all the phones.
1:33:13
You don't have to buy a dumb phone.
1:33:14
you can kind of still participate in the latest and greatest technologies while knowing that they're not completely zapping your entire family. >> Yeah, >> totally.
1:33:22
[snorts] >> Well, congratulations on the progress.
1:33:23
I know we didn't talk too much about the business actually, more about the problems that you're solving, but uh it's uh yeah, it's a very interesting uh industry. Uh >> thank you. I'm curious.
1:33:32
I'm curious for both of you guys what you're doing uh about your screen time these days.
1:33:35
Uh, most of the time I mean I don't know because all my screen time is actually really low because I'm live streaming all the time and do I count this like I'm looking at a screen I'm looking at you.
1:33:46
>> The other thing I've always been frustrated with the dedicated screen is actually way lower than it used to be because I'm live but that's content and I am the content and so it's a little bit murkier.
1:33:55
But >> the other thing is I was always frustrated with screen time.
1:33:57
I I'll I'll I'll give uh Clear Space a spin, but with the core screen time app, it would track like call hours as part of the screen time, right?
1:34:07
Which is makes zero sense to me because I'm like oftentimes like not using my screen at all.
1:34:11
I'm just talking with somebody.
1:34:13
And so anyways, I I just always uh always felt like uh I don't I don't know.
1:34:18
I I think I've always been more focused on spending time >> on you you talked about like all all calories are not, you know, created equally, but >> spending spending time doing the right things, but um yeah, the best the best thing I've found is just putting my phone uh >> far away and uh just staying away from it.
1:34:40
>> Yeah, last week I spent eight hours in the maps app or something, which is like >> dang it, >> I I need to commute last >> map maxing.
1:34:48
It was my number one used app last week.
1:34:50
I don't know what was going on. I was driving a lot.
1:34:54
>> Putting the putting the phone across the room is what we call a classic uh low tech solution to a high-tech problem.
1:34:58
Uh we we think there's an opportunity to basically deploy super intelligence. >> Sure.
1:35:04
>> At the network level at protecting your attention rather than exploiting.
1:35:08
>> And that's like we think that's what people want and that's what we're bringing to them.
1:35:11
>> I'm gonna I'm gonna really stick it to Apple and just start breaking my phone into pieces when I want to use it less.
1:35:17
And then I got to cuz I'm on the whatever I get the the free replacements, right?
1:35:21
So then I just go in the next day, get a new phone and when I want some less screen time, I just break it into pieces.
1:35:26
That's the real low tech solution.
1:35:27
But uh excited to give give uh Clear Space a spin and really glad you guys are working on this.
1:35:34
Very important that we we have the smartest people in the world trying to capture as much attention as possible and it's good to have, you know, equally smart people working on uh on humanity's side here.
1:35:46
So, thank you and uh great to meet you. >> Awesome. Great to meet you guys. >> Cheers. >> Talk to you soon.
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1:35:58
Uh oh, this CNBC story, Meta failed to act to protect teens.
1:36:03
Second whistleblower testified. This is from 2023.
1:36:05
So, I don't know uh why Adam Dell wants us to discuss this.
1:36:10
Uh is there something new here?
1:36:13
because the the CNBC story links to a Wall Street Journal article and I was like, "Oh, November 2nd.
1:36:18
It's a little bit old, but it's November 2nd of 2023."
1:36:21
And so, uh I don't I don't know what uh I don't know what the news is here.
1:36:25
Maybe there's something new. We'll have to dig in.
1:36:26
Um but, uh but we can go and uh and take a tour of the latest in Meta's world.
1:36:31
The most recent thing that I saw was that they um uh they beat the FTC case on the um on the on the antitrust case that they were fighting.
1:36:41
So, uh, things to be seem to be on the up and up.
1:36:43
Um, the latest thing from Meta on the like is it safe for kids, uh, stuff was from Adam Miseri at Instagram where he was saying he's going to try and make it PG-13.
1:36:52
He was using the MPAA rating system and I believe that there was like some some push back from the MPA on whether or not they could.
1:37:01
I was saying, "Hey, Meta, you're rich enough.
