0:00
When Moiz was selling native deodorant, he didn't own the trademark. And it was an issue? He's got the deal done.
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0:04
And they're like, wait, you don't have the trademark?
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He's like, yeah, but there's no other native deodorant.
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He They're like, okay, junior, what are you talking about?
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That's not how this works. Um, you know.
0:24
All right, today we thought it'd be fun to do a episode all about how we actually run our companies.
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So, we've been running companies for like, I don't know, 10, 15 years now, and like many people out there, at the beginning, we did a bunch of dumb stuff.
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And so, we're going to admit and confess to some of the dumbest things that we did running our companies, and then talk about what we do now that's actually like we found that works.
0:44
So, the stuff that didn't work and the stuff that works.
0:46
And this is around, you know, everything from like, you know, mission statements, how we used to think that these were like super important and how we treated them versus what we do now, or branding and naming our companies, or goal setting, um, these are kind of like the shortcuts that we use now.
1:01
So, what what actually that we found works through the painful process of making embarrassing mistakes.
1:09
That's what I think we're going to do today.
1:10
Yeah, we got about like five or eight categories of like on hiring, on creating comp plans, on having boundaries with staff.
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These actually sound like boring when we're like just when I'm just reading that off, but I promise you it's actually we have like interesting stories behind each one, and stuff we wish we would have done earlier that I deeply regret that I didn't do now, or that I didn't do then.
1:30
But, yeah, we'll we'll go through all the stuff that we actually use on a day-to-day basis to run our companies.
1:36
The touchy-feely stuff that's actually really important.
1:38
So, I thought it'd be fun for us to share [ __ ] we do when we run our companies.
1:42
What are our almost like management hacks or shortcuts or like the methods that we use, which, as a disclaimer, probably not the best.
1:50
Probably not what they teach you in Harvard Business School or what, you know, like very polished, you know, seasoned executives would do.
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I remember when I started one of my early companies, it was my internal mission statement was to hire 10,000 people.
2:06
And I then I hired like two people and I was like [ __ ] I need a new razor. Yeah.
2:15
Yeah, like how do I make this 10? It was horrible.
2:20
And then it was like And then the mission statement for the employees is like, look, like we're going to change Whatever like right now the word is democratize.
2:27
We're democratizing the financial markets or whatever. It's like Oh my god.
2:32
Whatever that equivalent is is what I said.
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Like we're going to change the world one newsletter at a time.
2:37
And so my mission statement really say that?
2:40
No, but it was probably like as lame.
2:40
I don't That'd be the worst if I said that.
2:45
But no, they're pretty like now they're way more So here's what I tell people.
2:49
I go, here's my the mission for the business.
2:52
This first one is very selfish, which is I want to work on a cool [ __ ] with cool people and have a dope life.
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That's just what I tell people.
2:57
I go, so it's very selfish.
2:59
I just want to work with cool people on interesting things and that's more so the mission than anything.
3:03
And then it's like and if we are able to do this, this, and this, that will also be cool.
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versus far more grand thing.
3:12
My mission statements aren't nearly as grand. Are yours?
3:15
I'm in the exact same bucket.
3:15
So definitely used to be like changing the status quo, you know, on my Steve Jobs [ __ ] And you know, I was that's who you looked up to. Looked up to Steve Jobs.
3:26
Looked up to Elon Musk and he's like you know, created an interplanetary species.
3:30
It's like, oh, okay, cool.
3:33
What's my version of that?
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Like you know, I'm I'm not trying to get to Mars and like make humankind you know, interplanetary, but I was trying to do that.
3:40
Do you remember that story of Steve Jobs when he was trying to recruit the guy from Pepsi and Steve Jobs is like you're just going to sell sugar water for the rest of your life? Right. [ __ ] you, Steve. What a dick.
3:53
Now we're like, Logan Paul, genius.
3:55
Puts sugar in water, sells it to children. Dude, the audacity. So, I'm like you now.
4:03
Uh I here was Here's the notes I wrote on my answer for this.
4:07
Uh my on my little cheat sheet I wrote, "I don't kid myself anymore. I'm honest.
4:11
I'm building a lifestyle business for me and my team."
4:13
Almost exactly what you just said, which is, "I want to do dope [ __ ] with cool people." Right?
4:19
So, do cool [ __ ] with cool people and in a way that leads to an awesome lifestyle.
4:23
Meaning, I'm not trying to kill myself currently running the business and I'm trying to have a financial outcome for me and my team that lets us all elevate our lifestyles. Right?
4:33
Like, that's That is the This business is a vehicle to have an enjoyable lifestyle, which is really funny cuz in Silicon Valley, lifestyle business is the It's the equivalent of saying, "No offense." Uh to start a sentence.
4:47
It's like, "Lifestyle business is how VCs pat you on the head and say, 'That's cute.' Uh oh.
4:54
Oh, 1 million of revenue? That's cute, you know.
4:59
You know, we we we don't invest in lifestyle businesses, right?
5:02
If this is just a lifestyle business for you, we're not interested, right?
5:03
You're You're low ambition, which in Silicon Valley, is where I live, is low status.
5:08
However, for me, I feel like I broke out of the Matrix and I was like, 'Wait, what the [ __ ] are all these people talking about?
5:12
The point of life is to have a great lifestyle.'
5:14
What I don't want another I don't want to do something else with my life.
5:17
I'm not trying to have a bad life.
5:18
I'm trying to have a good life.
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For me, for my family, for my team, we all want the good life.
5:23
Okay, let's do a project that's fun and interesting with fun and interesting people in a way that we all get rich. Is that so much to ask?
5:30
It's all like, that is now the blanket mission statement on all of my projects.
5:33
And um I don't know if that's inspiring to the troops, but it's inspiring to me and I hope that it just attracts people who are down with that and are not looking for the uh the rah-rah, you know, save the world type think I think that is a bit inspiring, to be honest, to to like the right type of person.
5:51
Um and uh I I I at least when I talk to people, it seems like, yeah, that sounds wonderful.
5:57
Another thing that changed with me is when I start new companies, I pick business models where I can afford to pay hirers a lot of money because I remember when I was starting a lot of my stuff, I'm like, man, I don't have I can only I don't have enough money to pay a high-quality person a lot of money. I It's a trap.
6:15
Yeah, I'm like, I wish I could afford to pay someone three or two hundred thousand dollars a year, so I could recruit a certain type of person, so I could spend time with them.
6:23
Um and so that has changed as well.
