it's more than just a talent CC it's clear that you know as you go through this life you extend Grace to others respect welcome back to the studio it's great to see you man that's so kind so do you thank you bro what's going on clearly literally everything much just best album of your career today just actually best album of my career to date yeah yeah man stand by it live [Music]
it oh you should it start to finish I if you're a camil Cabo fan and yeah great you showed up better than you've ever showed up before but it's the ones who weren't sure never looked your way cuz we all get to make choices in life we can't love everybody you're going to hit some new people with this music in a big big way it's just really modern and Innovative and interesting but the writing at the core of it which you've
always had is really is really still driving and better than ever before yeah I feel like I really hit my I mean obviously I feel like you always kind of in from the beginning of my career I feel like this is the album that I always Sofer myself and it took me a few tries to get there and keep learning and keep learning and keep finessing and keep learning the techniques and I feel like this was the
album where I'm like oh yeah I knew that I could do this all along and I finally proved it to myself it sounds like you let go of some stuff you know absolutely I think when you come through success and then you expected to maintain a build on that success and then you're like is that my identity this is just an example this is I'm not saying this is about you yeah but you know is that
really my Identity or is it some part of my identity part of someone else's identity and I got to let some of that go and take some risks here totally and that's generally when you make your best stuff and it's funny you say let stuff go because I think even literally in it let stuff go emotionally and symbolically but even practically letting stuff go as in people like letting you know letting go
of the safety net of other co-writers in the room I feel like allowed for there to be more space for me to hear my own voice letting go of other voices letting go of other Cooks in the kitchen you label situation right now for lab situation yeah totally ironically I think it's like when you are younger you feel like you need you're looking for other people to point out the way a
little bit more and that voice inside you you're listening to but you don't totally trust and I think as I've gotten older and older I'm like you know what I'm actually I'm just going to listen to myself I I'm comfortable you know doing the writing by myself on this album I'm comfortable being like you know it's on me today and whether it's it uh fails or succeeds I can trust myself to to do it
cuz the first time we met we spoke about your writing and I think the first compliment I ever gave you was through the lens of someone else who said she's a real writer that's the first thing I think I ever said to you was someone told me you're a real writer not just a great performer and a superstar and you know charism matron all the things people looking for that moves the needle but if she didn't want any of that
attention she's a writer like she'll write for the rest of her life at a high level so and I think as to your point and please this is we don't do interviews dude we we we chat we just chat yeah so totally this is just how I felt at times not all the way through Great Moments and I heard your personality and I heard your writing coming through on a lot of big songs and big moments in albums but it's
interesting you point that I think that's that's a great observation because there were definitely times I felt like I feel like on this album It's You Well I think you nailed it where it's like I think my writing and my um my voice as a writer peaked out in moments of albums um and that potential kind of shown through but I think this is the first time where it's it's not just a moment it's like the whole album
and you know it's like 100% me and I think that I think what happens when you go in and you collaborate with people I think like your voice as a writer does kind of get diluted a little bit point it's the beauty of collaboration totally compromise totally but that's why I think I knew for this album I was like this really needs to be like me waking up in the morning and writing down
lyrics and like searching for things and searching for titles and searching for Concepts and me like saying the trying the cringey idea and trying the the cringey title to get to you know the tasty words that I like like this really needs to be you know all me because then it's going to sound like my personality it's not going to sound like me plus this other person's personality the first time I pissed play on Chanel
number five and it was sent to me way too early shout out to your crew for doing that I'm okay with things getting sent to you too early I trust I know I know and they would have known that they wouldn't have ever betrayed your trust like that but they like you got to hear this and I and I and they play me a they had sent me a few songs I love it was on there yeah Smasher great weird
pop song amazing I love it cardi huge great they played me a couple of songs one of the songs we'll get to a little B later on in this conversation and I and I pressed play on shanan number five which was listening to when you walked in my favorite song I've ever written actually one of one of the one of the two there's another song on I feel like that song and June Gloom are like what the inside of my uh Soul sounds like
like I feel like that is like Peak me a writer it's like I think boat's up there too but I think yeah boat's up there too you know I think you know me because you've known me for such a long time now that you can be like oh this is like this is really her you know so now number five when you like when it when you when you I always talk about like when you're on a when you're on a wave
and you don't when you drop in you're never sure if you're going to catch it write it to shore you just catch that song you ride it flawlessly and it's like the sprit sprit sprit and the whole thing is just so playful and yet emotional I'm like that's CeCe like that's that's who you are you have this playfulness to your to your character but also you you can't help but right through the emotional lens yeah it's
