0:00
Hi. Hi. Hey, Charlie. Let me get a picture.
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0:05
This has been the total opposite of like an overnight success story.
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[Applause] [Music] dichotomy of am I a left field underground artist or am I supposed to be a pop star?
0:27
People are obsessed over the way that you presented this music.
0:29
They say you claim to color. It's great.
0:31
They say this fan base, they're hungry for us to succeed.
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We just have to do it for them.
0:41
That's all we need to like light a fire.
0:44
Best show I've ever been to. It was every day.
0:53
I suppose it's been very rewarding that I've really truly just been myself.
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Niche is rewarded so much more than it ever has been.
1:00
And I think the labels Yeah. They got it.
1:02
They got on board and they left me alone.
1:04
And that's really all I've ever wanted to be left alone.
1:10
If you think about one word that sums up Charlie XX this year, we all know what it is.
1:13
But there are so many more words that can apply.
1:15
If you've been on this ride with Charlie forever, then yeah, it's hard working, visionary, creative, ambitious, adventurous.
1:22
If it's your first impression, iconic seems pretty good. And yeah, brat. But it's more than that.
1:29
In fact, yeah, let's sum them all up with one word, Charlie.
1:37
[Music] [Applause] Are we going? Oh, sorry. We found you. We've been chasing you.
1:59
We've been chasing you, trying to catch up to you.
2:03
I don't know how we caught up to you.
2:03
I don't know how you're feeling right now, but I'm really glad to see you. Yeah, me too. I'm glad to see you.
2:09
I'm I'm um sort of hanging on by a thread in ways, but I also think, you know, this has been the total opposite of like an overnight success story.
2:22
So I think I am prepared in ways um for what's happening right now in terms of like the pace of things and also in terms of you know my kind of level of engagement with reality versus fantasy and yeah I just it's I think easier for me to take a lot of things with a pinch of salt because of you know how long I've been doing this for.
2:49
It's funny cuz you talk to people who have been introduced to you this summer and they're like, "Who is she?"
2:55
And then there's a whole bunch of us who are like, "At last and it's it's sort of one or two."
2:59
You know, it's it's it's either or.
3:02
Um, and I wonder it kind of must feel a little bit like both for you in a way because we've known each other a long time.
3:09
And I've always joked with people about, you know, the world's got to catch up to you.
3:13
You shouldn't try to catch up to the world.
3:16
And so how does that kind of validation feel now?
3:21
Obviously it feels on one side of things really amazing, you know, to have made this album uh where I really truly made like no sacrifices at all.
3:33
Like I really was preparing myself for this album to sort of be for my kind of fan base only and not really like break outside the walls of that at all.
3:43
for it to feel very similar to pop two in the kind of the scale of it, you know, and so when you know so many new people began kind of reacting to not only the music but the sort of culture around me as an artist I was like oh wow like this is so awesome because I've not really sacrificed any part of myself to appeal to more people.
4:10
uh which is something that I always kind of felt like I had to do because I never felt sort of traditionally like I don't know like pretty enough or you know that I was kind of doing or saying the right things in like the sphere of pop music to be accepted enough on like a kind of a sort of larger scale.
4:31
And so I suppose it's been very rewarding that I've really truly just been myself as cheesy as that sounds and more people are listening to my music cuz that's really the kind of ultimate goal for me to be able to make what I want to make but a kind of lots of people to hear it.
4:49
And then on the flip side, you know, it's sort of like um just quite overwhelming I guess as you say.
5:00
It's like people don't know the history and that's fine.
5:02
It's, you know, it's kind of fun for people who want to find out to find to find out, but yeah, I think there there's a lot of depth to all artistry and I think it's like at the level I was before, I would say sort of like 95% of people who were engaging with my work were so hungry to explore all of the kind of little Easter eggs and the depth behind everything that I was doing.
5:26
And now there's, you know, more people who are engaging with things on a surface level, which is totally great, but I'm also I'm the artist in me is like, "Oh, but don't you know why I wore that color?"
5:38
You know, getting like very heady about it.
5:40
I feel kind of um in a in a really sort of nice way kind of envious of the people that are discovering you now because they get to go back and experience all these different sides of of what you do and all this excitement and all this amazing art for the first time.
5:53
And I thought it was really cool how you kind of repositioned and repurposed your artwork to bring it up to date and and gave all your previous projects a through line in terms of it's fun, but it's also really smart because it says like, hey, it's not like this is completely different to anything else I've done.
6:07
It's all been a journey up to this point. Yeah.
6:08
I think, you know, in terms of like previous projects, it's like I think there are things that are, you know, inherently like uh comparative within my my work.
6:21
And I do feel like Brett and Pop Two and How I'm Feeling Now kind of do live.
6:28
They're sort of siblings in the in the catalog, I suppose.
6:30
And yeah, it's nice to sort of visually tie them all together as well.
6:34
And then there's some more kind of like anomaly work.
6:35
It's interesting for people to discover, too.
6:39
But it's nice to treat it as a whole universe.
6:42
We spoke in 22 on Crash, and that felt like the end of something.
6:45
I remember at the end of that conversation I'd said, "Yeah, I feel like that's the end of an era for her."
6:50
That's how I felt at the end of that conversation.
6:53
Like there was a release that day, but there's also a release through the music of like, "I'm sick of trying to kind of compromise here and there and and be in a label matrix and move according to how other people move before after my release and time frames and all this which works a lot of the time, but it it felt like you had had enough of that." Yes.