6:26
Well, like, what's an example?
6:28
So like the Hustle, traditionally, you know, media companies uh when they start, they obviously they don't make a ton of revenue.
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You're putting out free content.
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Um and writers are typically not that well paid.
6:40
However, like so would that count as it was more in the towards the bad end of the spectrum or was it on the good end?
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Because you did hire people like Steph Smith and Trung and a bunch of other people. people eventually.
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I hired great people eventually, but like for example, um a good media like you could you could run your media company a few different ways.
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You could particularly for sa- sellers, for ad sales people, you could pay them 60 grand a year and say they have a quota of only 400,000 dollars and they get they make 105 grand when they hit their on-target earnings.
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Or you could go hire someone who you're going to pay $200,000 base plus a higher commission and their ex- expectations is that they're going to sell two or three million dollars worth of stuff.
7:18
And typically, those people who are more competent and capable, I find are more enjoyable to be around.
7:23
And so like things like that where I'm building a business that hires less people who I pay more, cuz that setup I think is more enjoyable.
7:30
So I had the same problem cuz my first business was in the restaurant industry.
7:35
And the restaurant industry is basically like uh you know, what is what what is the worst type of business you could you could select?
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I think it's probably I don't know if it's the worst, but it's down there.
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It's hanging out with the worst, whatever it is, right?
7:47
So, almost all of them fail.
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Um even when they succeed, they have like 10% net margins typically.
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And you got to open up like multiple locations to get to ever make it big or have enough cash flow from a business like that to hire high-quality like high you know, highly seasoned people.
8:03
And so, I remember meeting the guy who ran Chipotle.
8:07
I think he was a CEO or COO of Chipotle time.
8:09
And we were trying to create the Chipotle of sushi.
8:12
And I was like, all right, you know, like give me your advice.
8:13
I didn't even know what question to ask, but I was like, give me your advice.
8:15
And he's like, well, think of it this way.
8:19
Your entire product is in the hands of somebody who makes $9 an hour and doesn't want to be there.
8:26
And and every custom everything you're telling me right now about how great the user experience is going to be, that's true for restaurant one.
8:34
It might be true for restaurants two and three.
8:36
By restaurant four, it's no longer true cuz you're not there anymore uh to do the all those amazing things and give that amazing user experience.
8:43
He goes, the trick in this business is whoever can figure out how to get minimum wage employees to give somebody a good experience, uh they you get you get to win.
8:51
That's the winning condition.
8:53
And he goes, so you know, for like Chipotle, we ended up doing a bunch of things to try it try to improve that.
8:58
He's like, you know, I'm not I don't know if we did it fully, but like they did a couple things like for example, if anybody if you're a manager at Chipotle and anyone you manage becomes a manager of a restaurant, you get $10,000 whether you work at that company or not. Just like ever.
9:12
Because it's like you had a hand in Oh, that's sick.
9:15
in leading that person to be a to I don't know if they still do this, but at the time they did.
9:18
Um they also changed the title.
9:20
So, like the manager was called like restaurant tour or something like that.
9:23
And they paid them above market.
9:24
And they're like, you know, we're doing all these things to try to fix it.
9:27
Starbucks did the same thing giving people benefits so that they stick around and actually stick with the job versus really high churn.
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But, nobody's really figured that out.
9:34
Point is, I remember it was just wasn't a lot of fun to be in that business cuz I couldn't relate, you know, all the things I love.
9:41
I'm an entrepreneur, I'm thinking about ideas or um you know, raising capital.
9:44
I got big goals, big dreams, and I'm coming into work every day with somebody whose goal and dream is to get off work early.
9:51
That is the like they're that would be the the best thing that could happen to them at work that day.
9:55
And I was like, "Shit, that's not that inspiring every day to like kind of And I I don't mean that's a knock at anybody, it's just the truth.
10:01
It's like you you're going to hang around certain people when you run a business.
10:06
Ideally, you'd be around people who are very very like-minded to you in the sense of they share similar values and goals and aspirations, and then it becomes contagious.
10:12
And then they're sharing learnings what with you.
10:14
And like, I remember we interviewed I remember we were interviewing people for like this position cuz we kept having people flake out.
10:20
They would just leave or they would steal or stuff like that.
10:25
And like, my buddy who was interviewing he goes, "Well, I like this person.
10:27
Um they had all their teeth." I was like, "What?"
10:30
And he's like, "I don't know.
10:32
I was like, I'm I'm just looking for symbols.
10:33
I just He's like, last three people stole from us, and that sucked.
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I just want somebody who's not going to steal from us.
10:38
Like, that's my new bar first.
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And like, after that, I could figure out uh higher higher level requirements."
10:43
And so, Did you see on um did you see on the TV show Bear where they hire this, you know, this guy, and on the first day they catch him outside smoking crack, and they're like, "I think I need to fire you, but I I should go but I should go ask."
10:58
And he's like, "Yes, Chef. Fire him." Yeah.
11:02
And by the way, there's one lesson in there, which is my dad told me something.
11:05
He goes, "Look, uh you're building a small business."
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And he goes, "But look but think about it, you're still spending like every waking moment thinking about how to make this thing successful."
11:15
He goes, "If you worked on a big business, you don't have to spend double the hours.
11:18
You're still going to spend every waking moment trying to think of how to make it successful.
11:21
A big business and a small business both take the same amount of time.
11:23
Why would you choose a small business?"
11:25
And that to me was the right advice for me for who I was.
11:29
That's not the right advice for everybody, but like somebody out there needs to hear that right now, which is that like this idea that a a small thing is somehow easier or or less painful is just not true.
11:41
It is not true, and it feels nice to be able to like pay people a lot of money or hire a certain type of person that makes your day-to-day far more enjoyable.
11:50
Um talk about the naming thing.
11:52
My opinion has changed on that to align with yours.
11:54
So one one thing we have here is branding or naming at the beginning.
11:57
So um I've evolved my philosophy, so I I used to try to get the whole thing right right away.
12:04
I was very precious about my idea, and I wanted it to my baby to be cute and be ready for its first day of school.
12:10
And then I realized that nobody cares about my baby, and that I have no customers, and nobody's paying attention.
12:15
This thing could be called dog crap, and it doesn't matter uh until it matters.
12:18
And so now here's the balance that I figured out for me.
12:23
Um in most cases, I try to get the name right off the bat cuz changing the name is kind of annoying.
12:27
You lose the brand recognition.
