0:00
Cameron Crow, it's great to finally meet you, man. >> Amazing. Great to be here. >> Yeah, dude.
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0:03
I feel like we've I don't know for me, and this is really bold of me to say, but I feel like we share quite a lot of simil similarities in terms of how we feel about music, how we've approached it in our lives, and I've been excited to meet you for a long time. So, nice one. >> Likewise.
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Will you wave the flag for all that we hold dear, a song that can take you to a certain place, and you know it, >> leave that feeling and linger in it, live in it. It's the best.
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>> Because that song has energy.
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I just figured this out quite recently.
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I think I've always known it, but I never put it into words.
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translated from my brain towards the idea that music has the same amount of energy as a plant does.
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It's growing and it's constantly finding its purpose. >> Absolutely.
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And and it's uh it's all around you if you just open yourself up to it. >> Yeah. >> Nature is music.
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It's just the stuff that affects you and finds your heart.
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>> Do you still have that moment where you're in an airport, you know, like a waiting room or you're walking through a terminal or you're in a car, someone's playing something and you're like, got a Shazan there.
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I got to figure out what that is.
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You just always attuned to it. >> Absolutely.
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What's wild to me is the music that happened 30, 40, 50 years ago is still kind of present.
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>> Whereas when I first started writing and doing some of the stuff that that that's described in the book >> 40 50 years earlier was like Al Jolson and like vaudeville and stuff and and it was a long ago that that happened it seemed.
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>> But it's the power of songs.
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I think it's the power of of somebody that put words to music and created a feeling and it's like you you don't want to leave it and uh more than ever I think it's essential and you and this is the the world that you celebrate. >> Are we lucky? >> So lucky. >> Yeah.
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Very fortunate to be able to make music an essential part of our life story.
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Um >> how you find in this whole this whole song and dance.
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You know it's it's it's different, right?
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Putting a book out, >> you know, it's one thing to write it.
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That's a whole experience and we'll talk a bit about that as well about just what it takes to write about your life, what you learn from that, but then you get to come and hang out with people like me and we get to ask you to sort of like dissect it even deeper and talk about the experience even deeper.
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So, how is this feel kind of I suppose quote unquote promoting your life?
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>> Well, I I love being the interviewer.
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Like that is one of my favorite things to do is to like sit down with somebody who's inspired you and ask that certain question that makes them go, you know what, let me tell you something.
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And it's all of a sudden you're speaking about just like essential personal stuff, which >> moment when they go, I'm going to be very honest with you right now.
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I was like, we just had someone in the room just say that and I'm like, okay, here we go. >> Here we go. >> Yeah. >> That I love.
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But the the fact is that the book is it's about a time that imprinted.
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so heavily on me like being a a young person who was able to like walk through a door that's opened in the in this dressing room is Led Zeppelin and and there wasn't a million places where everybody was a market and everybody was writing or posting and stuff.
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It was really like Rolling Stone, Cream Magazine, a few other places.
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So you were the outlet for them to put their feelings out there.
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And if you were somebody uh like I was a music fan and am and you asked the right question that showed that you listened to their stuff, they opened the the world up to you.
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And that was an amazing experience.
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And the book is a lot about that.
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And you know, you find your voice in the world chasing the thing that inspires you.
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And to me it was music and people because I was kind of like a guy in a room alone a lot before that. Yeah.
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And this meant you could join little communities and spend a couple weeks with Bowie, you know, or longer.
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>> No, there is a a sense of of longing and running and trying to get away from your situation.
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I think that kind of is a thread through anything any kind of journey in the arts or anyone who wants to be involved in the arts.
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This idea of like where's the adventure?
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Where do I how do I distract myself away from this other How do I immerse myself in my own imagination?
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And music obviously unlocks all of that.
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and then making it just one big immersive experience for myself. And where does it begin?
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What's the original motivation for you to want to run into the arms of music and into the life stories of those people that make it?
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>> It's a it's a great question. We lived in the desert.
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We lived in a town called India outside of Palm Springs.
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>> I think most of the music world is familiar with that town now. >> Yes, it's true.
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>> I don't think that's a secret anymore.
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At the time it was like we're going to be known for dates, >> right?
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>> We grow dates >> forever.
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This is what you know it's it's dates and you know turtles dates over two weekends. Well attended. >> Exactly.
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The date festival was the place like they they had some like pinball machines and stuff.
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If the man from the future had come up to me and said everybody important in culture will be there at the date festival grounds. It' be like get out. >> Stick around Cameron. Your time will come. You'll be the king.
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You'll be the king of this town one day.
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They will all want to know where to get coffee and you'll be like, "I've been waiting for this moment."
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>> See that shack Bob Dylan will be standing there. >> Yeah. Exactly.
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>> Um but yeah, and so so you you know my my mom we we I wrote about her in Almost Famous and that movie is a little bit about how music rock was banned in our house.
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So late at night, you know, you get a transistor radio and you put it under your pillow and you listen to whatever radio station you could get and the waves would come across the desert and you'd hear like Buffalo Springfield.
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You'd hear like uh the Moody Blues and it just all felt mystical and magical and like a a finger that was beckoning you to like follow that feeling. And I did.
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That's this is where this this is where I got to put out the the boomer exclamations right here.
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I I got to I got to I got to make sure everybody understands going forward that there's going to be a little bit of like don't you miss going on in this conversation.
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Now, it's not because I'm not present and don't love today. All of this is great. >> Yeah.
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>> But there is a moment in time um where it wasn't available. >> Yeah.
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>> And you had to wait for it. >> It's true.
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>> And you had to really have your ears open at all times wondering, is the next song going to be the song that changes my life? >> Absolutely.
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And I can remember at least off the top of my head right now half a dozen moments.
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One at my grandparents house, one at my parents house.
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Moments where a DJ on the radio played something and I was like, >> "What the was that?" >> Yeah.
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>> Oh, that's called Smells Like Teen Spirit. >> Yeah.
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>> Oh, well, the world just changed.
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>> And the world did change.
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>> These songs are diaries, too, because there's there's kind of an imprint moment that happens like when you hear the right song at the right time, it it it kind of like galvanizes the way you felt.
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And I love the idea of going back like you say smells like teen spirit.
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>> I can remember the exact moments and where I was what I was wearing and it was like >> same.
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>> Okay, that's different.
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That's going to be around.
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That's going to change me.
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>> And like letting letting the winds of the music that you love kind of send you in different directions is one of the great, you know, ways to live a life.
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I think it's kind of how it worked out for me. >> Yeah.
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Well, I mean with great courage and risk takingaking.
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I mean, you know, you look back on it now and you think, "Okay, 15-year-old gets to go and live out his dreams and travel the world and hang out with rock stars and write stories about it and like, wow, who wouldn't want to do that?" Okay, cool. Of course.
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But a lot of fear wrapped up in that as well.
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A lot of uncertainty, a lot of pressure, a lot of unknowns.