7:12
And I just I think it'd be cool to kind of just pick up from that point and and how you felt after releasing that album and and to get to the point of Brat and and sort of how important that that phase was of letting go.
7:24
Like I didn't even know you'd sign another label deal. Like I genuinely didn't. Yeah.
7:28
I was really keeping that under wraps.
7:29
You were you were like I'm done with labels, I think, for now.
7:31
And then I resigned and then you resigned.
7:33
But very I moved from the UK to the US, you know.
7:39
I really on that I I really did um explore other options but in the end you know having more control of my masters Mhm.
7:48
was essentially what I wanted.
7:50
I've always been caught in this dichotomy of am I a left field underground artist or am I supposed to be a pop star?
8:01
And I think Crash was me kind of like toying with the idea of like, no, I'm gonna be a pop star, but also putting this protective layer of like, but it's a concept around it just in case it failed or whatever, you know.
8:16
And I think I think artists always figure out ways to kind of protect themselves from uh, you know, public discourse in their own ways.
8:24
And I think that was mine during that time.
8:28
After that whole process, I really did just feel like, okay, you know what? This next one is for me.
8:33
Like it's that thing of like one for them, one for me.
8:38
And this next one, I was like, this is for me.
8:40
I've done the like trying to be commercial thing.
8:43
I've done the I'm playing the game.
8:45
I've done the like I'm doing radio, whatever, you know?
8:47
And I was like, I'm just like not doing that anymore.
8:53
Like I'm just not I'm not built for it in the way that other people are. It doesn't bring me joy.
8:57
See, I think when we were having that conversation, you'd already come to that conclusion.
9:01
Not too weird about it, but because you was you seemed so relieved. Yeah.
9:02
It was like you were just letting all of this pressure go. Yeah. Maybe in that moment.
9:11
And it just felt like I don't know.
9:11
I got very excited after that because I realized like whatever you do next, I knew was going to be very um just driven by you and driven by your team.
9:22
You know, with hindsight, there's been so many times in my life where I've tried to, you know, do that version of a project where you're like, "No, this one, it's about me, my team.
9:31
No outside voices, don't care about how well it performs, etc. , etc."
9:37
And I think really successfully I only managed to do that one time which was with Pop Two and and with V Room Vroom actually because that sort of came off of the back of uh this album Sucka which was sort of commercially at that point in time my most successful record and I just didn't get any enjoyment out of it at all.
9:54
It it I didn't feel that I would sit down and listen to some of the most successful songs from that record.
10:00
I I didn't particularly relate to a lot of the things that I was doing even though I was having fun doing a lot of the things.
10:08
It wasn't it didn't feel like distilled version of myself.
10:10
And so then I kind of like did this big sort of pendulum swing into Room Room and then into uh the two mixtapz that I made, Number One Angel and Pop Two, which really did feel like that thing of like, okay, well, I'm making this for myself um and for the people who really understand me the most, and if it doesn't perform, it doesn't perform.
10:32
your first kind of experience of sort of rejecting the the established why and being like, "No, no, there's another why over here and it's with Sophie and it's with AG and it's like there's a thing over here that whether it works or not, this is my why." Yeah.
10:46
And I think it was at that point in time where I was like, this is equally as important and has the potential to be equally as successful in terms of scale as like this the other thing that I was doing.
11:02
But it's just you have to kind of tell the story in a different way.
11:08
You have to learn to market yourself and actually present it differently. Yeah.
11:10
You know, that that's when I felt like I really had a hardcore fan base because it was me and them.
11:13
fan base because it was me and them. We were the people engaging in the conversations around my work and the culture around my work and kind of that conversation was you know generating the small level of hype and buzz that those
11:29
projects got you know right internet core that kind of thing and I and I think now it's it's sort of the same pattern in that you know crash happened and I was beyond proud of that record and you know the things that that record did that was my biggest four at the time. It was statistically my one of my
11:46
It was statistically my one of my biggest records.
11:48
Like I'm not super focused on that even in that record when I kind of was supposed to be.
11:53
But it was it was like a you know great album campaign.
11:59
Um, and I, by the way, I find I like I mean, you know this about me, but I guess for people watching who maybe don't, like I talk about music in terms of like marketing and campaigns more than I do music, I think sometimes, but it's the part I've always been really interested in even more than the music.
12:19
I've told you the story about how when someone said, "Who are the young people that can run the industry in the future?"
12:23
And I said, "Well, Charlie's definitely on this."
12:24
I've told you this before because of that because of that fact. Totally.
12:28
And yeah, so you know, now with going into BRAT, like I I was very much focusing on, you know, uh in that same way as with Vroom Vroom and Pop Two, like this is for me, for my fan base, etc.
12:40
But I kind of wrote this sort of like manifesto. It was really clear.
12:46
It was just like essentially saying all the things that um you know I I should have said when I was doing Vroom Vroom but probably didn't have the confidence to say but essentially that like this record it's not going to there's going to be like no like traditional radio songs like whatever.
13:03
There's there's not going to be that like traditional like this is the single kind of a vibe.
13:09
Um because we don't live in that world now and you the label should recognize that and you should recognize that this like fan base that I have built are so hungry for me and my peers and our kind of like slightly left world of like pop dance music to that they're hungry for us to succeed and that doesn't mean that we have to do any pandering to any other side of the industry.