12:29
Um and I try to get the trademark cuz I made that mistake before of not owning my trademark and having to change my name a year or two in because I realized, "Oh, I'll never be able to sell this without owning the trademark."
12:40
And so that was a big mistake.
12:42
Uh but I don't know if that's true, dude. What do you mean?
12:45
I don't own I I sold the Hustle without owning that trademark.
12:47
You didn't own a trademark for the Hustle as a media company? You didn't own anything?
12:52
Cuz I know they have it now. We looked it up. They have it now.
12:54
But what but what happens is if they look and they see that they can't get it cuz it's taken, now you have a problem.
13:00
Now you're either going to get negotiated down. Is that true?
13:03
I See, I didn't even know that.
13:05
Like when Moiz was selling Native Deodorant, he didn't own the trademark. And it was an issue?
13:10
He's got the deal done, and they're like, "Wait, you don't have the trademark?"
13:13
He's like, "Yeah, but there's no other Native Deodorant."
13:14
He They're like, "Okay, junior.
13:15
What are you talking about?
13:17
That's not how this works."
13:19
Um you know, and so they then he's like, "Okay, uh who the He He's like, "I'll just go file for it."
13:24
They're like, "Nope, it's taken by some guy, some woman, or some guy sitting in Palo Alto doing nothing, just squatting on it."
13:33
And he goes to that person, he's like, "Hey, I'd like the trademark."
13:34
He tells the story on the on his episode of the pod, I think.
13:36
It's like one of the first 10 episodes of this podcast.
13:38
But the short version is, he goes and he offers the person some like, you know, he's like, "Hey, can I have it?" And they're like, "No."
13:44
And he's like, "Okay, I'll buy it like, you know, for two grand." And they're like, "No."
13:47
And then they figured out that he's selling his company, and then the the price went like way up.
13:53
And I think he ended up having to buy it for like, either like a quarter million dollars or like one or two million dollars.
13:58
He had to buy the trademark at the last minute. That's so crazy.
14:04
when you're he's selling the company for a hundred million, but like very painful process, um you know, to to do that.
14:08
Better off just having it. You taught me something.
14:10
I I thought that they were nonsense.
14:12
But I But I also used to think name I mean, look, I my company was called The Hustle. That's a horrible name.
14:17
One time I had this conference called Con Con, the content conference.
14:20
Like, I'm I'm I I I My first The first business that I started making money online, it was called It's Juice, baby.
14:27
Like, I Like, I'm horrible with names.
14:29
Um and uh but now I do actually think they're way important.
14:33
Before I was like, "N- Names are [ __ ] It doesn't matter what you call it.
14:37
Someone's going to come."
14:37
Uh now I'm like on board with naming and branding is is very valuable.
14:42
So, I don't think a bad name kills you, but a good name lifts you. I completely agree.
14:47
I think great design is a huge value add and costs almost nothing.
14:52
To have great design versus okay to bad design, it's not actually more money that it takes. It's taste.
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You just have to have the right people to do it.
15:00
You can pay for that taste, like you can pay a a fancy agency cuz you know they have the taste.
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But you can also just have taste yourself or find somebody that's cheaper that has taste.
15:10
My feeling on design is I don't start with fancy design.
15:14
I start with like, you know, whatever simple design, and then I set a milestone almost as a reward, which is if we get to X, then I'm going to fancy pants my design cuz it's more for me than it is really for anybody else at that moment.
15:27
Um but it you know, if you're in if you're a consumer packaged good or something like that, then the packaging obviously super important.
15:30
If you're a SaaS tool for whatever your design you know, it doesn't matter as much.
15:37
Before I I launched Hampton, I paid an agency.
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I found an awesome agency overseas.
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So it was like I think 15 or 20 grand and we did a whole branding thing and I'm like I can't believe I'm doing this and it was totally worth it.
15:47
Did I send you that presentation? You did and I liked it.
15:49
Um was like, oh this is cool and that's different.
15:50
You wouldn't have you would have never done that before.
15:53
I have would have done that and it was totally worth it.
15:56
We both were very um cheap with things before.
15:58
I would I wasn't cheap with spending money, but I was cheap with my time meaning I placed no value on my time and I think you were cheap with spending money even though you had a bunch of cash in the bank. Not anymore.
16:10
Then when I saw you spend 20k on your branding before and I was like, oh that makes sense.
16:15
He's got a killer name for his community Hampton and then he's got like a really classy design that makes it feel elevated, which is my word of the year.
16:24
Um then I was like, oh yeah, what are the areas where I've been cheap?
16:26
And one of mine for example was in recruiting.
16:28
So I used to take pride in just recruiting myself by hand hunting and I would just be like, yeah, I'm going to go find people and I'm going to like message them and I'm going to cold email them and I'm going to convince them and I'm going to interview them and I'm going to and now I hire recruiters and I'm like, oh For which roles? For every role? Anything.
16:48
If I had if I need to hire, first thing I do, I just text my recruiter, this guy Carson.
16:51
I'm like, yo Carson, I need X.
16:53
And uh he's like a great e-com recruiter and so I'm like, Carson, I need a I need X and he's like, on it.
16:59
And he's like super aggressive and so he's just like instantly will start sending me LinkedIns.
17:04
I'm like, yes, no, yes, no.
17:06
He does Is he a full-time employee?
17:06
No, no, he's he's got his own agency.
17:08
Um he's his own recruit he's his own solo shop.
17:11
And so um so I use him to hire for these roles and it just saves a ton of time and then I'm able to and I have him sometimes I'll be like, "Yo, join this call so that you see what I ask so that when you're screening candidates, you just ask these questions before me, right?"
17:26
And I'm getting a way better result using recruiters and yeah, you pay the commission when when you when you hire the person, but like hiring a great person faster is uh is totally worth it.
17:38
So, how do you without blowing up this guy Carson's spot, how do you pay him?
17:41
Do you pay him a percentage of uh is a one recruiters.
17:45
You pay a percentage of their first-year salary.
17:46
And if they don't And then do you pay him like 6 months later?
17:49
Uh I pay him I think I What I do with him is I pay him like 30 days after they join, but if they don't work out like uh like we had one person didn't who didn't work out 3 months in.
17:57
So, if it if they don't make it 3 months, then he just reimburses or credits it back or whatever.
18:03
And then do you um do you do it for all like even an entry-level position? Everything. Anything I need. Anything I need now.
18:09
I'm like what Whatever I would spend the time doing, this guy is going to spend all of his time doing.
