I grew up in a world where it's so competitive even if I'm not the most talented I'm the hardest worker until you're burnt out and you don't have anything else to give and then what look I'm trying to talk to you about a job opportunity do I look unemployed to you
you are emerging in Hollywood in such a real way give it up for La anthy when my whole marriage came crumbling down and I was in that bed I was there by myself nobody gets married and says I'm getting divorced you get married because you
feel like you found your person and this is what the rest of your life is going to be like what can I do I have to adjust before we jump into this episode I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier healthier
and more healed all I want you to do is click on the Subscribe button I love your support it's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started I can't wait to go on this journey with you thank you so much for subscribing it means the world to me the
bestselling author and host the number one Health and Wellness podcast on purpose with J shett Lala thank thank you so much for doing this honestly like I will always show up for you you literally like you came on the show when like I don't even
know anyone knew what the show was and you I think we just connected online and we'd started messaging and I was so grateful when you came on and since then we've stayed in touch we' always stayed in touch and I always say you're my friend and someone I could depend on and
you always say the right things at like you just said something to me right now I was like I needed to hear that I needed to hear that like today's been some time one of those days and I was like I needed that you always like know exactly what to say you're very sweet
and I appreciate that and I want to let's start there actually like one thing I've been encouraging my friends to do people that I love people I care about is reflecting on difficult things they've got through difficult things they've broken through because I think
often we do a lot of difficult things and I realized this through my mom actually so my mom is a superwoman she has done so many difficult things in her life but she sees them as normal so she never stops to think oh I'm powerful and I'm strong it's just the part of life
just a part of life so what's something difficult or hard that you've done in the last 12 months or recently that you want to take a moment to just honor yourself for that is so nice I should honor myself I think you know learning that healing is messy that's something
that I'm dealing with and it comes and goes it's not always there but understanding that there's no time limit on healing and giving myself credit for healing and going through everything that I've been through and learning that I don't always have to act like
everything's okay if it's not I have a tendency to do that like it's one thing to not let people see you sweat which I do understand that and you don't need to put all your business on social media or whatever but it's okay to feel things and understand that healing is messy so
my mom sent me something recently that was like you know be kind to yourself give yourself Grace because healing is Messy as soon as you think like oh I'm done with that I'm over that all of a sudden it's like why is this still making me feel like that or you hear
something or see something and like why am I still a little bothered by that and I hear you talk about this you know there's no like time frame like okay once it's been two months you're done with whatever the difficult thing was you shouldn't even be thinking about it
anymore could be years and something can still pop up and Trigger you or whatever and being kind to yourself during those periods so I want to honor myself for just finally understanding healing is messy and not being so hard on myself on
certain things to not say you should have been done with that already why are you still thinking about that or why did that still bother you it's life we're human we have feelings things happen as you said when you walked in Life Is Life Life Is lifing Life is lifing and you
know there's so many blessings in this beautiful life and I'm blessed to have the life that I have and I'm constantly you know thanking God for this beautiful life and sometimes you feel ungrateful or like what do you have to complain about like you have a beautiful life
you're doing well might not have some of the financial troubles or issues that a lot of people are going through that I have had you know before in my life but it doesn't Shield you from feelings and going through things and I think a lot
of time people kind of confuse that yeah I think different platforms and different levels have different problems and they keep changing the problems you have today weren't the problems you had then and the problems you had then and not problems you have today I feel like
healing is an interesting word because everyone's looking at what happens on the outside but what do you think you're trying to heal on the inside like what what have you discovered about what you are trying to heal I think on the inside I'm just trying to heal a person who
probably has dealt with feelings of like abandonment a person who has dealt with feelings of not feeling good enough or definitely always having the questions of like why me why do this have to happen to me why me why did I have to go
through this I give so much good in the world I do so much for so many people like why do I have to suffer or go through what I feel like at times is some of the hardest things to go through but still keep a brave face still keep a smile so understanding that like I
really do believe when people say you know um that God gives his toughest battles to his strongest soldiers and I remind myself of that like you went through it because you could and you come out better and people can learn from you and this can help somebody else
and I just have to remind myself of those things because you do get caught up in the why me and like look at everyone else they have this they have that why me why am I you know whatever it is so just getting better at that I think yeah and when you talk to people