13:41
We just have to do it for them and we have to make them feel so special because they are because they've championed me and us for so long and that's all we need to like light a fire and I think you know now niche is rewarded so much more than it ever has been and I think the labels recognize that and I think I spoke with such confidence and aggression I suppose in parts that I think uh they Yeah, they got it.
14:09
They got on board and they left me alone.
14:12
And that's really all I've ever wanted to be left alone.
14:18
And so then I could just do my thing, Zane. You know, and it works.
14:20
And I think what's really interesting is like out of this time where I and you know I feel like a little bit arrogant saying this perhaps but out of this time where like the niche is so rewarded after like serving the niche actually like kind of a monoculture moment happened which we don't see a lot of in this day and age.
14:49
People are obsessed over the way that you've presented this music.
14:56
They say you claim a color. It's great. They say, "Yeah." Yeah. No, I know. Yeah.
15:02
It's like It's like that's yours now.
15:05
And um fashion houses are now creating things out of that color and like it's kind of it's kind of mad.
15:12
I mean, where were you when the idea of like presenting it through the green with the with the lowerase font, the blur, the the very sort of early stage digital, where were you?
15:21
Where did that come from? It was just at home.
15:23
Um, and you know, actually, uh, where I'm not sure if I actually said this yet, but where the actual first idea of doing a text cover came from was to save money because I was like, this album is not going to appeal to a lot of people.
15:47
So, $300,000 photo shoots ain't on the books. Yeah.
15:50
Literally, that's where I I was like, I think like I will do like a press shoot and then maybe we just like save on the album cover and maybe it's like cool.
16:02
Seriously though, I was like I think it's also cool cuz I've been on every cover of mine apart from Vroom Vroom.
16:05
So like actually it kind of punctuates the pattern in like quite a nice way but also like handy cuz it's going to be you know a lower spend.
16:16
And then I kind and then everyone was like, "Well, that's the stupidest idea ever."
16:21
And I was like, "No, like I was going to ask who the bid and you just said everyone." Everyone. Everyone. Everyone.
16:28
Like Brandon, my manager, my creative director, IEene, like all my friends, everyone was like, "No, not the text cover."
16:37
And I was like, "No, guys. Seriously."
16:39
And then I started playing around and I was just making mock-ups on my phone.
16:43
Um, and I was like, this actually is really good.
16:47
And it actually feels like it very much embodies the word brat to kind of not be there, you know.
16:58
Um, because that is sort of less of the norm, I suppose, for female artists, you know.
17:03
Um, so that sort of felt punchy and, you know, the the kind of pixelation.
17:08
And it sort of makes it look like it's kind of been done in this sort of rush.
17:12
Like we didn't get the proper high-res file.
17:17
We did, but like you know we we it's like that's what people think and the shade of green like we we really honed in on the what that should be and kind of wanted to go for the one that the most people in our sort of like core group had the most adverse reaction to.
17:35
Brandon was like this is really hard to look at.
17:37
I was like, "This is the green net." Perfect.
17:39
Because I think it's like I knew that it would generate this conversation.
17:43
I knew that a lot of people would be sort of frustrated or disappointed by it.
17:48
And I think for me it's like I would rather have those conversations which actually in some case became quite like explosive um than you know a picture where people are like she looks good you know it's like I I'm I enjoy the conversation because that's what I enjoy about um music myself.
18:08
I enjoy the conversations that I have with AG about, you know, whatever it may be, uh, the artwork of or the font of, you know, some release that we're into.
18:19
It's like, it's really fun to like dissect that.
18:21
And it was so cool that like I saw so many think pieces written by fans, you know, like essays about um the the cover and then later about the marketing and well because people are really really um blown away by by the impact that that the marketing has had here and and what you've done is is reinstilled this confidence that marketing is creative.
18:40
I think I think marketing has had its wings clipped in a lot of ways lately because the way social media works and the way people just talk and put things out, it's so fast.
18:48
I I have friends of mine who are really good at that job and they say it's it's been hard to get really high quality great work over the line because clients just want fast punchy that they know is going to last 5 minutes and on to the next thing and that's not rewarding for some of these people. Totally.
19:02
And I think what Brat and what you've done has has achieved in out of a lot of things is like I said put some confidence back into this idea that if it's sticky you can build around it.
19:14
I don't think the music industry is is sort of as knowledgeable on marketing as it really like should be to be honest.
19:22
It's like you know the idea of like selling a sexy product.
19:28
It's like you have to create some kind of supply and demand especially when it comes to pop.
19:34
you know, the aim is to sell, right?
19:37
And like sell as much as possible and go on tour and be everywhere.
19:38
And yes, that there is there is that, but I think in a way to like get to that in an interesting way, you kind of have to sort of like starve like the audience like drip feed the tap to get the viewer into this like feverish state where they actually want more rather than you're just sort of like super serving them, serving them this endless buffet of stuff. Yeah.
20:07
Because we want to we want to invest in it.
20:08
I think we want to invest in things rather than just be told here it is. It's as I present it. It's done. Enjoy it. It's like cool.
20:13
Like do I get a say and think of it? Yeah.
20:16
I I've I've never shopped at Supreme ever, but I kind of likened this album to like a Supreme drop kind of a thing.
20:26
Like I've actually never even been in Supreme, but I see the lines outside.
20:30
It's like that's what you want, you know?
20:32
You want there to be this kind of rubber band of desire of like, "Oh my god, I have to get I have to get it. I didn't get it.