true because I'm a really emotional person but I think I also learned technique-wise what I love what I think constitutes great writing whether it's in a novel or you know I was just talking about this series with my mom that I rewatch as my comfort show like girls on on HBO which I feel like is just like great writing where it's like it's show don't tell writing and it's and I think it took me a
littleit to learn as a writer that if you're a really emotional instead of just saying this devastated me which you know so Taylor is a master at this and all the great writers are masters of this you don't say like I was jealous you say like you know I want to wear her hair on my head or something you know what I mean like you don't say the emotion you you paint it yeah you make
an experience yeah exactly and I think that that's something that I I listened to so much hip-hop uh and rap while I was writing this album and I always have but I think specifically from the writing perspective um of just like less kind of Storytelling like uh beginning of the story middle of the story and then this is the conclusion and more like picture picture wrist wrist Spritz Spritz uh origami shabari omasi blah
blah blah like all these different kind of fast cut like a movie um which I feel like rap does so well it's like you know you're in the car then you're in the club then you're here then you're you know this jacket and this thing and you can it's really just like flashes of images no you're right as opposed to I think the way that I started songwriting which was more I think kind of Nashville
story Telly like songs like first man or never be the same which were a little bit more kind of like it's a different kind of movie and different kind of writing kind of movie so yeah I think Chanel Number Five was me really experimented I was listening to you know a lot of actually a lot of Drake at the time yeah yeah experimenting with just like writing like a song with pop Melodies but with kind of
rap structure well it's interesting you talk about the character that is cxo XO and this idea of being able to which is very common in the Arts to um embellish your identity one project at a time and to find new ways to explore things it doesn't always have to be how I you know oh I wrote this when I was in my pajamas when I woke up in my first cup of coffee and I feel like and I'm going to
write a song no no no you should write a when you WR your most fabulous interesting Innovative self as well and look for ways to present that um but it's just fascinating to me when I listen to this album start to finish that I'm hearing the real you and yet I'm looking at the character on the cover and it feels like you're sort of like in this beautiful balance between who you truly are but somehow this
characters helped you get there I think Chanel Number Five was actually the first song where I think that cxo XO character kind of happened which is you're right it's me kind of zooming into this moment where I do feel my most powerful and it is this it's actually this illusion of of control you know because I think like that's just a moment where I do feel this illusion of um having my completely together I
got it you know and him him her them all of it I can get it all it's mine look how I have my together and you know the rest of the time I feel like the girl in like 20s somethings you know where it's like I don't know what the is is going on but I think that character of cxo XO like I think I've learned as I'm as I'm growing up that it's important to practice being that character because it makes your life
better and practice having that confidence and practice you know like when you're not feeling great dressing like you do and you know and decorating yourself to decorate your life guess what we're born with a with a with a clear canvas right there's some definite nature going on and then there's some nurture going on and over the course of the nurture element of it our identity shifts and becomes
something there's really none of our control we have no control over what we absorb and don't absorb and how it sticks in our brain and sticks in our body and how we end up absorbing it I love the idea of reinvention and and I love the idea of of letting go of old things and and replacing them with invented things yeah and it's it's interesting because I feel like my hair was a really um kind of
interesting metaphor for that because there is something interesting about like when you cuz cuz I've had dark long hair all my life and when you change something about your physicality and it's extreme it is kind of this like physical representation of like impermanence it's like oh I'm not really one I'm a work in progress yeah for sure totally sure you know I'm kind of like I can change anything about you can change
yeah totally how did you feel when you did it when you first looked at yourself in the mirror and you saw and and and your hair color had changed and you realized that did it feel like it had did it feel like a a a fundamental element in terms of your artistic identity had changed as well like this is going to change my music this is going to feel different yeah I mean I think it's like a fundamental part of
just my self like as my personality had changed therefore you know my artistic self were you ready for a change and I mean this with with a pure heart like was was there a part of you that was ready to let the old you go where you tied a little bit of of yourself and the world you built around yourself and the kind of artist you were and and and did you feel like man I I'm really ready for
change like I don't want to be that person with that kind of haircut doing that kind of thing again yeah I think that I kind of follow my instincts every time you've already achieved a lot around this album moving quick I don't know how you're doing it I mean you're everyone there's a lot I I think honestly because I'm so uh like proud of it and I care about it so much it's like the most non-stop
I've like ever been and you know me I'm like sensitive I'm like how you taking care of yourself right now I do like a five minute meditation in the car I can't do meditation I wish I could I'm dying to do it how do you do five minutes in the car what are you like literally like the drive-thru getting in and out burger get a quick meditation it's so it's exactly it's like just shouldn't even count as a meditation I