1:37:03
You should buy the entire MPA.
1:37:04
I don't even know if you can.
1:37:05
probably nonprofit, but like I want I want those ratings like in every app like just as a consumer because everyone understands it.
1:37:12
You know what R-rated means.
1:37:14
You know what PG-13 means. You know what PG means.
1:37:16
I can even tell the difference between G and PG now with the kids because uh PG there might be a little bit of a like a tense moment.
1:37:24
It's just like emotionally charged.
1:37:24
I I used to think PG G it's the same stuff but it's not.
1:37:28
And so um quantifying that using the using every movie is training data, pipelining that in and then filtering every message that gets sent into Instagram, every post.
1:37:38
Hey, how would you rate this machine learning model?
1:37:43
AGI god personal super intelligence.
1:37:45
Let's give every every Instagram post a a rating and then let the user decide, hey, I don't want to see anything above PG-13.
1:37:53
I don't want to see anything R-rated.
1:37:55
I don't want to see anything uh G-rated or or PG-rated or anything above that.
1:38:00
Uh if you could set your threshold, I think that would be very useful for parents who want uh parental guidance on the meta platforms. >> Okay.
1:38:08
We've had a bunch of guests back toback.
1:38:10
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1:38:20
Okay, we got to talk about the the cremon exchange. >> Yes.
1:38:28
>> I I thought that Kermux was pretty pretty fair.
1:38:31
I didn't I I think he could have gone harder. >> Yeah.
1:38:36
>> Uh I Keon said he didn't watch Kremuse's interview that he was with a patient.
1:38:44
>> Uh I I wish that he I wish that he had. Yep.
1:38:47
uh because it seems like this is uh one of the most important things on his plate right now is kind of getting getting beyond this and >> uh ultimately we tried to bring up as many of kind of the key >> concerns as possible to be honest.
1:39:01
It's so it's it's technical enough that I don't that that uh it's it's we don't have the same power level in terms of kind of like pushing Keon on some of these issues and >> Sichuan which is why I think like the a lot of the debates will be done around the data in blog posts by scientists but uh >> yeah and and Keon's main point that I took away was uh [laughter] Sorry, laughing at laughing at the chat.
1:39:34
Uh, but uh it was like >> people are angry that we have the best marketing and the best science and I I believe that they have the most effective marketing in terms of capturing attention right now.
1:39:45
But I don't have the confidence after that conversation that the marketing should be happening at the scale that it is.
1:39:55
like I just don't >> uh I didn't I didn't come away from that super confident that uh that that Keon uh felt like they've done anything >> anything at all that's that's wrong >> even even even if you just narrow it to what there is full agreement in amongst all participants on which is that uh there were reviews that were anonymized and then not disclosed to be anonymized even if it's just that like that is enough to you know if you're a customer
1:40:26
be like oh like this I I don't trust this anymore and it's a very very high trust environment it's a very trust critical environment it's not okay yeah I'm buying a phone case and like they AI generated the the the like an example of
1:40:40
a person holding up the phone case like that's not what this is this is like life it's bio it's really important >> people are selecting you know impact future child's life and I think that whatever happens, >> it's really important to get it right. Yeah. Yeah.
1:40:57
>> It's really important to get it right.
1:40:58
And ultimately people that use the service, if they have an adverse experience, they feel like this service didn't deliver, it went wrong, they're going to come back to this. >> Yeah.
1:41:09
So are there are there any posts that we need to read followed up and said the fundamental problem with Keon's deflection is that even if the origin poly polygenic weights can be independently validated to have the predictive accuracies claimed in their
1:41:22
white paper none of that changes the fact that they uh completely plagiarized herite falsely claim that origin is novel and has superior performance made numerous errors from typos to substantive mistakes in their white paper. have a history of making
1:41:35
have a history of making literally impossible accuracy claims in some cases inflated 200x to independent replication. >> Mhm.
1:41:45
>> Uh these these are not just >> What's up, Tyler?
1:41:49
>> Oh, I just uh there's you can continue.
1:41:50
I have another post I want to talk about. >> Okay. Yeah.