20:38
Like is there another way for me to get it?
20:40
Like whether that be you know releasing really limited runs of things, whether it be um you know the the kind of like private Instagram, which I will say like I totally like jacked that idea from Lana Del Rey with her honeymoon account.
20:56
I was like this is amazing.
20:56
Like why aren't more people doing this?
20:57
Cuz I remember I couldn't get in for ages and I was like I want to be in there.
21:02
Like it's that thing of like creating this club that uh you know feels in some way special or exclusive but actually when you're in it it's very open and fun.
21:11
All that makes sense and what's also adds to the fun for you to be able to continue to to be creative with the project cuz I think a lot of times artists feel that they put something out and then they're expected to go make something else.
21:23
And what's clear to me is that you've continued to enjoy breathing new life into Brat.
21:29
Someone said to me what how has Charlie done it?
21:32
I said, "Well, okay, she's working really hard.
21:34
Like, she's not taking your eye off the project."
21:37
Billy's doing it as well.
21:37
I think you're sending a message to young artists that if you're really proud of what you create, you should feel like you can go out there and work like any generation or any decade.
21:45
I feel so much love for this project that I don't feel like I'm doing anything against my will.
21:53
Like everything that I'm doing relating to the music, it's because I want to do it because I love the music so much.
21:57
And I also, you know, I know that I won't have this moment again in this exact same way.
22:07
I think, you know, the success of Brat and the success of the marketing of Brat is also in ways a curse.
22:13
Like I I'm not going to be able to market my next album in the same way. But you'll pivot.
22:20
You always I will pivot, but whatever I do next will be compared.
22:23
Even if the music is completely different, the scale, the way it's rolled out, the level of conversation, I'm aware that whatever comes next, this is kind of the the albatross, so to speak.
22:35
Probably a good thing because, you know, when you're the number one news story in the world because Karma is brat, then how do you possibly re you I mean, you've got to move on from that.
22:43
I mean, yeah, you don't get that again.
22:46
Was that was that just was that just off the cuff?
22:47
Did you just flick that out there like whatever?
22:48
Yeah, it was it was a little it was off the cuff.
22:51
Yeah, it was me and my friend Terry who we work on a lot of kind of like my social stuff together.
22:58
We were just texting and we were like, "Should we do this?" We did it.
23:03
And you know, I I won't lie, like naively I sort of didn't actually think it would take on quite the life that it did.
23:12
Um, like did I ever expect to be kind of like dissected for things that I've said in like an interview with Nick Grimshaw on Fox News? No, I didn't.
23:20
I didn't see that like coming in my lives.
23:25
Was Nick was Nick on Fox News? Uh yeah. Yeah, both of us were.
23:28
It was He was asking me kind of like, "So, you know, what are like the Brat essentials?"
23:32
And I was like, "Oh, pack of six and a strappy top or whatever."
23:36
And then it's like, you know, the political correspondents on Fox News are kind of being like, "Do we really need this kind of woman setting an example for the American youth?"
23:45
And I was just like, "Oh god."
23:46
Like obviously like I've never cared to set an example, but I'm on the news.
23:52
The John Oliver montage was something to behold, you know, where all the different news cycles were trying to like lean into the brat.
23:56
It's fun watching them figure it out. Yeah. Bless him. Yeah.
24:02
Well, you have you do have a footnote in this campaign for somebody who I think if you ever got to meet her would probably say thank you.
24:11
Yeah, I mean that I Yeah, that would be cool.
24:14
And you know, I'm obviously she's obviously got a young team around her.
24:17
I mean, the moves they're making are they picked up and ran with it and that was cool.
24:21
There was a young gay man on that campaign, I think, who said, "Let's go. You're Brett." Yes. Um, and that's cool.
24:29
And, you know, obviously like happy to be on the right side of history.
24:37
[Music] This remix project, I don't even know if I should call it that.
24:47
Completely different, but still brat. Yes.
24:49
It's one of the most beautiful, honest, flawless dance records I've ever heard. Thank you. Thank you.
24:57
It is so, first of all, it is a club record.
25:01
I don't want anyone get this twisted.
25:03
I mean it is a modern brilliant club record and I know that you are genre agnostic but do you agree that you're making that you've made a club record? Yes. Yeah.
25:12
I mean I agree that the original album and the remix album again I don't really know if it's called that new album.
25:21
Yeah it's kind of a new album isn't it? Yeah. Yes.
25:25
I I agree that they they are they're dance records.
25:27
They're both very much rooted within club culture.
25:31
Hence, you know, the boiler room and Yeah.
25:33
I mean, that's where I came from.
25:35
So, yeah, you came from the warehouse scene in the beginning, the rave. Yes. Yes.
25:38
It's kind of paying homage to that and the the different sort of textures of those spaces and, you know, working with Gafflestein or AG or George or whoever it may be.
25:56
Like, it really does to me feel like a dance record.
25:58
And it was fun on the remix album to bring all of these people in, some of whom aren't particularly uh connected to the club world when you would think about it on the surface, but actually Julian Casablancas for example, Bonnie Ver. Yeah.
26:21
Who who I mean, if you go through Bonnie Ver's deep cuts or you really go through his collection as Justin Vernon, not just as Bonnie Ver, he's you know, he's constantly moving in electronic spaces. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
26:29
And you know, when I think about Julian, it's like, okay, like has this sort of like history with Darth Punk and also The strokes are D. The strokes. Yeah. I mean, exactly.