18:13
And um so, it just moves faster and he's better and I'm like, "Why the [ __ ] wasn't I using recruit I used to used to take pride and I was like, "What am I trying to save here?"
18:22
The like you know, let's say you just hire somebody for 100 grand.
18:24
Let's say the recruiter fee might be 15 or 20%.
18:28
So, you're going to pay 15 or 20 grand. That's a lot of money. Yes.
18:31
But I do it my busi- If If your business is working then it makes total sense to be using recruiters to increase your pipeline and and save time and get the get good butts in seats faster versus trying to do it yourself.
18:46
That's time you're not focused on the business that takes longer.
18:50
Uh the biggest thing that's changed with me with hiring is um reference checks.
18:54
So, like for example, I uh messaged someone 2 days ago.
18:56
I go, "Hey, I'm thinking about um hiring this one person.
19:00
Uh do you think that they'd be decent at managing a small team?"
19:03
And it says, "I don't think they could manage anyone, let alone themselves." That was the reply.
19:10
And my reply to my re- or my to that was uh All right, thanks.
19:14
And I don't hire that person. Like it's just so easy.
19:17
should be thank you so much. What's your address?
19:19
I'm sending you something because most reference checks will not give you honesty.
19:23
The when somebody goes out on a limb is actually like, "Yo, let me save you some pain here and give you my honest truth even though it doesn't feel good to take a opportunity away from somebody."
19:31
It's like, "Yo, sweet baby Jesus, thank you so much. I I I owe you one."
19:37
So, like yeah, I was like over the top like nice to this guy, but uh reference checks are so important and I do two things differently.
19:44
The one, I always ask for like three.
19:46
And then I call those three and I go, "Who else did this person work with?"
19:50
I don't give a [ __ ] about the three that they give me.
19:54
I'm just trying to like I'm trying to like figure out who I can refer who I can speak to that they didn't provide, but also I won't blow up the applicant's spot where if it's like, you know, it's like someone who I will be a little bit secretive and not tell their current employer.
20:06
Um and then so I do that like crazy.
20:08
And then here's what I ask consistently.
20:09
Here's Basically, the point is is I want to hear bad [ __ ] about the person.
20:13
And I want to figure out if the bad stuff is I'm okay with.
20:18
And so I say, "What are they out of scale 1 to 10?"
20:19
They always say an eight or nine.
20:21
And I say, "All right, how can they be a perfect 10? Like what's missing?"
20:24
And then that's typically when they'll tell me like bad stuff.
20:26
And I'm always looking for that bad stuff and I'm like, "Um well, uh you know, they made like mistakes doing X, Y, and Z."
20:34
It's like, "Okay, I can put up with those types of mistakes."
20:35
Or they um they um they like miss deadlines all the time.
20:40
I'm like, "Well, I I'm not going to put up with miss deadlines.
20:41
That's I'm not willing to put up with that."
20:44
So, I like I do a [ __ ] ton of reference checks now.
20:46
So, someone taught me a good way to do reference checks.
20:48
I don't remember the exact question, but it's something along There's There's two things I do on the reference check.
20:52
One is you're just trying to figure out is this person one of the best people that they worked with at that company?
20:58
And so I'll ask you a question I ask the following types of questions.
21:01
following types of questions. I'll say, "You know, my experience is at every company there's like you can look around the room and there's two or three people inevitably in every single company who like they just have the team on their
21:12
back and you're just you just look at them and you think, man, if we didn't have this person, we would be in a rough spot or like you know, these things these good things that are happening just probably wouldn't have happened if not for their force of will. Um
21:21
Um and I would be like, you know, who are the people I use this to recruit to like who are the people like that at your company?
21:29
Or I'll be like would would you count this person as one of those people?
21:30
And just try to see how much conviction they have being like, oh yeah, for sure or like yeah, you know, they're good, right?
21:40
It's like you can say yeah two different ways.
21:41
I'm looking for which one of those it is.
21:43
The second thing I'll ask is I'll be like um you know, I'm thinking about hiring this like I'm leaning towards hiring them cuz I'm kind of trying to disarm them.
21:52
I'm trying to not make them feel like what they say is going to like mess it up but I'll be like, but you know, but what I don't but I don't feel comfortable with this I don't know what they're not good at and everybody has things they're not good at.
22:00
I'm not sure what you know, like I know that they must have things that are going to disappoint me or are going to be things that they're not strong at.
22:08
I just don't know them yet.
22:09
What are they for this person so I can kind of feel like I have the full picture before I before I go ahead and pull the pull the trigger and hire them.
22:15
And that's how I get them to kind of tell me those things.
22:19
Why did you write paid tests? What's that?
22:22
So my thing with hiring is uh I would say two things have improved my hiring.
22:26
Number one, paid tests instead of interviews.
22:28
So I will spend the time I'll spend three or four hours creating a paid test.
22:36
So I create a doc that's here's a brief and I'll say I'm going to pay you.
22:40
And it would depend on the role might be two 200 bucks or might be $2,000.
22:44
I'll pay you to spend a day on this.
22:46
Um cuz I want to see what you do because I just wrote words equal lies.
22:51
It's like I don't really I'd rather just see your work than hear you tell me that you're good at work.
22:57
And so paid tests is now I I towards that.
23:00
In the end that saved me a ton of time.
23:01
The second thing I did, I have a buddy who I let invest in one of my companies that I didn't really need as an investor, but I kind of thought I I kind of realized that like as a CEO, your job is just decision-making, good judgment, over and over and over again.
23:16
the CEO of your e-com business?
23:19
Um no, I'm more like a chairman.
23:19
So, I'm not active day-to-day now.
23:23
But, um I will I don't uh so what I'll do is I'm like, "Oh, CEO's job is just decision-making." Or any leader.
23:29
Let me just forget the word CEO.
23:30
Just any leader's job is decision-making.
23:33
How do I get my decision-making be better?
23:34
And like the difference of making 10 to 20% better decisions every single month adds up.
23:41
That that creates a very different outcome.
23:42
So, I brought this guy in and I and what I told him I go, you know, "I really want your help hiring."
23:46
And he's like, "Yeah, sure.
23:47
I'll you know, see if there's anyone in my network." I go, "No, no, no.
23:50
I want you to do three interviews for this one role for me.
23:52
I'm hiring a CMO, and I a chief marketing officer, and I think this is the make or break hire for this business.
23:59
I want you on the call, and I want you to lead the interview, and I want to listen."