because I'm assuming that you know sometimes when we have that view of like oh they have it all or they have it all I'm sure you talk to people behind the scenes and realize they don't have it all right right and so then how does that make you feel when you realize oh
wait a minute they don't have it or yeah I mean it doesn't make me feel good I'm not wishing for anyone to be struggling or not happy but you just realize that things are just not always what they seem and you know in the world of social media in the world of just constantly
like looking at everyone else whether it's how they look their bodies or their lives and saying oh I wish that could be me it's like it's not reality you don't know what people are dealing with you don't know what people go home to you don't know what's happening on the
inside and sometimes you do know cuz you'll hear things or see things and you're like oh I thought this person had like the perfect life now out there whatever you know so it's just like really honing in on making yourself happy figuring out what it is that you
need and not comparing or always looking at something else because if we do that I just feel like you'll never be happy and you'll never be satisfied because there's always going to be somebody that looks better dresses better younger more
talented whatever it is like so if you're looking for a reason to knock yourself down you're gonna find it like it's not that hard you're gonna find it so you have to be whole within yourself and I am confident Within Myself I'm not insecure I'm confident and I do walk
with a certain level of confidence so that part I'm good at dealing with the kind of just like wow like why me do certain things happen to I'm still you know pushing through that and learning every day like life is about learning I don't think you're supposed to ever have
it all figured out you strike me as somebody that has it all figured out but you're learning every day and I think when we have these conversations you learn from us and vice versa like it's a constant learning experience yeah I'm constantly trying it's really
interesting isn't it when you are in a position of influence people often assume that you do have it all figured out right and I'm constantly I think people who listen to the podcast they know me very deeply and intimately because they hear me say I struggled
with this this week or this is something I'm going through but if someone just sees a post on social media they think oh yeah everything must be perfect and I find that I encourage everyone and this is why you coming on the podcast is so great because I encourage everyone to
study people they follow a bit deeper not to take them down or to think happy that they've got problems too not that reason but the reason of like when you really study someone or you get to know someone you start to realize we're all
actually in a much more similar place right it's so true and what I've learned in my journey of life is you start realizing no matter how much money how much status or whatever like my friends that I grew up with when I had you know nothing are going through similar issues
as friends of mine who have all the money in the world all the success All The People Are People what you deal with every day is what you deal with every day money status doesn't change that and I think we live in a society where people automatically assume money fixes
everything or influence fixes everything or fame fixes everything not understanding that there's so many amazing things that come with I'm not going to sit here and be like Oh being successful being famous being whatever is like the worst thing in the world I'm
not that person I'm so grateful for my success my fame my influence and I don't I don't I don't take it lightly but it doesn't mean that it protects me or stops me from dealing with other things and fame influence comes with other sets of problems you know people feeling like
they can criticize you people feeling like your life is an open book and they can say anything a lot of us when we go through things the whole world doesn't have to know about it when people like us go through things it's open for discussion for the whole world and
everyone has an opinion and that's not easy either so you just have to continue to kind of strengthen yourself to be able to deal with you know all of that that comes with it yeah I love what you said there like I've thought about that a lot too because you know last time you
came we were tracking your whole career Journey like you've done you've hustled you've worked hard you've done so much to get to where you are today and I want to get to that but for me as I've been on this journey I've been reflecting on
what's changed over time as my external Situation's changed and what makes me feel protected and you use that word protection and I've realized that of course we have to have our internal protection how we feel our our confidence our own practices but I found that the thing
that makes me feel the most protected is knowing the people around me who really know me and how much closer we get through that process like I have to take so much strength in the fact that the people around me not only do they have my back but they actually
know me and understand me at a core and I kind of take a lot of energy from that do you do the same I I take so much energy from that I'm like the people who know they know the people that I need to depend on they're always there I'm blessed to have an amazing family
amazing group of friends that are like ride or die that I know are there no matter what and it's something that I don't take lightly so it's not about proving to the world anything like if my core group gets it knows me inside and out knows my UPS knows my downs and are
there for me that's the energy I pull from as well I want to talk to about friendship I think a lot of people feel quite even when you're close friends and I'm sure you felt this it's hard to open up about things that are going wrong in
