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[Music] Chris Hemsworth, welcome to On Purpose. Thanks for having me.
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It's great to have be here.
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We're in Byron, is that >> Byron Bay, yeah.
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Let me be specific, so >> Yeah.
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come to Byron to interview you.
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And I was just sharing with you when I first started the show, you were on that top list of people I wanted to sit down with. Oh.
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So, it took me 7 years to get to Byron, mate. Thank you very much.
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>> I'm really, really grateful.
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So, yeah, I've been such a fan of your work.
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Loved watching your interviews.
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Uh felt felt just a connection to what you're doing.
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And then as you've gone into this world of Limitless Mhm.
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and now this incredible documentary with your father, it's it's such a phenomenal evolution from the authentic version of you that I feel we've always got to see in interviews. So, Oh, appreciate it. Thank you.
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>> really, really special. >> Yeah.
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I love the show and and it it's um I'm glad you could make it out here and we could do this in my hometown.
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So, Yeah, it's beautiful.
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Well, I wanted to dive right in because in the doc we get such a up close and personal feel of who you are, your family, your parents.
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>> And I love understanding how people became who they were. Yeah.
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>> first question is, what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today? That feels like it Mhm.
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>> such a strong part of your personality today.
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What you see in the documentary is is um the road trip my dad and I take back to uh the community that we grew up in, this indigenous community, Northern Territory, in the Outback of Australia.
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And they were my definitely my most vivid, earliest memories.
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I I'm having trouble remembering kind of years earlier than that and years after that, you know, because I think it one it was so starkly different to the environment in Melbourne where I grew up.
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Um but I think there was I said it had such a profound impact on me um due to for so many reasons.
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many reasons. The the connection with the land, the the people in that community, um the experience itself was so dramatically different to anything else I'd done, but um the immersion within that that that indigenous culture in Australia and and having um feeling this sort of influence
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from the I guess the sort of traditional way of life that that they embodied and and the um the welcoming we received in that town, um I still have when when I think about who I am and my appreciation and sense of gratitude and and place in the world, definitely I I I'm brought back to that period of my life. I'm trying to think of a sort
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I'm trying to think of a sort of a single sort of thing for you, but that that period of time for me is the most um the most vivid and and one >> What images flash in your mind when you're thinking about that time?
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Is it >> only a pair of shoes, not not having a TV, um being the only white kid in an indigenous school, um buffalo walking down the street, um being 5 hours drive from the nearest shops, you know, it was like a little remote community in the in the middle of the Outback.
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And but how normal it all felt, you know?
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And to be sort of thrust back out into that environment now would would be sort of a shock to the system in in many ways, but that was um as familiar and comfortable and and and organic as sort of anything I've ever felt.
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And um you know, that I see photographs now that prompt instant sort of visceral feelings and a deep sort of um nostalgia and and warmth and and happiness, you know, and a sense of connection because that was you know, we lived in a tent at one point, you know, with with with with my parents and and my older brother.
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Um we then lived in a sort of a you know, very old sort of run-down house, but it was it was as as you know, wonderful as a childhood as you could ask for, you know?
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There were no it was sort of boundless the opportunities where the imagination could go and the sort of the physical experience, you know, um it was again, unlike kind of anything else I've had since then, you know?
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There was a real sort of Peter Pan quality to that um sense of fantasy and and and adventure that that was instilled in us from that age, but that that environment definitely awakened in us. Yeah.
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And I guess when you're living it, you don't know how special it is. >> Yeah.
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I it it it I think like all of our experiences that you know, they're the norm is what is in front of you, you know?
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And if I had something to compare it with at the time, I I may have, but it it was that was my way of life.
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And then it was kind of a shock coming back to Melbourne and and and got and um adapting into I guess the world that you know, suburban neighborhood, you know, structured sort of um you know, town that we lived in and catching the bus to school and the train and all the sort of the usual things.
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That for me was an adaptation that was I remember kind of going, oh, this is this is very different to where where we had sort of where we'd come from. Yeah.
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Your your dad in the documentary says that as a kid you would say, "I'm going to Hollywood." Going to Hollywood.
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Yeah, I'll go to Hollywood.
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Where where did that come from from this world that you grew up in?
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I think part of it was growing up in Northern Territory because there was this sort of sense of adventure instilled in me then and and um I remember my dad reading Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit to me and and and my mom as well and that sense of sort of fantasy and and imagination awakened through through a sort of a very big cultural difference, but also I think being outdoors, you know?
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The opportunity for not boredom, but not being continuously stimulated and entertained like we are sort of nowadays with devices and so on.
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There was I guess being in that environment awoke something in me that I still now either try and get back to or when I do attach myself to it, it ignites that sense of fantasy and that sense of adventure.
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Um but through reading books and then when we moved back to Melbourne, um every weekend was you know, we would go to the movies or we would hire a film or we'd go on hikes and we'd go surfing and we'd go camping and and I remember from a very young age not wanting to be an actor, but wanting to be one of those characters in one of those films or one of those books.
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And the closest thing I could be to an elf in the Lord of the Rings you know, to dress up and play one in the movie.
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Or the closest thing I could, you know, um get to as far as intergalactic travel or something was playing the character in that movie.
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And and I guess it was a sort of an escapism of sorts, but not that I was escaping from anything I didn't want to be a part of.
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It was it kept me captivated, Mhm. you know? And still does.
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The transportation to other worlds and inhabiting other characters and other spaces, um it's yeah.
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it's yeah. And and it sort of it comes from a different Each film and each character I sort of I look at and that sort of journey I embark on, it there's a sort of a real organic um attachment to it as far as I wouldn't say I'm seeking out that
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character as much as I sort of arrive and then as you sort of fall into a character or fall into a a film, it then sort of takes on a life of its own and takes it to places that I think you just have to be open to, you know, interpretation, but open for the journey. You mean by playing a
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You mean by playing a character Yeah.
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>> it opens up a different mindset or different >> For sure.
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It It probes different parts of your soul or psyche and and there's a premeditated sort of approach and a sort of calculated approach and then there's an absolute sort of demolishing of all that preparation and surrendering to the process and then it and that's that's the part I love, you know?
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And and you only get that through an extreme amount of preparation >> Yes.
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>> and calculation, but then the um the letting go portion of it and which is where the risk is involved, but then that for me is where the greatest adventure occurs is is is through kind of really leaning in and really surrendering to the experience. That rings true.
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I I had the fortune of sitting with Kobe Bryant before he sadly passed away Yeah.
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>> on the show and he talked about how structure leads to spontaneity. Yeah.
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>> But it was that discipline, as you're saying, leads to the ultimate ability to Yeah. be free and surrender.
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But as I hear you say I'm wondering, it's obviously not something that you mathematically, strategically access because you're saying it's happening >> Yeah.
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in this really natural, authentic way where it leads you.
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What roles made you feel that way or which ones are the ones that have a strong memory for that for you where you went, oh wow, this led me to a place >> Yeah.
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I didn't imagine it would.
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I mean, it's interesting because I sort of I think I undulate from the extreme analytical over ruminating, calculated analysis of something and then into the sort of you know, the more sort of mad scientist, you know, intuitive sort of approach.
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And but they go hand in hand, you know, the sort of the polarity between the two I find is is is really helpful and and I'd say the I did a film with George Miller, um part of the Mad Max series called Furiosa.
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called Furiosa. And and that for me was was probably the the greatest example of that kind of character taking over and and being led into a place which you you didn't plan for, but it only the sort of improvisational portion of
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it or the experimentation of it or the, you know, throw caution to the wind and just leap in headfirst came from months and months or actually a couple of years because I had read the script two years before and while I was doing other films, I was thinking about that character. It began
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It began to sort of infect my my thoughts in a daily and to the point where I had to kind of try and put it aside because I had to get back to the film I was currently on.
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I was talking to George Miller about that and he goes, "Well, selfishly I don't mind, you know, you can give our character more of that."
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And it was the first time I kind of started journaling as the character and started doing a um you know, he was a pretty ugly villainous individual on paper and and on screen as well, I guess.
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Um but I had to find a way to sort of understand and empathize with his position and from his point of view, he was the hero as in, you know, everyone's.
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you know, everyone's. And so by the time I got to set everything that I'd sort of planned began to fall away and each day was again kind of an experiment and a a real sort of deep dive into the psyche of this individual and what were the sort of justifications for his actions which
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were perceived from one angle as you know, um horrific, but from his angle and his position from where his people were standing survival of the fittest and um And I feel Yeah, I felt that a few times in my career, but that certainly stands out as as one of the biggest ones. I
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I feel like there's so much empathy in becoming an actor because you're trying to understand this character that you don't know, but you have to kind of get to know and you may not feel what they feel.
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My one of my friends is an acting coach in LA and I he invited me to just go watch one of his sessions with actors at night and so I went to see him a couple of weeks ago and I was just like, if anyone feels lonely, they should just go to an acting class.
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Like everyone was so Yeah.
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encouraging of each other and there was this real camaraderie that everyone had and everyone give each other feedback Mhm.
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>> of it was about dissecting character and emotion >> Yeah.
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feeling and I was like, wow, I've learned more from this than Yeah.
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>> you know, about human emotion and about human potential and depth than you would going to a class because there's so much study and there's so many layers and there's so many >> And as I'm hearing to you talk about it, I'm like, yeah, there's such a But it sounds like you love that.
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Like it sounds like that. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> I mean, I've always had a big interest in psychology and understanding our sort of inner workings of our our soul and our psyche and us as human beings and how we interact with one another and and nature versus nurture and the how
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and why of it all and for me there's just something therapeutic about the experience of acting and and putting on the clothes of a completely different individual and having the chance to um look at the world through a different lens. >> Yeah. And um and I see that as a real >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. And um and I see that as a real sort of gift um compared to a lot of sort of I guess you know, our uh our our our our working life it is there's just an abundance of creativity and exploration there which which I find, you know incredibly helpful just even I mean, for each character I find I come out whether or not I agree with the
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character or not, I've been able to sit in their shoes for a moment and look at the world in a different way and I think there's just a sort of a humility that's forced upon you in that sense which which I find um I find it it really interesting sort of experiment and as you've you pointed out, I think very healthy for all of us to do, you know. I know a lot of
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I know a lot of directors that you know, have never acted and it scares the hell out of them, but they go and do acting classes for that reason to understand the psychology.
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You also understand how you're going to come out um this character or what the position is that you might take and as opposed to standing on this side of the fence and making assumptions stepping into those different environments certainly and that gives you a greater sense of agency over it. Yeah.
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Has there ever been a character you played where you felt I wish that one didn't rub off on me or left a bit of them with you that you >> Oh, I mean, it's it I find it's not that the lines get blurred, but I've been in in on press tours defending my character and then I've been tapped on the shoulder and like, "The guy killed a bunch of people." I'm like, "Oh, yeah.
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Okay, but besides that part, you know."
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Um And so you it's sort of um I I I don't think the the state I would get myself in for certain characters through the day a very heightened sort of um fight or flight type state where I um there's a sort of feels like there's electricity running through my bones and it and you've especially when there's a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of reaction, a lot of lot going on, that I find very hard to switch off.
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It's not so much the um the character that I'm trying to shake, it's the energy that's required to play that character. >> Right. Right.
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>> And I find it with one of the hardest things to the hard to come off is improvisational sort of comedy, you know, and I remember doing um I remember we did when we did Ragnarok, there was a lot of that in there and it was a very new version of the character and I would get into this sort of ecstatic sort of
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you know, electrified state and be kind of drinking coffee and Red Bull and slamming, you know, energy drink to try and elevate that more and then it was like, well, I'd have to kind of rein that in and get home and I'd just be sort of twitching and I'd think, you know, I've got to chill and try to come off that. So I find that the
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So I find that the the residual effect of the state of the character more so than the >> Yeah. Yeah.
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It's more about getting into character. >> Yeah.
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Because you could put that that that I don't necessarily have to believe I am the, you know um leader of an army or whatever and it's it's more what would I feel in that situation that you then embody and then that sort of takes over. >> Yeah.