think it's like the subconscious thing where because I'm in an interview and I feel like I have to be on my body is almost like Rebel a flight yeah my body is like Rebel and like say you need a second because like that's the thing you can't do mhm does that make sense yeah totally and so is your body disappointed now that I gave you all the time in the world and didn't go what the do you
mean you want to take a second this is an interview but that that ironically is like what makes me feel better is that like then my body's like no you can take a second you can do whatever you want yeah we've been doing this a long time you and I we've been doing this so long you're still a very young artist and and you have a lot of life to live but I feel like we've covered a lot of ground
I'm always having little panic attacks in my conversations little panic attacks are adorable little tiny little ones little tiny cute ones cute little adorable can i a p well to me it's like first of all just means we're alive and we're sensitive to it's just who we are we can't I mean you're never going to cure it why would you cure it it's how we're wir all you can I love that about
you and you and all of the people that I meet who I I really appreciate the fact that I don't want to fix something anymore just want to learn to live with it and appreciate it and let it do its thing and actually acknowledge it and be with people who are like love you it is what it is I think it's letting go of baggage and letting go of things that I carried in my early 20s and in my late teenage years of just you
know like self-doubt and a lot of like you know like mental health stuff and anxiety and I think that allowed me to make more space for oh I want to have more fun and I want to be more free and be more authentic and I want to be more curious and I really think that inspires all of my Musical things is whatever I'm going through in my personal life so I really think it because I actually think
that question I was like dang why did I you know want to go in this direction I really think it is just that Natural Instinct of I don't need this anymore of yeah of just curiosity and and I also think my first love um I mean I love I I really do love singing but people ask me all the time like if it's performing or singing or or you know what's my favorite part of this whole thing and writing is to me my greatest love and WR
dude you're like one of the best making music right now I I I think if you like I said if you didn't want to go out there and deal with all of the performative elements of this from this to genuine performance right through to any other things I like this it's just vulnerable it's just vulner yeah it it's just it is vulnerable and I also think like since I was little I've just like I you know I used to cry when
people saying happy birthday to me so I would get like over stimulated yeah you're in the wrong job I know I just get day is people are singing happy birthday to you they just happy birthday to youit everybody's singing Happy Birthday to me all the time but yeah but I I think also like for this album I think I just I I feel like it was just like going to school for music like you
know especially with Pablo and with Jasper like they were just you know they were I was like first of all I was going on the on Apple music's like classic albums and listening to music that I had never heard before you know I'm an immigrant child I didn't grow up listening to a lot of like what did you discover like what kind of things we listen to like Illmatic yeah like never listen to a lot of like classic rap
albums I never listen toally picked the classic I know I never listened to like uh Pink Floyd I never like you know I watched like the whole uh Beatles uh documentary you watched all of it yeah who has the time I do during writing time I'm just kidding it's like hours long it is amazing though well I thank God that I was not a teenager during that time cuz I would have been obsessed
obessive I would have been like showing up obsessed with when you were who was it chasing the cars and chasing down the cars and risking life and death just to see Ringo who were you obsessed with as a kid Harry Styles Harry yeah yeah how was it meting it all for him yeah and then you meet him and then what's what's what's that like I I like probably wrote my my first songs about Harry Styles amazing
this is time is relative you know we talk about this all the time about how like because the the the distance between being a fan and and and following your dreams and becoming an artist now can be very short you can come face to face with someone who inspired you to be an artist who really was your first kind of celebrity crush that's my life three years after it was happening you're literally like damn
that was 18 months ago I know I know well that was my life cuz you know I I also like loved Taylor I was like the biggest Taylor fan and then she you know became my friend a few years after and um you know I mean how do you keep it how do you keep it how do you keep it together in those moments right because I imagine if there's ever going to be a feeling of impostor syndrome
it's when you meet the people that you were you were obsessing over very recently in a situation where they're looking to you as a from a peer level so that's hard to absorb yeah totally I mean I feel like I did have imposter syndrome for a very long time and I and I do sometimes but I think like the more that you get to know people and get to know them on a human level you're like oh they have the same yeah yeah I
also wanted to say I think it also surrounding yourself with people that are at that level like Taylor or Drake or you know it's like it really just elevates you even on a subconscious level like just you know watching them do what they do or or you know talk about things you just kind of there's something about their energy and their confidence um and their wisdom from just like doing it so long that I think just
kind of like pulls your game up and also I think when you make friends with people like that you're like oh they're like kind of watching my so I better like it's exactly what it is it's a it's a perfect balance between them wanting you to know that you're all the same and also are you going to meet us over here yeah totally but I think that's why peers are so important that was really important for me for this