24:02
And so, we did two things.
24:02
First, I would interview them separately.
24:04
Wait, you you an investor?
24:04
You you let an investor do that?
24:07
He's my one of my best friends, and yes, he invested in my company. Got it.
24:10
Uh and he's a he's himself a founder and and and whatever.
24:12
So, he's just got a lot of experience, and he I've seen him make great hires.
24:15
And so, what happened was I would interview them, then he would interview them.
24:19
I would like them, and he'd be like, "No, trash." I'm like, "What? Interesting.
24:25
Uh what makes you say that?
24:25
What did I like, and what did you what not like?"
24:28
And the thing for him was always like, "Uh yeah, I pressed him for specifics, and he didn't have any."
24:32
He's like and what I realized was he presses for specifics way more than I was previously doing.
24:39
So, I would say like um I would try to figure out how do you have experience doing this?
24:45
Uh you know, how would you rate yourself in this? Tell me a story.
24:46
They would tell me one story.
24:48
What he would say is like, um "Cool, what are the rev What was the revenue when you started?
24:53
What was it you know, and then how did it grow in the first 18 months?"
24:55
And they're like he's like, "If they don't even know that number, then they're out.
24:58
You know, if you're if you're CMO and you don't know how much of the revenue changed from day one to day you know month 12 or whatever, you're out.
25:04
Then he's like, they would say the number he'd be like, cool.
25:06
What were the three things that you did that most impacted that?
25:12
And he's like, you know, if you can't tell me three wins you've had in the three years you've worked there that like most impacted the the and then he would say, oh, you did that thing? Okay, cool.
25:20
Can you screen share real quick and just show me like uh you're saying you did this?
25:23
Can you just show me how you think about this?
25:25
I want to hear you talk out loud.
25:26
And I was like, oh, okay.
25:27
There's a different level level of specificity here that I need to be doing in my interview.
25:32
So, a very useful thing was seeing how a master does it so that I could up my game.
25:39
That's kind of an interesting thing cuz I've changed I did a 180. your before? What's your after?
25:45
I would create my before is I would create like the most ambitious goals um because it was just like it was like mental masturbation of like just using the spreadsheet and like saying like, yeah, we're going to 3x this year. And then like Yeah, 5x. Look at that.
26:00
Yeah, I'm like I'd be like, yeah, can you like change that three to a five and change this zero to a nine and like it's like, boom, we're there.
26:08
All right, get after it, guys.
26:09
Like and I didn't understand that like A, they're the one doing the work and so it's kind of [ __ ] that I'm like creating these crazy goals that I there's no math behind it.
26:17
I also thought that like really ambitious goals were inspiring.
26:21
Um I I actually think uh achievable goals are inspiring and I try to hit like 75% of the goals that we set.
26:29
If I'm if I'm not hitting about 80%, um my goal setting was quite bad.
26:34
So, I I hitting goals hitting hitting goals that are not that ambitious, I think gets you a better outcome than missing incredibly ambitious goals.
26:45
I Like it creates more momentum. with you.
26:47
Momentum is Momentum is key.
26:52
Our software is the worst.
26:52
Have you heard of HubSpot?
26:54
See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
27:01
I think I love our new CRM.
27:03
Our software is the best. HubSpot, grow better.
27:08
My goal thing now, uh so every time I start a project, whether it's a company or inside of a company, just like a initiative, I got this thing called the kickoff doc.
27:15
It's a one-page doc that I fill out religiously, and it's basically like starts as just like, "What are we trying to do here?"
27:22
"Oh, we're trying to do this."
27:22
In plain English, what are we trying to do?
27:24
Then, what does winning look like?
27:24
And this is where I set uh two goals.
27:27
So, I have a floor goal and what I call the F yeah goal.
27:30
The floor goal is basically like, you know, if it was below this, I'd be surprised and I'd be a little disappointed.
27:39
And then the F yeah goal is, what would have us running around here chest bumping, being like, "Oh my god, I can't believe it happened."
27:47
And now I have this range, and I have kind of like my min and my dream.
27:52
And of course we're going to shoot for the dream, but we're going to make sure that we also understand that like a win is a win, and anything above this floor is a win.
28:00
And we have the two targets.
28:02
We ask ourselves, "What would it take to get to the floor?
28:03
What would it take to get to the to the to the F yeah goal? To get to the ceiling?"
28:07
And so, that's the first thing I do.
28:07
The second thing I do is I set an anti-goal.
28:10
Learned this from Andrew Wilkinson, which was Yeah, that was smart.
28:11
You could achieve your you know, you could double revenue, but if I wake up every day and I'm stressed out, or if I doubled revenue, but profits went to zero cuz I spent so much on marketing, well, then I kind of lost while winning.
28:26
So, anti-goals, like, you know, I'm not trying to work so hard I don't see my kids, right?
28:28
Like, in life, I think anti-goals are really important to counterbalance.
28:32
What And what are the specific thing here is, what are the understandable traps we could fall into while trying to achieve those goals?
28:43
So, for example, with this podcast, you'd be like, "Oh, I want to double reve- double downloads." Great.
28:45
What's a trap you could fall into?
28:49
Every day I'm on the algorithm trying to figure out what click-baity [ __ ] I could do where I'm knocking on neighbors' doors asking them how they made their money and then I pants them and then I put a pie in their face.
28:59
Like, yeah, that would do it, but I would sell my soul and lose some dignity and not have that much fun doing it.
29:06
So, that's like losing while winning.
29:07
So, I think anti-goals are really important. I started doing those.
29:10
The next thing on goal setting is I realized that much more important than the goal like it's like I would do these like big bursts where it's like we do this planning and then set this goal and like 3 months later it's like, "Hey, what's the goal?"
29:21
And then like it's not even on the tip of anyone's tongue.
29:24
And I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] This is backwards."
29:25
Like, first of all, I shouldn't be the one setting the goals.
29:30
Um because like, you know in Game of Thrones the opening scene where Ned Stark has to like execute the guy and his son is like, "Oh, do you have to do this?
29:38
Like, can't someone else do this?"
29:39
And he says, "No, like he who speaks the sentence must swing the sword."
29:43
And it's like I can't expect you to go do all the work for some goal I set sitting in my boxers in Excel. Right?
29:50
Like Uh now it's like if I'm going to set a marketing goal, I'm going to set it with and really like the CMO has to own that goal.
29:56
They have to know that that's what they want, that that's what they think is achievable.
