Cardi B: Making “Imaginary Playerz” & AM I THE DRAMA? | Zane Lowe Interview

0:00

What is going on, honey? >> I cannot believe it.

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I mean, we've spoken via all of this with like technology doing the work. Yeah.

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>> But I'm looking forward to the chance to sit opposite you to say thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you for >> Well, yeah. Cuz you know what?

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I do feel like I talk to you often, but it's never >> like this. It's crazy, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's the modern world.

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I don't know if I like it, but I like this. This feels good to me. >> This was good.

0:23

>> It does feel good to me as well.

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Um, so happy you're back with music. >> Thank you.

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>> I know you took your time.

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I'm not worried about that.

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And everyone worries about time cuz really from a good place they want the music.

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But I think it's really important when an artist like you comes back when you want to come back when you're ready to come back.

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You teach us a lesson to like your patience is okay. >> Yeah.

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I mean I'm never doing it again.

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But I'm going come back sooner next time around. But >> yeah. Yeah.

0:50

Did it get did it get Were there moments cuz there was a lot of life going on around this time as well.

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It wasn't just like you were like sitting on music.

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You were trying to find balance.

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I'd imagine that was what was going on. >> Yeah.

1:00

Um it was it was just trying to find balance in life.

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And not only that, but it's just like I don't know like it got to the point for me that it's like nothing was pleasing me.

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>> And it's so funny because it's like even when I I get dressed up, when I wear clothes and stuff, like it's like sometimes I be like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like I already did this.

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Oh my god, I feel like somebody already wears something similar to this."

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And that is the same way that I feel like about music.

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And it's just like it got like you'll be surprised.

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I got like 80 songs that I did probably these past seven years.

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And it's just like I just be like 3 weeks later it's like I don't love it. I don't want it. I feel stupid. It sounds dumb. It's not this.

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And even when like even when like people come and try to like help me, it's like I still don't like it.

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Like it's like I really went through a crash that nothing was pleasing me.

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>> That's that's what Roder's block feels like.

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Like right when you're just like hang on, >> everyone hears something I can't feel.

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>> Yeah, >> that's tough. >> Yeah.

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Like it's like I just didn't like it.

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I just feel like h it's too corny.

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It's too I don't know what it is.

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Like it's like I just wasn't I just wasn't liking nothing.

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And I think I was going crazy.

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Like I feel like I live more in the studio that I live in my in my house.

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So it's just never like it's like oh she's comfortable.

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Oh, she this or she that.

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Like it's like I I feel I feel like now that like my album is completed now I could finally get out the studio and probably exercise or some do something like probably exercise, probably take a class or something.

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But it's like I was in there in there for real and it's like >> when I'm these songs that are on my album are album are songs that I really like because I really almost feel like I don't like nothing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like nothing.

2:43

How much was the success that you achieved with Invasion of Privacy and the songs that came from that?

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And then of course the world opens up and people fall in love with you. Yeah.

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>> So music is the key and then they're like, "Yeah, we love the music, but we love her."

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How much of that got inside your head as well a little bit? >> It's not really much.

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It's just like I just I don't go with the pressure of invasion of privacy because what's funny when it came to invasion of privacy I wasn't really like thinking of like oh I need to make these numbers I need to make these things.

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I just really felt like it's like I have to keep my career >> because it was the first time like it's like I got I got pregnant and people were saying like it's like oh this never happened before.

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We never had a artist in the label that got pregnant like right right at the beginning of their career.

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So I just was like in a rush to do my deadline um and and and deliver my album. So that was on my mind.

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Now things have changed because people like criticize me a little bit harder more than I feel like any other artist which I I I feel like it's not fair to me but it's like you know what they don't do it to the people they don't think that they're great. >> Yep.

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>> Or they don't whatever.

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And it's like one of the key that I feel confident that it's like I'm I'm going to be okay because it's like no matter what I do, like it's like sometimes I could put this fire ass outfit and I could kill fashion week and it's like people be like, "Cool, but where's the music?"

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>> I could drop a product and people be like, "Okay, but where's the album?"