album too is like really connecting with people and you know the artist community and just like you know I feel like it's like it's an industry where I mean I feel like you have a lot of friends um but it's easy to like for to be one of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me I have a few friends you got a few friends all right I got a solid bag right you got a little yeah I got some
friends um you got some real good really great friends showing up on this record yeah my friends came through for me for sure D did they I mean by the way I love that story that story everyone was obsessed with that DM Playboy cardi story you know why CU people don't just play DM play boy kti when you told me that yeah I know you do but it obviously works for you everyone else is like why
did I get to DM play boyy card it's like cuz you're not CeCe thank you L ax I collaborated theour I texted him he just texted him but I texted him and I was like I I have this song called he knows and I'm just imagining us uh doing a music video where we're both fighting over the same guy I think it would be iconic yeah and then he was like oh my God let me hear it I sent it to him and I think he was busy because he didn't
respond um and then how do you take that when he doesn't respond do you go into a do place of like man he hates it or just like give him space no I just I'm I just plot and scheme and I'm like no not at all I usually try two or three more times before I'm like this is GNA sacrifice the friendship I gotta this is going to sacrifice the Friendship it's a fine line yeah it is a fine line but I I
think I text people after and then I'm like Hey song yeah you got to be persistent cuz people are busy yeah you know and sometimes they don't they don't know what's good for them sometimes they don't I'm like I know what's good for you do this song do the roar do it do it for me yes but primarily do it for you but do it for you also do it for you and he did and he crushed it and it's one of
my favorites and I understand why there's going to be a focus on that it's still I mean I feel like I feel like a crazy person I keep banging on about Chanel I know I just feel like a crazy person I'm like where's the video where's the vibe where's the thing on Chanel and everyone's like no but there's so many hits on this album and you are spoiled with with the with songs you could choose to represent this let's
let's actually talk about it okay because I do really feel like every there's like no fillers on there's no filler on this record you could literally CL your pick one I I worked so hard on on this album do you to know why myself crazy on this album so do you want so this is your this this is your crazy coming out party so do do do you want to know why I get obsessed about Chanel is because I think and I
could be wrong I feel like it's the purest representation of this album when I hear it it's the it's the one that just appeared and showed different to any of the other let me just like take your sentence and just you know give it a little step stool cuz this is how I explain Chanel Number Five it is the thesis statement for the album boom it is the centerpiece of the table at the dinner
party yeah that is the album yeah I feel like I love it's almost an intro I'm sorry I just do I feel like it but it is but it is and that's why it came first because it is the intro because Chanel number five I think that people wouldn't have under if I put Chanel Number Five first it's almost like too good for people to understand right away honestly like I I think people would be like I don't get this
coming from Camila not yet anyway and I just would be like I would just be frustrated if if people didn't understand it and I think I love it was like just digestible but weird enough for people to understand at first but I think channel number five is the first song where especially from a songwriter perspective I was like oh this is literally the voice of cxo XO it's like it's it's exactly it it's playful she's
in control she's like you know putting on her lip gloss she's like toying with this guy she's like magical she's sensitive I was banging on about before the show today wasn't I but before you went to air I came in I had 10 minutes before you were on air and knew you were coming in and I said there was like seven of us in the room I was like you got to hear this you guys don't even know you got to hear this and
I played Chanel again let's talk about other ones too don't worry about don't worry about I'm obsessed I mean I'm mildly obs obsessed but but but to lead into the other ones but what I said about it was and then we can move on was I was like this is the perfect example today as it rests today of who to me CAM actually is which is just like outsider on the inside that's exactly thank you because
you understand me Zan L I try I mean you're hard but I do my best once every year or two I get shot at it I'm having a good go figure out okay well let me ask you a question it's like Mom's Happy by the way she's having a great time over there your mom I think I think your mom your mom likes me there you go wow she's bopping around over there cuz sometimes I'm like and I'm going to ask
you this like as a friend I don't know what the discomfort I feel when people are like oh like she's like the a pop girl that's like do you even feel like I'm like a pop girl thank you I think you're modern pop girl I think I think you I have a different take on pop right there's pop pop where it's like I just want to be pop and that's fine that exists and we have great love then I have the pop which I'm more drawn to
which is the pop that absorbs like a tasteful Magpie all these amazing little elements and puts it together and makes something new and that's why pop music is this Everlasting non-stop infinite Innovative experience cuz it's so un it's so brazenly like scissor is is pop yeah cuz she's like I'm a bit of folk I'm a bit of this I'm a little bit of that I'm a bit of this and I make it on me and I think that's
what you do that's what I want people to see me as so that's why it means a lot to me when you say you're an outsider on the to me it's the safe it's the it's the best place to be and that's what I feel like I have learned through my career that I realize how when you know with songs like Havana never be the same I feel like those are the songs that felt like really right for me