your life and I think a lot of people are listening or watching that's something that they can relate to where it's like I have my friends but I don't know how to tell them right that I'm going through this or I know they'd care about me but I don't want them to feel
sorry for me or maybe they're going through so much stuff that I don't want to put my stuff on them how have you managed to keep strong relationships as you've grown in life as you've built your career how have you managed to keep that core instead of losing it as you get more busy I think
that my friendships have gotten even stronger because of those moments I don't base my friendships off of you know this person has only been around when everything's been great or we only talk about sunshine and flowers and cupcakes like friends have to be there
through everything and you have to be able to be okay with being raw and real with people that you consider your friend and don't throw that word around lightly if you're saying this is my friend this is my go-to you should be able to share whatever is happening in
your life whether it's good or bad and those are the things that Bond you you know through those I remember the friends that were there for me when I was going through my divorce when I was publicly you know going through what I was going through as a result of what
happened in my marriage like I remember my friends that were there I remember when my son was really young and had to have surgery and who was there in that moment like I remember all of that and those were the strengthening moments of our friendship now the fun stuff is
great too I remember my friends who've been on vacation with me and got drunk and had a great time but it's a balance you know the real friendships had a mix of all of that stuff because that's what life is life is not always just fun in
games life is up and down and up and down that that's that's what life is was there anything that a friend said to you or guidance you heard when you were going through a divorce that really helped or that really stayed with you or that you kind of carry around in your
heart just not to blame myself you know this isn't your fault not to blame myself that always kind of stuck with me because it's easy to just blame yourself or get down on yourself or what was it you know that I did and when I say not blaming yourself I'm not saying don't
take accountability for whatever you might have had to do with the situation like it's important to sit back and say okay where could I have been better because life is about being better and learning you don't want to just say oh
this happened it had nothing to do with me you want to understand like where could I have done better or where did maybe I fall short on some things but that's different than blaming yourself for what happened and I think by taking accountability I was able to grow and
become a better person for whatever happens in my life in the future you don't go through these experiences not to learn then what was the point like you don't go through these experiences to then duplicate the same issues in your next relationship or your next
marriage or or whatever it is that's not what that was there for it was to learn to get better and then to apply that knowledge to the next situation whether it's a friendship relationship marriage whatever it is I love what you brought out there and I want everyone to just
take note of that because I think we think we either have to take full responsibility or no responsibility so we either blame the other person or we blame ourselves and it's only either or and the truth is it's so much more balanced where it's like I don't want to
blame myself and beat myself up because that's going to set me down a ter yeah terrible spiral at the same time I'm not going to sit here and just blame everything on the other person because that's not true and there's accountability on both sides and so let
me look at how can I be better but how can I not beat myself up what is it that you think you learned or what about you do you think has become better or healed or what have you worked on because of that shift in your life um just a balance you know understanding balance
I'm such a career-driven work driven person that that could just take over my life and that becomes what's you know the most important to me outside of my son there's never been anything that's is more important than cayenne and you know this you just get caught up in the
work and next thing you know friends or Partners or whatever are feeling neglected or like I just feel like you never have time or you're not making them feel special in their you know moments and and being there for them because it's like you got to film one
more podcast I got to go to set I got to film one more episode I got to go do this really fast but it'll be quick and I'll come right back you know and then you realize when people friends as well are feeling like neglected in those departments problems can happen that you
start looking for other ways to fulfill that void and that that need and that's how things happen so again it's not blaming myself but just being aware of things that happen and and finding that that balance and getting better at that balance and I need to balance Jay for
myself it's not even for a partner for myself because I should be okay with having a personal life and a professional life and not feel guilty I was the person that if I went on a vacation I felt guilty like I got to work I can't be doing this like I don't
want people to think I'm just having a good time I should be on set I should be doing and like really beating myself up meanwhile I work my ass off I should be able to take a vacation if I want to take a month off I should be able to do that I've worked I've been in this
industry since I was 16 years old I should be able to do that I have enough equity in the game with all I've given it to be able to do that but I still would feel so guilty over that so that's the balance that I'm talking about yeah no I I'm really glad that you went that
step further of like it's giving yourself to your friends a potential partner but also to yourself what do you think it was for you that blocked you from giving yourself that permission and the reason I asked that is because I was looking at the studies in the US and it