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You're not emotionally mature enough to know what Jimmy Page is saying when he's saying it.
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He's saying 10 things at the same time.
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>> He's saying, "I like you."
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He's also saying, "I probably won't give you what you want, but I might, but I probably won't. But I might. but I probably won't.
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And you're like, what the is this guy saying? >> True.
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But the things that the things that somebody like Jimmy Page allows you to see if you're somebody who they've let into their little world is amazing.
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You know, today there's a dressing room.
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You know, there's like 50 dressing rooms backstage for a band that's like pretty big. Yeah.
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>> At the time >> there's one dressing room >> cuz Led Zeppelin were building the modern business.
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>> Four guys in one room. Yes.
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You know, there was no business until Led Zeppelin. Really? >> Yeah. Exactly.
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So, they're there in one room together.
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Childhood basically childhood pals.
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>> Stale cheese, you know, wilted lettuce.
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>> I love the way you described as well how like how like everyone's doing their thing, but Planty is just like grooving doing Planty I love how Planty is always grooving. >> Grooving.
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And again, one room, you know, and there's this bottle of Jack Daniels and Paige grabs it and tips it back and it's like iconic photo. Yeah.
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>> Um, but to to have been in the room when that photo was taken is to know just a club, a very private club between people that spent all their time time together. >> All right.
8:46
Question for you, Led Zeppelin question for you. Okay.
8:47
Well, we're focused on this because you've seen it all.
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You've seen the people unveil themselves without realizing some of it. Yeah.
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The Greg the Greg Orman, you know, conversation. Very, very impactful.
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that moment in your life and realizing that he was in the moment and probably unaware of the gravitas that you felt and Neil felt at that time.
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>> Yeah, >> Jimmy Paige swinging from the Jack Daniels bottle.
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Hard not to think he knows what he's doing. >> Good point. Yeah, he would.
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Some of these people really well many of them know how to stage themselves, >> right, >> for impact, >> right?
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>> You don't just walk into a room and David Bow's there going, "Hey, what's up?" >> Yeah.
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He's positioned in a certain way under a red light with his yellowish hair and a blue hat and you just kind of go, "Okay, that's David Bowie." You know? >> Yeah.
9:33
Um there's there's a certain kind of u theatricality particularly with him where he was in some ways the installation that is David Bowie and then in other ways you know he'll give you a ride home because you don't have a driver's license and so he'll give you a ride home in a yellow VW and you're on Labraa you know in Los Angeles and it's 7 a. m.
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And you know, school children are on their way to school in the other cars.
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Nobody knows it's Bowie and he's going, "Look at this.
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All of this will be forgotten. Remember that."
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And I just felt, you know, this that he would say things like that that just felt like a glimpse of the future.
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And usually they were the music he would talk about, you know, craft work and things like that.
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But when he said that to me, all of this will be forgotten.
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It's the one thing I think he got wrong because he's not forgotten.
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>> And that music he made on that very day. >> Not forgotten.
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Indelible and important for time and place and all of us.
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But um quite a visionary to uh to have some time with for sure.
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>> You know, Greg Alman was right to some degree. You were a knock.
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you were sort of 15 to 18 years old being hustled into these rooms and your innocence, whether you realized it or not, your naivity was probably, you know, a part of what what opened the door to all of this.
11:01
Getting a lift with Bowie, he's not offering some 25-year-old hipster kid with a recorder a lift back home.
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He's offering a 15-year-old cuz he needs a ride home. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't know.
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Did you know at the time, were you present enough at the time to know that to some degree the age and the way you were going about doing this was what was getting you these kind of amazing experiences and allowing people to sort of drop their guard a bit? >> Great question. Here's what I knew.
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I knew that I had a chance to put somebody in the seat next to me and give them a front row seat along with me.
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>> You were doing it for the fans. >> Yeah. Of which I was one.
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So, I did not want to be the guy who opened up the magazine to see a story about somebody I liked and to hear about their life or their opinions.
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I wanted to be a fly on the wall and see what it was like in the room with some of these people who still mean so much to us.
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>> And that was fun for me.
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That was a fans journey that I got to take.
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And you'd get letters back from people going, "Yeah, >> I listen to Cashmere in a different way now because I felt like I met them."
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>> And I felt like um and this is a little bit the way I was in my family, like >> you know, the peacemaker, the person that made sure everybody was happy.
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I liked being able to show a fan what I got to see and to uh to make them happy.
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>> I think we're both people pleasers.
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Would you agree with that? >> Yeah.
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And I I think there's nothing wrong with that.
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Um I think there's there's a time to be critical.
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There's a time to be tough.
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I've been a director and had to be all of these things.
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>> But as a young journalist, which was the time that I wanted to write about in this book because to write about things that happened for me as a director and with me, it's like that that kind of is another chapter 2. 0. Yeah.
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>> And it's a blast and it was amazing and is amazing.
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But this was a very special time that imprinted in in such an important way that I still listen to music in the way I learned to listen to it then, which is with your full heart and um throw yourself into the arms of what a song or an artist can do and take the journey with that artist.
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Like if they if they made an album that didn't thrill you, don't bail. Stick with it, man.
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They'll be back, >> right? >> They'll be back.
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The big the big journey that you take is is how to be a fan.
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I feel well I got to thank you for this because this is how I've sort of being being an artist and being someone who's made music throughout my whole life but finding myself in a situation where I'm on the other side.
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So so for me making music is the directing for you, right?
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But I but I'm I'm in this whole thing of talking to people and I'm curious about this >> which is why they open up to you.
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>> I appreciate >> you are curious and you care.
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But you also allowed people like myself to um be more comfortable in the fact that I don't really have a particularly strong critical uh muscle when it comes to art.
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And and this, you know, people often say this, you know, but I but I cannot tell I can tell the honest truth.
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Even when I'm at home, I just don't listen to what I don't like.
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>> I don't put something on and just be like, that's Like it's just like I just it's not how I'm built.
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And so what almost famous as a movie >> Yeah.
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That moment when you sit down and go, you know, how does music, you know, that last question is such a pure and beautiful question from a fan to an artist that I always remembered that and whenever I felt down about my approach, I was like, no, no, there's room for people like us. >> Absolutely.
14:23
It's funny when Almost Famous first came out, there were quite a number of people that were like, "Oh, come on. We're come on. This isn't Disneyland. The cocaine.
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I know that stuff goes on."
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And um you know the that movie was about a 15year-old falling in love with music.
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And you know if you need to see that watch it on a double bill with blues. You'll get it all. >> You'll get it all. >> You'll get it all.
14:51
But I don't think Keith Richards or somebody like that picked up a guitar for the first time because it would mean oh I'll get this lifestyle where I can be famously, you know, um decadent and like I get blow and all this stuff.
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No, he picked it up because he heard a record. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> That said, you can't say no to this feeling and I've got to do it myself.
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So, Almost Famous was a little bit about that, like first love with music and um and people was like, "Oh, everybody's singing along with Elton John on a tour bus."