29:58
Um I'm going to push back or hold the standard, but they're going to ultimately speak the sentence cuz they're going to be the ones who swings the sword.
30:05
So, I make them do it and then the second thing I do is I enforce that it's How do we keep this top-of-mind and at the tip of our tongue?
30:13
And that's like creating rituals where we're seeing things daily and weekly that um tracks to it cuz it's far more important to regularly look at the KPIs and ask ask the right questions versus trying to set a great goal once and then never thinking about it or not really looking at it on a religious basis.
30:33
Do you lose your temper and yell Have you ever made someone cry? Like an employee?
30:37
Have you ever made an employee cry cuz you yelled at them?
30:38
Not cuz he get No, I never yell, but uh I've never made them cry cuz of yelling. done that?
30:43
I I've I don't think I've ever yelled, no.
30:45
Um I can be I can be like kind of I'll I can I'll curse.
30:50
Like I'll be like, "Hold on.
30:52
Like, what the [ __ ] are we doing here?" Right?
30:54
But it's more of that than I just be like been like, "You're an idiot."
30:56
You've never insulted someone.
31:00
I'm sure that I've been You know, just punched them in the face or just I'm sure I've been rude, but but it's you know, there's some finesse to my rudeness where it's like a you know, it's a backhanded slap, not a front-handed slap type of thing.
31:13
There's been many times in the past where I've lost my anger and I'll be really just a huge [ __ ] to someone and uh and uh It's like I deeply regret that.
31:23
Not only do I regret that because it was just silly, but like so the way that I used to like uh react to bad news is I would um I would yell at people sometimes and I would lose my temper and I would freak out.
31:39
And I realize that that is just so weak for so many That is just a bad One, you I I I I come to this I've come to the conclusion I can't change people.
31:49
So, if I think someone is just repeatedly not screwing up, I I just I shouldn't have hired them. I made that mistake.
31:55
Someone is either great You normally a great executor who sometimes makes mistakes or you're just never going to change and you're just not good.
32:03
Like, I think losers exist and I don't want to surround myself with them.
32:08
Um that's kind of like my my attitude. your sign.
32:10
It's like a a store that's like, you know, no shoes, no shirt, no service.
32:13
It's like, "Losers exist. We must avoid them." Like, keep them out.
32:17
Yeah, like I think that that's real. Uh like losers exist.
32:19
And sometimes I've been a loser.
32:22
this out when I was working at Twitch.
32:22
I go or like right after I left Twitch, I think. I tweeted this out.
32:24
I go Well, you know, uh seems to be a pattern.
32:28
You know, basically there's a pattern now, which is that when someone's great, odds are they're great kind of right away.
32:35
Like, um of course there are exceptions, but I would say the general rule is that the best people I've ever hired it's pretty obvious within 3 4 weeks that they're amazing, and then they just stay amazing.
32:45
And of the people that were late bloomers, the key there was just the the only consistent pattern I found was I hired somebody before I even understood what role they should have or what the role is.
32:57
And like, when they had an undefined role, they didn't really do very well.
33:01
But then when I defined a role for them, and I said, "Look, this is what you got to do." they performed.
33:06
And it What I found is that when I have a defined role for someone and they're not very good, it never never really changes for me.
33:13
Yeah, you can't change them. You can't change people.
33:14
And I used to be I used to lose my temper, and I would like curse, and I would and I definitely made people feel stupid, and that was that's such a bad mistake because, uh, A, that's just wrong.
33:24
That's just not how you should treat people.
33:25
But, B, I'm not going to get my desired outcome.
33:28
They're not going to change. Exactly.
33:29
I I I still suck at that. I would be honest.
33:31
I'm not like a yeller, but I can make people feel small.
33:33
And I kind of realized this the other day.
33:36
I was like, "In every interaction, you're either going to walk away like you're going to leave someone and they're either going to feel a little bit small like they're going to feel either smaller or bigger based on how that interaction went, how you treated them."
33:49
And I was like, "Damn, I I think I make people feel small a lot."
33:51
And you know, I'm I think I'm doing it in service of like "We're doing dumb [ __ ] We need to do the right thing."
33:59
But I'm definitely not like I've seen people who are really good at still getting the thing done without ever making people feel small.
34:07
And I want to learn that Jedi magic. Who's an example?
34:09
Who's an example of someone who does that?
34:11
Um Our buddy Sully, I think is pretty good at that.
34:15
I don't know what he's like inside of a company, but like I've seen him kind of like as, uh, advisor type of guy.
34:22
And, um I know what he's thinking in the moment.
34:25
I'm like, "Oh, man, he's got to be looking at this being like, what in the actual [ __ ] is going on here?"
34:31
But that's not what comes out of his mouth.
34:33
And he will finesse his way there.
34:35
And I don't think it's cuz he's a kinder, nicer person.
34:37
I think it's cuz the last thing you said, which was I think he's realized that's not how you get to your desired outcome.
34:44
That's just That's not how you get to your desired outcome. No, not at all. Exactly.
34:45
So So I think that that's a that's definitely a an area to to improve.
34:51
In fact, like the one time I did make somebody cry is when I was firing somebody and I realized in that moment I was like, oh, he's not crying cuz he's sad that he's getting fired.
34:59
Obviously is a part of it, but he's very surprised. And that's on me.
35:03
Like I was too scared to be clear up front that hey, this isn't going the way we need it to go and it's got to go differently and here's what the level is.
35:13
And there's not like this currently not at the level.
35:18
And so I I avoided that tough conversation there and now I'm having a tougher conversation because I avoided that one.
35:25
How many people have you fired? I don't know, like 20. Really? Yeah.
35:32
That's That's a lot, right?
35:32
I don't know, I've been going for 16 years.
35:33
Like one a year is not not that not that much.
35:39
I've not fired that many people. I'm such a punk.
35:41
So there's a story about Dave Port There's a story about Dave Portnoy and like Dave Portnoy is like, I don't fire people.
35:48
Like it's impossible to get fired by me.
35:49
I I'll just pay you and you just are lazy and a bum and I'll just make fun of you and it's good content.
35:54
I kind of feel the same way. I suck at firing. I I have a good script.
35:59
I basically say like right off the bat and go, all right, this conversation's going to stink, but I'm firing you today and we can talk about why if you want.
36:06
Now I don't even say why.
36:06
I'm just like this isn't working out because it doesn't benefit me to say why.
36:09
It only hurts you cuz they can sue you.