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That's fascinating to hear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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The the the but the jitters are real.
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Like that's like you've talked before about this idea of how your acting career has actually brought on huge anxiety Yeah. >> and stress.
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Where Where's that come from?
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I remember when I when I first started acting I had it it it immediately once I sort of locked into the idea that I was going to become an actor it was an absolute obsession. It was an addiction.
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It was all I talked about.
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There was a sort of there was no shadow of a doubt that was what I was going to do.
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And there was a um ignorance and naivety that that that that was there um about the reality of that how difficult that was going to be but that it you need a fair amount of madness, I think, to sort of excel in any space.
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There needs to be a certain amount of um uh absolute deeply profound sort of commitment to it.
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You know, you talk about Kobe Bryant and anyone who's excelled in their their field and you know, number of of of sports players and individuals that I look to that's sort of on the spectrum in some sense, you know, that there's a sort of a mastery there which is other worldly, but it does require a sort of an insane dedication to it.
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So I remember when I was finishing high school, it became this obsession.
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That was all I was going to do and everything I was going to do from it was I was going to pay off my parents' house. I was going to do this. I was going to do that.
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I was going to take care of my family and friends and all you know, look at all the amazing things I could do and all that.
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And every time I go into a job, as small as it was and inconsequential, in my mind was like, if I screw up this one scene then it will somehow make its way to Hollywood from Australia and I'll never get a job again.
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If I screw up this one audition.
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And it was that kind of pressure.
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It was I was thinking 10 years ahead.
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And then sort of the time I got onto um Home and Away which was, you know, the big soap opera the longest running soap opera in Australia which you I'm from London, so yeah. >> Yeah.
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I flew into that that experience with enthusiasm and excitement and I was it was great for a couple of months and all of a sudden I was hit with this wave of anxiety because I was looking at the outcome rather than the sort of process and I was looking at the um I'm doing it for this reason and that
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reason and rather than being in the moment in the present and it really detracted from what I was doing each day and I would be the last thing I'd think about before I go to bed was what scenes I'd screwed up and how I should have done this, I should have done that. And as soon as I'd wake up,
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And as soon as I'd wake up, it'd be like a shot of adrenaline about what I was going to screw up.
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And I don't know what I think it became from a sort of expecting too much of myself which is there's a slight sort of contradiction to that, too, because as I said, it requires that obsessive you know addictive sort of concentration, but I it's the ability to sort of hold that obsession and that absolute need and want for it to to to achieve something great that you want to achieve and then at the same time to completely let it go and not care.
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And so I had to do this strange dance around trying to convince myself I didn't care, but in the preparation time to to motivate myself I would have to care a hell of a lot and and so it it it's sort of the um you know, the the the two the two voices the Jekyll and Hyde version of of oneself that is sort of both need to be kept in check, you know, it's it's your purpose pulls you, your fear pushes you.
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pulls you, your fear pushes you. There's a sort of strange um balance with the two extremes I find useful, but also terrifying when not kept in check um and I and I and I that sat with me for years that anxiety and then I remember I've talked about this in a couple of interviews, but
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reading a few books around performance anxiety specifically and looking at different sports players and and musicians and and people who perform at a high level of public speaking and they took their all their sort of measurements, you know, the physical sort of respond responses prior to this these engagements and said are you scared or are you excited? And whether, you know, half the group
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And whether, you know, half the group was in this scared category, half was in excited, the physical response was exactly the same across the board, elevated heart rate, all the things you know, you would imagine.
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So, it was about the sort of the takeaway was it was about an interpretation to that feeling.
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And so, when I would have nervous energy come up and all those things that at one point I would signal to myself for fear, I had to just, you know, narrate that in a different sense and say, "Oh, no, this is my signaling for excitement.
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This is not my signaling for fear."
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And again, that's I still have to keep that in check and it sort of out of nowhere will take me down one path or the other and I've got to kind of wrangle my way back to to to preferred place, which is which is that the enthusiastic excited, you know.
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Yeah, what what's fascinating about that as I'm hearing you say it is it actually makes you better at what you do. Yeah.
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>> Like that pressure, it sounds like that you were putting on yourself when you're doing home and away, Yeah.
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even though it wasn't a great experience for you, it's making you better at the thing. Yeah.
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And that's what I find so fascinating about people like yourself or high-performing athletes or any of the types of people you mentioned is the thing that makes you better at the craft doesn't necessarily improve the quality of your life Mhm. >> Yeah.
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And that's that dance you're talking about, which is so, I've got a kind of be able to unleash the beast to be able to Yeah.
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do the work that I do, but then I don't want the beast to eat me Yeah.
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>> because then there's nothing left Yeah.
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when the beast is, you know, satisfied.
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>> For sure, there's sort of a blessing and a curse in a way.
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And it's because I I've had experiences when you know, the thing I was trying to remove, which was that heightened sense of awareness and the and then then the fact the you know, you're absorbing too much information and it's every little movement or sound and I'm like, "Oh God, I wish I could numb that.
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I wish I could reduce this sort of state and be more present."
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And then I've found my way to that place either through um not caring for one reason or another, being purely exhausted, you know, you've night shoots, you just got there is no adrenaline left in the body. Yeah.
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I'm like, "Oh, this is great. I'm comfortable."
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And the first note is yeah, it's a bit flat.
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You know, then the next take, you know, and I'm like, "Oh, great, the thing I've been trying to get rid of was actually the secret sauce."
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And and so, that became again about the interpretation.
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I don't think the feeling itself is the problem.
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It's it's it's our label we put upon it, you know, which then causes all the problems.
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And and so, I say this to friends of mine who are or just lingering on certain having anxiety or problems, I'm like, "You've got to just you've got to make friends with it.
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You've got to look at it it through hardly recognize now, but it is a a gift in that sense.
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You're it's it is your spot spotty senses coming alive.
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It is the ability to think quicker and react faster and be more attuned to things.
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If you you're allowing it in the space as opposed to trying to, you know, don't think of a pink elephant. What do you think of? That's pink elephant.
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And I've had so many people talk about like meditation prior to um walking on stage and calming down and trying to uh for me that is like a house of cards cuz it's like you're in that state and then the one little thing sets you off.
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Whereas I beforehand want to get my state and myself into that ecstatic sort of state because it's on my terms.
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So, now I own it as opposed to it being something that creeps in the back door.
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I'm like, "No, I want this. Bring it on."
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Big deep breath, kind of, you know, absorb it, use it.
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And then and then I found that that is has been really beneficial and and I've been able to use it for the good, you know, version of it as opposed to it transforming into the the one we're we're afraid of.
23:47
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, it's it's what I hear you saying is that when it's in control of you, it feels like pressure and fear. Mhm.
23:53
And then when you're in control of it, when you're embodying it, >> Yeah.
23:57
it's now part of your narrative and part of your purpose and part of you feeling like, "Oh, this is fuel Yeah.
24:02
>> for how I want to perform Yeah.
24:02
rather than this is just reminding me of hey, if I miss these three things, no one's going to care about me and I'll Yeah. mess this up." Yeah.
24:10
>> And that obviously is not helpful at all.
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And so, you're saying befriending it is transforming it from being pressure and fear Yeah.
24:18
>> to being friendship and purpose. Absolutely.
24:20
Yeah, there's an acceptance to it.
24:22
There's a a surrendering to it.
24:25
There's an ownership to it as opposed to it being something you're trying to avoid.
24:29
But that only comes through, I think, understanding the mechanisms or the mechanics around the fact that it is beneficial if you have that relationship, you know.
24:37
It is the worst thing in the world if you're trying to avoid it. Yes.
24:40
You know, shallow breath, heart rate's up, sweaty palms, like you can't think, everything just shuts down, you know.
24:46
But if it's like, "No, no, these these these these these this physical response is emotional response.
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I've programmed myself to see it as a positive, therefore it it can be." Yeah, yeah.
24:55
I mean, you know, and and again, you'll you'll see me break down at one point go, "Yeah, that trick ain't working today, is it, Chris?" Yeah.
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27:15
I've had a similar experience with public speaking where I've been public speaking for years on stages. >> Yeah.
27:21
And if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in, if I really care, I'll still get sweaty palms, I'll still be shaking a little, I'll feel my heart rate go up, and I've learned that all of those things Yeah.
27:34
>> assign that I care Mhm.
27:34
because I know if I get asked to speak somewhere I don't really care, >> Yeah.
27:37
then I won't feel any of those things. Yeah.
27:39
And so, I'm like, "Oh, I I feel like there's some stakes here and Yeah. >> this is important."
27:42
And then I have my practices to embody that and feel good about that.
27:46
But then at the same time, when I went on tour 2 years ago and we were doing nearly 50 shows across the world, I was I was feeling a completely different level of anxiety than I'd ever felt.
27:57
And and I remember 2 days before when we were in rehearsals, I was just feeling really tight-chested.
28:01
I talked to my doctor and went in for a checkup, and they were like, "It's just stress."
28:05
And I was like, "Why am I stressed? I do this all the time."
28:07
But there's always What what still makes you nervous or what still gives you a little bit of that stress now?
28:13
>> the the this stuff, you know, the press, you know, walking on set, it it all it all definitely awakens that that that feeling.
28:19
And then it's a constant sort of dance and adaptable sort of experience.
28:27
But I think um I you know, I probably have a I have a much easier time now playing a character than I would being myself.
28:35
Like in fact, with this the series Limitless, that was very new to me to to, you know, be in the documentary space and and play Chris.
28:45
And I felt I felt really uncomfortable from that.
28:46
And and I got better with it probably in the second season and this and this last episode with my dad.
28:50
But earlier on, it was like I've nothing interesting to say.
28:54
I don't I'm not educated on these topics.
28:56
I don't And I'm sort of a guinea pig in the experience, so maybe that's a good thing, but it it you are you're far more critical of yourself than you are, I think, of someone you're pretending to be.
29:06
Like you said before, that it's a signaling that you care, I guess, that discomfort, that anxiety.
29:11
It's a signal that it's important on on on some level and it's something that should be respected and paid attention to rather than "Oh, I'm anxious.
29:19
Ah, how dare I be anxious?"
29:21
And then the criticism and the judgment, and then it's like slippery slope, Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting to me how so many of us it's easier to pretend to be someone than Yeah. >> play ourselves. Yeah.
29:33
>> Not just for actors, but all of us. >> Yeah.
29:35
>> Whether you're playing a performance at work and a persona or a persona with your friends.
29:39
And it's and it's so hard to just let go of that >> Yeah. >> persona.
29:43
And and it's almost like when I speak to comedians, they're always like, "Yeah, I just feel everyone just wants me to be funny all the time." >> Yeah.
29:49
And they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything and they just want to be normal and have a bad day or whatever it may be and you know, everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way. Yeah.
29:58
And it's almost like we're waiting for the person we can take off the outfit around and just Yeah. kind of let go.
30:05
I remember my mom talking to me about this years ago and and she was a high school teacher at the time and I said, "I'm nervous about this, that, and the other and being on a set and producing this."
30:14
And she goes, "It's the same in any environment."
30:17
You know, she goes, "Me as the teacher, okay, well, the principal is the producer and my students are the audience or you know, and then the my work colleagues are the other cast members."
30:26
And in any line of work you're faced with this it's this sort of a human experience that you can't escape and and she talked about the same thing about kind of um understanding that and accepting that it always is a challenge.
30:40
It's always a navigation of sorts that and and and rather than looking at it as my experience is unique and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than yours or this, that, no.
30:54
That's the trapping, you know, as soon as you you kind of understand it is more common than uncommon, I think there's some comfort in that.
31:00
Like I remember listening to um Anthony Hopkins and Cate Blanchett and you know, people I'd worked with and admired and and looked up to talking about, you know, imposter syndrome and all this is might be my last job and they're thinking, "Really?"
31:14
And but there was deep truth in that.
31:16
You know, they still had that doubt but aware of the fact that maybe that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble, it kept you motivated, it kept you pushing forward and searching as opposed to thinking you thinking you have all the answers, you know, and and then there's this sort of and there's a lack of humility, yeah.