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I could be in a drama, like some controversial and people be like, "We don't give a We want the album."

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And it's like >> that must feel good in a way because Yeah.

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Yeah, it's a little annoying, but it's like that that is a good indication >> because we miss it. No.

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And I said that to you before we got on camera and on the mic here.

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>> What I've heard I I love.

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And what struck me immediately from the first second you opened your mouth and spoke when I and I knew I was listening to a body of work, not just a standalone song.

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>> I was like, >> there's only one of you.

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Like there's like there's nobody can can show up >> whether it's seven years, 17 years, 27 years, it doesn't matter.

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I was like, it is it is Bronx. It is Cardi. It's the voice. It's the attitude. It's the honesty.

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It's the I didn't realize you were being so hard on yourself because it still sounds effortless to me.

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>> I'd be really hard on myself.

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I I really I really be hard on myself, but I have to be hard on myself because people be hard on me.

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>> So, it's like, >> wouldn't that normally afford you some grace rather than kind of >> No.

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M >> nobody ever for me some grace. Nothing.

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Nobody ever give me no grace.

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Like it's like I'm not allowed to have a a flop.

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I'm not allowed to have a song that is like I want to do because like it's just in my heart to do.

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Like it's like it's almost everything got to be great.

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Everything have to be amazing.

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And it's like >> that's just what it is for me. That's what comes. >> It sounds hard. >> Yeah. >> It sounds hard.

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>> So it's like everything I have to put my mind, thought, foot, ass, titty on it.

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No people you put use their foot like grandma be like I put my feet in it.

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Yeah, I put my whole body in it. Put my soul in it.

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So it's like >> I'm glad that you're here to be able to clear up, you know, for anybody who un unjustifiably thinks they deserve an answer to this question about what you've been doing for seven years.

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No one deserves an answer to that.

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>> But you've been gracious enough to say, "No, I've been in this studio." >> Yeah.

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>> And you know when did it when what was the breakthrough for you?

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What was the moment when you were like, you know what? I think I see something.

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I feel something and it's not how it's felt the last 5 years, 6 years, whatever.

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>> I really feel like I really feel that like the songs that I have on my album is things that are not out there >> right now.

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Like it's like this deserve to be out the out out there right now.

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Like it's like right now it's a lot of trends going on. It's a lot of trends.

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It's a lot of songs without feel in it.

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And uh I just feel like it's like it's done.

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I feel like it's like there's no more. There's no more add-ons.

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Cardi, you need to stop adding on.

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>> That's the hardest thing.

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>> Like it's like I need to add this. I need to add on.

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Like it's like >> maybe track seven maybe I could do a better track seven cuz 1 to six are great and 8 to 12 are cool, but seven might be a problem. Yeah.

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>> Oh, it's the craziness of art. >> Yeah.

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>> That's That's where the insanity lives, isn't it? >> Mhm. Yeah. Insanity.

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That's would be the That that should be the word because it's like this was drive this album was driving me insane.

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And it's like if you know like people shouldn't wonder where I was at because >> I always kind of post what I'm doing, where I'm at.

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If I'm not in New York at home, it's because they probably send me to Atlanta or send me to LA or send me to a state, a random state or send me to Miami.

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And if I'm there more than a month or more than 3 weeks is because they got me in a studio, not because of nothing else.

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The only time I go far away from home for like a week or longer is either fashion week >> or I'm doing press runs.

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Like this week, I'm doing press runs for a song.

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But usually if I'm away and like, "What the she doing in Miami? What's she doing in LA?"

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I'm recording and I'm recording every single day.

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Sometimes you might sometimes I might come up with like three three three bars, three words.

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Like it's like and sometimes I just go crazy.

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>> What was imaginary plays? Quick. >> No, it wasn't quick.

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>> I had to I had to I had to study my lifestyle and write down my lifestyle.

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You know why I love that line in between verse one and verse two where you basically kind of modernize your a John Lennon quote when someone said to John Lennin from the Beatles like how do you write these amazing songs that change the world and he said well you just >> you just take what you feel and you make it rhyme. >> Yeah. Yeah.