26:40
It's like you talk about like New York downtown.
26:43
It's like people were like partying then, you know, and really in like a hardcore way.
26:49
And so I think he of all people like understands like how to capture that kind of an energy in a room and on the songs.
26:56
It was definitely crazy pulling that all together.
26:59
Yeah, the collaborators are insane.
27:01
I mean, I think it might be up there with the most impressive collaboration project on paper. Thanks. ever. It's It's nuts.
27:09
I mean, you've got uncredited Dual Liper on there. I know. Yeah.
27:13
No, she I know she wanted I said I said I actually pitched it to her cuz I was like, we can do it as a feature, but like maybe it's I was like, if you were going to do it as a feature, it should be more.
27:23
But like I'm kind of into like I'm into the fact that she's just like it.
27:28
I'm like learning two languages and I'm going to be fluent in both of them within like 3 years or whatever it is.
27:35
And I'm like that's so cool.
27:35
Like come and do that on this song which is already about you know communicate talking in French and Spanish.
27:42
I was like well you this is you were born to do this. Let's go.
27:46
The beautiful contrast of what makes Brett really special.
27:50
Don't get me wrong, I I love seeing it everywhere and I love seeing the impact it's had visually and aesthetically and culturally, but it wouldn't have connected if the music didn't matter. Yeah.
27:58
And what you did was you created this world, and we all know this, so sorry if I'm stating the obvious.
28:02
You took this place of of of where parties happen and where people um let go and release and and just have a great time.
28:10
And then you also told the truth.
28:12
M you were like, "Yeah, but I'm really sad or I feel weird feelings of guilt because I miss my friend or I'm unsure about how I look today."
28:21
And you really went in and before you move on to the remix album because I want to bring it up today and a lot of people have written and talked about Brat, but what was that experience like kind of existing in these two worlds where one is party girl and the other one is Charlie for all of your fears and doubts that we all go through as humans? They both coexist.
28:38
Um, truly, you know, I think Matty was actually asking me this like when we came back from IBA.
28:46
He was like, "Are you actually partying?
28:48
Like, as much as it looks like you are, or is it all a bit of a like?"
28:52
And I was like, "No, like we are."
28:54
And I was like, "I'm really tired.
28:57
Like, I'm really really tired."
28:59
And it also fuels, you know, the other side of the kind of like, you know, now I'm sad kind of a thing.
29:03
It really is that calm down.
29:06
I'm actually happy that uh both sides of me have been so well documented because now I do really have an excuse for any kind of like bad behavior or being sad.
29:19
It's like it really is written in the history books.
29:24
Um so you just enabled yourself to either lose your mind or try to claim it back. Yeah. Yeah. I suppose so.
29:29
Um but no, I mean I don't know.
29:32
I think it's like we all have those two sides of us.
29:38
I think no one is eternally happy otherwise like happiness wouldn't exist as an emotion.
29:42
But not many artists are as honest about it as you were on this record and you have been throughout your career.
29:46
But this is really upfront and on the remix album in particular because it's like you realize that there was more that could be said.
29:52
But let's begin with So I because the first time I heard that song on Brat, I was so moved.
29:57
you so beautifully and eloquently captured what it feels like to lose somebody and wonder what I what I missed. Yeah.
30:03
And then on this new version, it's like now I want to celebrate the good times. Mhm.
30:12
And how was it getting to a point with AG Cook, who obviously the two of you work closely with and loved Sophie, like many people, to be able to come to some form of therapeutic kind of realization, you know what I mean?
30:24
Like a like like a celebration.
30:26
Well, you know, it's funny and and I hope Alex wouldn't mind me sort of like blowing up his spot like this, but we actually worked on both of those songs separately.
30:37
Um so when I was working on the original uh I actually started that with um Easy Fun um who is also like kind of PC music affiliated uh good friend of Sophie's and also this other uh producer John Shave who we had also worked with Sophie a lot together.
31:00
Um, and so Alex kind of came in a little later on that one.
31:04
And Finn, Easy Fun, and I, we were very back and forth on the lyrical content of that initial song.
31:14
And then on So I, um, the remix album version, AG had played that edit at the boiler room that we did in February, and I was like, I love that.
31:27
like I want to like do something on that.
31:32
And so that's kind of how you know like really I think I recorded it in July, August maybe.
31:37
Was that the start of the idea of actually doing a remix album?
31:41
No, I from before I made Brat, I knew I was like, we're going to do a remix album because we're going to make so many edits that it's going to just we're going to want to do it because there'll be so much music and it would be really cool to have like a kind of channel to like really like put it all out there and reflect on the original album and further reflect on some of those sentiments and feelings that you'd established. Exactly.
32:03
And also I think you know I love the endless possibilities of music and particularly dance music.
32:11
I think it's so inherent to the genre.
32:13
You know you send out your ac capellas like people DJ then people like mix them with other songs like new versions get born and you know especially now with Tik Tok like something goes viral that just was randomly played in the club and like I really wanted to capture that energy on the record because I think it the music works so well for it.
32:32
So yeah, it was always the plan, but sorry.
32:35
So with So I the remix album version.
32:37
Yeah, AG and I, it's like we don't we don't like to get super deep with lyrics, you know?
32:43
He's very much like you do you, I'll do me.
32:51
And I and that's what I love.
32:54
Obviously, that sounds like a very disconnected uh approach, but I think the only way that we are able to do that is because we trust each other so much and we know each other's strengths and weaknesses so much that it's so easy for us to just flow back and forth between each other.