31:33
Yeah, well, you've talked about that as well, right?
31:35
You've talked about that idea of fearing saying no Yeah.
31:36
because what if it all disappears?
31:41
And when I read that you said that, I was like, "Wow, like that you just wouldn't that but we have these codings from whether when we were young or or wherever we picked them up where there's like a sense of like, "Oh, well, this could all just go away." Like >> Yeah.
31:55
You We grew up in a house, you know, loving, beautiful household and great parents but we had no money and I remember the kind of financial burden that was on my parents and and overhearing conversations about bills and you know, them borrowing money from my grand our grandparents or their parents to, you know, before payday came on every Thursday or you know, the $20 we might have had in our piggy bank kind of saying, "Can we borrow that?
32:18
We'll give it to you next week."
32:19
And and not that they ever put that on us by any means and they probably tried to shelter us from that and um but being very aware of it.
32:27
So, I felt that responsibility and that need to um remove that pressure for them from a very early age and but still it this crazy um irrational thought that what's going to run out or it's it's going to be taken away and I won't be able to do that thing.
32:46
It's like we've already done that thing.
32:47
You know, they're all taken care of them, family, cousins, friends, you know, um and not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow but financially that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what we've put in place.
33:01
And it's I don't know, it's it's irrational, it's illogical and and but again, I think it I don't know, it's sort of I don't mind a little bit of that just to keep you hungry, you but it has to be tempered like all of it.
33:14
It's cuz the insanity of too much of that thinking is is incredibly detrimental and you never enjoy what you have because it's always about, "Ah, I need to get more and it it's not enough for what else can I do I do to secure this even more?"
33:26
do to secure this even more?" And it's this obsession with with with safety, I think we all have and and the need for abundance and then security and um but then I look at my own childhood where where I couldn't have felt more secure and safe and you know, so money isn't the answer to
33:47
that yet you sort of trick yourself into thinking it is and whether that's from societal sort of understandings and expectations and and the sort of our relationship to money as human beings and and what what how we um signal or represent safety and comfort in the wrong spaces maybe but it's a constant navigation, isn't it? Yeah, it's it it's
34:05
Yeah, it's it it's almost like what you're talking about is the power of pattern. Yeah.
34:11
It's almost like when you've had a thought Mhm.
34:12
that has been practiced so with you giving the examples of like, "Oh, we're going to borrow this money here and we'll pay it back next week."
34:19
And so, you're constantly living in a cycle of we don't have enough, we're going to have to figure it out.
34:25
And that doesn't disappear when an external situation changes and we can all relate to that.
34:29
I mean, I can I can relate to it in in my life, too.
34:31
And what I love about what you said the most was it's not about I I think everyone over and I don't I don't like it when anyone says this whole money can't buy happiness stuff because I'm like, "Well, it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people."
34:42
And I I don't think that's the point by love what you just said about this safety idea that you felt safe growing up and it wasn't because of that. >> Yeah.
34:50
>> And I think that's an even more powerful truth where it's like, "Wait a minute.
34:55
What about if it was about safety?"
34:55
And we all want to feel safe and secure.
34:57
I felt very safe and secure because my I've always described it as my mom's love was like this protective shield Yeah.
35:04
>> where I never grew up ever questioning whether I was lovable or not. Yeah.
35:08
>> Cuz my mom loved me so much.
35:08
And that makes me feel very safe. Mhm.
35:10
And that wasn't because we had money growing up and it wasn't because we always knew what was coming next.
35:15
It was because you felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of that.
35:20
>> And so, there are certain problems that money solves and it's not safety. Yeah.
35:25
Uh but and it can provide and help for that but safety is a more core emotional need that comes from other things.
35:31
It's another thing I was talking to my mom about that the fact that the lessons I learned, the person I am, my my brothers who we are you know, growing up in that household, we didn't have money.
35:43
Now, now my kids, we have money.
35:46
What's that going to do to them?
35:47
Are they going to not learn the same lessons that we had and have the same sense of sort of gratitude and appreciation things.
35:52
And she said, "You could look at, you know, households that have a lot of money, households that have little money and you could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful.
36:02
And at the end of the day, it comes down to love, security, safety.
36:06
Do I feel like I'm connected and part of this household and appreciated and that I'm safe to explore who I am as an individual um or not, you know, regardless of this sort of the exterior enviro- the larger environmental sort of superficial elements of it.
36:21
It's around those core components as as of love and connection.
36:24
And that always gives me comfort, you know, in when when I'm sitting here thinking I'm destroying my kids by you having this big house and you know, abundance and all this and so on but it's a always a complex one to sort of to navigate in any space, I guess, as well. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:39
I I think it's true though.
36:41
I think it it's what you've been saying this whole conversation already.
36:44
It's that you keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift and a curse. Yeah.
36:49
And and it is that, right? Like everything is.
36:50
Like and as soon as you accept that everything's binary Yeah.
36:55
>> and there is no black or white. >> Yeah. It is all gray. Yeah.
36:56
And it is all teaching people to see the gray and see the nuance and see the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the sense of as soon as you accept that it is all of it. >> Yeah.
37:08
Then all of a sudden it's simple whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way of doing it >> Mhm.
37:14
it's pretty impossible to find it and you can rack your brain forever.
37:16
It it is and this sort of the the thing you're searching for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for.
37:24
Like the the polarity of things, you know, and it's the you know, there's no north without a south.
37:28
There's not a one-sided mountain that this that you you know, you only know love because you know grief.
37:33
And and I had this a friend of mine passed away recently and I had this the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and the why and the questions and and then through that all of a sudden this this lightness and this stillness because all the trivial things that I was ruminating around day-to-day all of a sudden dissipated.
37:57
And it was like wow, it's that simple.
37:58
It can be gone in a second.
38:01
And I wouldn't know one without the other.
38:04
And so, the sort of grief is as much a blessing as the love is and and the joy because they coexist, you know, that they there isn't um an individual experience.
38:13
You can't have one without the other.
38:15
And and then that for me I find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life and and the sort of moments of adversity is is kind of um realizing that they're sort of one in the same thing and that that's and I don't do that I don't exist there all the time but every now and then and I feel like I get a glimpse of it and there's a quiet peacefulness to it.
38:41
You know, it's like the sort of the louder it gets all of a sudden things just stop.
38:44
Yeah, Alan Watts talks a lot about that. Yeah, I love Alan Watts.
38:46
the philosophy around what he presents in that way.
38:50
Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss.
38:52
It's like Yeah, thank you.
38:54
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's, you know, it was a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragic tragedy as as you know, we all experience at some point.
39:00
Um but it I just remember having that moment that sort of very odd sort of lightness in amongst the grief which maybe pause for a moment and consider where that came from and where that stems from and what that sort of what that message is. Yeah.
39:15
Yeah, it's how you your grief is only as deep as your love Yeah. >> be. Yeah. Yeah.
39:23
>> If you don't feel grief about something like that, well, that's probably because you didn't >> Didn't care.
39:26
have didn't have that love and care and it's but yeah, it's not that that's easy to recognize in the moment or pause and but when you get that access, it's something to worth holding on to.
39:35
Yeah, and that was the trying to reconcile the sort of dichotomy around those two two feelings, you know, that the the sort of I almost then followed this guilt that I wasn't feeling as sad as I was a moment ago.
39:46
And I was like, what is this sort of complex kind of, you know, push and pull between those two states?
39:52
Um and it's like I don't know, living in the questions rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all the time.
40:01
The sort of the answers of trying to define the definitive why to something and the absolute certainty of something is just like a danger and a trap. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure.
40:10
Yeah, and we we would just And the funny thing is even if you get a perfect right answer you still won't be satisfied with it because >> tomorrow. It will change. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
40:21
Cuz then you're like, wait a minute, if I look at it from this angle then you know, and it's it's fascinating how the human mind wants completion. >> Yeah. Yeah.
40:29
>> But still keeps locating all the incomplete loops. >> Absolutely. To to get lost in.
40:32
It's like the only certainty is uncertainty.
40:34
You know, the only constant is inconstant. It's like Yeah. Yeah.
40:40
It's a uh it does a number on you for sure.
40:42
It's like I don't know if you when you were a kid you kind of lying awake at night thinking about how big the universe is or what happens when we die and then nothing and then like uh-oh.
40:52
It's like it kind of your brain arrives at a place of nothingness, you know, and that's as terrifying as it is kind of liberating. Yeah.
40:59
Does it help to have uh brothers in the industry too? Cuz I mean that's rare. Yeah.
41:02
That that you know, all of you have got incredible careers and it's like how how does that Is it helpful to be able to share some challenges or or do you find that that's not really the case? No, it is definitely. Yeah.
41:14
There's a sort of a point of reference or or a um there's a there's a camaraderie for sure and a support network between the three of us.
41:22
Um you you're in your sort of quieter moments of reflection you can kind of go is this normal?
41:29
Am I kind of you know, wrong to feel this that and the other and what's your experience in that and so absolutely having someone who is a complete sort of, you know, safe house for those discussions is is a is a real benefit.
41:43
>> Yeah, it's really powerful.
41:43
I I feel like that's the hardest thing for most artists or athletes or people who go and live otherworldly lives. >> Mhm.
41:51
And then it's almost like you have all your best friends back home or your the people you grew up with. >> Yeah.
41:55
And you need them because they're the only ones who remind you of where you started and where it came from but they don't understand No.
42:02
>> the new world that you deal with and so you kind of have this version of it where they can reconcile with you challenges.
42:08
It's not like, oh well, Chris, you're rich and famous it doesn't matter. Yeah.
42:12
It's like they're like, oh no, those things are still real and you still experience imposter syndrome and you still experience anxiety.
42:18
And they can vouch for that because they probably go through the same thing. >> Oh, for sure.
42:22
I mean I feel very lucky for for to have them in the same space.
42:27
But the I'd say the thing that has had the biggest effect on me is that the team of people I get to work with which is from my, you know, the the hair and makeup team, um my costume guy that I travel with, um and my assistant, my trainer.
42:40
That group I've known for about 14 years.
42:43
Um my assistant, my trainer I've known for 35 years.
42:46
They went to school with them.
42:48
They're my two best mates.
42:50
And to have the five or six of us travel together is in I thought was quite common.
42:56
Why wouldn't you bring along your mates and have the same people there?
42:59
And the amount of people I've met in in the highest of positions that live this isolated lonely existence and don't have true friendships around and and groups of people who who remind them who they are really and and remind them also there's a there's a grounding quality to that.
43:14
Um I thought it is such a tragedy, you know, they give this this abundance of opportunity and this sort of um you know one in a million chance to sort of participate in this journey where you get to travel and you're dealing with all this this experience and uh activation and interaction with the world on a level that, you know, most of us wouldn't get to experience.
43:41
Yet you're doing it alone.
43:41
You you have no no one to share it with and I think that's the, you know, the about the social connection.
43:46
It's like it's only as good as the people standing either side of you that that get to walk that journey with you because you know, there's times when you become a little jaded about it.
43:55
There's times it becomes a little normal normal.
43:56
You you times when it becomes boring and you have someone to shake you and go, hey, isn't it pretty cool?
44:01
Remember where we came from?
44:03
Remember what we could be doing?
44:04
Remember what we used to do?
44:04
Um is it it is incredibly invigorating and and and I find myself um the thing I'm most grateful for I think in my career is having those core people with me constantly. Yeah.
44:15
How do How do you define a real friend?
44:20
Someone you can laugh with and who who you can laugh at each other.
44:25
And um and it's not offensive or it can be and that's okay.
44:30
Someone you can really push it too far with and they're going to go, yeah, I'll let that one slide. I'll get you next time.
44:34
A true friend who who who like keeps you humble, I think. Keeps you grounded.
44:39
The sort of the the sort of obvious things to say but you know, through thick and thin they're still standing there next to you.
44:44
And whether it was all to be tak- if it all got taken away they'd still be there having a laugh, patting you on the back saying, well, we gave it a shot.
44:54
And I've got a lot of those people in my life I'm very thankful for. Yeah. I I I love that.