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>> You know, take what you think and you make it rhyme.

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And you said the same thing.

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It's easy for me to say this I live this I just got to make it rhyme. >> Yeah.

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Cuz it's like I'm practically rapping about what I'm I'm living.

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And like everything that I'm talking about is like the things that I live or the things like my fly friends like cuz I be I be like I be looking like it's like what she what this wearing, what this talking about, what this this and that.

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And it's like I literally just have to make it rhyme, make it sound good.

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But it's like this is my life.

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And I just took notes of everything that I was doing.

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Like it's like even in the music video, right?

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>> In the music video, I was really having a fitting.

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I just had my hair done and my makeup done.

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And the people that were fitting me are really they're really the fashion houses fitting me for a show.

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All those all those outfits that I wore, I wore them for a show. And it's like a set. >> It's not a set.

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And it's like >> they're really fitting me couture pieces >> while I'm doing a music video. Like this is my life.

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>> This is really my life.

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Like it's like I'm I'm I'm I'm wearing couture, but I'm not wearing it for a music video.

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I'm wearing it because I'm about to wear this to a show this week.

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Like, this is my life for real. >> Yeah.

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And you co-directed that video, which, you know, congratulations.

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I mean, I always think when an artist can step into their visual environment and actually see another step of the creative through, it must be really rewarding.

10:03

Um, and you know, we we're surrounded by these birds and and I saw in fashion week and obviously in the artwork, there's a heavy emphasis on this kind of aven experience, you know, birds and crows and whatnot.

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So, where did that come from?

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Well, it just really reflects on like like just everything, every aspect in my life.

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Like it's like >> cuz it's kind of dark imagery.

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I'm looking over your shoulder and that tree is pretty barren and those birds are pretty frantic and the whole thing feels kind of unnerving, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah.

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And I really like to do my things very colorful.

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Like I'm a very colorful person, but it's just like this past year I feel like something kind of was dying in me.

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like my humbleness, my me trying so much to be unproatic, my me trying to avoid a avoid drama, avoid the disses, avoid the avoid the talks. It's like that is dying. That's dying out in me.

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Like it's like that's really dying in me.

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Like it's like I'm really about to show you that you were not with me.

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Like the cockiness is like being born again.

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And not only that, but it's like my my life, my relationships, everything.

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Like it's like that is dying now, too.

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Like it's like giving chances, giving chances to men, giving chances to women, giving chances to people that is like just just want to see the nice shutty shutty.

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Like it's like, oh, just ignore it. Ignore it. Be the bigger person. That is dying now.

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It's like I'm not know I feel like I gave y'all too much grace to like think that y'all could with me.

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And it's like that is dead, Now I'm now I'mma embrace that.

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You wanted that Now I'mma give it to you.

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And I hope you could take it when I give it to y'all.

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>> That's how I feel for real.

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Like it's like you see that I'm getting kind of angry.

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>> I'm getting angry because it's like it's like >> it's a real emotion though.

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It's a real human energy. >> Yes. Yes.

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Because imagine imagine being in your crib, right?

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You're going through so much so much drama.

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Like it's like you probably got I got you probably got into an argument with your aunt and your cousins and Then your husband doing some Then like in your music career like in the studio like you got you you got like writer's block.

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You have all these problems going on. Then a starts with you.

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And it's like while all this is happening, you got a with me.

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And it's like, "All right, I can't get you.

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I can get to you at that moment, but I'mma get to you now and you're gonna get and I'm you're gonna get it on my time as well.

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>> So the title am I the drama is less like am I the drama?

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It's more like am I the drama?

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>> Like it's like no it just do feel like damn am I the drama?

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Because it's like every single time even when I'm silent like there's been times right there's been times I said I'm going to take a hiatus from the internet.

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I'm not going to be in the internet for a whole month.

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For some reason, I'm getting tried even when I'm not saying nothing, even when I'm not doing nothing.

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And it's just like I be telling people like it's like, "Yo, I really be avoiding shit."

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And it's like, damn, do drama chase me or am I just the drama?