because I was like this is pop but it's like done in like kind of like a weird like rubbing against way and this makes me feel like I'm an an outsider on the end and and the truth is is like I feel like it's like it's always risky with those songs because it's either like they really work or really don't work yeah but really don't work what what do really work and what's really don't work here's the
thing about music right I mean that I don't care like to me the really don't Works work eventually they just take their time they find an audience someone picks up and goes wow this really works for me well well I think for some people like on on the outside really works means instant you know domination like verality so are you done with that a bit now are you I'm know I'm I don't cuz I feel like I've I've even
had the really works where I feel like it wasn't creatively fulfilling for me well I mean I honestly I didn't mind that because I was like this is just such a banger yeah but there has been songs where I feel like for example they really worked and I and I and I I tried it but it didn't feel like experimental enough or or weird enough for me and that doesn't feel creatively fulfilling for me like I would rather
play and and have it feel like I um did something different than do something that I you know what I mean yeah I do do you think that um this friendship you've developed that's turned into a creative relationship with Drake is surprising to people that's a great question um I don't know is it not when you hear the music but I think when people because because Drake doesn't Drake doesn't show
up for lot of people like I mean you said Dr doesn't he does people think that he does but he actually doesn't he doubles on other people's art he'll be like I might remix this jump on that I like it and he's very helpful in terms of giving songs a lot more sort of push especially with the OVO Sound Radio Days when he would be like that's a smash let me see if I can make that even bigger right yeah I feel like he's definitely
like an authentic music lover like he puts he puts people on there's no doubt about that but this is different he shows up on two songs back to back and one of them is just his I don't there is another album where Drake a solo Drake song Just exists on someone else's album well he initially well okay two things I feel like he based on his catalog I mean tell me if if you agree but I feel like at
least from what I know of myself feel like we're kind we're musical uh musically aligned in in a lot of ways I think we have a lot of the same taste and lyrically as well and I and I actually I slid into his DMS too and I was like I've been listening to you so much for this album like a lot of like the word play and like my aspiration for bars did you know him already when you did that was it kind of
did it feel Cold that DM or did it feel like oh no no i' met him uh once before uh at a party like during Havana times right right right and then I think I like plus you got he's got to follow you to slide I mean everyone does but the other thing you got to no no he did he had he he followed me because I think I I think I like posted a picture like with like song lyrics like right right I
know well let me let me let me explain that so I dm'd him and then I played him my album and he with it and then I think it was like a week he with Chanel yes he with Chanel with Chanel he with Chanel he with um June Gloom and he with 20-some yeah yeah um and he sent he uh sent the idea for hot Uptown and I wrote uh my parts I sent it back to him and we kind of chopped it so it felt kind of like a
duet and then when he reworked on his on like kind of his uh Parts again he gave me an an outro which was the ugly part but I was like you don't want to so that's a twofer it doesn't matter which way you spin it you can say it was an outro for for hot Uptown that's a twofer it's a twofer because it was like he didn't really need to give me an an an outro right but I was like you don't
want to for me it's like I don't want to hear a song like hot up toown and then have it like go into like this like one minute like you know thing where he's like talking his so we decided to just like make it another song we just decided to like basically put a whole other Drake song on my record cuz you know what I was like is this cool that's awesome I love it because because the whole thing uh there was
this premise of the album that we started with where basically because it was kind of this very collaborative Vibe there's pink XOXO where pink pantheris kind of wrote her letter to people Koshi writes his letter and then Drake writes his letter but we didn't want to call it Drake XOXO because it's like that would be problematic potentially as well so we decided to call itug and he goes the off yeah yeah
he starts talking about pulling out credit card receipts and all kind of gly yeah I mean that's like py Drake man petulant Drake chip on shoulder Drake man yep it's one of my favorites yeah me too um to and hot up Town's a serious Jam I know right I love it can I just play a little bit of that yeah play it play play a little bit of that all right hang [Music] on all right all right all right all
right okay so he um like had sent me the song and then I think I remember like I literally booked the studio that same day and sent him back like my verse like my part literally straight away 3 hours later show off you're such a showof that is a flex that's a huge Flex right I was like I don't think you're worthy of A Love Like Mine I love that it's such a it's just like oh I know that you sent this over
to me you're like I'll get back to oh she got back to me I was like honey let me Flex my pen for a second that's amazing so now you list and it's fast too it's Up Tempo it's got serious Tempo he is so great at I feel like a Tempo that feels effortless pretty everything for real he's one of those human beings I think when you know him um and I don't know him but I've met him a few times and
enough to know that he's got good heart you know like I you can just you know what it's like it's what movie is is it from is it Scarface where it's like it's in the eyes Chico like he's got a good yeah yeah no you're right I know that sounds like a joke but but it is in the eyes I feel like you can tell when a person is it's kind do you know my other favorite scene is scotf face where are you from Baltimore