44:58
It's it's definitely it's British banter is a big thing but I got to learn that Australian banter is as strong if not better as well because when I was touring in when I toured Australia two years back and we did three shows at the Sydney Opera House.
45:11
We did Melbourne and Brisbane.
45:13
And I I have lots of moments in my show where I bring people up on stage and we're going through all sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would banter back. Yeah.
45:24
Like there was no one who's letting me get away with a joke at their expense.
45:27
And I was like, this is amazing. It was so much fun. Everyone was so fast. >> Yeah. >> were great.
45:31
Like >> It's good there's a good self-deprecating sort of quality. >> Yeah, yeah. And and I love that too.
45:36
It's I I feel like, you know, I I have a I have a WhatsApp group with all my best mates back in London. >> Yeah.
45:41
And all we do is just roast each other all day long.
45:43
So whether someone posts something on social media or send this video out whatever it is and I think that that's such a good test of friendship. >> Oh, for sure.
45:52
>> And and when we when me and my my wife from London too, when we moved to America, we me and my wife roast each other just as you would roast one of your boys.
45:59
And everyone on my team would just think we were having a massive argument cuz they just weren't used to it.
46:04
So they thought we hated each other.
46:06
>> that's a love language. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
46:07
We're like, no, this is our, you know, it's not passive-aggressive.
46:10
This is just this is just how it works. Yeah.
46:11
I think that there was a there was a study done recently in the I don't know where I read it but talking about that it is a sign of true friendship that you can roast each other and give each other And it's a sign that there is a um I don't know.
46:25
There there's a trust there because you don't I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't know that well and didn't trust that it was going to go okay with it.
46:32
I'd be I'd be a I'd be in trouble. Yeah.
46:35
Talk Talk about the worst the worst was when I first moved to LA and I was learning about getting a stylist and Yeah.
46:40
all this kind of stuff and my friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the red carpet.
46:45
Keep putting them in the group and they're like, why are you wearing a skirt? What are you doing?
46:49
What I'm sure you've had a million of those. Oh, for sure. Yeah.
46:50
I've most of my who send me pictures of like, you know, certain sort of fashion sort of moments and looks and it's like, oh, it's number seven you know, the hand on the ear and the scratch above the head and and you kind of I find myself doing those shoots and then stopping myself cuz Yeah.
47:04
three or four guys back home are going to see it and tell me about it.
47:08
Rather than the the vast majority of people who might not think twice about it. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love that. And you need that. You need that for sure. >> Yeah, you need that.
47:15
I think about it all the time.
47:16
Every time my hair stylist tries a new hairstyle or whatever it is I'm like, yeah, all right.
47:19
I know who's I know who's going to send me a picture of this tomorrow. Yeah.
47:22
Uh it was I'm I'm so grateful that I got to see the documentary because uh I I went through a really and I share this because of how powerful it was for me to watch it.
47:34
And so my greatest spiritual mentor who I grew up with around in London he passed away during the pandemic.
47:43
And I couldn't go back to his funeral.
47:43
I I was I was stuck in the United States and he was he was based in London and I just remember finding out.
47:51
It was almost like everything changed for him and changed for us in like a night.
47:54
It felt that way at least.
47:56
When when we became aware.
47:59
Yeah, no, no, but it was watching your experience with your father was was so beautiful because it was all the I was like, people are going to watch this and they're going to know what to do. Mhm.
48:12
And that is such a beautiful thing to give people.
48:14
It's such a gift to give to people because I didn't know cuz I'd never been through I'd never seen anyone publicly go through it.
48:20
So when I watched it and I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching right now to watch it too because it it gave me a real resolve to be like, yeah, this is going to help people.
48:28
It's going to help a lot of people. Right.
48:29
Um and and I wanted to ask you about that.
48:32
Your your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
48:34
It's like, what was that like the day you found out?
48:36
Like what How did Well, how did you even notice it before the day you found out?
48:40
Did you start to notice things? Um yeah yeah. It's It's funny.
48:44
I remember in the first season of Limitless um and Peter Attia Yeah.
48:49
uh we I did a bunch of blood work and you know, looking at my genetics and the plan was on camera he was going to tell me about, you know, what I had a predisposition to and what I had a vulnerability to, what my strengths were and so on.
49:05
And he said, oh, I don't want to do this on camera.
49:06
I got to talk to you about something.
49:07
And I thought, oh god, what is this, you know?
49:08
And Darren Aronofsky called me and said, Peter wants to call you.
49:11
And and I got really nervous about what he was going to tell me.
49:15
And and he said, you've got two copies of the APOE4 gene which you get a copy each from from each parent. A two's not so bad.
49:23
A three's a little worse.
49:24
The four's the the worst one and you've got two.
49:28
And it basically I think 1% of the population has two copies of this these these genes and it puts you in a high risk category for Alzheimer's.
49:34
It's not a pre-deterministic gene, it's it's it's just an indication that you do you have a greater vulnerability to Alzheimer's.
49:44
He told me that and I was like a moment of sort of shock, a moment of what does mean, and then about 15 minutes later I was like, ah, it's just something old people get, whatever.
49:52
I told my parents about it and I remember my dad saying, ah, look, don't don't worry about it, we'll figure it out.
49:58
That's, you know, you don't And I was like, yeah, I'm not concerned, it's just a strange thing to be told and he was like, it's fine, mate, you know, plenty of time where you don't figure out what you need to do to prevent it and so on.
50:09
And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of telling me not to be concerned about it.
50:15
And then about two or three years later my mom saying to me, I think we've got to get dad checked because there's these signs and things I'm concerned about.
50:26
Um, the obvious one's memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and forgetfulness and so on.
50:33
So, we he went and got tested and um found out he had two copies of the APOE4. Um, as did my mom.
50:41
Which so you got one in the one in the 1% of population is APOE4.
50:43
What I don't know what the math is on an APOE2 finding each other.
50:49
So, then by default me, Luke, and Liam all have two copies of APOE4.
50:53
So, this sort of anomaly of of um of genetics or combinations and but my dad because I was immediately hit with the the reality of what that meant for him because I had just gone through a ah, it's a long way down the track, don't worry, push it aside, then all of a sudden it was right in front of us.
51:13
And and it was incre- incredibly it confronting, but again, I think the um we'll figure it out mentality was was was still very prominent.
51:24
Um, and then as it began to get worse we it became a real sort of shaking into the moment and a real sort of um shock to the system and oh, wow, this sort of everything we thought was solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change and shift.
51:41
Um yeah, and then and then and then we um I remember when when I was looking at doing another episode for that series the discussion around would I do something around brain health with my dad.
51:57
And my first instinct was I just spent a lot of the press tour over the previous show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheimer's and you know, and I said, ah, I don't want to go through that, but I also don't want to exploit or feel like I'm in any way putting him in an uncomfortable position or exploiting this kind of condition.
52:15
And how's it going to make him feel?
52:15
And I spoke to him about it and he was like, oh, absolutely, yeah, no, that's you know, maybe this will help shed some light on the issue and people will benefit from it and we might learn something along the way and and off we went and in in that direction, but there was a huge amount of grace and humility and in in his attitude to it, you know, he says it in the documentary, but his his concern was being a burden. Yeah.
52:36
And um and that was heartbreaking to to hear and consider and and I'd never even up until we shot the documentary I I didn't know even how he felt about it, you know, cuz I hadn't asked him.
52:52
And I felt this strange mix of sort of guilt while shooting as well as concern for for his condition, but guilt that I hadn't had an asked this prior and now I'm doing it on camera.
53:05
And so it was this strange sort of orchestration of events, but what came out of it and it wasn't planned was this beautiful sort of connection that my dad and I were able to have and this beautiful discussion that we probably wouldn't have had otherwise.
53:21
And someone who had just seen it recently he said, I'm about at the same you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago in the same space as your dad's in and he said, I wish my kids could see this documentary.
53:33
I hope they see it because there's so much stigma around it they don't know what to say, they don't even talk to me about it, they don't ask me how I'm feeling about it, they don't ask me am I afraid? Am I concerned?
53:42
What am I concerned about?
53:45
They just sort of talk to me about the footy or they talk to me about, you know, work.
53:49
And that was a sort of a beautiful moment of realization.
53:53
realization. I was there with my dad and I said, this is hopefully what, you know, this is going to do for people is is um it motivate people into reaching out and removing the sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations
54:08
and actually reaching out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable, allowing each other to talk about their fears and their concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to again, having blinkers on and sort of burying our heads in the sand, you know. Yeah. I feel like this is Yeah.
54:22
I feel like this is you know, it's it's almost it's such a big thing and it's such a hard thing that it's hard to be like oh, when we've had hard things happen in the family before we'd talk about it.
54:33
This is this is different to that.
54:37
Even though everyone's an adult now. Yeah.
54:39
>> You know, your family and everyone's grown up, it's it's a difficult conversation to have and it's have you as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations and difficult conversations or has there not really been a need to have one and No, we we we have.
54:54
But there hasn't been a need as um uh as I guess as as important as this one, you know, it wasn't as personal.
55:03
Like we we've obviously had you know, people die and and situations occur and things that we were all you know, confronting and and and the you you know, human experience of tragedy and and and and so on, but it wasn't as in front of us as this was.
55:19
And the interesting the complex thing about I think dementia and Alzheimer's is it's when the signs first start to show, they're very subtle.
55:30
So, you still sort of think oh, we can manage this, you know.
55:34
And um and then it gets over time a little worse and depending on the regression, you know, some people it happens in 6 months and they're they're sort of vegetable catatonic state.
55:45
Whereas and then some people it's a it's a slower regression.
55:51
And and and so again, there's there's an easy um option to sort of ignore those subtle changes and I and and I think this experience made it um far more prominent for all of us that we had to pay attention to it.
56:08
And even my mom had said, you know, my dad did the interview, she's like, I've never even heard him talk like that.
56:12
I didn't even know he felt that.
56:14
I didn't know he was experiencing that.
56:15
experiencing that. And because he didn't want to put that burden upon someone else and and and um and so yeah, I I I I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to to you know, be and embark on this sort of journey with him and have that
56:32
as far as the documentary went because it it ignited something in in I think all of us in my family to to be a lot more proactive and a lot more present and and a lot more connected because, you know, we're watching sort of memories disappear in front of us. The first time
56:47
The first time you're going through it, you like and same as it my experience like before the pandemic, before he did pass away, I would go back to see him. Yeah.
56:55
And every time I'd go back, I'd notice especially because I was living in LA.
57:00
So, every time I'd go back I'd notice big changes than the people who were with him every day. Mhm.
57:05
And it was like I'd go back maybe every 4 months to see him or whatever it was.
57:10
And it's like the first time he he'd still remember my name, but he'd forget that I was there after like 10 minutes and then say hello again.
57:17
And then the next time I'd go, he'd remember my name, but then he'd only he'd forget me every 30 seconds or whatever it was.
57:23
And then, you know, you just I saw that decline because I wasn't with him every day.
57:26
How long between when he was Oh my god.
57:30
>> diagnosed and when he >> Maybe like I think I'd have to check the exact time, but maybe like 3 to 4 years. >> Wow. Yeah, like 3 to yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
57:37
So, it's it's my the same time my dad was diagnosed, um the a friend of ours was diagnosed.
57:44
And my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to our friend of ours who who can barely speak and that glazed vague look of sort of confusion comes 24/7.
57:58
Um my dad has the short-term memory, you know, and and it's the older memories are still very strong and everything.
58:04
He can sit here and recognize people, but there's some repetition now occurring more than it was.
58:10
But um you know, I'm thankful that it's hasn't happened as fast as a lot of instances, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
58:18
>> about probably four, maybe even five years ago. You know.
58:22
Yeah, that's yeah, I know, I'm happy to hear that, too.
58:23
And it was it's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood home like rebuilt rebuilt redesigned and when everyone watches it, they'll know what I mean when I say that, but just like Yeah.
58:32
it's such a special thing to do.
58:34
Like I I I can't imagine what it felt like for him and for you to even go back there as like a Yeah, and it's funny fully grown adult cuz he was an adult when he was there last, but you know.