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Like, it's like cuz am I I'm just one of those people that it's just like you're going to always have problems because you're just you and it's like that's what comes with you with your personality.

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>> I'm just one of those people.

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was such a powerful statement.

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Like I think everybody to some degree has a has a has some kind of shadow behind them that they feel they can't shake and they don't know why.

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Something that just seems to be slightly preventing this kind of perfect equilibrium in their life.

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And so I wanted to know like this idea of drama, this idea of like if I'm crouching at the bar, why is everybody standing up straight around me looking at me when I want to hide?

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Has it always felt that way for you even before this entertainment >> Yes.

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Even when I you know what even like when I was in school like sometimes I I just really think I was born with like a a anointed light and sometimes the light is great but it's all it it also disturbs people's peace.

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>> It draws people to you. >> Yeah. It draws people. Yes.

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And it's not it's not always going to be good.

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Like it's like not not everybody's going to draw to that light.

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Like that light might bother people cuz maybe it's too light. It's too bright. It's too loud. Mhm.

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It could also shine on others in ways they don't want to be sh on. >> Yeah. Or or just jealousy.

14:28

But it always been like this to me.

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I always say this, right?

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Like cuz in middle school I always used to get into some I always do I always say like in high school I'm going to go in high school and I'm not going to talk. I'mma be mysterious. >> But either way.

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So >> cuz that's self-preservation, isn't it? In a weird way.

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It's like I need to like hide away but I don't want to look like I'm hiding away. >> Yes.

14:51

But for some reason, I will still get into beef with And it's like, and it will be maybe because my hair was dyed a different way.

15:00

My my clothes were too loud.

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My my stomach was too flat.

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It was always something that like it bothered Even when I'm even when I'm here, right?

15:09

Like it's like even in the industry, there is a lot of different female rappers, but for some reason, it's something about me that like these can't stand. They can't with me.

15:18

They like some are feel I feel like they're in they're on this class right now.

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They sophomores and I'm a senior and it's like you want to with the s you you want to with the senior so bad.

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Like you think you here with the senior.

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You're not even a junior.

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Like it's like and it's like you need to worry about them other sophomores before you start worrying about here the senior.

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But it's just it's something about it that it's like they can't even focus on them.

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They got to focus on me and they always got to focus on throwing me shots and throwing me slings.

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No matter if you're a sophomore or in college, it's me >> and you're sick of it. >> And I'm sick of it.

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And it's just like >> I've been avoiding too many And it's like, man, you. everybody.

16:03

>> I mean, not all my songs are going to be like that.

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>> We're going to hear this on the album. >> Yeah.

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Like not all my songs going to be like that. I have different songs.

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I have like I mean, you heard like pop songs, fun songs, club songs.

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Like >> I have a little bit of everything. >> Bronx Legend. You heard, man. Imaginary players.

16:19

Jay-Z, I love how you flipped it. You made it your own. Only greats can do that.

16:23

How how special for you was it to for for the idea of of of updating Imaginary Players, making it your lifestyle and getting Jay's got to hear it and go, "Yes."

16:34

So, so talk let's talk about that cuz we're still fans at the end of the day.

16:38

>> I just said it on the on the on the radio show that I was doing.

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I was in the studio last year in the summertime. >> Yeah.

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And I was really caught in a funk.

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Like I ain't got my hair done.

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I ain't got my makeup done in weeks.

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I'm sleeping on the couch.

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It was like the fourth, third day that I'm sleeping on the couch in the studio. And I just feel so down.

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Not down, but I just don't feel like my best. >> I'm exhausted.

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I'm pregnant as >> And like I was just going through some drama in my life.

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And I just was like so tired, so over it.

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And then like my engineer was like, "Cheer up."

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engineer was like, "Cheer up." up like cuz it's like come on come on we got to wake up we got to get up and I was like all right like all right then he started playing Imaginary Players and I just start I just started laughing cuz it was

17:24

so random for him to play that and I was like yeah I'm like yo imagine if I flip this but my way cuz it's like >> my life and times >> my life cuz it's like I I got a lot of to brag about like I really do live a different lifestyle than a lot of people. >> Oh and then you're doing the 180 cuz now

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>> Oh and then you're doing the 180 cuz now you're no longer feeling down.