33:12
And you know, it's like I won't lie, I think it's obviously to kind of like sit down and intricately talk about like each, you know, line for line uh of either of those two songs.
33:26
It's very like emotional experience listen to. Yeah.
33:31
So I think for both of us it's like we like to kind of just work on our you know in our like separate bubbles especially with with that song at least from my perspective and then we kind of can just like look at each other and know how we feel.
33:44
Um and uh yeah I'm really proud of that song and all of the memories are you know real real real memories.
33:53
Yeah, my whole driving the birthday cake and like you know it's true.
33:57
We did get a we I I just shot the video for after the after party, which was like a two-day nighttime shoot, and it was Sophie's birthday, like the the day the morning that we'd finished.
34:06
So, they'd been partying, and it was like 6:00 a. m.
34:09
or or maybe a bit later, 8:00 a. m.
34:12
And AG and I went to Gellson.
34:12
So, we got this disgusting birthday cake with the plastic cover. Horrid, awful.
34:18
It was It was actually like a shape of a burger.
34:20
And then we drove in an Uber.
34:23
But then this Uber driver was insane.
34:25
And I mean, we really thought that it was we were going to go off the edge and then yeah, it was just a very like we were so delirious from being awake for 2 days and then we kind of like get to this party where people have been partying all night and we've got this like Grace birthday cake and it's really cool.
34:38
You it's it's beautifully painted.
34:40
Um you've really captured it and it's emotional to hear you tell these stories and the fact that you do it so fast makes you really lean in and want to listen more carefully cuz you're going so quick.
34:46
I'm like I really want to hear every one of these stories.
34:49
five times, you know, and like the DJ set with Twig and how nervous she was and how sweet how sweet she was, Sophie was and just it's just I just it's rare when somebody's willing to um pull back the curtains on these experiences and feel okay to share them even in tribute.
35:05
Well, you know, I I kind of learned that actually from watching uh the 1975 on tour, like obviously being with George.
35:14
I'm like going to their shows a lot.
35:14
And I just remember this um line selling petrol or whatever.
35:22
And that moment in the crowd like goes off.
35:25
No one knows who the Danny is, but you know, it's one of their like old like childhood friends.
35:31
But I I always that moment in the show always really fascinated me because I'm like, "Oh, it's like the crowd, the audience really responds to these super specific personal references because it kind of is like a window into, you know, the artist's life."
35:49
artist's life." I I feel like uh all like you know the sad boys like young lean blade they do that a lot like these super like interpersonal references about you know their friends their to do with isolation I think as well a lot that comes from sort of being removed either internally or externally geographically removed from things that
36:11
you know you feel the need to to there's a there's a I always say this about Australian music like especially rock and roll from the 90s and 2000s it really it it it built romance around the benality of suburban life and I wanted to know about I really want to go to the corner store where you got that pine of milk in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, Yeah, totally.
36:27
You know, it welcomes you in.
36:29
Then on the flip side of that, you've got might, you know, might say something stupid, the remix, right, with Maddie, which is I don't think anyone listening to this is who knows the 1975, loves 1975, recognizes the roller coaster Matty's been on in particular on that last tour um through that cycle is is going to ignore the the um pertinance of him being on that particular song at this moment in time. Yeah.
36:50
Can you tell us a little bit about that decision, how that was to work with him because there's some really moving lines in there, some really sort of quite eye opening lines in there from him. Yeah.
36:59
And I really wanted him to do the song.
37:03
Um, he's like my brother now, you know?
37:06
It's like, and I hope he wouldn't mind me saying this, but it's like I have like endless amount of respect for him as a songwriter and him as a person, but I sometimes want to strangle him, you know, and you know, even before being with George, you know, like years and years ago, I've always been such a fan of their work.
37:28
He's thinking like of the way everything is digested in terms of, you know, their work, their artwork, their font, their videos, their everything.
37:38
It's it's very very holistic.
37:40
Do you think it it it was hard to say on his behalf, but did he recognize the opportunity to go on there and just be honest from his perspective?
37:47
We haven't heard from him for a while.
37:47
I mean, I I can't speak on his behalf at all, but I mean, all I'll say from my perspective in terms of that show is like I just really enjoy uh people who, you know, take a risk in terms of what they're like putting out there artistically.
38:08
And I think, you know, that show is a little divisive, but I think great art is divisive.
38:16
[Applause] [Music] [Applause] Let's talk a little bit about Sympathy as a Knife.
38:35
That was a standout on the first on first version of Brat.
38:37
Got a lot of people talking for lots of different reasons.
38:40
Everyone's got this that and whatever.
38:41
But what's cool about sympathy as a knife is that putting Ari on it, somebody who even with the best of intentions as an artist still finds herself in a thrash over her personal life, over how she looks, over her behavior. Yeah.
38:56
I mean, she's been on a roller coaster as well.
38:58
So again, it's like it's like these remixes, these these these new versions give people a chance to actually acknowledge these things with the honesty that you found the courage to present on the first album.
39:07
It's like, I want a piece of that.
39:09
I want to say my truth, too.
39:09
And I think what's interesting about the remix album, you kind of mentioned this, is, you know, I was writing the original record um when I was in like a very different position than I am, you know, post the release of Brat working on the remix album.
39:30
So, my perspective has changed a lot.
39:31
Are you referring to like now you're in the glare?