58:43
No, and it was um the reminiscence therapy is what it was called about, you know, that this basically um stimulating old memories in the hippocampus and and and triggering memories that held a great amount of or larger um emotional responses.
58:57
So, whether it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve-wracking those intense memories to stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past.
59:12
What we did was a very elaborate supercharged version of that.
59:16
You know, we had a a film crew with us and a production and and they basically took the house that we grew up in and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever, you know, that we had as kids and set the house up the way it was when we lived there.
59:37
And it was um beyond sort of comprehension that when I first walked in, I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt about it because my brain didn't know what to do with it.
59:47
And um and it was remarkable sort of seeing my dad sort of come to life in moments and and and it trigger all of these other memories and um but it and then my mom going through the house and it triggering a different experience for her, you know, it's a reminder of the passage of time and the memories she had then, but the memories we may not have, you know, in in a few years' time or that are just disappearing.
1:00:13
Uh but it was um yeah, a pretty wild experience.
1:00:18
>> Yeah, yeah, it's just really takes you back and it's I I imagine that while you're doing this, because you're doing the supercharged version, there's a sense of I wonder how your thoughts and how making memories has changed. Mhm.
1:00:32
Because we say that as humans, like, "Oh, we should make Let's make memories."
1:00:35
But I don't know if we really think about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced with Yeah.
1:00:42
>> not knowing how many more you can make and how many of the past So, how is How is your thought process on like make the idea of making memories been impacted?
1:00:48
I think my time that I spend with him now is um is is a lot simpler than than I would have thought I would have attempted in the past.
1:01:01
I always thought there had to be a bigger experience for me to do something, you know, incredibly memorable.
1:01:08
incredibly memorable. And so And I've realized now that the the greatest moments are just sitting there being with him and and seeing him have someone listen to him and see him have someone see him and pay attention and and watching him through this even this
1:01:24
documentary, all of a sudden he had agency in something again, you know, and and not just because of the certainly having Alzheimer's, the awareness around I'm losing control and I'm I can't sort of lead the pack or be in charge of, you know, the space. I'm very much a passenger or maybe a
1:01:43
I'm very much a passenger or maybe a patient.
1:01:46
But also that thing that happens at a certain age.
1:01:50
I've watched my parents, you know, the last kind of 10 years, the transition of well, they've been the authority and now they're looking to us.
1:01:58
And what that does to the ego and all and it's it's it takes a great amount of grace and humility to go, "Oh, I now have to seek support where I used to lead the way."
1:02:13
And I And I don't have the answers to that.
1:02:14
And now, you know, um my kids may be the authority on a lot of these subjects, you know, even though we thought we were, you know, all through our egoic youthful times.
1:02:24
But the um that sort of transition and so for him, that was really You know, I looked at that making the documentary as a I thought I was really thankful for watching him.
1:02:36
And a lot of the crew said this, "Wow, as the days went on, he really sort of took charge and felt like he was in the driver's seat again."
1:02:42
And I think that's really important for for people to remember is to still give them some agency and still as much as there is a lack of control, but I don't know, it it allowing them to embody some authority and narrative on their life as opposed to like, "Now you just have to sit in this space and and um have your hand out and Yeah, yeah.
1:03:04
You think you're helping, but actually you're hurting.
1:03:06
>> Yeah, it's it's like you and I try and you know, I ask my dad questions I know the answers to, but just to I know he he'll feel like he has um Hopefully he doesn't hear this cuz I He will forget it anyway.
1:03:21
Um but you know, I I'll ask him things just to sort of stimulate some again agency and and authority in his thinking, but I mean, it must have been pretty amazing to see him ride a motorcycle.
1:03:32
Yeah, I mean, he still rides and >> yeah, that's pretty impressive.
1:03:34
Like when I saw that, I was like, "Wow, that's That must feel great for him to get because he used to be a Yeah.
1:03:39
You know, it it just to me that that also must feel like some agency for him to still be so active in that way because >> Yeah.
1:03:47
And that's the thing I think I'm most scared for for him and I think probably he is is there'll come a time when he won't be able to do those things.
1:03:54
And at the moment, you know, I mean, he still races in historic races with old Harleys and different bikes and things and you know, he'll blitz the pack and young blokes will rock up on their bikes and he's to go and they'll go, "Whoa, who is this guy?"
1:04:06
And he ends up on the podium a lot of the times in these races.
1:04:09
He's an incredible rider still.
1:04:13
Um but I don't know at what point that will occur.
1:04:16
But that that for me, I brings me great concern, you know, as it does for him as well.
1:04:20
Because it will be the I think the most obvious representation of um the lack of agency and and the the you taking a real backseat to things, you know. Yeah.
1:04:31
Well, no, hearing you talk about it is just genuinely so as as hard as it is for you and obviously for your family and even just hearing you say how hard it was to make a documentary about something so personal, I definitely think that even hearing you talk about it today, I'm like, this is helping people because I feel like there's so many I It's not talked about enough and there are so many families that go through it.
1:04:57
And like you said, it's it's so easy to pretend like it's not happening or try and just tell that person what actually happened because that's what our logical brain does.
1:05:04
And What What did you learn about your dad through this experience only that you wish you'd learned sooner or understood earlier?
1:05:14
You My My dad had um he's certainly he's has always been my hero, you know, he's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion and and strength and um a great uh deep profound sense of justice and injustice and right and wrong and and has been very present and vocal about situations like that.
1:05:36
You know, he worked in in child protection and taking care of the most vulnerable of us and being children, you know.
1:05:41
And um and that he the big shoes to fill, you know, and and and but I think what what I didn't realize watching this documentary was that he had all the same fears and concerns that that I had or I have.
1:05:55
And um and he isn't um unshakable and unmovable and he's human and and and watching him be vulnerable and express concern and and fear about things made me love him on an on an even deeper level, you know, it's like, "Oh, wow, it it the walls came down, you know?"
1:06:15
And I don't think he was presenting those walls out of avoidance, but there wasn't he wasn't as um I not emotionally invaluable, but but he wouldn't let you see that side of him as much.
1:06:31
And now there's this a gentler sort of open, vulnerable side which um that I that I wasn't aware of as much as before, you know.
1:06:41
before, you know. And uh I think that I'm very thankful for that, you know, it's quite beautiful sort of watching his interviews which I wasn't present for, but the master interviews that I watched afterwards, I was like,
1:06:52
"Oh my god, I had no idea that those were the things he was considering, but also the sense of humor he had with it and that the humility and the sort of self-deprecating sort of nature that he he had even in discussing the most difficult of things, you know. Yeah, it must be really special that you
1:07:08
Yeah, it must be really special that you have all those tapes. Yeah, absolutely.
1:07:12
I had um I think you said this at at the start of our chat, but he I had a friend of mine say cuz I was really concerned about doing this and even through it and even after we'd finished, I was talking to the director.
1:07:23
I was like, "Oh, it's just a good thing if I, you know, again, I don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this."
1:07:31
And he said, "You know, I lost my father really suddenly and never had a chance to have these conversations.
1:07:38
And the fact that you've been able to have this experience and force these conversations out of one another, um what a gift."
1:07:46
And then so many people who were at the screening, the premiere a few weeks ago, said, "I wish I had done this or I am now am going to do this.
1:07:54
I'm now going to reach out to my parents or that loved one or friend that I hadn't said these things to because um it was just a reminder of the fleeting nature and of all of it, you know." Yeah.
1:08:05
Well, that's that's what's amazing about it that it it doesn't have to be Alzheimer's.
1:08:08
Like, you know, >> Yeah, you know.
1:08:10
It's just about having time and space to reconnect and see your parents for who they Yeah.
1:08:16
>> are and who they didn't show you because they were protecting you and who they didn't want to or they weren't ready to.
1:08:22
And and it's hard because we all have Everyone has different relationships with their parents and everything, but there's there's something beautiful about being able to just sit there and see them and them being them allowing you >> Cuz even like making the documentary was
1:08:35
like on one hand I sort of we're you know, we're out to sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and and and find the fix, find the silver bullet, you know, um look into reminiscence therapy, look into different medications, look into different modalities and approaches on how to handle it. And then by the end of it, it was
1:08:52
And then by the end of it, it was exactly that.
1:08:53
It was like, "Oh, well, this is about connection.
1:08:55
This is universal to all of our experience.
1:08:57
This isn't just about Alzheimer's.
1:08:59
This is about supporting one another and being there for one another and being part of a family and a community and that inter connected nature of all of it as opposed to one line with dementia or Alzheimer's cognitive health.
1:09:13
It was about it was about love and support and and connection.
1:09:15
And that for me was the biggest takeaway, I think, you know, or as equally as sort of beneficial to the connection with my dad was about what it meant universally to all of my relationships.
1:09:28
What what did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware of or that you hadn't come across before?
1:09:31
I felt just that I was doing something right, I think.
1:09:36
I know this sounds kind of strange, but I I I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it.
1:09:42
And then I was sitting at the premiere and my dad kept like holding my hand and just never done that, you know.
1:09:49
And he was both emotional and laughing and and and I thought ah, wow, this is like out of all the things I've done and things I've put on screen and the and the things I've made, this feels profoundly important and and and deeply personal but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again. And um and I don't know.
1:10:16
It it it a little bit of what we're saying before, but yeah, I I I don't walk around thinking I've sort of um I am the thing I guess I I try and present of having figured it out and having this sort of um you know, being in total control of things.
1:10:32
I've more doubt than you know, I don't know.
1:10:35
Well, as much doubt as anyone or more doubt than anyone, I don't know.
1:10:38
But but I have a lot of inner criticism and and so on. And this I don't know.
1:10:43
I I felt a real lift in in that and I felt like there was plenty of there there are plenty more opportunities or should be to do things that have a deeper and and and can resonate um on a larger scale.
1:10:57
And they can mean something.
1:11:02
It doesn't just have to be purely entertainment.
1:11:04
It doesn't just have to be it can have a deeper message, you know. And um I don't know.
1:11:11
I cut myself some slack, I guess.
1:11:15
I was like a total sense of sort of pride that I hadn't felt before.
1:11:17
Yeah, I love hearing that.
1:11:19
I'm I'm glad you're finally you know, giving yourself some credit.
1:11:23
And I'm not saying I'm kind of you know, disapproving of everything I've done and you know, but but I don't know.
1:11:29
It resonated on a different level to me. >> Yeah. I think that's real. I I think it's real.
1:11:34
I think I think that's they just feed different things, right?
1:11:38
In the same ways that you can make something purely entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh and whatever it is.
1:11:43
Making something that personal Yeah.
1:11:45
there's there's nothing like it.
1:11:47
Like I'm sure it was almost more gratifying watching your dad watch himself >> Oh, 100%.
1:11:53
>> was ever seeing any of your movies because that's how we're designed.
1:11:55
Like I feel like we're like we're we're wired for generosity as humans and we're wired for that connection.
1:12:01
So, it's it's um you know, when when you're seeing that person that you love watch themselves. >> Yeah.
1:12:08
It's way better than seeing yourself on the screen.
1:12:10
>> He was sitting next to me and I spent as much time looking to him to sit as I did at the screen and at the end of the the the film something he said to me on the my first ever film I was in a small part in Star Trek and he flew in for the premiere in LA with my mom and and at the end of the film he grabbed me, kissed me on the top of the head and he goes, you were the best in your row.
1:12:31
And every single film I've done he's like, you were the best in your row.
1:12:33
You know, you you were the best in your class type thing.
1:12:36
And it's this like his way of saying, you know, and then he would go on and give it the greatest sort of summary of it all, but then I leaned over to him and I said, you're the best in your row. And and he goes, yeah.
1:12:49
Not as bad as I thought it was going to be.
1:12:52
This again is the wicked sense of humor about it. >> Yeah.
1:12:55
No, he comes across I mean, yeah, obviously I've never met your dad, but like he comes across like so lovable, so charming, so endearing, like just you know, just a just a great dad.