17:40

You're like actually let me take a look around.

17:43

I actually got some to talk about started feeling mad good and then it's like that's when I started working on it but then I was like wait hold on >> what if >> it's not even like what if like it's like I got to I got to like study everything.

17:56

So it's like when I was eating certain places, I would write it down like it's like these are the hot spots.

18:00

We we wrote down every fire restaurant that we was that we that like we was eating with like me and my engineer, we like spend a lot of time in the summertime together cuz I was my plan was to have my album delivered in the beginning of January.

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But my lifestyle changed for me. >> Yeah. >> Like crazy.

18:18

Like in life like it just changed for me and I just needed to be outside.

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So, um I was just writing fly down.

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>> Then when I when it was time to was like to submit to submit it to get approved, I was a little scared. I was a little shaky.

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Like, wait a minute, Jay-Z got to approve it.

18:44

Like, I mean, I always knew that he got to approve it, but it's like, how about if he don't approve it?

18:47

How about if he likes it? And he did like it.

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And it's so crazy like the text message of him approving it. It was at 4:44 p. m. >> Are you kidding me?

18:58

>> So it just it just >> is he is he living like that or is that just some crazy universe spiritual Because if is he really >> I don't really think he's sitting there waiting till 44. Nobody does.

19:14

>> Which which is even crazier because that means he is tapped into something. >> Yeah.

19:20

I mean, we we're I I believe heavy on four in 444 and I believe heavy heavy heavy heavy in 1111. Yeah. Yeah.

19:28

>> Some people think that it's not a real thing.

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>> No, numerology is real. >> Numerology.

19:33

>> Shout out the Fibonacci sequence, man.

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I mean, everything that goes on around us in nature is ultimately a mathematical equation. I mean, it's real.

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>> So, it was just like, all right, this is a good sign.

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And it really changed my mood.

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Damn, I feel like I'm always cranky cuz that day I was cranky.

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When I when I got the text message to get approved, I'm like, "Yeah, >> I was happy."

19:54

>> You definitely sound cranky on this album and in a very good way.

19:56

I mean, you got some to get off your chest for sure.

19:59

But there is also joy on this forthcoming album, which is great, too.

20:02

So So, and I know we only have limited time this time, >> but I'm grateful for any time.

20:08

>> Um, but I want to I want to wrap by asking you how your spirit is now.

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I think it's safe to say without going into detail because that's not how I roll. >> Yeah.

20:15

>> I mean, I want art to win.

20:15

So, I'm like, let's just focus on the spirit.

20:17

So, outside of of what the internet talks about, how are you? >> How am I? H Some days are good.

20:24

Some days are I'm a little sad.

20:28

Some days I'm a little confused. >> Like, right?

20:32

>> You still going through it though?

20:32

Does it feel like you're still processing?

20:34

Like, you talked about life changing.

20:37

>> Are you are you still processing or is this does this Yeah. >> Yes.

20:40

>> Yes. like you know like you know when you graduate high school and now like you're about to you're about to go to college you don't know what you expecting um well not only do like you got to go to college like it's like I had to move out so it's like now you're really like

20:57

in the real world and it's like I'm getting I feel like I'm getting that reset again but it doesn't feel as good because I'm in my 30s and I shouldn't be having a reset at my 30s I should be it should just be almost like planned out >> almost like this is what is coming for the rest of my life. Like it's like

21:16

Like it's like sometimes I feel like I'm in my 20s and I don't really want to feel like I'm in my 20s.

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I want to feel like I'm in my grown 30s cuz I got three kids and it's like I'm not I'm not like um I'm not I I like to be outside.

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I like to have fun, but it's like I like to have my things planned out.

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I'm always a person that thinking about five years from now.

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You know what I'm saying?

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And I like to think about family like that's just the type of person that I just am.