was saying how so many people don't take all of their leave from work like most people are not taking their leave and there's not even that much leave in the US to take so when I was in the UK you get like 30 days off a year wow and like
I think here yeah and here it's not that many and so when I moved here and I remember looking at that and I was thinking wow and still people aren't taking time off I think that's something people can relate to that a lot of people struggle to think well maybe when
I come back I'll have so many more emails oh my God I'm going to be so behind oh my gosh I won't get promoted this year oh my gosh I might get let go I'm competing with this person I may become irrelevant I have to stay on top of stuff what was it for you that kind
of do you think stopped you from giving yourself permission to have a balance definitely a fear and you and I always talk about fear a fear of someone's going to come and take my job or someone's going to come and take my place or I used to take so much pride in
being like you know even if I'm not the most talented I'm the hardest worker no one can outwork me and that was like my badge of honor like I will outwork everyone until you're burnt out and you don't have anything else to give and then what they move on to the next
person anyway so it's like you have to take care of yourself and I had to learn that because I would just go until I couldn't go anymore and then not have anything to give to anyone because I didn't have that balance but that was all because of fear and not also
believing in myself enough to say I'm enough and if someone is able to just come and take this from me it was never mind to begin with and really being okay with that um but I just think we well I grew up in in a world where it's so competitive and it's like you know you
can't take your foot off the gas as soon as you do it somebody else is coming or don't even give you know somebody else a chance to take your spot whatever that even means but that's the culture I grew up in and what I was condition and
brainwashed to always believe so it was like go till you can't go anymore and now I'm like I'm not doing that anymore have I reached a place where I found the perfect balance no but I am getting better at it I just told you I took a trip I was at a couple different places
prior to that I took Cayenne to the Cayman Islands and we had a great time and I felt happy I felt not guilty for doing that and I felt okay with posting about it not thinking like oh they're going to think this girl she's always on vacation or something like that I felt
good about there cuz I deserve it and I need to do that absolutely absolutely and I love hearing the the practical ways in which it's actually taking part it's really interesting it's so much about like what we get our significance from like what makes us feel worthy and
for some of us it's overworking for some of us it's overgiving for some of us it's oversharing and it's like what makes you feel worthy today what makes you feel worthy and happy today definitely my son like he makes me so happy because you start start really
seeing the influence you have over your child at a certain age where it's like wow everything I've taught him or things I've tried to drill in his head now I'm seeing it actually come to for wishing or he's repeating things to me that I'm like oh he was listening to me when I
said that or he is following my guidance or advice you know he's 16 years old now and he's making a career in a lane for himself in basketball and you know he's doing so well but I just see how humble he is how kind he is how he is all about
you know giving back to the community and all the things that are so important to me now I'm just seeing him take on all of that same stuff and that makes me so happy because I feel like you know I did a great job and it's not like I'm done being a parent but I did a great
job thus far of being a parent and never allowing whatever was happening in my life or to affect my parenting or AFF how I was with you know my child that's something that makes me happy and something I'm really proud of cuz that's noty easy you know to deal with
day-to-day life and ups and downs and then come home and be you know there for your child and and and be willing to just listen to their needs and what they have going on that's not easy what's been the biggest thing you think he's taught you definitely patience everyone
says like you don't experience love till you have a child and you're like what does that really mean like I know what it's like to love someone but it definitely is a different kind of love so just unconditional love patience and you know I always say that my son is
my best friend now it's interesting because people say that and I don't know if you've read about this J I'm curious to know your take people will say that your children should not be your best friend that you should be a parent and your child should not be your best
friend I'm on the other side of it my son is my best friend and I'm still able to be a parent and have him as my best friend and best friend I mean I spent more time with my son than anyone else I live with my child so he's the person I live He's my roommate essentially and
knows me in every shape and form the Happy Days the sad days everything and there's nothing I don't feel like we can talk about on his side on my side to me those are all the qualities of a best friend do I still parent him and discipline him and of course I do but
there's a lot of I read a lot of talk about that and sometimes when I write like hanging with my best friends like a your son shouldn't be your best friend like you should just be a parent that's the problem these days parents trying to
be their kids friends and this and that I Come From a Different yeah I I mean I call I'm obviously I'm not a parent so I can't answer it from that perspective but if I think about it with my parents I would say at this point I'm good friends with my parents I would say I