1:13:05
Like he definitely like you know, he should know that >> human, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
1:13:10
A good a good like good people, good good human.
1:13:12
And there's that beautiful picture that almost the whole documentary's kind of centered around.
1:13:18
Of you know, you and your dad and I was wondering if you if you would go back to that younger self in that picture what would you say to that younger self? Um I don't know.
1:13:31
I would be I'd be cautious to say anything because it it's all it's worked out pretty well, you know.
1:13:38
Um The slightly older version of that kid, I'd say it's going to be okay in those sort of worrisome nights that that I would kind of spin my wheels on one subject or another and be full of concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and those kind of strange um concoction of emotions.
1:13:58
I don't know why, but uh I would like to appease and remove some of that if I could to my younger self by saying don't worry.
1:14:03
Just trust in the in the process and go with the flow a little more, you know.
1:14:11
But then again as I said, I'm I wouldn't change anything, so So weird, yeah.
1:14:15
I wouldn't want to steer myself off the path.
1:14:18
Yeah, it's like almost if you went back and did that, then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today.
1:14:23
>> I want the same outcome, but I want it to be less challenging. Isn't that all of us? That's so funny.
1:14:28
That that's literally it.
1:14:28
It's like that's that would that is everyone's desire in life.
1:14:32
It's almost like >> Yeah. never the case.
1:14:35
It's all even this even you making this documentary was it was uncomfortable.
1:14:39
And now you're sitting back reflecting going Yeah. I'm really proud of it. It made me feel good.
1:14:44
My you know, sitting with my dad.
1:14:46
Like but it was an uncomfortable journey of do I make it? Do I not?
1:14:48
Is it how's it going to look?
1:14:50
And so it's such a the discomfort to joy Yeah.
1:14:55
>> arc is so real for all humans. >> And I don't know.
1:14:57
No matter how many times you tell yourself the adversity is what builds the strength, whether it's in the gym or whether it's at emotional experiences.
1:15:04
It's like you'll be better for this afterwards, always. Always. Yet each time like why? Why me? Why again? Why is this happening? How can I avoid this?
1:15:13
How can I you know, and it's like it's a it's a I don't know whether you ever arrive at a place where you're just completely on board with the suffering and the challenges and the adversity in your life.
1:15:24
But then if you did, then it wouldn't be suffering, so then you're not learning anything like Then then you're not working out then you're not then you're not actually going through it. >> I'm okay with this.
1:15:33
Like it's cuz it's not hurting enough.
1:15:36
Give me an extra 10 reps, you know. Oh, okay, there it is.
1:15:38
It's it's like when you've been in the cold plunge for 7 minutes and now it's not you've just normalized it.
1:15:42
It doesn't matter anymore.
1:15:43
You're just in there for the ego boost now.
1:15:46
>> it's not doing anything. You need to do it eight.
1:15:48
It's like What do you think that younger self in that picture or even a bit older would say back to you?
1:15:55
I think I'd be I'd be like, what what what we're going where?
1:15:57
You know, and have the I and I think that often about if my younger self knew what was in store or what was coming, they would be yeah, we're going to play a superhero?
1:16:09
We're going to we're going to dress up and we travel the world and and and and be on this crazy crazy adventure with our friends and I think I think they'd be I think they'd be grateful.
1:16:22
I think they'd be excited.
1:16:22
I think they'd uh they'd like try was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught up in the the next one or the the over calculation of it all, you know.
1:16:34
Yeah, it's almost like that it's almost like living life from that perspective is the only Yeah. worthy one.
1:16:40
Because from that lens you look at it and you go, oh, I'm grateful. I'm happy. I'm joyful and Yeah.
1:16:44
And and there's some power in just looking back at your life from that younger self.
1:16:52
>> Yeah, and they'd look up and go you're doing a good job, you know, and They wouldn't have the criticism.
1:16:59
>> Yeah, it's it's like who are you you're trying to better the situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream you had then or this sort of the thing you um you know, the the the sort of the prior imagining of it all, you know, and yeah, and I've thought about that before.
1:17:21
Like the younger self would be wildly impressed by it, you know. So, so should you. Yeah.
1:17:30
But you know, you're like, what is am I?
1:17:33
Well, that's the funny part, right?
1:17:33
That that that younger self that's still inside of us >> Yeah.
1:17:37
is the part of us that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the harsh words and just has like this childlike excitement and thrill and enthusiasm. >> Yeah.
1:17:46
And it's still there inside all of us.
1:17:48
It's just you don't you almost don't let it breathe because you kind of treat it as like not as smart or >> Yeah.
1:17:54
not as intelligent, you know, we've I mean, that's the and that is what I I I I chase all the time in a in a performance setting is like what how would the what would my mindset be as a child in this in this situation?
1:18:10
What would I how vivid would my imagination be?
1:18:11
How how you know, let it run wild and every now and then I get a hold of that or I find myself in that state and it's completely unencumbered with thought and the criticism and you're like flying.
1:18:24
You're in the moment, you know.
1:18:25
And um and I I had Downey Robert Downey say this to me once in a scene where I sort of improvised something and something happened and he comes up and he goes, how do you feel? I said, I felt good. That was pretty good.
1:18:35
He goes, it happens like a couple of times in a career.
1:18:38
He goes, grab a hold of it. Remember it. I was like, yeah.
1:18:39
But what it was was that un that that the non-judgmental childlike version of myself, you know.
1:18:47
And I think to take that into all aspects of life, not just when I was in front of a camera has been really important and was has been a real lesson is to to um be more adventurous and and inquisitive and curious and not so much for
1:19:04
outcome base focused, you know, just be sort of moment to moment and allowing that sort of the cheekiness of children and the sort of the slight rebellious sort of you know, um less concerned with the rules version of ourselves come out. You know, but
1:19:16
You know, but like you said, you're like, well, but then it's uh you You that that's uh that's it's inconsistent with how the the your adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and so on.
1:19:25
It's like Ah, it doesn't matter. I don't know. Anyone getting hurt? No. Yeah. >> We'll carry on.
1:19:32
Yeah, I think there's a big difference between being childlike and childish. Yeah, that's yeah.
1:19:37
>> And and we don't often know the difference and so we pressure down or suppress our childlike self >> Yeah.
1:19:43
because we we're scared we might get childish and it's the intelligent self sees the childish part and goes, "Oh, whatever." Yeah.
1:19:50
>> But but it's the childlike self that we know exists and has that power.
1:19:52
There's this When I'm doing workshops, I have this thing called the 30 circles test.
1:19:55
It's basically an A4 piece of paper with 30 circles on it.
1:20:00
And I'll do this with executives across the world and big companies and all the rest of it and I'll say, "You've got 30 seconds to uniquely complete 30 circles."
1:20:06
That's the only instruction they get and they all have a pencil.
1:20:10
So, everyone starts scribbling, there's a timer and then the time starts going down and then I go, "5 4 3 2 1 time's up."
1:20:16
Some of them keep scribbling like, you know, trying to get some more time in and then they stop and I ask them what they've done and the top five answers are always someone wrote the numbers 1 to 30 in every circle.
1:20:28
The second answer is people wrote A to Z and then A B C D.
1:20:33
And then people do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces, footballs, pizzas, all that kind of stuff.
1:20:41
And that's pretty much it.
1:20:41
And these are like the smartest executives, CMOs, CEOs, whatever of all the big, you know, Fortune 500 companies and all the rest of it.
1:20:47
And then I've done the same thing with kids and with 10-year-olds usually and I learned this from the person who built the 30 circles test and uh the kids just come up with these amazing things.
1:21:01
So, this one boy he put a line around it put a little sign on top and then put lines on the circles and when I asked him what it was, he said it was a bag of tennis balls.
1:21:12
And because he plays tennis.
1:21:12
And then there was this other girl who she did all this intricate line work like straight lines on each piece and different things.
1:21:19
When I asked her what it was, she said it was a bird's-eye view of a chessboard.
1:21:24
And and cuz she she loves playing chess and then my favorite one I always remember this one there's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves and all this kind of stuff.
1:21:31
When I asked her what it was, she held the paper like this.
1:21:33
She goes, "It's bubble wrap." Mhm.
1:21:35
And it was just like this really like childlike, you know, and you never get an adult doing any of them. >> No.
1:21:40
Because we just hear 30 seconds 30 seconds Mhm. get the job done. Yeah.
1:21:42
And you get you get these kids who just have this little bit of freedom still where they haven't got trained to Yeah.
1:21:49
shut that out, but >> um you know, deeply embedded our neural pathways around ideas and and and uh expectations and you know, the assumption around the right and the wrong.
1:22:05
It's you know, the the mind this is is wide open at that point and yeah.
1:22:10
I think we all can do with a heavy dose of getting back to that that that that the time of our life.
1:22:16
Yeah, you you've been married for 15 years now. Yeah. >> Right? Something like that. Yeah, totally right.
1:22:20
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, 15 years.
1:22:22
Uh and and you've got three wonderful children and you know, it's like and how old's the oldest now? Uh my daughter's 13 now. India, right? Yeah, yeah.
1:22:31
>> Yeah, yeah, so she's 13, yeah.
1:22:31
What would you say your kids have taught you uh that you didn't anticipate they would?
1:22:39
>> Um ah it's I'd like to say they taught me patience.
1:22:44
They're attempting to teach you patience, you know, cuz I don't know that I've figured it out. >> Yeah.
1:22:47
I mean it it took about the ways you kind of you know, can be in control and be in authority in spaces and and and have it all figured out and then you that door opens and it's just chaos and it's like, "I'm failing on every at every single component of this."
1:23:01
The again, the importance of of of time, you know, and and the things that I thought were going to bring great joy and the things that I was going to provide and give comfort security it's far simpler than that.
1:23:17
it's far simpler than that. It's attention, you know, they want your presence, they want your your space, they want your focus and um and we overcomplicate it so often with the attempts at sort of more extravagant experiences and things and yet they just want your time, you know,
1:23:38
and that for me has been terrifying at times re- realizing how quick it's gone, you know, and I think I'll get to that and then a year goes by and I've done a couple of films and whatever and going, "Oh, well, what which part of their um you know, brief childhood have I have I missed?" And
1:23:57
And so the the the they've taught me greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their personalities change every second and every day and every week and every month and and you kind of you're mourning a version of that child every month because they're gone, you know, you look at this sort of the the three-year-old and you think, "Oh, wow, this is it and can't wait till they're out they're out of nappies and doing this."
1:24:22
And then all of a sudden they're four and five and they're out of nappies and you've put the stroller away and you're like, "Oh God, I wish I had that version back."
1:24:29
And then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of these people and um so just pay attention, just be here, be present and they don't care about the the things that all the sort of larger achievements and you know, an award or a big film or this and that and the other, you know, if they do momentarily or it's cool whatever gone.
1:24:51
They just want you there.
1:24:51
And and that's comforting I find, you know, because there's a the pressure you put on yourself about those those, you know, more superficial sort of accomplishments and things um are important on one hand, but but not as important as just being there. Yeah.
1:25:07
Yeah, what what's been the what's been the key to 15 years together?
1:25:12
Um having fun, I think, you know, both having a sort of an adventurous spirit making time for one another.
1:25:22
I mean the the complicated times have been when it's been all work, all kids and all of a sudden the us in the relationship is is what is sort of the non-existent, you know, you're you're uh you're just kind of managing a household or the work family schedule and Elsa will be off and working and I'll be
1:25:41
off and working and then it's chaos at kids and the kid kid time and and so it's sort of um removing ourselves from all of that and just having time for the two of us and making space for each other rather than the rest of the world that can be so um all consuming, you know. Yeah, that must
1:25:56
Yeah, that must be so hard though, right? With your schedule.
1:26:00
>> Yeah, it it it is it is.
1:26:00
It's it's um I think it's just hard as sort of for anyone really, you know, it's it's all relative and you know, we yeah, it's challenging, but we also have opportunity to make it work.
1:26:14
We have no excuse as far as like how um how much time we can make for each other due to the support we can get and due to do to our situation.