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Yeah, like that happened.
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And um >> Did that happen?
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>> Yeah, it happened a number of times.
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And uh we found ourselves on a bus with you two at one point.
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And uh >> they they they wanted to redo the scene.
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>> Bono and the Edge pulled out guitars and started playing Kentucky Woman by Neil Diamond saying, "We do this all the time." >> Yeah.
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>> And >> there isn't a scene in any movie that you two don't want to own in some capacity.
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Just FYI, >> all roads lead to that.
15:53
>> I say that with love, man.
15:53
I've been on a I've been in a in a van going down the Vegas strip with Bono and Edge and I and there's Edge is strumming an acoustic guitar and I'm like, "What are you doing?"
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And he's like, "What are you talking about?"
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I'm like, I still have a phone I'm looking for. Play the song.
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>> I saw you get the song. >> What are you doing? Yeah.
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>> I mean, how often are we going to be here when you got to get He literally on the strip.
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He's like, I suppose I can do a few calls, you know? Like, what the man?
16:17
>> I I love that you jumped right into it.
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>> There was no tiptoeing.
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It was like, here's what I want. Here's what I see. Bring it. And they did.
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>> You know, you're a fan and I'm a fan.
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And there's something that comes along with that which was which is this and you know this this idea of sort of um the protective nature of that relationship.
16:33
And in recent years I've certainly learned to let artists go where they want to go and not try to prevent them from doing that out of some sort of like desire to want them to be okay.
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>> But I do get the feeling in this book that that that you had to constantly figure out like >> do I mop this up for them or do I let this occur exactly as it's happened?
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Like there is a line when you're a fan and you have a job to be objective where you have to ask yourself what is the right path here.
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>> The right path is to to capture a feeling and I I feel that's true in the movies I've been lucky enough to make too.
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It's like know the feeling that you're after.
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And there was a very specific feeling around each band or artist.
17:16
Jim Crochi is a guy that you hear a lot now.
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He's like from the early 70s.
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one of the one of those singer songwriters. He died young.
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This this was a feeling that my day and a half around this guy really stayed with me for a long time because he was just starting to become successful. And it was a glimpse.
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It was a snapshot of somebody who had dreamed and dreamed and dreamed and failed. And boom, here it was.
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And his first t-shirt came in with his face on the cover or the face on the front of it, like a rubbery face.
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And it was all kind of happening for this guy.
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And he felt like the skies were parting.
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my dream is going to come true. >> See you. Stay in touch.
17:52
A year and a half later, he was dead.
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>> But I never forgot that feeling, that elixir of music was going to take him on that ride.
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And I wanted to write about that feeling and did in the book.
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Um because it was important to to like to because you were lucky enough to be in a place that changed the way you listen to his music and other music, you know, write what happened.
18:19
>> You don't have to mop up or anything.
18:21
It's just kind of like be sharp, ask the right questions, and then know when to shut up and watch and feel it.
18:28
>> So that that's like one of the great that's bliss for a writer to get the access to do that.
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you get access and you do the same thing. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, it's a blast.
18:38
>> You know, we talk on a day when um you talked about when Jim passed away and we talk on a day where we where we've lost D'Angelo, you know, >> amazing.
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>> We passed away today and um we found out and um >> shock.
18:49
>> Do you do you feel like you've had a chance in your life to tell musicians what their music has meant to you?
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Yes, I've done it in how I've written about them and I've done it in the way that um this is this one of the cool things that happened is I was able to go back and ask to use some of the music from the artists that had been so cool to me as a little guy >> and to a person including Led Zeppelin, they would give us the music, not charge
19:18
us a whole lot >> and appreciate the fact that we let the songs play because there there's a lot of times that you hear a little piece of a song in a movie and then it disappears, but I always like to use it so that it stretches across a scene and you get to you get to live in the song with some visuals, too. And that was
19:35
And that was always a great thing that that h that that grew out of that original thing that I write about in the book.
19:42
It was like there's a there's a relationship that happens where somebody looks at you and says, "You understand my music."
19:47
And then later you can come back and say, "I understand your music and here's how I used it in a movie."
19:54
and everybody sings along with it on a bus, you know. >> Yeah.
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>> And that that little game has been fun over the years, >> you know.
20:01
One key scene um because people talk about the almost famous scene a lot and but but but but the one that always comes up to me in the montage of great scenes whenever there's an Academy Awards montage and they want to sort of show the magic of cinema.
20:11
Uh it's the free falling scene with Tom Cruz and Jerry McGuire.
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>> It it comes up a lot because I think it it really captures that pure human experience of feeling something, sadness or joy.
20:22
In that case, joy, a sense of absolute freedom, and just looking for the perfect song.
20:26
And along comes the perfect song.
20:28
He He doesn't know the words really, but he knows the chorus. >> That's the best part.
20:32
Like winging it through the part of the song that you don't really know what they're saying, but free.
20:39
>> I'm just going to dive in.
20:39
How many times, And by the way, if you're watching that as a kid or a younger person, you have immediate cringe withdrawal because that's how your parents sang along to every song on the radio. >> Absolutely.
20:48
And if you look at the cars that are next to you driving around, they're doing it, too. I know. I know. I know. >> Okay.
20:55
You didn't know the verse, but you know the chorus.
20:58
>> So, how did you get Tom do it so effectively?
20:59
Did he not know the song? Was it method acting? >> One take. >> One take. Knew the run of songs.
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>> He didn't really know the song. >> No, he knew Patty. He He's a petty. He's a big music fan.
21:11
>> Uh he didn't know Graham Parsons, for example, or some of the other stuff that was in there.
21:15
>> But I I just remember like he he is such a let's let's not talk about it. Let's just go do it. >> Yeah. >> Guy.
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And so we had already had a long day and then we just had that one piece where he was going to be doing it.
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He was like, "Let's go right over there. Let's drive. Let's do it."
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And that what he gives you in that scene is is him.
21:32
That's the enthusiasm of loving music.
21:35
>> Uh I talked to him the other day.
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I hadn't talked to him in a while.
21:37
I talked to him the other day.
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He was talking about going to see Bruce Springsteen and was geeking out over the fact that Bruce did Secret Garden Live.
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M >> and I'm just thinking like, yes, this this is the same guy that was in that car singing Freef Fall and he's, you know, now it's a Bruce song, but he's he's singing along.
21:53
You know, >> this is the Tom I want to meet.
21:54
I want to meet Tom who went to Oasis.
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Like I love Tom who runs like iconically through movies, but I want to meet Tom who was singing along to live forever. >> You should. I You know, that's Tom. It's the coolest. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right.
22:09
You worked for some of the best, man.
22:10
And and I feel like maybe this kind of um masterass that you that you achieved by talking to some of the toughest perhaps set you up to be able to deal with actors on set and speak that language in a unique way because when you're in a motel room with Greg Almond, it's a very different experience than you you're not friendly at that point.
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You have to earn his trust.
22:31
And even then when you got called back at 2 a. m.