39:37
You're in the Yeah, more so.
39:37
And definitely, you know, comparative to other some other artists, like not at all, you know, but like for me personally, from where I was to now, I'm definitely finding more than ever that my words are being picked apart, taken out of context, like I offend a lot more people by doing exactly the same things.
39:57
sort of nothing like groundbreaking here, but I I suppose because, you know, no one really cared too much before what I was doing on like a personal like day-to-day level, um there was like I was a bit shocked, you know, and it kind of uh yeah, it gave me so much empathy for um you know, bigger artists who go through that on a daily basis and have been for years. You know, it's hard.
40:24
It's hard to be constantly scrutinized for things that you have said.
40:30
It's hard for your words to be taken out of context and then really kind of feel that you just can't defend yourself because that would open a whole other can of worms, you know.
40:41
Um, and so Sympathy as a Knife, the remix version, it was kind of about me um recognizing that and me understanding that uh, you know, you're only really knowledgeable about your own position.
40:56
And once mine had changed and I had felt that I'd gone through, you know, a few interviews uh throughout this campaign where I'd felt perhaps that I was being a little bit manipulated or there were kind of other agendas at play and I'd never felt that before.
41:13
I had heard that Ari wanted to do something and I was like this is somebody who definitely knows this feeling, you know, more so than me, you know.
41:24
And so when she wanted to kind of take this phrase like it's a knife like obviously we're we're so you know lucky and um you know blessed to be in the situation that we're in all artists who are able to make music at the level that they're making it you know uh financially support themselves from creating art.
41:46
It's like it we are we're lucky because like not all artists get that.
41:51
You could be an amazing amazing musician.
41:53
No one's ever heard of you. Fair.
41:55
But I just want to say humility is an important part of everyday life.
42:02
But I've always struggled with the with the idea that artists should wield it just because you worked really hard and you get to do what you what you dreamed of doing. For sure. For sure.
42:10
I'm just saying like there is that I mean listen to this.
42:14
I'm complaining like on about six songs on the remix album.
42:17
I'm like, "Oh, this is annoying. This is annoying." But they're really good.
42:21
They're really genuine, honest. They're good. They're good. It's good winge. It's a good win.
42:26
No, I mean it's like, hey, should I start a family or should I keep going cuz things are working?
42:29
Hey, it's like you're telling me that, you know, I'm better off being the old me or the new me.
42:35
Like, which one is like who's me? 100% 100%.
42:37
I'm I'm not saying like sit down and shut up and get on with it.
42:42
Like, obviously that's never really been my like mo.
42:43
I just wanted to say like we we I think we all recognize and that's part of the guilt.
42:49
That's part of the guilt complex, you know?
42:51
We all recognize that it's great that we're in this position getting to do the things that we're doing like getting to like sit in this room like at this hotel la.
43:03
We get it like we're and we're all very like aware that that is, you know, not the norm, you know.
43:08
But on the flip side, uh I think this life comes with things that are sort of unimaginable um until you're in it, you know, and hard to deal with. Yeah.
43:21
The most sensitive souls often are the ones who who choose to create art and express themselves through that medium, create the magic, share it, make our lives better that ultimately leads to some success.
43:30
Success leads to a lot of attention.
43:31
Attention is not great for sensitive people. There we go. So it's like it's Yeah.
43:34
And we and you know again I can only speak for myself but like I'm volatile.
43:39
I'm volatile and that's you know you can see it in my work like I'm not always going to say the right thing.
43:47
Um but you know I doubt every single person watching this has not ever up once in their life. Like everyone up.
43:57
Everyone says dumb Everyone does dumb Everybody hurts people.
43:58
Even maybe you don't realize it but that's life. That's human.
44:03
And even the people that I'm sort of talking about on the remix version of Sympathy as a knife, whether it be, you know, the friends who sort of make me feel like I'm being, I don't know, pressed down because of their opinions or the uh, you know, journalists who I feel have, you know, duped me or whatever.
44:25
Everyone that they probably feel that way about somebody else.
44:28
Like it's all this vicious cycle.
44:29
But if you can be honest about that then then but you're being equally if not more honest about yourself. You don't stop.
44:35
And you got Madison Square Garden tonight and I know you got to get ready for that.
44:39
And I know you got Is Lord coming tonight I think as well.
44:42
Holy By the way, the two of you dealing with the awkwardness. Yeah. No.
44:45
On record is pretty amazing. Pretty crazy. It's pretty amazing.
44:49
And I love the whole album.
44:50
But I think that's really cool.
44:52
And it must have been really nice for for her to react the way she did to that. Yeah.
44:54
I cuz you know I was ready for her to like never speak to me again.
45:00
Yeah, cuz that could have been an outcome.
45:01
Yeah, cuz you caught it the day before the river came out, so too late. Yes.
45:04
Well, New Zealand gets it first and and I guess she her she's still on like Did you realize that? Oh my god.
45:10
So you were like, "Oh my god, I've got to make this call now." Yes.
45:12
But I was like, "I've got to tell you about this song."
45:17
And she was like, "Yeah, I've heard it."
45:18
I was like, "How have you heard it? It's already out."
45:20
But because she's got like the news, she knows about her. Did she pick up on it?
45:23
She was like, "I can guess which one it is."
45:25
And so I was like, "Fuck," you know, but she was so cool.
45:31
And I was like, you know, we sent these voice notes back and forth and it's just so rare to acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah.