1:26:22
So, um yeah, just just making each other laugh, you know, just kind of because there's so the there's so much over sort of focus on these kind of the importance and the intense sort of things and the big decisions and then it's the same with the kids.
1:26:40
It's like the the stuff that really resonates when you really get along and you really kind of feel like you're just here in this space is when there's this humor and >> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:26:50
>> Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. adventure when there's curiosity when there's um openness to kind of make a fool of yourself and self-deprecation and all that it it's I think is it the that's what you can hold there, you know, there's always that spark and that
1:27:05
attraction, but what it comes down to is it's friendship, companionship at the end and and the moment you run out of things to talk about and you you lack that curiosity and interest in one another is you know, that's when it's concerning, but Yeah. and that's it, you know,
1:27:19
and that's it, you know, you got to you you keep digging, you know, you sort of again coming to some arrival or or insisting on a sort of final conclusion to it.
1:27:30
Is this a finish line then, you know?
1:27:31
It's to understand you don't entirely ever know each other and you'll continue to try and figure it out and and as you're trying to figure as you're trying to greater have a greater understanding of yourself as well in that experience I think is important to keep at the the front of your thinking, you know, it
1:27:48
allows you to forgive each other, it allows you to be more compassionate with each other, it allows you to have greater understandings for both your shortcomings and and and the things we might um you know, the the the lesser versions of ourselves that we that we might think of um yeah, I think it's that that you know, has kept us in check. Yeah, I
1:28:08
Yeah, I love the part of you saying when you still don't know each other.
1:28:13
Like you're still getting to know like that's that's I think such a beautiful thing if like you're you still believe Yeah.
1:28:20
>> there's more to know about this person Yeah.
1:28:23
that you see every day Yeah.
1:28:25
>> and live with and you still believe no, there's more to know. I don't know them fully. >> Yeah.
1:28:29
>> And that that keeps it fresh and new and exciting because there's an acceptance whereas as soon as you think, "Oh, I know them." Yeah.
1:28:36
>> And I know their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do. >> Yeah.
1:28:40
And there is a part of that and that's a helpful thing.
1:28:41
Like, "Oh, I know when they're tired and I know when they need space and I know when they're hungry or hangry or whatever it may be." >> Yeah.
1:28:48
And that's helpful, of course it is, but then it's also the acceptance of I actually don't know them because they're changing and they're growing and I haven't seen the mother version or the mother of three or the mother, you know, there's there's all these iterations that we almost think, "Well, no, people stay the same." >> Yeah.
1:29:01
Yeah, and it is and and it's having a sort of um allowance for that and a bit of compassion around you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely, you know, how how could we ever entirely know somebody else and and and but you have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to sort of embody the humility to go, "Oh, I don't entirely understand or know that, but that's okay.
1:29:27
I don't have to um I don't have to, you know?
1:29:30
I I don't have to entirely you know, there's sort of a pattern recognition and you have your expectations and so on, but having a little more openness to um and then and then and and curiosity and enthusiasm to understand what is it that makes you tick today versus tomorrow versus yesterday, you know?
1:29:52
As opposed to thinking, "I know all of your tricks and you know all of mine." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:29:58
It takes away the sort of presumption, I guess, that we have around each other, which is you know, it it is often cause for complication, I think, you know? I know why you did that.
1:30:09
I know why you're going to do this.
1:30:11
And I know it's like then comes the eye roll and the contempt and then you're down a dangerous passage, you know?
1:30:17
If if Elza was here sitting right next to you right now, what would she tell me about you that would surprise me? Um You don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
1:30:27
You're going to have to ask her.
1:30:29
You're going to have to ask her.
1:30:30
You're going to have to ask her.
1:30:31
Yeah, I have seen her have interviews and I'm like, "Why did you tell him that?
1:30:33
That's not Is that really what you think?" That's the best.
1:30:39
Does she Does she Does she react to it? Oh, yeah. Yes, yes.
1:30:41
You know, good ways and then ways of like, "That's not true, when you do that." Um I don't know.
1:30:49
Have you had to Have you had the conversation with your kids about their granddad's Alzheimer's? Like, have you >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:30:54
Walk me through that part.
1:30:57
Um How do you explain it?
1:30:57
What How does that conversation go? Yeah.
1:30:59
It's been really interesting because I um they're the they're the biggest kind of lessons and the most sort of profound sort of shifts in our sort of our growth, I think, as individuals is is is around confronting moments.
1:31:14
And I was It was very important for me to have them understand what was happening and articulate what this meant and also what it meant for me, you know, rather than, I guess, protect or, you know, um avoid that situation for them or that discomfort.
1:31:34
I I I was kind of It was very important.
1:31:36
And and so, when I would talk to them about it, initially they were like, "Oh, okay, what does that mean?
1:31:40
Yeah, he's going to forget his memories. Okay."
1:31:42
And then they'd go and see him and they'd go, "Oh, Dad, he's fine."
1:31:44
Yes, and and then they would come to me and go, "Oh, he he he asked me this three times."
1:31:48
And I said, "Well, this is what it is."
1:31:49
And now you might have to look after me one day. And this is what we do. That this is family.
1:31:53
This is the importance of, you know, this connection and the support we have for one another and having compassion for um a vulnerable, challenging times.
1:32:00
And um and they've been great with it, you know?
1:32:04
They have they have big hearts, my my my kids.
1:32:06
I'm so thankful for that, you know?
1:32:09
And there is an um an abundance of sort of compassion there.
1:32:13
And they're like, "Okay, cool.
1:32:14
What do you need from us, you know? Yeah, I can cool."
1:32:16
And they'll rally and go around and I'll, you know, they'll ask dad questions and things and talk about old memories and things I've talked about with them. And um Yeah.
1:32:26
And then they'll also be little maniacs and not care about any of it on the other occasions, but for the most part, they've they've been really good.
1:32:34
And in my son at one of my boys, actually, at the screening was got really emotional.
1:32:40
And it really kind of I was really surprised.
1:32:44
And then he was like in the car on the way home, like got really upset.
1:32:47
And he said, "I just I just love Craigie so much."
1:32:49
And I said, "Well, he's still here, you know?
1:32:51
Go and make sure you tell him." And and he said, "I am.
1:32:54
I I want to go around there more and I want to you know, have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him."
1:33:00
And and it was just great kind of I think sort of awakening for him, you know?
1:33:04
It was real, but until he saw that the documentary, it wasn't as real.
1:33:06
And um and his brother, who isn't probably as articulate with his sort of emotions, was it was still affecting him, you know?
1:33:18
And both were like and he was sort of agreeing, "Yeah, yep, let's let's let's go and be with him more and let's you know, let's make the most of this opportunity." So.
1:33:24
Yeah, that must have been amazing seeing their their reaction to it as well. It was. It was.
1:33:27
And it was I wasn't even focusing on it, you know?
1:33:31
They It was I was sort of right there with my dad.
1:33:34
And at the end of it, they were there and then in the car on the way home talking and I thought, "Oh, wow.
1:33:38
I was sort of just focused on this moment, but now this is the next generation yeah, coming and that's sort of the the transference from one to the other and the experience my dad's had and passed to me and now I pass to my kids.
1:33:53
And Yeah, it's it's also the power of just media and storytelling in a way that if we could all personalize in a world where you're not a movie star Mhm.
1:34:05
and you're not making a documentary and it's almost like I went to two friends' 70th birthday parties this year. Mhm.
1:34:15
And I've not known them I've known them both separately two two different people.
1:34:19
And I've probably known them both for maybe the last 10 years, if that.
1:34:23
So, I've not known them for like 60 years of their life.
1:34:27
I've got to know them in the last 10.
1:34:29
And these birthday parties were filled with people they've known for, you know, nearly 70 years. And it was old friends.
1:34:36
And of course, their kids and grandkids and families.
1:34:40
And you know, they they weren't huge parties, but they were they were big in that there were lots of very close people there.
1:34:45
Teachers and, you know, um business partners and just just everyone.
1:34:50
And and it was so beautiful.
1:34:52
Like, it was it was such a special thing to attend as someone who's not Yeah. Yeah.
1:34:57
and go, "Wow, like, what an incredible life these two people have lived.
1:35:02
How amazing it is to see them celebrate it.
1:35:04
And how and they're not movie stars.
1:35:06
And and how amazing it is for their families to have made media about them." Yeah.
1:35:11
So, whether it's like a little homemade video of their highlight reel for 70 years or whether it's messages from over the years.
1:35:17
And I was just like the power And And it's like, I've only known them for the last 10 years, but I'm like weeping at these videos.
1:35:21
Not And I haven't even been there for that long, like, compared to everyone else in the room.
1:35:26
But there's a power to that and how connected we feel when you see someone's story being told. >> Yeah.
1:35:31
And it And it makes you wonder how much more we can all do that for our families and the people we love. Yeah.
1:35:37
Even if it's not on a big, you know, you're not going to a premiere or anything like that.
1:35:40
But how much of a need there is for celebrating people at milestones. >> Yeah, for sure.
1:35:46
>> And and kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them so other people can appreciate them better, too. >> Yeah. It is.
1:35:52
It's It's I think the most important thing to to see one another and and to be seen and to recognize another others the the the beauty and and what they have represented, what they have given you.
1:36:09
We We don't often, you know, I mean, at the milestones, the parties and the birthdays and so on, we might you know, offer that up, but I don't think we do it enough, you know?
1:36:17
And and the it it's it's incredibly important because you you know, without that recognition from someone else, we don't really know kind of our effect on the world.
1:36:29
We don't really, you know, we we can assume and and think this or that, but for the most part, it's a sort of imagined experience, you know?
1:36:36
And the actual reality of it, the reality of it when someone else taps you on the shoulder and says, "Hey, this is incredibly important what you've done.
1:36:42
And this is incredibly memorable and it had this amazing, profound effect on me, what you said this one time."
1:36:50
We um we don't we Yeah, we I don't think we're as comfortable saying it or we don't sort of do it as often as we should. Yeah. Yeah.
1:36:56
And it Yeah, it's a good It's This This is definitely a good reminder of that. >> Yeah. For sure, to see it.
1:37:00
And And for everyone to recognize that you can do your own version of it. Yeah.
1:37:03
Like, that's kind of what I was The whole time I was watching it, I was just like, "Yeah, I wish I did that with my mentor.
1:37:08
And I wish we got the opportunity."
1:37:08
And in a good way, not in a not in a painful way, in a in a excitement for everyone else to And you know, doing it with my mom.
1:37:16
I remember a few years ago I interviewed my mom not on the podcast, but just over dinner.
1:37:22
And it was my sister's 30th birthday. We'd gone away together.
1:37:24
It was me and my mom and my younger sister.
1:37:25
And we just I just interviewed my mom over dinner.
1:37:28
It was my one of my favorite things I've ever done. >> Oh, wow.
1:37:31
Because I learned so much about her Yeah.
1:37:34
>> that she'd never told me.
1:37:34
She's 70 now or she was at that point.
1:37:35
And it just it was so special just to ask her some questions that she would never tell me the story about or she wouldn't she never makes her life sound exciting or different or special.
1:37:45
And then you get into it and you go, "Oh my god, your life is all of those things." >> Mhm.
1:37:49
Uh and and yeah, just yeah, what what a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary.
1:37:54
I I wonder with with everything you've been saying, what what's something that you want to get better at as a man?
1:38:03
I want to slow down a bit, you know?
1:38:03
I I I feel like that I have been sort of chasing something for so long and um achieving something and arriving at a point and then quickly replacing it with something else.
1:38:20
And it's afforded me an incredible life and and I've achieved some wonderful things.
1:38:26
And but it's I would love to take pause and take stock in kind of this moment more, you know?
1:38:36
And and it's not to say I don't want to keep working and do do achieving things, but I want to be less kind of um focused on the the outcome of it, you know?
1:38:48
And just be there for the experience and be there for the the joy and the thrill and the adventure and and and have a greater curiosity around it without being consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things, you know?
1:39:05
But it's a strange thing because as we've discussed a few times, you know, well, can you You one without the other.