wish we were best friends growing up okay and I felt that I was parented which made me actually not tell them stuff and and keep secrets and do my own thing and not really have that open relationship with them which I wish I think would have been healthier for me
and for them and now I'm glad that it's evolved to where it has but I agree I would have liked to have been friendlier with my parents when I was younger because I think I could have avoided a lot of the mistakes I made had I had that relationship with them and felt
comfortable talking to them about certain yeah I was always scared to tell them anything to get in trouble exactly and so and and I don't think that that was a healthy feeling as a child of oh I'm going to get into trouble if I do not as a child as a teenager right uh
when I was a child I was obedient anyway but when I was a teenager it's like I think that's the age if you can be friends with your old that's pretty dope because and being friends Jay doesn't mean he doesn't get in trouble because if he does something wrong he gets in
trouble or you know I have to sit down and taught him but I think it's the approach and the way because sometimes just yelling or it's not effective at least from what I've seen with other people parenting you know and I don't judge anyone's parenting but yelling
screaming like they're not hearing you so sometimes just having an honest conversation on why you shouldn't have done that or why that was wrong for me that gets me further than like what are you thinking why like they they're blocking you out they're not hearing you
anyway I actually went through something like that the other day so I bumped into someone and I was talking to their teenager he was probably like maybe like 14 15 okay and his mom was like behind me like telling him what to ask me and it was almost like she was making it out
like he wouldn't ask good questions right like not giving him the opportunity yeah and the thing is he was actually asking really smart questions and I was like really engaged but I could see that kept distracting him and he kept being like Mom just I'm I'm
talking I got it I got it right and it was just really and I'd look back and and I'd smile I'd be like he's cool like you know it's all right and it was just really interesting to me like she didn't trust that she'd actually been an
amazing parent right and taught him well and put him in a situation where he can handle him yeah and he was doing great and I and I turned I said to her afterwards I was like I just want you to know like you must have raised your son really well because he was so present he
asked me I was so impressed by a 15-year-old asking those kind of questions like I wanted her to know that too because I guess guil and reflecting and like kind of feeling like it's never good enough must be a big part of what you carry too yeah for sure that's a
real thing you know Mom guilt and just everything you just said is is just so real because again we get in a habit of beating ourselves up for everything so it's like blaming ourselves for everything so you know my son's like this because of whatever so it is nice
when I always say the biggest compliment I've ever heard is when people tell me your son's so well-mannered he's so humble he's so down or if he cares about people like that makes me feel better than anything any award any any you know high-rated TV show what a movie anything
like someone to tell me that my kid is kind and humble and well-mannered that's like the best thing I could ever hear yeah that's beautiful I love hearing that and I I want to talk about your career cuz last time you came we kind of did a a full like biography of like all
the jobs and like how you started we talked about your first job and how you broke through what about you're a driven ambitious person still despite everything you've achieved what is that drive pursuing today like what does that look like right now I'm always trying to
figure out what my next thing is um I'm always working extremely hard I think I still am close enough to remember what not having felt like to continue to push myself the way I do I'm not that far removed from remembering what that felt
like and it lives in me and it's close to me so I'm like I don't like that I don't want to go back there so that's the motivation and the drive to continue to push forward and I enjoy it like I like working I mean my mom tells me all the time like you don't think you should
just like take a break and I'm like Mom I like working some people like other things I like working some people you know rather be at home and do certain things which is fine everyone has a different motivation I like working that brings me happiness that brings me joy
so I push myself in that in that department but for me I'm always trying to see what's next right now you know I'm I'm heavy in the acting space producing space really big on my prison reform charity which takes up a lot of my time and you know giving back in that
way is so important to me so those are kind of where my immediate focuses are right now but there's always so many things you know happening with the acting and production like what part of it right now do you feel most immersed and in love with because you've done
both for a while now it's like what's the project that's kind of like bringing you alive right now so you know just finding projects that I'm interested in producing is so amazing because you can now bring something that you love to life and you can be in control of that
IP or whatever it is and bring it to life so producing just puts you in control for so long as an actor you're waiting for someone else to give you an opportunity you're auditioning with 10 other girls that look very similar to you and just hoping that hey pick me
pick me I'm the right person for the role and nine times out of 10 you never you don't get picked I mean you get those lucky times but for the most part you don't get you don't always get picked so by producing you're not waiting now you're creating and you're