Baltimore where is Baltimore that line when they're dancing on the dance floor can't super remember that I'm not going to lie that's iconic scene whatever this really good acting feel like that could be a good what are you watching right now apart from girls um I just finished Breaking Bad I'd never seen it isn't it amazing it's really isn't it great to have a show that doesn't let you down at
the end after that amount of time the season closer was just so incredible the season closer was really good but it was I I needed to a light watch after that cuz I was like I'm emotionally do you know what's really good hack is really good I just started that hack is good stick with it okay I'll stick with it it's really cute and it's quite deep and and everyone made out like it was going
to be a Aristo development it is not W to wall humor like ARIS development but it's it's cute it's good and can I just say one more thing please I feel like I'm like I'm Chanel Number Five girl and then I feel like my little mini panic attack is like my 20 it's like I'm 20s something but you're not still hung up on that right no yes no don't be no don't be because because do you know how
many okay you can come out and be shaan number five all day and a lot of people are going to get great energy out of that and appreciate the fact that you wrote that and perform that and it's you and it's a banger but you're actually weirdly whether you mean to or not you probably shouldn't mean to just should be an instinctive thing helping more people by being honest about you flipping me off intentionally by the way
you know you like that like is that is that CC sign is that cxo XO coming through no you're like sorry what were you saying about that um you you helping more people by being honest you're right than not and can I ask you another thing we can talk all day what's your other favorite song I love day County dreaming oh that's a bang just goes and doesn't stop I love how the second half of it or the I don't
know what the percentage of it is but the the latter part of it is is so emotive that's one of the things I love about this album is how you it's it it it has super interesting contrasts between going up and coming home and you know what I mean after the club and so it's like in that whole one song I feel like you know that the piano moot Motif at the end and the way you Rite that even though seem it's the same song I
just love it yeah I feel like we really tried to intentionally make it an album of contrast I feel like there's so many parallels where sonically it's like you know if it was um a piano then there's like you know like a really like hard rap flow over it and if there's like a really hard beat then I'm like doing this super like gentle falsetto like there's constantly this these kind of
rubs cuz I feel like this is an album also where emotionally I'm exploring a lot of rubs you know what I mean like in songs like 20 something things where it's like dang like I'm with you but like I feel shitty like you know what I mean like just kind of complex like rubbing against each other what was the hottest part of yourself to acknowledge on this record to write about on this record any songs where I felt really
really vulnerable like 20 somethings or June Gloom you know I had to like kick Pablo and Jasper out of the room to like write those songs because you know I'm like really talking my my on those yeah and I feel like I can't because because well because the way that I that I right is I like free like kind of freestyle I feel like I my body can't like sometimes totally relax and go there and talk about things
complet it's like a it's really like a therapy session but when you but when you subconsciously open a song talking about it says June Gloom tool fog okay that's you've immediately laid out the the the the like the outline of the painting on the canvas first thing you say is the song title so you know where you're going subconsciously it's a obviously a situation whether it's entirely specific it's inspired by a
real situation because well that that situation happened the night before the song C Beach you walk yeah the whole meet me and mon talk situation like wow yeah but like the chorus of that line I could not have written with other people in the room you know what I mean I would just like be too self-conscious yeah it's a super honest record I don't need to go through the lyrics my line by line on that but
people should when they get a chance and they hear the album listen to that one with an open mind and understand the courage it takes to write that song cuz also it's it's not just about um it's one thing to to to write through the perspective of pain it's the other thing to also uh take some accountability and be self-aware enough to put to put yourself in the situation as well 100%
that's a big big growth moment for any writer totally and I feel like that's I I really like shows that speaking of girls or speaking of um you know like that show like I the last show I loved um that I watched I love baby reindeer I too anxiety ining for me the idea of a stalker and it's just no I feel you it's a lot but I love like exploring the gray area too the gray areas of like morality
and like I'm like you know I'm I'm doing the wrong thing and I know I'm doing the wrong thing and I'm aware of it exactly exactly and I know that I'm kind of like indulging in something bad in in this moment or I don't know I think as a writer it's important to remove in that sense remove your ego because you're just exploring Humanity you're exploring exploring the that those parts in in all of us I
feel like that's what makes interesting writing like if you want to be just like the uncomplicated like hero all the time then it's not really very interesting okay CC we got to a point now where we're in the last we're in the last phase of this conversation this time around and I feel like this is a the roads have led us here and I'm not going to shy away from the question I
think you're going to be okay with this so if you're writing from that perspective and you're willing to acknowledge that life is not black and white and that there are great areas every human being is fully capable of consciously or subconsciously of finding themselves in areas where whether you acknowledge it or not you're up or you're doing wrong or or you might be being done wrong but you're also doing