1:39:13
Um But I uh you know, I in I have This has made me slow down a lot you know, with my dad recently and I'm looking at next year and I have films to do, but I've turned down a lot of things just so I can be here with him more and cuz I know I'm not going to get 10 years down the track and go I'm glad I did those extra three or four films.
1:39:30
I'm going to say I wish I spent more time with him and with my mom, you know.
1:39:35
Um and with my brothers and my wife and my kids and family and friends and because it's it's uh you know, you wake up and all 10 years has gone by and it's like it's been fun, but a lot of it has feels like a sort of a blurred Polaroid photograph, you know, I'm like I just can't even remember that, you
1:39:54
know, and but it was sort of all consuming and so busy and such intensity and such high emotions and and and such kind of big risk, big reward, big payoff, big big loss, you know, and and that's fun and there's a sort of excitement to that, but I feel I find sometimes I there's just pure exhaustion as well. Mhm. And I just Mhm.
1:40:17
And I just would like to kind of reset a bit and recharge and have a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want so much from a situation just kind of just be here. Yeah. You know?
1:40:32
Is that why coming back here was so important instead of being in LA as well? Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
1:40:35
And it was right when I had kids.
1:40:37
it was right when I had kids. Um we were in LA and we had a big beautiful house there and but it just didn't feel like home and it was chaotic and every time I'd leave the house I was reminded of work and reminded of what I was doing or what I
1:40:50
wasn't doing and and um and that was you know, documented by paparazzi and then plastered across sort of various news outlets and so on and and it didn't it wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level, you know, it didn't feel nourishing at all. And we came back here just for just for
1:41:07
And we came back here just for just for a holiday, but you know, sort of a subtle attempt you know, convince my wife to move here and it was it wasn't it wasn't a hard Hard sell. moment.
1:41:20
No, it wasn't a hard sell at all.
1:41:21
She was instantly like, "Oh, this will do. This is pretty special."
1:41:24
Yeah, is your is your dad's transition most hardest on your mom? Do you do you see that? For sure.
1:41:30
Yeah, that's the one that I [Music] has become really complicated.
1:41:35
Um because it's sort of What what's scary is she has the same two copies of the APOE4.
1:41:48
Um I think there's a higher probability of probability of women getting it as opposed to men.
1:41:52
So, she's in a even higher risk category.
1:41:57
And the stress and the the concern that she carries it it is is is incredibly dangerous, you know, and detrimental to her health and so my brothers and I have you know, a big attempt to sort of offload that as much as we can.
1:42:14
Um Yeah, and also watching you know, you don't want to be in a sort of romantic, loving relationship and then one have to be a carer and one have to be a patient, you know, it's such a tragedy.
1:42:29
And I think at times um that's where that's where the roles have been assigned and there's good days and bad days, but I think not being able to do the things that they used to do and not having the same connection and the same conversations that they used to have and and that um there's a beautiful connection and love there, but there isn't the same depth to some of the conversations and interactions they have now.
1:42:56
There isn't the same um support and and you know, obviously no one's fault.
1:43:03
It just there's sort of an inability or an incapacity to to be there and provide that now because the the memory isn't as you know, strong as it was and it's and it's the short-term things are rapidly sort of declining.
1:43:18
So, um Yeah, we're sort of trying to implement a lot of things currently for her health and for his, but also trying to allow there to be some more autonomy in my mom's life as well and and a bit of agency in her space so she doesn't have to feel like she is you know, the carer.
1:43:37
Yeah, it's such a strange one, isn't it?
1:43:39
It's like you're caring for the person who's actually unwell. Yeah.
1:43:42
And caring for the person who's caring for the person who's unwell, who is often gets forgotten sometimes, isn't Peter Attia said it to me um when my dad was first diagnosed, he said, "How's your mom?"
1:43:51
I said, "Oh, yeah, she's good. She's fine."
1:43:52
Yeah, he goes, "She's the one I'd be concerned about." Yeah.
1:43:56
You know, because your dad you know, you can we can slow the regression of Alzheimer's sometimes.
1:44:02
Um we're yet to sort of reverse it, you know, but once it starts, that's the path you're on.
1:44:08
He said, "Your mom isn't there yet.
1:44:10
Isn't isn't you know, it doesn't have sort of cognitive decline, but he goes, "But this is the environment where it will it will promote that is is is the stress and the sleepless nights, the increasing cortisol um and that anxiety and concern."
1:44:25
He said, "All of those are like that's the environment for her to now sort of be forced on that path."
1:44:31
So, he said, "We got to pay attention there."
1:44:33
And that that was a a beautiful reminder from him.
1:44:36
And he said it a number of times.
1:44:37
I came in contact with him a lot and and says, "How's your mom doing? How's your mom doing?"
1:44:41
Um Yeah, she's definitely a a big focus. Yeah, love that.
1:44:45
Uh Chris, it's been such a joy talking to you. Thank you, you too.
1:44:49
Uh truly just just it's it's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in this way because it it just, you know, puts so much into perspective for all of us to hear you kind of be so vulnerable and so open.
1:45:03
That can't be easy and of course seeing the documentary, you just see how much you're letting everyone in and we end every episode with a final five.
1:45:08
These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.
1:45:11
Often we go off piece cuz I get enthusiastic and excited.
1:45:16
Uh but Chris Hemsworth, these are your final five.
1:45:19
Uh we ask these to everyone on the show or at least a few of these.
1:45:21
Uh so, question number one, Chris, what's the best advice you've ever received?
1:45:29
Best advice I've received, um I remember being asked this when I was doing Home and Away, this soap opera many years ago.
1:45:39
And my answer was, "Be kind."
1:45:39
And I remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, "Oh, it's like something you'd read on a teddy bear or whatever."
1:45:48
But that advice that was given to me by my mom is just be kind to people, be compassionate has stayed true and been my North Star through everything I've ever done and and in its simplicity is some there's some profound wisdom to it, you know.
1:46:03
Be kind to yourself, be kind to others.
1:46:06
That's about as you know, if we embody just that one thing, I think we'll we'll do okay. Yeah, I love that.
1:46:12
Uh second question, what is the worst advice you ever heard or received? I don't know.
1:46:20
Just be what I was afraid of and what I makes me nervous. This. [Laughter] I love that.
1:46:26
Of all the Of all those tricks I was trying to Yeah.
1:46:30
It's a good anxiety, Chris. Yeah, exactly.
1:46:32
The worst advice I've had on many occasion, it's just one more drink. One more beer. It doesn't work out. Doesn't work out.
1:46:39
It's always the worst idea.
1:46:41
The one more was always the problem, you know.
1:46:43
It leads to overweight Thor.
1:46:45
Yeah, it leads to overweight Thor.
1:46:47
It leads to confused Thor. Yeah. Regretful Thor. Yeah. Catastrophic Thor. I love it.
1:46:52
Question number three, what do you believe makes a good dad?
1:47:01
Um someone who truly embodies the things they're trying to to to bestow upon you, you know, so someone who um represents those virtues that they're trying to teach you rather than you're talking about it, their their behavior represents that.
1:47:21
And and that's been has been my dad, you know, his his actions spoke a lot louder than his words and he didn't necessarily speak in sort of poetic one-liners that were, you know, memorable.
1:47:33
It was his the way he walked into a room and the way he treated people, the way he behaved and held himself and took care of people, was compassionate.
1:47:43
That um and he was true to his word and honest and still is and and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love and um Yeah.
1:47:55
Someone who who who models their behavior honestly. Mhm.
1:47:58
Question number four, what do you believe makes a good son?
1:48:02
Being in not just a state of receivership, but also giving back, you know, and and I remember when my dad's father passed away, I was in LA and he called me and and I said, "Oh, sorry about your dad."
1:48:18
And I remember him getting choked up and on the other end of the call kind of thinking, "Oh, wow, he's crying."
1:48:24
I hadn't really seen him cry, I don't think, ever.
1:48:29
And very I was sort of listening and okay, how are you all right?
1:48:33
And then he started talking again and we changed the subject and we went.
1:48:36
And it was and then afterwards, maybe a year later, I thought, "God, I wasn't there for him."
1:48:42
And then as time went on, realizing how important it was for me also to show give recognition and how important it was rather than just him taking care of me, realizing I had a part to play.
1:48:55
And so, what makes it a good son is also the recognition that you have a position and a place to hold in this relationship and it isn't just to be taken care of, it's also to to share that responsibility and take care of one another. Mhm.
1:49:10
It's a convoluted answer on that. >> No, that's good. No, that's beautiful. Beautiful.
1:49:14
I feel like we're living at a time where roles are so hard to understand and undefined and it's so beautiful to just have like a north star.
1:49:21
Like how simple it is to have like yeah, your dad's a good dad, someone who's true to his words and lives by example. That's a Yeah.
1:49:28
>> beautiful simple thing that we can all try to aspire to live towards as opposed to you know, complex ideas.
1:49:36
>> having a friend of mine's dad who um who was very well read and you know, would quote various the philosophy and and and and and psychologists and things.
1:49:52
And it was like oh wow, that's a really interesting that's a great thing and and I would take it and I would but he didn't embody any of it.
1:49:56
You know, as the years went on, I was like oh, that's it's all talk, you know, it's not it's not action.
1:50:02
And um just a sort of reiterate to what I was saying before, it it it's it it you know, it's one thing to sort of be able to spout off wisdom and and quotes and so on but it's like do you truly when push comes to shove, is that who what you're representing or not? >> Yeah.
1:50:19
I'm I'm trying to avoid the next question.
1:50:22
Uh we're on question Oh, we did question four. We're on question five. This is it.
1:50:25
This is the one that I told you about right at the top of the show that you've been thinking about the whole time. >> yeah.
1:50:29
Uh so, uh Chris, the fifth question that we ask every guest who's ever been on the show.
1:50:33
And by the way, everyone knows this question and no one ever prepares for it, so don't worry.
1:50:38
Uh fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
1:50:43
To have a uh a three-day work week. Or four days, maybe. To work less. You know?
1:50:51
And um I think we would have I would think we would work harder and more efficiently when we do.
1:50:58
And their entire life wouldn't be around productivity and work work work work work and it would be about hopefully more enjoyable experiences, you know? Yeah.
1:51:07
I mean, and the weekends are the weekends are beautiful and and and and needed and wanted and and waited for with such anticipation because we've worked, yes, but I think a day or two less would be universally beneficial.
1:51:22
I have no idea how humans signed up to a five-day work week.
1:51:26
Like can you imagine when that got instated how everyone just goes, "Yeah, we're going to I I don't know how we did it."
1:51:31
Like I I don't know how we ever agreed going, "Yeah, we're all going to work five days a week." >> No.
1:51:36
And in some cases six and some places across the world like six, seven days people are working and maybe there's church on Sunday.
1:51:40
mental fatigue and the physical fatigue and and now with phones and all the other ways we're sort of you know, connected.
1:51:46
But now it's 24 hours, right?
1:51:47
There is no >> There is no switching off down here. >> Yeah. Brutal. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good law.
1:51:53
I I hope >> rid of phones.
1:51:54
Maybe one day when you're when you're prime minister or you know, some sort of yeah, you can instate four-day work week with three-day start with Australia and then you can figure out I don't know how it goes. Yeah, let's test it. Yeah.
1:52:07
Chris, it's been such a joy and an honor to talk to you.
1:52:11
Really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level.
1:52:13
Thank you for being so open, vulnerable and so grateful that you're sharing your and your dad's journey and your family's journey with us.
1:52:19
I appreciate your time, mate. Thank you very much.
1:52:22
>> everyone to watch it, yeah.
1:52:22
It was definitely worth coming 24 hours. Like this is amazing. Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Awesome, man. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure. Thank you.
1:52:30
If you loved this episode, I need you to listen to one of my favorite conversations ever.
1:52:35
It's with the one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and everyone else is.
1:52:45
We talk about his sobriety journey and so much more. He gets really personal.
1:52:50
I can't wait for you to hear it.
1:52:52
It's going to blow your mind.
1:52:54
The quote is, "If you have a problem with me, text me and if you don't have my number, you don't know me well enough to have a problem with me."