22:33
, it's like I don't even know if I did that.
22:35
So, I mean, it really was like in terms of speaking the language, the art, the artist's language, you were given like a degree at a very young age, right?
22:45
>> See, I was really scared when Greg Alman called up and said, "Get get back up to my room with those tapes of all your interviews." >> Oh, yeah.
22:53
What I mean, you're so high. You're so high. You're crashing so fast.
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>> I was in the middle of recapping the amazing interview we'd gotten earlier that night, and something happened.
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I didn't know what it was.
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I was shaking in the elevator.
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I just did the audiobook uh reading for the uncool.
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And uh I I cried reading it because I had to stop because the the fear was it's still there. >> It's trauma. >> Yeah. Because you're 15. The guy's a hero.
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You've been a kid in a candy store for like 10 days straight. Interviewed everybody.
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Asked them the toughest questions.
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And the night before you're going to leave, the trap door opens and you fall.
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And it was emotionally violent and still there.
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>> And of course, it was great to see him 10 years ago before he died.
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And what passed between us, though he wrote about it in his book kind of as a >> as a as a tour bus like jokey story. >> It was all a joke.
23:59
What passed between us when I was able to see him again was the knowledge back and forth.
24:05
And it was one of the most beautiful unspoken conversations, a telepathic thing.
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And the only thing that came out of me at the time was, "Thank you for Almost Famous."
24:15
And he said, "You're welcome."
24:17
That was all we really said about it.
24:20
But we knew the heart of Almost Famous is the heartbreak that happened to the kid in a similar situation.
24:27
and without that moment, maybe there's not this movie that he had seen and liked.
24:33
And so that that was a pretty poignant thing. But, um, I don't know.
24:38
I'm glad it happened because it it it prepared me for what life really could be like, as all of my favorite songs would capture scary things sometimes.
24:48
And that was extremely scary because I didn't know if I was going to get beaten up or what was going to happen.
24:56
And what happened was he took the tapes and then a couple days later made sure I got them back and didn't quite know why he had them.
25:03
And I think looking back um >> his misses would have said it, right?
25:09
His misses would have said cuz she knew >> I would hope so.
25:12
She was >> she knew what you were walking into based on what you wrote.
25:15
>> She was scared shitless too.
25:15
She was in like a bed across the room kind of like this. >> Yeah.
25:22
>> But you know what, Greg Almond, you don't sing like that.
25:25
You don't play like that if you don't have access to that level >> pain >> of pain and the pain cuts >> in every direction. >> Oh yeah. You you it's not a tool.
25:36
It's you can just pull out and use and spare people from.
25:40
If he's in pain and you were the last person who brought that pain, you brought the pain up.
25:44
It's clear to me from what you wrote, you uncovered some things for him that later in life he might have been grateful for, but in that moment in time, you brought him back to the pain and he wanted to punish you for it. Right. >> Yes.
25:56
And the fact that I didn't I had not done drugs with him or around him I think maybe wonder he made him wonder later like well is he a cop? >> Yeah. >> Is he is he a cop? >> Yeah. This all seems weird.
26:12
>> But you know he had told me in the interview earlier that night that like Yeah.
26:15
It was it was really fun how my brother Dwayne would sneak me into clubs at 16 when I was underage.
26:20
So a couple hours later he's saying like you're 16. Yeah. >> You're 16.
26:25
I'm like, >> you were 16 when your brother >> snuck you into clubs.
26:30
Like >> I thought when you when I read that >> see your ID, man. >> Yeah.
26:34
But and and he still made you sign a contract.
26:36
But I love that you said that and I thought at the time >> when I read that I was like hell, the onion's on this kid, you know, to to have the presence of mind to be sitting opposite this person.
26:45
And you're right, it is trauma. I'm sorry. It is.
26:48
anything when you're 16 and you're faced with that level of shock is going to leave a lasting impression that requires work to get through or better understand.
26:57
It ain't just a story to tell.
26:58
So, you're facing off in this situation and to have the the the the presence of mind and the courage turn around and say, "Hang on, what's what's the difference between you you brother helping you out and you helping me out?"
27:07
Like, you're just paying it forward, man.
27:09
Like, what the >> This is why life is the best writer because I couldn't go to sleep.
27:13
M >> I sat in the San Francisco airport waiting to like missing flights not wanting to go home and who walks by my sister the stewardist Cindy flight attendant for you know I guess Western Airlines sees me crumpled up in a seat and and she was like yes that's you living your life not not not trying to please mom you know you're out there doing your thing >> mom's fault poor moms it's always mom's fault Right?
27:45
For a period in time between about 15 and 21, it's all mom's fault.
27:50
That's what you get for nurturing children, right?
27:52
I'm going to leave you in the most horrible way and I'll come back.
27:56
But for 3 years, I hate you and if you just let us listen to the doors, everything would be different. She was great.
28:03
Cindy was the one that gave me the secret records to begin with.
28:07
And so, she kind of rescued me.
28:08
And that was another saying that was another thing that people said about the movie where they were like, "Oh, it was fake when the sister finds him in the airport."
28:16
>> Wow, that really happened. >> No, it's not fake. It was a life raft.
28:20
>> The only artistic license that I I mean, there's there's obviously artistic license to any great retelling of any story, but I loved how Billy Craup comes to the house at the end.
28:26
I thought that was cool cuz the phone call was powerful, but it's almost like the way you wrote it was almost like um like underwhelming.
28:33
Like I've just been through all this trauma and you're telling me with a quick two-minute phone call that everything's cool. >> Yeah.
28:38
Like >> what the >> Like I thought my world was over and you're telling me there's a FedEx package coming.
28:42
Like what is this planet? >> I know.
28:44
>> But the fact that Billy Kup knocks on your door and comes in and he's so good in that role.
28:47
I mean >> he just plays that narcissistic like well-meaning crazy person so well. >> Yeah. But recognizes truth.
28:54
So in the in the in the scene, this is why Billy is so wonderful is like he gets a half smile and the half smile is like, "Okay, >> yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:05
I needed to get slapped around a little bit, but okay. All right, bring it. Bring it.
29:10
And he also does a thing as he's leaving in a cab that he called the and apppropo, the great Robert Redford, who we just lost.
29:20
He did he did a Redford, which is like you look back, you turn away, and then you look back one more time. That's the Redford.
29:29
And he dealt out the Redford.
29:31
And I'm like, okay, all right. This is good. >> He got it. >> This is good.
29:35
And he's I just watched him a little bit on the morning show the other day and it's like the same guy.
29:38
He just threads that needle. >> He does that thing.
29:42
He looks at the camera and he goes, >> "Yes, that was a pretty good crude up there."
29:47
>> That little little little kiss of his teeth and that sort of cheeky smile and you're like, "Ah, You've got secrets, you bastard." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
29:52
And you feel good about your secrets, too.
29:55
>> You know, the casting is so good, man.