36:11
But I'm horrible at firing people.
36:14
Like I I like I'm such a punk.
36:16
I like I hate having that conversation that I avoid it.
36:19
Yeah, but it's just like anything else.
36:20
Like you just stretch the pain out longer versus ripping off the band-aid.
36:25
The key is and I say this because everybody who every manager every who becomes a manager of any people like don't worry, you suck.
36:32
Everybody sucks as a manager at the beginning.
36:34
Nobody is naturally just like an amazing manager right off the bat.
36:37
It is a learned skill and uh the key to firing though if you learn nothing else about firing uh is in the first 10 seconds, you need to say the news.
36:47
Just do not beat around the bush.
36:47
Uh you know, the reason we're here today is because we're going to let you go.
36:53
And um you know And that that has to come out of your mouth in the first 10 seconds.
36:55
And if you say anything else Right away.
36:58
in the first 10 seconds, just realize you're being a complete [ __ ] cuz uh when it does come and they realize, "Wait, what were you just saying all that stuff about? Why didn't what?"
37:06
And you're going to blindside them in a much worse way. It's it's key. Absolutely key.
37:13
Um I have a couple other areas I want to ask you about.
37:15
One is I think probably the key to making [ __ ] work.
37:20
Keeping things simple and focused.
37:20
So, knowing what to say yes to and what to say no to.
37:25
Do you have anything that you actually do to make that to like do that better now?
37:30
I think that I'm so good at focus that I'm bad at it.
37:33
I've missed a lot of interesting opportunities, but by default, I say no to everything.
37:36
And it's actually cost me um a bunch.
37:39
Um like for example, um at the Hustle, we thought about launching multiple newsletters and I was like, "Nope, we're just going to do this one thing and we're going to do it well because Scott Belsky told me to focus and to only do this one thing.
37:52
So, I'm literally going to say no to everything."
37:55
And our competitor did and they scaled their revenue significantly faster.
37:58
So, I said no to too much actually.
38:00
But um I might my default was just I'm going to say no to everything. That's interesting. I'm the opposite.
38:07
I'm a shiny object, you know, syndrome kind of guy and so By the way, the Hustle didn't we didn't even have an Instagram handle until like 4 years in.
38:15
Like I like I was like, "No, we're not going to do social media. We're doing nothing."
38:22
It was like we're not doing nothing.
38:23
We're just sending you this one stupid newsletter all the time. have lunch? No.
38:30
Dude, one of my biggest one of my Speaking of By the way, I used to be really cheap.
38:33
One of Deep in my soul, the thing that hurts me most is one time I bought all the supplies from Costco for a conference and I ended up returning $2,000 worth of like canned soda and stuff and like the lady at the front desk was like You're pathetic.
38:52
Because I was like, what?
38:54
And she's like, you know we throw all this stuff away.
38:55
Is this just some from some party that you threw?
38:57
And it was like my answer was even worse, which was like No, it's for a business conference that made a lot of money.
39:04
And like And like It hurts my soul that I was so cheap that I returned open cans of soda to Costco for $2,000. It It like crushes me.
39:15
Like like the 24 like the 24 case was like uh Partially used. Yeah.
39:18
And I And like I was like, I can't believe that was such a punk move.
39:23
I can't believe I did that.
39:26
Uh that's one of my biggest regrets.
39:29
That's next to this one time I tipped this taxi driver and he said, "Oh, no, you don't need to do this."
39:33
And I said, "Oh, no, you need it."
39:35
Instead of you earned it.
39:37
Like those two things are like the two things that like crush my soul.
39:41
I'm like, I can't believe I said that.
39:43
Um but what what what what what were you saying?
39:45
You're talking about um Focus.
39:47
What were you talking about? Focus. [ __ ] focus. As we get back on track.
39:54
Um I create I I now have a a thing which is I I create a a a doc for every business every year that's called the the big bets doc, which is basically like we we are going to make some bets this year.
40:05
We're going to do some things.
40:07
Um but let's be super um conscious about what we're saying yes to and what we're saying no to.
40:12
So, my big bets doc and I'll literally write it like this.
40:15
I'll say something like We uh bet number one.
40:21
Um we really suck at inventory management.
40:23
Today, forecasting is just me looking at the spreadsheet and making up numbers based on what I hope happens.
40:29
Uh I know there's probably a smarter way to do this.
40:31
Other people certainly have solved this problem.
40:34
Um I need to figure out how to hire people who know how to do this.
40:35
So, the bet is I'm going to hire two people and that's going to lower our waste from X to Y.
40:41
And I write a sentence like that. And then that's my bet.
40:44
I'm going to make this higher for this outcome. Because of this problem.
40:48
And I write in a bet number two.
40:51
Um you know, You keep talking about businesses though.
40:54
Are you What How many are you What How many Well, like I would do this even for the podcast, right? Like big bets, right? Um hiring Ari. Okay, why? Why Why'd you do this?
41:03
Why did you make this bet?
41:03
Or we just launched the clips channel.
41:05
Okay, why am I going through this effort where I'm sitting here clipping my favorite parts of podcasts because I hope that somebody out there wants to just listen to the best parts on YouTube when they come up because that's how I like to listen to things.
41:17
And so I'll write it out and I'm like if I'm going to invest my effort, my time, my money into something, uh then I write it out.
41:23
Or like, you know, maybe it's for Shepherd.
41:27
For Shepherd, hey, here's the bets that we're going to make.
41:28
Um and so I'll do this exercise cuz it's so useful.
41:30
So, I write the big bets and it's like here's the three to four big bets that we're going to make.
41:35
The things that we're going to bet on, that we're going to do, that we're going to invest in, and we're going to try to do really, really well.
41:41
And then I'll make the no list right before that.
41:42
And the no list I write there are a bunch of other things that we could talk ourselves into doing that are easily justifiable.
41:47
However, we're going to say no to these things this year because we want to do that we actually want the things above to happen.
41:55
And then I'll make the no list.
41:57
Here's the things we're not going to do this year that we could totally could have talked ourselves into.
42:00
So, for me that was a very useful exercise.
42:02
And then when I bring people on, everybody I sit down with them with this big bets list.
42:08
I'm like, here's what we're doing.
42:09
And then if they're the one responsible for it, I I treat it like a commercial cuz I'm like, I need to make this memorable.
42:13
I need this person to wake up and remember cuz it's not just for me to be focused.
42:17
I need my whole team to be focused. How do I do that?