1:41:52
>> These are not just restricted to claims about technical accuracy.
1:41:54
These are claims about ethics and morality.
1:41:56
For the vast majority of businesses, maybe you don't really care that that much about unethical practices. Typically, that's fine.
1:42:04
I mean, maybe Meta does shady stuff sometimes, but I still use Messenger.
1:42:07
Maybe my local grocery store manager is a wife beater. Who knows?
1:42:10
I still have to buy my groceries somewhere.
1:42:14
That's a uh uh >> This is This is the example that we keep giving of like uh you know, will you go change your tires if you find out that the Bridgestone Tire Company is spying on uh you know, a rival tire company?
1:42:30
There are certain things where it's just like if the tires are working, like you're okay with it.
1:42:32
Um, a lot of it depends on like is the criticism directly in line with the company's uh with the company's product.
1:42:42
Like if the if the if the CEO flubs a line and they miss earnings, but the but the product still delivers what it is, it's like they sell apples and the apples taste great, like you're fine.
1:42:54
Um, but when but when they're when they're m making a claim about the actual product and then it doesn't align, that's where people uh really really start to ask questions.
1:43:05
So, closing out here, it says, "But we are talking about a company that will select your future child.
1:43:09
How can anyone trust a company where the CEO's first instinct when confronted with evidence-based criticism is to make false accusation of of shady conspiracy theories?
1:43:18
Um, and uh, MW follows up and says, "If a company engages in malpractice, i. e.
1:43:24
plagiarism providing products they should know are bad to customers etc.
1:43:28
Is it water under the bridge if they can clean up?
1:43:30
That's obviously a reaction to my question was uh you know is there a redemption arc in his mind?
1:43:36
Somebody says Volkswagen can answer this question really well.
1:43:39
I think that's because Dieselgate is what's going on with is is that in reference to >> Yeah.
1:43:46
Anyway, >> Keru also says Keon alleges that he's been working on embryo services for a long time.
1:43:51
Again, that doesn't seem surprising.
1:43:53
I don't I think this was always the the longer term vision of the company.
1:44:00
>> Uh but Kermu says he hasn't been uh he hasn't been doing this with genomic prediction according to their lawsuit which says in 2025 Nucleus sought to offer IVF products involving embryionic DNA testing.
1:44:12
Because Nucleus could not do that work itself.
1:44:14
It contracted with GP for GP to use its own embryionic genotyping products to provide test results for patients.
1:44:20
Uh Nucleus made overtures about acquiring GP, but soon it became apparent that Nucleus was looking for inroads to misapprop.
1:44:27
Yeah, again these these are just uh allegations that uh we can't really validate ourselves.
1:44:34
Um but again um didn't come away from that uh kind of more more confident in in anything really.
1:44:45
>> Yeah, the type form a lot of people are saying that the type form is down.
1:44:47
Keon was of course saying that like he will release the models and that uh you can go and get the the the you can get the the the models and the data from the type form.
1:44:59
It was down at the moment he said that but Max Gil Glick uh thank you for um your service doing that reporting in the chat while we were talking about that exact thing.
1:45:10
Max says it's back up now for what it's worth.
1:45:12
And so, uh, Kermux says that's good.
1:45:14
And I certainly hope I just feel like the next the the next turn of discussion, uh, needs to be, okay, we tested the models, we tested the data, uh, we we we tested the claims at a at a at a lower at a higher level of rigor, I guess.
1:45:30
Uh, Tyler, which post did you want to run to?
1:45:33
>> Oh, uh, it's at the bottom of the timeline.
1:45:34
Um, Sichuan Mal is also accusing Keon of using a Chad filter during >> This has happened before. This happened before.
1:45:42
Um, so, so when, uh, when Keon came on the show, uh, maybe six months ago, um, Growing Daniel accused him of using a a Chad filter while on the stream.
1:45:57
Um, and, uh, and went super viral.
1:46:01
Um, and and I was kind of like, oh, like that's uh, that's I don't know.
1:46:07
I don't know how to, you know, even respond to that.
1:46:09
That's a very silly claim.
1:46:10
Um, I I have no idea if this is real.