29:55
I mean, obviously Kate Hudson has achieved what Kate Hudson has achieved entirely on her own terms, but everyone's got to get their breakout moment.
30:03
and almost famous was hers.
30:04
famous was hers. I'd imagine for her at that time coming from the kind of back background that she did and everyone talks about nepotism these days and what obviously it's a it's a reality that you know let's be honest with you opportunity creates opportunity and so that's it's totally fine people people want to create a term for the internet
30:21
go for it makes sense give it a category and let everyone fight it out and justify the themselves themselves but back then >> it was even tougher and stranger in a weird way because it didn't it hadn't made it to the internet >> she probably couldn't even get through a casting door because she is Goldie Horn's daughter to some degree, I would imagine, or be taken seriously in the roles she wanted. That's what I'm
30:39
That's what I'm guessing.
30:41
You tell me what it was like casting Kate Hudson in a role like that given what was laid out for her in life.
30:47
This is a this is a pretty interesting story.
30:49
Like some sometimes things break your way casting a movie and everything happens the way it should usually, but um sometimes it doesn't.
30:58
This was a case where the gods were smiling on us.
31:00
Um, the woman that was supposed to play the mother dropped out.
31:06
Francis McDorman steps in. Okay, come on. Come on.
31:13
>> The the uh the actress who was >> Sorry, sir.
31:16
We no longer have broccoli, but would you like some fried chicken instead? You know, I would. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much.
31:21
I'm >> Thank you to the restaurant of life. >> Thank you. >> That was incredible.
31:28
She had sent a note saying, "I would love to be in your your uh your your love letter to music."
31:33
Because I had written a note saying, "Here's my love letter to music."
31:36
So, that was an amazing day.
31:38
But >> the actress who was playing Penny Lane got hit with a feeling of like I I need to do independent film and I need to kind of direct myself and do my own.
31:48
And she was very passionate about it, but we had been working on it for months.
31:54
>> And uh >> have you ever said who that was? Is she known actor?
31:56
Sarah Polly, I think it's it's well known, big, big fan. She's incredible.
32:02
>> Smart enough to know that this wasn't right for her at that time, but to us it was like >> the you know, this is really bad for the movie.
32:10
>> Um, Kate Hudson had come in because I had saw her in I had seen her in an audience at a play and she just had this spirit that just went in waves around her.
32:20
She would say hi to somebody.
32:20
I think she had barely started acting.
32:23
She would say hi to somebody and like in her wake were just these people who like loved her and were smiling.
32:28
It's like okay well she's got that elixir. >> Yeah. Yeah.
32:34
>> So I thought well this is the she's she should play my sister the one that gives me the secret stash of albums and she has this one line that was really important to me which is like one day you'll be cool.
32:44
And Kate did this in her audition and it was like oh that's it. That's it.
32:52
can't do the movie without her doing that line.
32:53
So Sarah Polly drops out and then uh we we talked about some other people and did some auditions and and then it was became clear that like Kate should be given a shot.
33:05
Kate who was now getting bigger offers.
33:09
>> Our movie was a little bit on the rocks and I kept hearing reports like they would offer her bigger parts >> for other movies and they would say you know that movie they're not making it.
33:18
they don't have the cast.
33:18
So, like, you know, come and be in this bigger part over here.
33:22
And Kate would always say, "Nope, I want to be in Cameron's Little Music movie."
33:27
>> And so, so her her loyalty >> Yeah. >> was incredible.
33:32
So, she did like four auditions and by the last one, you know, it was just clear.
33:38
She put on a coat that was kind of like the Penny Lane coat that we ended up having in the movie and it was like, "There she is." >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I found her.
33:45
>> And the ripple effect of that was so huge.
33:47
And I realized the movie worked in in in a very significant way because Kate Hudson's loyalty as a person allowed her to play the part in which her loyalty made the whole Penny Lane's loyalty to music and love >> was the soul of the movie.
34:07
So what Kate naturally had, >> it's so true because because when you're watching that film, you really do get a sense that um even beyond the character, she is guiding this thing to success.
34:21
Like she is literally guiding this. Everyone is in the film.
34:23
I mean, everyone shows up and just you talk about little music movie and stuff, but that movie changed your life and gave you a whole new journey to go on. I mean >> Yeah.
34:32
And and when it came time to write something just for me because Jerry Maguire had come out and had been, you know, a a big success and we were never sure about that because we used to sit in the room and people would the marketing people would say like, well, you know, it's sports and romance.
34:48
I don't know if those two things go together.
34:51
This is one of those movies where, you know, but then >> people showed up and and really took it to heart.
35:00
So I had a shot to do a movie that was from the heart for sure.
35:03
Just like if I can this is the one time I can do this movie and it was almost famous and it's still the thing I hear about the most. It's the most personal.
35:13
It was it was the least equipped to head into a a busy marketplace of anything I've done.
35:21
>> And it's the thing that's been treasured by people like me who love music and saw something that that they felt about music.
35:28
And not to be the guy on a book tour that says in my book, but the book was the same thing.
35:34
I didn't write this book for to even be published.
35:39
It was like for me and it was about that same thing of like I want to write it because it matters to me.
35:46
>> It's for me, you know, and for everybody else.
35:47
I'm going to be really honest with you, Cameron, and I'm not going to you because you can't, you know, you just seem like an unbullshitable kind of guy.
35:52
Um, >> but I haven't read it.
35:55
No, >> no, I haven't read all of it. And I'll tell you why.
35:58
Because because I want Okay. No, I'll tell you why.
36:00
I've I've probably read >> half half to twothirds of it.
36:03
But the here's the annoying thing.
36:05
When you get given a book and you're going to talk to someone about their book, you can't help but speed read through it because you want to learn everything you can to make the most of the time you get to spend with a person, but it's not the most enjoyable actual opportunity to read a book.
36:17
And I've done that with books. >> I bet.
36:19
>> And I said to my wife last night, >> she was like, "How you doing?"
36:22
And I was like, I'm flying through this thing, but I'm going to stop because I actually want to read this now from the beginning.
36:31
>> Killer >> top to bottom again.
36:32
So, I know a lot of what's going on in here, obviously, >> but I want an experience with this that's mine and not doesn't doesn't ladder up to this.
36:41
This this could happen with or with no book, I think, >> but I want to have this with me.
36:47
>> This is why you were the guy.
36:47
You first of all you you tell me that and I go that was the dream because I wanted to be like music.
36:56
I wanted to be like you can hear a track here or there but most of all and I felt this with the Patty Smith book just kids.
37:04
>> It's not a coffee table book that sits there to you know to to be to look like it's >> important.
37:11
It's uh it's a book for a backpack.
37:14
It's a book to like pull out and read a little bit maybe and get that feeling.
37:19
Um, and that's what it was written for.
37:21
Like I've always loved books like that.
37:23
I still have books that I want close and they'll be on my desk because I want to flip through them and just get that feeling.
37:30
>> Joan Ddian's written books like that. >> Yeah.