42:21
I basically shrink down one of these bets into a almost like a like a slogan or a jingle for their role.
42:28
It's like, your your mission is this. Remember that.
42:30
And I'm going to say that to you probably a hundred times in the next three months.
42:35
And um we're just going to keep checking in on that.
42:37
And that's how I'm going to bonus you is if you did that or not.
42:38
And that's how I'm going to assess your performance is if you did that or not.
42:42
And if I ever if if I ever what's the priority? It's that. That's the priority.
42:45
And I took this cuz like Peter Thiel said that he did this at PayPal.
42:49
He's like, yeah, I don't know whatever.
42:50
Management's not my favorite thing.
42:50
So, here's my shortcut to management.
42:54
Everybody at any time has one priority.
42:57
And if you ever try to talk to me about not that priority, I will just simply leave the room.
43:00
And I thought that was just the visual of that was so funny to me. What a [ __ ] weirdo.
43:06
That I was like Like, Peter, can you can you be normal for what?
43:08
Like, yeah, what if if someone has walked up walk stood up and walked away when I was telling telling them about stuff?
43:14
I'm like, dude, can you just be normal for an idea about a new program that we could do.
43:18
And he just like drifts away like a hot air balloon. What a weirdo, man.
43:26
Uh there's stories of I think there's stor- there's stories of Elon doing that, too.
43:29
Or like in an interview like within 30 seconds he would be like, oh, I'm not interested in this person.
43:33
And so, he would just hang up.
43:36
Yeah, he he emailed out at Tesla, too. laptop closing.
43:38
He was like um if you're in a meeting and in the first few minutes of the meeting you realize that this is not useful to you or to anybody, please stand up and leave.
43:46
Uh like, your time is valuable.
43:48
These meetings are a drain.
43:49
And uh vote with your feet. Just get up and go.
43:52
That is a completely acceptable behavior here at Tesla.
43:57
Do you ever send emails with the one of those emails where the subject is the body of the email? Yeah, of course.
44:03
It's just like a pager basically.
44:05
You're treating it like a pager.
44:08
I had one of my only jobs I ever had, my boss sent me an email like that, and I was like, "Is this how we send emails?"
44:14
And then I I sent them an email.
44:16
I go, "What's the status on this this thing?"
44:18
And it was in the subject.
44:21
And the reply was, "Don't ever send me an email like this again."
44:24
Uh it was a very very stressful I I actually I think there are those levels.
44:28
So, basically what I realized is that rich people or busy people treat email like texting.
44:34
So, their email is like uh lower case on their phone, one line, totally fine.
44:39
That's like their normal way of of emailing.
44:41
And then mega rich people treat email like it's letters.
44:46
They'll have somebody actually screen them, print them out, and then they'll kind of like review them at their desk in paper.
44:50
This is like the old school way of of of doing things. you know who does that?
44:54
I think Mark Lorey does that, if I had to guess.
44:55
I feel like he did tell us that. Uh Trump does that.
44:59
He Well, no, he told us he didn't even own a computer.
45:01
own a computer, yeah, but like I I've I met a couple people who One of my old bosses used to do that.
45:05
Like, he used to print out his important assistant would print out his important emails and just put them on his desk so that he could like see them, and he would just leave a sticky note on them, and she would go figure out what to do.
45:14
Um I you know, I worked for a guy who had four women at the office with giant TV screens just managing his inbound emails.
45:22
And he would just stand and walk around.
45:23
They'd be like, "Oh, this person said this."
45:25
They'd pull it up on the screen.
45:25
And he would just orally dictate his reply, and then he would walk away, and then they would just keep managing. It's just insane.
45:31
I mean, most of the day I feel like I'm responding to stupid ass messages like on Slack, Twitter, text, email.
45:38
It I cannot stand it, man. It is so hard.
45:41
So, I actually think printing out that thing and replying could be kind of cool, actually.
45:44
Yeah, or creating You need some kind of firewall.
45:46
Like, for me, it's like my assistant is the firewall.
45:49
She triages all the emails, and then I only check my email for 30 minutes a day.
45:52
Like, you know, cuz it's already taken care of.
45:54
And if there's something that needed a faster reply, she'll tell me.
45:57
She'll text me, and then that's it.
45:59
Um Uh there was one other thing that was going to share, which is um there's a big difference, I think that's worth saying, which is pre-product market fit and post.
46:10
So, pre-product market fit, what you do versus post is very different.
46:15
I think most of this call has been about post, but actually like most of my life has been about before you have product market fit.
46:22
Before you have product market fit, you don't do any of these things.
46:24
You literally just figure out what your product is and you go try to sell it and get customers.
46:27
And then you basically get rejected and yeah, you handle that and you iterate until you figure out what the product should be and who the customer should be and you've proven how to get product and customers to go up.
46:40
Um and you know, to connect and and get more customers.
46:44
Like, I think that's worth saying, too.
46:46
And then after you have figured that out, after you have figured out that this product actually has a market and you know how to communicate it to customers, you know how to get customers, then you hire people to like do more of that.
46:57
And I would say like, I saw you first hand with Hampton doing this, where like there was a couple months where you showed me your calendar and it looked like a Jenga tower.
47:05
It was 20-minute calls stacked on top of each other, sometimes overlapping.
47:13
And I was like, what is this?
47:13
Like, where do you And you're like, yeah, I'm trying to go get the members for Hampton.
47:18
I'm trying to figure out what Hampton is.
47:20
And you you sent me like a like a kind of a script or like a landing page.
47:23
You were writing it yourself, trying to explain what the benefits are and who it's for.
47:26
And you considered like, you know, should I take this angle or this angle or this angle?
47:31
And I like would help you like reply on the Google document.
47:34
Well, it's kind of like uh it's kind of like being a comedian.
47:36
You know what I'm saying?
47:37
Like when you when Hasan Minhaj finally does his Netflix show, he's done 200 before that and you see which angle hits. And it's the same thing.
47:44
It's like I got to see which angle which angle's hitting.
47:48
Um someone tweeted out or something.
47:50
They're like, um product market product market fit is like sex.
47:54
If you have to ask, you're not having it or something like that.
47:56
And I was like, that's so stupid.
47:58
I've definitely asked in both of those situations if I have it or not.
48:06
I was like, that's one of those lines That's one of those lines that sounds good, but that ain't true.
48:13
I was uncertain multiple times about both of them things. Is it happening? Is this it? Is this happening? Are we doing it?
48:25
And on that note That's the pod.