1:46:14
I can't I can't tell at this point um on a Zoom call at this resolution. What do you think?
1:46:19
Do you think this is uh real?
1:46:21
Are you guys just cracking up because everyone Does everyone think it's real?
1:46:25
>> I don't I don't think that used a filter.
1:46:28
>> I don't think he used >> I don't think he used a filter either.
1:46:30
>> I think he just grew a beard and >> I think he's just been mewing.
1:46:32
Maybe >> he's just photogenic.
1:46:34
Yeah, it is possible that he just he just, you know, flexed his jaw muscles and like, you know, has low body fat. I don't know. I I don't know.
1:46:42
I I feel like it would be extremely high risk to run a a chin augmentation filter.
1:46:50
>> Goes down for a second.
1:46:50
I mean, >> because because you you know that's what happens, right, when you're using like the Snapchat filter or like the Tik Tok filters.
1:46:56
Like sometimes they pop in and out and if they pop out like you're done.
1:47:00
like people are going to be immediately uh you know um let's see compare the first two images with the x.
1:47:07
com profile I mean the x.
1:47:07
com profile that picture looks three years old four years old I think uh on this one Sichuan like you might be over your skis I don't know uh we we we need to we need to prove it um and then uh yeah people are people are really going back and forth >> got to get the nucleus test for the gigachad test and and publicize the the results Everyone's cracking up in the studio.
1:47:31
We're having a wild time.
1:47:33
>> Um >> anyway, um >> in other news, this is actually insane.
1:47:38
Apparently, uh according to Axe, I don't know if this is true, but the robbery that took place yesterday in which an armed thief posed as a delivery driver uh and robbed somebody for a million dollars of Ethereum and Bitcoin.
1:47:54
Um uh was a locky groom that was targeted. >> Whoa. What? >> Which I had. >> No way.
1:48:03
>> I I didn't realize that uh it was him.
1:48:06
But absolutely terrible and traumatic and >> uh yeah, when self custody goes wrong, but I'm glad he's glad he's okay and safe. >> Wow.
1:48:18
An armed thief posing as a delivery guy finessed his way into the $4.
1:48:20
4 4 million miss uh mission district home shared by investor Locky Groom. Yes.
1:48:25
Sam Alman's ex-boyfriend and another tech investor named Joshua. Oh, >> okay.
1:48:30
So, it was not Locky but Joshua.
1:48:36
>> Um Gary Tan posted the footage, panicked enough to delete it minutes later.
1:48:41
Crypto security experts are now saying what everyone thinks.
1:48:42
Self- custody is great until someone shows up your door with a fake UPS label in a Glock.
1:48:45
San Francisco's tech leader about to hard pivot into vault custody.
1:48:49
private security, zero public flexing because this heist wasn't random. It was a warning shot.
1:48:55
>> Very chatbt written >> Mario.
1:48:58
>> Um but uh anyways, very sad.
1:49:01
>> Yeah, >> but glad Joshua is okay.
1:49:02
I was confused for a second. >> That is terrible.
1:49:07
>> Anyways, um >> thank you for tuning in today, folks.
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1:49:29
Folks, >> thank you for taking the time to listen to the show.
1:49:33
Thanks for dealing with our uh stream issues up and down. We sorted it out. The full are posted.
1:49:39
Uh but yeah, the full interviews will be posted obviously RSS feed YouTube uh uh and the full Keon interview has made its way to the timeline.
1:49:50
Obviously, there's a lot of debate.
1:49:52
We will continue covering it, but not tomorrow because we're off and not Thursday because of Thanksgiving.
1:49:55
We will be back on Friday.
1:49:58
>> Friday >> for Black Friday.
1:49:59
We have a fantastic lineup of a bunch of different entrepreneurs, e-commerce, >> founders, brand builders, >> some of the most savage >> operators, e-commerce operators in the world. cannot wait.
1:50:13
>> It's going to be a great time. >> A lot of friends.
1:50:15
>> Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.
1:50:15
We are thankful for each and every one of you.
1:50:19
Uh thank you for being a part of this and we'll see you Friday. >> Goodbye. >> Cheers.