37:33
>> Um, Richard Curtis's screenplay book I kind of flip through sometimes just go, damn, he's good at this >> I'll joust with that. He is.
37:44
>> Um, but but yeah, that's what I wanted.
37:47
I wanted it to be something that made you feel like music can make you feel.
37:51
And by the way, it's about that very thing.
37:52
>> I'm going to own it like an album.
37:52
I mean, you can see all the various pages and stuff that I've gone through as I'm trying to figure out the stories I want to touch on, but I'm like I don't want to I got to honor this thing from the top to the bottom because it is an amazing journey.
38:03
And I know that it there's been trauma in your life.
38:07
Like in everybody's life, there is things you have to go through that carve you out of stone and set you on your life's path.
38:14
>> But there's something that seems to be a throughine here which is like you like redemption stories. >> Yeah.
38:20
>> You like redemption stories.
38:20
I you know Jerry McGuire redemption story you know almost a lot of the writing a lot of the articles that you wrote ultimately you know finding these characters even the Eagles for dismissed as this kind of like almost a prototype boy band and you're like no no no I'm going to go live with them.
38:34
I'm going to I'm going to show you how talented they are.
38:36
There's a redemption in that even.
38:36
What is it about that kind of storytelling that that you're drawn to?
38:43
>> It's it's uh the wounded optimist is one of my favorite characters. >> All right, Crow. All right. You get a bomb for that. That's a good one. The wounded optimist.
38:52
Holy Cuz aren't all optimists wounded? >> Yeah, for sure. >> For sure. The knives are out.
39:00
>> So, why not why not uh make that your hero or heroine?
39:02
And it's it's it just seems like that's the thing you need to get through sometimes.
39:07
I feel bad like just talking about smells like teen spirit a minute ago. >> Yeah.
39:13
>> I was living in Seattle during that time and uh and I never got to meet Kurt, but but he floated through, you know, all so many different parts of that city and our lives and there for sure.
39:25
And uh I just I always think if he'd given it one more day, it might have been a different day that he woke up in and uh and he'd still be with us.
39:38
>> It's like Neil says, you know, like if I spoken to him, I just send your dog.
39:42
>> He said I would have I just would have said stop. >> Yeah.
39:44
>> I'd have said just cancel everything.
39:44
I mean, you know, >> I loved that PJ movie you made. I thought it was great.
39:49
I've watched that >> a lot. >> Cool.
39:52
>> That's a real traveler for me because I love the band obviously.
39:54
Well, that's the artist from the artist's point of view, which is how I always wanted to write the stories.
39:58
It's like get their point of view across because their point of view made the music that makes you interested in writing or reading the story.
40:06
So, the Pearl Jam documentary was like, get out of the way, watch the watch them, let him talk.
40:10
Stone Gossard is one of the funniest guys around. Let Stone talk. >> Dry as the Sahara.
40:18
>> Matt Cameron obviously has one of the nicestly appointed houses I've ever seen in my life. Pure exposed wood.
40:22
It's important that we know that >> like big panes of glass and lots of foliage.
40:26
I'm obsessed with Matt Cameron's house back like 20 years ago.
40:30
>> And Eddie Eddie, you know, kind of seeing his original tape with the phone number on it and just like saying, "What if we call that number? Who'd answer?"
40:38
You know, >> he's so deep, isn't he?
40:39
I mean, you ask him just the most simple thing and he will make sure that he goes and searches for the one unique observation that really moves him.
40:44
He's constantly searching for what moves him.
40:48
>> Lover of music, >> of lover of life.
40:52
I'm glad you brought that up.
40:52
There's a whole other book that you need to write and I'm saying that selfishly, you know, which is all about like, you know, the journey you went on after you started to mature, you grew up, you realized your voice, you started making movies and whatnot.
41:03
Singles, Seattle, obviously touching back in with Seattle during the Pill Jam documentary.
41:07
Seattle as a time in the early 90s gave us some of the most exciting, deep, and emotional music in my lifetime.
41:15
What has occurred since then, what has occurred since then is nothing but heartbreaking.
41:19
With the exception of a few bands and a few artists that continue to strive forward and live life, we've lost some great and some great way past that time.
41:26
I mean, losing Chris just >> uh >> I still cannot get my head around it.
41:31
I still can't get my head. >> I'm not over it. >> Yeah.
41:34
I can't get my head around it at all.
41:36
And so, you know, looking back on that time that you were there and you captured such a singular snapshot with singles. You really did.
41:41
You took the bands that were moving the needle and you gave them a safe place to tell their story, albe it tongue and cheek, right?
41:49
Which is important because everyone else was telling the wrong story. >> Yeah.
41:52
Well, >> what was that like that experience at that time?
41:56
I had come from Los Angeles and it was kind of the hairband era was still lingering in Los Angeles and I I felt like I don't know I when I first started going up to Seattle there was a radio station where you could hear like Junior Well, you'd hear blues, you'd hear gospel, you'd hear Mudhoney all together.
42:17
And I just thought, well, this is Mecca. >> This is incredible.
42:20
I want to write a movie where this is the soundtrack.
42:22
And maybe no one will ever know how great these bands are.
42:28
Um, but like I do, so I want to make this like I I love Do the Right Thing, the Spike Lee movie.
42:34
And I was like, well, this is this is my Do the Right Thing.
42:37
I get to put my music in and like people talk to the camera.
42:40
And >> so part of the gift of that was we could give these bands that didn't have much exposure outside of Seattle >> some some exposure.
42:48
So like let's let's use the movie to be a radio station >> to for everybody.
42:55
>> And the the interesting thing was they all needed a job in some way or another.
43:00
So they all had jobs around the movie or in the art department and it was such a wonderful community.
43:06
>> So everyone was employed making the movie as well as being in the movie.
43:08
You know, Jeff and Stone, Jeff Jeff ament was working on the art department and Eddie was writing songs and >> Okay, I found this on the web was employed making the movie as well as being in the movie. Check it out. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Siri. >> I will do that.
43:25
>> We appreciate it, Siri joining in and having and playing a nice little role here.
43:29
>> The music means something to Siri, too.
43:31
>> You know what, Cameron?
43:31
I take it as a compliment.
43:32
This conversation is so enthralling that even AI would like to be involved in it.
43:35
We finally cracked the code between humanity and AI.
43:37
I feel like this is the moment where the Terminators lose.
43:41
We realize the only thing we have to do to combat AI successfully is be interesting.
43:47
>> And it all happened here today.
43:47
Right now, right here, right now. Another first for Crow.
43:51
Another first for Crow, everybody.
43:57
>> So, Edd's writing songs, Jeff's painting things.
43:59
and the we made the movie and um the studio Warner Brothers saw it at the time and just said, "Well, this really isn't this isn't this isn't something, you know, something. Where's Billy Crystal? Where's like this?
44:14
There's some there's something missing here.
44:17
>> Could you put a Batman in it?
44:18
>> There needs to be something more.
44:18
Let's put it on the shelf."