wrong all that sort of and you've been through a lot and you've been through a lot of stuff in your life where for all the success and all the Triumph you've had challenges what is your general feeling toward judgment now how do you process judgment do you care do you have a thicker skin are you able to move forward in your life and judge yourself more than others will judge you what was the last part of the question
do you feel more comfortable moving through life with self with self-awareness and self-judgment and less concerned about how the world sees you now you're now you're 27 and you're moving forward yeah I think it's a it's a process I don't feel like I I was just talking about this yesterday um with my friends like I think you know in another 10 years I'll probably be like wow when I was 27 I
used to let get to me way more than I let get to me now yeah um by the way you will huh you will at7 yeah and you will say it at 47 again and you will keep saying it exactly um I definitely still struggle um you know if I see uh criticism online um it'll still get to me and I have to process it whether it's with friends or with my mom or uh by myself but I feel like kind of growing
up in the public eye and dealing with those things has also led me to other great tools like whether it's like you know Buddhist philosophy or not to sound like no you I think people should be entitled to explore all kinds of mantr you know I just read I was reading in this book yesterday there's like a it's this book that talks about like it's like holding your seat through the eight worldly
winds and the eight worldly winds are like you know Pleasure and Pain praise and criticism I don't know like all these kind of opposites and these winds kind of constantly blow and and I was reading through the praise and criticism hold your through them yeah brilant like hold your seat cuz we kind of lose our yeah I think I'm getting better at I think depersonalizing criticism and I think
before I I would just take it too personally um and now I'm kind of like okay who is saying this to me like if it's not somebody who personally knows me and who I personally know then I don't really I don't have to take it to heart so much I also heard from somebody which I I love this advice I think it was Michael D who said you should care about what other people think but you shouldn't worry about what
other people think that's a great that's a different that's a great distinction and I I think that's really helped me because I think it's like I'm never going to get to a point where I don't care about what other people think that would you know that's like sociopathic Behavior like if I feel like I'm you know hurting somebody's feelings or offending people like of course that hurts me and I and I care about that but
I think it's like the worry where I start to like beat the out of myself for it or or BL one you can one you can actually translate and and action and action and work on which is to care the worry gets you nowhere exactly and one one I think has made me a more empathetic person a more thoughtful person and a a person that is like a a better listener um but I think for sure criticism I'm like a person
that if I'm being totally honest I have friends who you know with criticism they're like you like you don't know me and I think because I was so young with criticism I like I shrink and I'm like are they right and I've had to work on being like you you know what I mean yeah so you've had to give your nurturing voice more power and allow your critical voice to act when it needs to act and not in
default totally totally so Same by the way you too are are you like that too oh my critical voice is always ready my critical voice is just jacked ready to like beat the out of it's just doing constant pull-ups and press UPS it's like Linny crevice it's just my critical voices doing pull-ups on the side of the road just cuz like it's ready to go like at all times which is ironically why I needed cxo XO yeah
cuz that's that's your nurturing voice that's like it honey life is short go put on a cute outfit and enjoy your life I already call foul on one observation on this record no one's pretty when they cry everyone cries ugly come on man maybe with the exception of like Ryan goling and Rachel McAdams they were when they cried and I imagine probably Beyonce is pretty when she cries it depends on what kind of cry
I'm an ugly cry if I'm really like balling sometimes I look at myself in the mirror when I'm crying I'm like God and I start laughing cuz I'm like God damn that's not a good look I'm not a good-looking crier when I'm really crying I'm like it's a it's a it's a body thing like I'm like and that's not pretty but if it's like a like a movie cry or something then like a single tear
lip yeah like exactly like my my lips get like extra has time to cry like that huh who has time to cry like that do you really in a situation where you're feeling that kind of emotion Cece and then you just like let me just let me just do a little Amo Bo cry before I actually sit down and give him the main course let me just give you a little a a performative cry for yourself and a and a selfie camera is very C
[Laughter] XOXO performative crying it's a whole new thing I might try it when I get home tonight I might just see if I can stare in the mirror and performative cry yeah exactly exactly or just like bite your lips or something that's sexy crying that's not the same you kind be like yeah that's what I mean no bite your lip to make your lips red what it's like bite your lip and make it bleed or this is getting
into like some you know what we'll do it a little tutorial you'll see it it's very cxo C cxo XO I like boat too I love boat that's a very mean song that was like one of the fastest songs to write too yeah because I feel like that's your comfort zone pushed into into uncomfortable territory don't read me like that Zan Lo Jesus Lord Jesus I can do that but should I do it that there or should I do it over
here my God yeah man it's exactly true that is my that's a that's that's Comfort my my the easiest songs for me to write are emo MMOs the queen of ladies and gentlemen the queen of emo mid tempos with 808s and for the dance floor for real I'm really happy for you I'm grateful I'm happy for all of us I mean I don't know if there was any alternate future for you a few years back I wouldn't have