21:44

So experiencing that experience experiencing the straits and stuff like that is just a a little weird and then it's like going through a divorce is very very tough because you marry somebody and the person that you divorcing is not the person that you marry. >> Facts >> at all.

22:05

It's like you you really ask yourself like who the did I marry?

22:10

Like who the that did I marry?

22:10

Like there is no love there. There is no love.

22:15

There is no there is no love but there's but to me I always felt like it's like if I ever walk away from something like I get along with all my exes >> even if we don't talk and we never ended it on some nasty nasty stuff.

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So I never wish them bad.

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Like it's I don't wish them bad or nothing like that.

22:33

Like it's like it has gotten to the point that it's like oh my gosh like it's like >> I feel like I really hate you.

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Like you're I think I hate you.

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>> And I and I never wanted that.

22:43

Like it's like I always be wondering like it's like >> why do women hate their baby daddy so much?

22:50

Why do people say that divorce is so tough?

22:52

I feel like if like if the love is dead, people should just go their separate way. >> Same.

22:56

I've got a couple of friends who have just been through catastrophic like thermonuclear divorces.

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And I don't understand it cuz it feels like yesterday we were all hanging out together. >> Yes. Yes.

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And I'm just the type of person like if something is dead and you know that it's dead and it's never going to go good.

23:09

I just feel like everybody should walk away.

23:11

Walk away with what they came with. Just walk away.

23:13

Things's going to hurt for a couple of months.

23:18

But especially when there's kids, it's like we should be able like to co-parent.

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We should be able to have a conversation. >> 100%.

23:24

>> I should be able we should be able to ask each other advice and just become friends. But it's not like that.

23:28

It's it's actually I'm going through something that is like kind of like very like wow this is very dark. It's not even painful. It's kind of like pain.

23:38

I feel like you will feel pain when like you still got love feelings.

23:43

I don't have I don't have the love feeling.

23:45

I've went through pain last year >> when the love was dying. The love is dead.

23:50

So I don't feel pain but it's just like I don't know.

23:53

like I don't know. know it's like when somebody died like it's like you feel pain and then it's like now you got the bills of the >> of the >> funeral now you got the bills of the funeral and it's like >> costumeum is like yeah yeah yeah

24:09

>> somehow you found the strength to come back with this album we have a release date this means a lot to people >> and I can imagine on September the 20th the day after it comes out I can't even imagine what you're going to feel >> I I I feel everything right now. Like

24:22

Like I'm just very anxious.

24:25

Like it's like every single day like it's like what we doing next? What we doing next?

24:30

I cannot wait to just drop this album because I haven't even been myself for the past 3 weeks.

24:37

Like I have been cursing everybody out, being rude, being angry, and I don't and I feel bad when I curse as well. Yes. >> Yeah.

24:48

>> Question for the crew.

24:50

>> Like I know >> well handled by the way. Beautifully done. Yes.

24:52

Like it's like I I really feel like I've been like really hard on people and everything, but that's just because I I'm really just feeling the pressure.

25:02

Like at first I'm I was like, "Okay, we we going to release this album and everything."

25:06

this when you're really about to release it.

25:08

The pressure is so crazy that I just feel like I I wake up sometimes and it's like >> you think I'm waking up in a frantic because >> Yeah.

25:18

Know your subconscious is like I need to this up.

25:23

>> Can I say something to you as we say goodbye that may help that? >> Yeah.

25:27

>> Because execution is the hardest thing I think in the arts.

25:28

Ideation, creativity, it comes naturally to people who love it. >> Yeah.

25:33

But finishing to your point can be really torturous, right? Really tough.

25:38

>> And uh I got I got to quote the human being who said it because it's a great quote.

25:42

So Damon from from Gorillas, Damon Orban said, "You should definitely finish because then you get to make another one." >> Yeah.

25:50

>> So the beautiful thing is now you finished this one, now we get to get another one. >> Yeah. >> And another one. And another one.

25:57

>> And I'm not going to waste seven years. >> And another one. And another one. And let's get 10 more. Ki B, you're the best. It's great to see you.

26:02

Thank you for talking with me for a minute. >> Thank you.