44:22
>> And um and so we didn't have a release date for it for for a long time.
44:25
And then Smells Like Teen Spirit happened.
44:29
And all of a sudden the kids of the executives who had shelved the movie were like, >> "Hey, do you have a movie with like Pearl Jam and maybe Nirvana in it?"
44:38
And it's like, "Yes, we do."
44:42
>> And uh and they wanted to call it Come As You Are and all that stuff.
44:44
And at that point, >> at that point, >> Kurt had said after giving us demos from Nevermind to use in the movie, like we we don't want to give our stuff to a movie. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They pulled out.
44:57
>> They were in fight or flight >> and rightly so. >> Yeah. Yeah.
45:00
>> But everybody else stayed in and um and it ended up kind of coming out and some some people felt like oh well they just went out last weekend and made a move. >> You can't win.
45:11
>> But it's like no, it kind of takes years.
45:14
So these jokes about big in Seattle were funny then.
45:17
Now they're deeply ironic and you know.
45:20
So anyway, I'm I'm glad the movie lives as as a snapshot of that time because >> there there they are. >> So many amazing.
45:31
>> I just want to say one thing. >> Yeah, please.
45:33
>> Chris Cornell was a major inspiration in to me personally saying, "Write this thing from your heart.
45:41
I will help whenever wherever I can."
45:44
and gave us, you know, like one one day slipped us a cassette with seasons and all of the this amaz spoon man, all of this stuff that he had done just for fun to like slip to us.
46:01
It it was I mean just striking in every way.
46:05
So, Seasons lives as one of the great records ever, >> ever, >> which was just kind of a joke.
46:12
He said he gave it to us as a joke and that's how brilliant Chris Cornell is and will always be because that's the >> It's my top 10. >> Yeah. No, no doubt.
46:27
>> Songwriting wise, I mean, I I I put that next to anything, you know.
46:29
Um Chris just he he wrote from a place that kind of um made it less scary for all of us, you know.
46:41
He he said he made melancholy and sadness and depression and loneliness and those things we all feel translatable.
46:50
Um I could sort of understand what it felt like to I I was okay with how it felt once I heard Chris's songs. >> Yeah.
47:00
>> And there and you know Kurt was the same.
47:02
And that that time was you know we got real writers who were unafraid. >> Yeah. >> Just unafraid. Yeah. From the heart. >> Really? Really >> not a pose. Not a pose. Not a Jesus Christ pose. Not a pose.
47:18
>> Like he was good at that though, wasn't he? As >> he was.
47:19
We knew we wanted We knew we wanted Sound Garden. I loved Sound Garden. Love Sound Garden.
47:23
Viva Sound Garden, you know, and they were going to perform in the movie along with Allison Chains, which who were, you know, gave us an amazing live piece >> and also Wood.
47:35
>> And Wood is >> being all all time. Great. >> I It's It's killer.
47:39
and to have Jimmyi Hendris on the album, too.
47:41
It's just like a meeting of the Seattle I don't know this the spirit warriors and and uh anyway so Chris the day came where we were we were going to do Sound Garden in this club and and Chris Chris came up to me and said so do you want shirtless Chris Cornell or Chris Cornell with a shirt?
48:04
We're like man shirtless Chris Cornell come on. And he's like, "Okay." And did it.
48:10
But I love >> He was so funny.
48:12
>> He had the the foresight to know there was a choice to be made.
48:16
>> And >> he played with it all. He knew.
48:18
>> He played with it all. >> He knew. He knew. I man.
48:19
He was And he was a prankster, too.
48:21
I remember when uh >> Love him.
48:24
>> First time I ever interviewed him. I was so in awe of him.
48:27
>> It was Super Unknown just come out. It was in Oakuckland.
48:29
They were headlining the big day out. It was crazy.
48:32
Urge Overkill, Smashing Pumpkins, Breeders and Sound Garden with the four international bands on our first ever major major international festival in a long time.
48:41
And uh I interviewed him and he was just it was just his hair was beautifully short and spiky.
48:45
He just looked impeccable.
48:48
>> I was smoking back then.
48:48
I offered him a cigarette and he was like, "No, I actually just quit."
48:50
And I immediately just thought, "Man, maybe I'm going to quit too. Maybe I should quit."
48:53
And it's the first time I'd ever thought about quitting smoking cuz Chris Cornell had quit.
48:57
And I was and I and and the end he finished and I was like, "You know, that might be my last cigarette."
49:00
I was that impressionable and that in love with him. >> Wow.
49:04
>> I was like, "That might be my m last cigarette."
49:05
My producer, he was like, "You're joking.
49:06
He's smoking one outside the whole time right now as we speak."
49:11
>> He was a prankster, man.
49:11
Whatever he could do to kind of like make it not so serious. >> Yeah. Yeah.
49:18
>> Obviously, life was super serious, you know, for him as a writer like that to go through that.
49:21
>> And he was helping out other bands, too.
49:23
He I remember him calling at one point and saying, "You got to get into the Smashing Pumpkins.
49:26
We played a show with the Smashing Pumpkins.
49:27
You should They should be in your movie." >> Yeah.
49:30
>> Yeah. And so >> and you were like no they're from Chicago seat I'm joking know they were >> but then we have Paul Westerberg and yeah so no it was Chris very important to this moment and beyond >> you know you had a really impactful moment as well in recent years where you know you got a chance to kind of extend that that love you have for writing that
49:47
original love you have for writing into into you know with Harry I mean you got to spend some time with Harry and and I'd love to know sort of like um not contrast is the wrong word but just where the differences were and how it felt writing from from inside that experience versus what it was like writing from inside the sports arena with Led Zeppelin. >> Well, Harry Harry is is is like a
50:04
>> Well, Harry Harry is is is like a brilliant student at your college.
50:09
He he has studied the right amount of stuff and left enough for him to bring as a as an original artist, but he studied the history.
50:21
>> He made friends with Glenn Fry of the Eagles.
50:23
He learned a little bit from all of these things.
50:25
What I got for Harry is he is as smart as he is inspired and the two hold hands >> beautifully said >> brilliantly in Harry and you can hear it in his records.
50:39
>> He picks and chooses beautifully but it's him.
50:44
>> So I just think he's been brilliant about learning what came before. >> Yeah.
50:49
>> And uh bringing it into the future in such a soulful way.
50:52
I mean, you go see him live and his walk-in music is incredible.
50:57
It ends with like Flamingco sketches, Miles Davis. And guess what? Guess what? They're all digging it.
51:02
And that audience >> is is probably a little young for somebody of come to come in and say like, "Check out Flamingo Sketches." But Harry did that.
51:13
But what but when you're in the room with Harry and you're seeing how it's all because obviously >> I mean he had the whirlwind of all whirlwinds, you know, joining that band at a young age, ridiculously short amount of time.
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kind of the Beatles manuscript really the playbook, you know, get it done. >> You bet. >> And done. >> Yeah.