been surprised though if you decided to write a book or go into acting or direct something or do something else because I know you're a very curious human and you're a student of life I know you like to learn so I wouldn't have been surprised if you thought you know what um and your mom gave me permission to swear um this music game it's kind of I'll come back to it when I've got a little more layers of skin
and I've learned a little bit more and I think that's probably what you have have done I think that is yeah that's kind of what I did yeah because it you're right I mean I think unless little ways yeah and I think unless you make those changes right it just stays being and and you just kind of have to keep showing up for a job totally totally and I think especially when you start out young it's so easy to
like stay the same age that you became famous do you know what I mean I really have have to like dig out uncomfortable situations like you know the movie or new friend groups or whatever so I can keep growing cuz I have to find my own version of college are you good at saying goodbye though am am I good at saying goodbye to like different experiences people you don't want in your life anymore we started the
conversation you said you let go of a lot of things and it takes me a second it takes me a second because I feel like I I really always I want to see the best in people and I always give things and everything the benefit of the doubt and like multiple chances um but I think I I'm realizing the gift of self-compassion and I think and I'm not trying to sound like you know Mother Teresa or whatever but no
disclaimers just straight up yeah but but straight up I I think that I I gave a lot of like I think like a lot of the times prioritized and and gave kindness to sometimes like other people like before me and now I'm like well if this person is making me feel bad making me feel anxious or whatever I got to take care of me first and I love this quote that's like I think it's like a Buddhist quote
that or I think it's this quote by this Buddhist teacher Sharon salsburg who's like you as much as anybody else in the universe are worthy of love and compassion and I think like a lot of the times like I practice giving that to other people and it's like no but include yourself in in that equation and yeah I I'm I try to be more mindful of how things feel in my body if things are making me feel bad or
small or like not good situations or people if they're not making me feel Joy if they're not making me feel safe have enough self-awareness to recognize the pain yeah in the moment change in the moment CU otherwise you can you can be back here four years later and you've been living with that pain 100% 100% and being of course like super kind to everybody but it's like include yourself
in that equation like if you're not feeling safe if this person is or this situation is not making you feel good have enough self-compassion to be like even when it comes to for example like even like when it comes to guys and stuff like that like just being like you know if this person texting this person or whatever is not making you feel good listen to those cues in your body and have enough self-compassion to be
like I'm going to take care of myself like I would take care of my sister yeah you know you take care of each other and I'm always really encouraged whenever I see you especially around here um and you're with your mom and I know you've got a great relationship with her and I know it's really important um that you get to share this experience and there's a great like any sort of family scenario
or great friendship in life there's a great support network there but how much fun as we're coming to the end of this how much fun is it to know you can look back on your life in 50 or 100 years and know that you shared a lot of this experience with with your family and because a lot of times artists go and follow their dreams and Ambitions and they leave people behind oh hell no that's my worst fear and you
know and and honestly I was talking to my mom about this a few days ago because I've been like like I was telling you like going so hard with like you know just like working non-stop and um I haven't been home like for for a second and um I'm always I try to have that alarm Bell in my head of like oh I haven't seen my my dad or my sister and my dogs like I don't mean my dogs like my friends like my real dogs and also my
friends but you know my dogs and my do dogs yeah um dogs and dogs my dogs and my dog my dogs um and I was like you know I always want to be mindful of like oh I want us to like spend more time together or have them come over here or whatever because I just like that's my worst fear is like cuz I've heard stories of of of people that are like I don't remember that whole year you know
people being like that was like my most successful year and I don't remember because I was like working so hard and I didn't share it with people so but I think I'm really lucky too that I feel like my my team and like you know my my choreographers and like the people that I dance with and you know they really feel like friends and they it feels like a family so it it does feel like we
really like share in whatever the successes I never feel like it's like you're happy I love my dogs your dogs or your dogs all my my da awgs but in that moment when I said that sentence I truly love dogs missed the out of my like animal dogs how many dogs have I have four but I really have like two hang on what's up with the other two how can you have four but really two like what's wrong with the other two these are my
two like the big ones yeah that's adorable what about the other two they're small and they're more like my parents dogs and by the way dogs are actually you have you have two real dogs and two default default dogs yeah two default dogs you kind of have default dogs I do I just feel more connected rock you can't love your dogs and then have a hierarchy of which dogs you love more than the other dogs I have such a
hierarchy it's crazy like I could kind of ignore the other two honestly you know what it's going to make me cry and I just want to say one last thing just one last thing okay well make I'm trying here I can't get there will it help you know what'll help just get out of your your s your sad crying thing just say look into the camera and say I'm a dog woof woof I'm not going to do that [Music]