45:37
Well, so I sort of had always wondered whether she would possibly want to kind of do a response on right the remix cuz this was like, as I said, I'd always wanted to do this remix album, but she actually suggested it first.
45:52
She was like, "Wouldn't it be cool if I did this response?"
45:54
And I was like, "Oh my god, I can't believe this is happening." Yes. And it it was so quick.
46:00
I mean, she said that on like I think the the Friday and she sent me the thing by Monday cuz she felt it, right?
46:07
She related from perspective. Yeah.
46:07
I think about it all the time. Yes.
46:10
This is a really it's moving in its original form.
46:16
It's even more moving in in in in the remix form.
46:18
Um it says a lot about this kind of the weight of expectation, self perpetuating expectation of ambition and success and validation and then coming up to this point of like I'm scared I'm going to run out of time which some people might see as like life or career or whatever.
46:35
It could be about also running out of time in terms of like having another life. Yeah. Right.
46:42
And actually actually and and and building something.
46:43
And how did it feel to write that acknowledge it?
46:45
the courage to release it knowing that it really it tells a very honest true story between about those two parallel things that are constantly vying for for your attention. Absolutely.
46:56
You know, I I wasn't super worried about the response because I played it to a couple of my friends who, you know, sort of similar age, maybe a little older than me, in long-term relationships, haven't even thought about like kids or, you know, very like careerist.
47:15
And they were like, "Yeah, I like totally get this like and found it very emotional."
47:19
And I was like, "Oh, that's cool."
47:21
The thing I was actually more worried about with that song is like you and I kind of know like the musical reference of that song and I was kind of like I don't know if he's going to No, not if he's I he actually wanted Mike to do something for the remix record.
47:43
It didn't quite happen, but I was actually more just like are like people going to get this?
47:50
Like am I like fans going to like get what this what this reference is?
47:53
Like are they streets fans or either they people really get it or people were like why is she singing like this?
48:01
Why is she doing this kind of cadence like this song is crazy like you know?
48:05
So that was actually the thing I was most sort of worried about.
48:10
And then also that thing of like you know never wanting to veer into like a cosplay or like a you do you know what I mean?
48:18
going too hard in that way.
48:18
So, it was it was the balance of that. No, it's subtle.
48:25
I mean, it's it definitely you feel the same sense of feeling you get when Mike's going to present his honest thoughts over music.
48:31
It's he has an amazing ability to cut to the heart of the matter and so do you and that's very evident on Brat.
48:37
Um yeah, he was a big reference actually for this record like just in terms of his his whole tone.
48:42
I mean there's a few references like in club classics I say like tight light mic kind of flow. Yeah.
48:52
I want to be blinded by the lights.
48:54
And we kept playing this like cult classic not bestseller.
48:57
He did something so truly unique and uh you know kind of something that only he could really do.
49:09
And and that's what the essence of Brat is.
49:13
It's like tapping into that part of yourself that only you can access.
49:17
Like it's kind of ignoring all the things that sort of make you palatable or, you know, easily comparable to others that may allow you to fit into any kind of like premeditated mold and actually it's about embracing the flaws of yourself, your work, the things that you think about and kind of running with them.
49:37
And I and I feel that he's always sort of done that.
49:42
I mean, he's always sort of like talked about, to be honest, like I'm really just really realizing this now as I say it, but his like the partying versus the morning after.
49:52
Like that's been like such a huge like lyrical touch point for him.
49:56
Are are you aware of where the line is?
49:58
Like like you're having the best time of your life in terms of finally achieving the level of success and validation that everyone hoped that you would fans we all hoped you would achieve that the world would know who you are and recognize the brilliance and the genius of what it is that you do. That's happening.
50:10
M in real time and you get to share it with your friends.
50:14
You're out with Troy having the time of your life, you know. Yeah.
50:15
And um and I know you'll pivot somewhere else all together next time.
50:19
Probably be a folk record or some Yeah. Yeah.
50:24
Maybe going with John Hopkins make a red ambient record.
50:26
Think about all of those options. Yeah.
50:28
I think it's probably like no music for a while, like you know, like quite a while.
50:34
And I also just like I want to act now. So, I'm more I'm there. I'm already there.
50:40
I'm like thinking about that stuff a little bit more.
50:46
Um because I always think it's like what would be like the coolest thing, you know?
50:52
It's like when we got Chloe 7 in the 360 video, I like really like never in a million years thought that she would say yes because she's like the coolest woman in the world, you know?
51:05
And so now I'm just kind of like, okay, like if Chloe was a musician and she was making like brat, like what would she do?
51:12
Like I don't think she I mean I could be wrong, but I feel like she wouldn't be like I'm making another record Feel like she'd go and like do something different. Do something else. So I'm like that's cool. What would Chloe do?
51:26
You know, every girl asks that question. Trust me. Addison's asking it. I'm asking it.
51:31
Like she's just she's the best.
51:33
It's been really great to see you in this brief window of time in the middle of all of this thrash. This will live forever.
51:39
So, it's awesome that you gave us so much honesty and thought and and just reflected on this time. Thank you.
51:44
And thanks for wanting to do this with me.
51:46
I always watch these, you know. I know.
51:49
I always watch these and I've always wanted to do one. So, thank you. Thank you.
51:53
It's been really awesome and um whatever comes next, I can't wait to talk to you again and see you again and just watch it all unfold.
51:59
It's it's what an adventure. Thanks. Yeah. Thank you.