51:27
>> Um >> and you saw the way that like like musicians were dealing with that level of pressure and fame and attention and love because it is a form of love. >> Absolutely.
51:37
>> When you were young in those rooms, um and then you see how it's happening. Is it the same? Is it different? Is it tougher?
51:43
What do you see with some altitude, some wisdom, and some empathy?
51:48
I I think there now is help that's available for people that are honest about something that's troubling them about their success or whatever.
51:57
Um as as recently as singles era there was not that level of help.
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So you did get lane daily >> losing some of these people and not just the people you know there were other people on the outskirts that did not make it >> because they were close to the flame >> and had nobody to really really give them some good help.
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Now I think that's available and that's really that's really good.
52:27
Um Harry Harry was so smart about his own emotion.
52:34
I remember he was going through something one night and and he was recording and he went in and had all the lights turned off and he went in and sang a song that he had written that's never come out that was so beautifully and honestly raw and aching.
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And I think he did it just for him.
52:54
I think he did it for therapy. And it was amazing.
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And who knows if it'll ever come out, but that's that's the guy that I saw who was a very young man >> traversing very tough territory in a way that was kind and inspired.
53:19
>> Who do you wish that you had met and talked to? >> Marvin Gay.
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Marvin Gay was the one that got away. I love Marvin Gay.
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Uh, we've been trying to do a movie of Marvin's life for for a while, >> which is a little bit like kind of pulling the sword from the stone. It's a tough one.
53:37
Maybe it's >> I've heard whispers about things in production or not in production for a while.
53:41
It feels like that's a tough one to get involved.
53:43
>> It gets close and then it doesn't happen both either in my hands or other people's hands.
53:46
It's almost like the spirit of Marvin >> Yeah.
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>> isn't ready to like let that drop yet. >> Yeah.
53:52
But um Marvin, yeah, I I would have uh I I would have done a really good interview with Marvin.
53:58
A friend of mine got to interview him and he was so mellow, you know, a after being the great soul star of so many hits.
54:06
He was the they showed up to do the interview. He was so mellow.
54:09
I think he had a joint that he fell asleep.
54:14
>> That's happened to me before, too.
54:14
I've had some >> He fell asleep.
54:16
My friends are like, "What do we pack up the thing and go?" I guess so.
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He's the Marvin is uh resting deeply. >> Oh man. >> And they left.
54:25
But that that level of just like being in the pocket of your group so much.
54:30
Well, there's a scene that was a that was an outtake from Almost Famous that was like kind of a tribute to that where Stillwater are doing an interview at a radio station and the DJ falls asleep.
54:40
So they just end up riffing on all kinds of ridiculous stuff.
54:45
>> I remember the first time it ever happened to me, man. I was mortified.
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I was just like, did I bore somebody to sleep here? what's going on?
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And then I realized, no, they are real high on drugs.
54:56
They were they were going to sleep whether you were there or not.
55:00
>> You were just passing by. You were passing by. >> Totally. Totally.
55:02
I was laughing if I hit that Bill Hook thing.
55:04
Real freaking high on drugs.
55:06
Um, I can't wait to see the Jonie Mitchell doc.
55:09
>> I'm the movie, I should say. Feature.
55:12
Yeah, I should say feature.
55:13
>> I think you'll I think you'll like it.
55:13
I mean, >> I know you can't say much about it, man, but I'm excited to see it. >> I really am.
55:17
And um I mean just the fact that Joanie has said yes. >> Yeah.
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>> And has worked with you, I know you're very close with her, but >> man, you know, she doesn't around. >> She doesn't.
55:26
And if you if you if you're a young songwriter coming up or not so young, it's been uh it and hopefully we'll use some of it in the movie, but it's absolutely thrilling to see her writing notebooks because to make these songs feel so effortless and deeply resonant, >> she puts a lot of work into it.
55:49
And you see early versions of stuff where it's like most people would stop right there like I'm good up here. I'm good.
55:55
But then it keeps going and it gets deeper and more refined and funnier and then at a certain point it's done.
56:03
And you just see the journey of an artist that takes it knows when it's right and doesn't stop until it lands in that place that's right for her.
56:13
And then she said she she puts it through through a prism of like, have I done anything like this before? >> That's the end.
56:24
>> And if and and if and if the answer is yes, you won't hear it.
56:27
So >> that's the that is the complete difference from most people who who who are counseledled or feel inside like, okay, I'm very successful now.
56:38
That's the world saying this is how we want you, so I'm going to stay right here. She's the opposite.
56:44
She's like, I got to move on. >> Got to move.
56:48
>> I mean, her songs literally tell those stories all the time. >> Yeah.
56:51
Well, one of the gifts of the movie, I think, will be there'll be songs that you never realized were available to you all along, and now you can go back and see the stuff that's at the corners of her albums that she worked so hard on that are >> as good and as often even more resonant as the stuff, you know.
57:07
That's why I love Brandy so much because she was the perfect person to kind of guide Joanie back into this because she writes from a similar dedicated point of view.
57:13
She's got to cover new ground.
57:15
I was joking with Brandy.
57:17
I was actually on the Puet Sound with Brandy the other day. We were fishing. It was lovely.
57:20
And she was uh we were talking and uh I told her how how Joanie had given me one of the greatest shortest jokes of all time at the Hollywood Bowl show where she said uh God is dead. Nichi Ni is dead.
57:33
God and got a huge laugh. The greatest laugh ever.
57:39
Like everyone just processed that for a split second and then just fell over laughing because it was just like beautifully cruel like all great jokes are.
57:47
Brand Brandy is a is a fan in all the most amazing ways.
57:50
Brand Brandy goes for deeper water uh while creating a safe place around her heroes. And it's great.
57:59
And she's done it more than just with Joanie.
58:01
When I first met Brandy, she she was doing a duet with Chris Kristofferson for a Joanie birthday event.
58:09
And >> you know, she she just has a way of kind of holding the hand of somebody who's been important to her and letting them be important again.
58:21
>> Who else is going to sing those sound songs?
58:25
>> Amazing to think about, huh? >> Right.
58:27
I mean, I'm assuming that's why she's going.
58:30
>> Let's Let's Let's Yeah, >> fingers crossed. I mean, >> I'm ready.
58:33
I'm ready for it as well.
58:33
Um, I have so many things to ask you and there's three things in my mind right now.
58:39
I can't remember any of them because I I've got so many things that they cancel each other out.
58:42
I'm going to kick myself the minute we stop.
58:43
But that just means we have to talk again. >> Great. >> Um, love it.
58:48
>> So, you know, you don't have to talk about nothing.
58:49
Your art speaks for itself.
58:51
This you had to talk about. Sorry. Under contract.
58:52
Uh, but everything else, um, you know, when you make the movie, you do whatever you're going to do.
58:57
If you if you choose to elaborate, I would love to welcome you back anytime.
59:00
It's been such a joy talking with you, man. >> Likewise. Absolutely. >> Thanks, bud. >> Thank you.