also putting yourself in a position to create jobs and opportunities for other people and that's what I'm about opening the doors for other people to come in and you know have these experiences and be able to give them you know a piece of what I have going on so that's what I
love about producing and just going out there and finding projects that mean something to me and it's not always about like oh I want to produ this cuz I want it to be huge success of course you want things you do to be a huge success
but sometimes you want to do it for you like this I'm passionate about this I want to tell this story and whoever gets it gets it maybe this is not the billion dollar hit or whatever maybe this is just for a small group of people that are into this but that matters to me so
it that's what gets me excited from the producing standpoint and acting I'm I am on a show so it's great to just have steady work and I love you know the people I work with I love the show I'm a part of um it's it's incredible and it's
nice to just always have that kind of in the stash yeah absolutely you you spoke about rejection there again another thing I think people relate to whether they're auditioning applying for jobs like it's one of those things that we all face in life in different Realms and
I think people often think that when you get to a certain level of success you don't get rejection anymore true how does that feel like after having had you I don't know how many auditions you must have done more than I could ever count right like how many like taped auditions
like in person in person signing the contract before thinking that I definitely had the job just to find out that they're not going with me I mean I've had everything happen to me does it get easier and how do you react to rejection differently today than you did
16 years ago so today I realized that most of the time it has nothing to do with you there's so many other factors and now being on the producing side I see the other factors could be anything could be height just could be how you you stand next to your co-star could be
a million things that are out of your control is not a decision based on you weren't good enough or you weren't talented enough and once I realized that I got better with dealing with it and also being happy and grateful for the person who did get the job cuz for
whatever reason they were the right person for that job not feeling like oh why they give it to them and not me like actually leading with Grace and kindness and realizing that because I started doing that more good things started happening for me but in the beginning it
was like like oh they don't like me oh I didn't do a good job oh they think I suck I shouldn't be doing this like I was ready to give up on acting a hundred times I was like clearly this is the one thing that's never going to happen for
me like I had to have one thing that just wasn't going to go this is it but I just kept being persistent kept learning kept getting better and then realizing now a lot of the decisions are not based on Talent there's just so many other factors when my videos were first seen
like seven years ago around a year later a TV production company had reached out and said we want to make a TV show about your work right and I was like this is so cool I never imagined in a million years that that would even be possible
and so we we made the deck we went and like pitched it all these companies and it was really interesting because no one took the show I was really passionate about the idea we' created I thought it was really cool and different and no one cared like it didn't even go beyond the
first meeting like from the first meeting I was like we're not sure and it's really interesting to me because I was talking about this with a friend a couple of weeks ago and I was saying that one thing that happened was it built a number of long-term friendships
so everyone I met at those pictures not everyone but some of the people have become long-term friends that I actually still see now socially even though we never did anything professional so there was a massive win the other thing was it
gave me a great experience of what that process is like I'd never done it before and now I actually understand what that looks like and it was a complete learning curve but the third one which is the best one is I often say to people had I had been given that show I
potentially may never have started this podcast I potentially may never have written my book I potentially may never have gone on tour this year because I wouldn't have had this opportunity to have to build my own work that's so true that's what I want to remind people is
like just trust in the timing as long as you're moving forward that's it and I think that's the mistake that we often make is that our disappointment slows us down or like our feeling of failure forces us to just switch off yeah and instead when you're moving shifting
figuring things out discovering anything's possible yeah it's so true and it's funny because on our last podcast the I'm say it's been years and you said that clip is still viral but we talk about fear and we always say that people stop because they're disappointed
or fear right before something great is going to happen like you stop and don't even realize right past that if you push past that feeling if you push past that amazing things are going to happen and because of our talk I realized how much that resonated with people like don't
let the fear and disappointment stop you because you don't know what's going to happen after that let it build you let it build your character let it build your armor to be strong to go through these things so that you can keep like you said as long as you're moving
forward it's just so important what What Fear are you trying to push forward from right now in your life I'm such a people pleaser and I've always wanted to even as a young kid I've always wanted to be liked by everyone I was that person like
I wanted everybody to be my friend and it's funny because people say all the time oh LA's friends with everybody everybody loves la la which is great I don't think everybody loves me but that's great but also being okay with understanding that you'll never be able
to please everyone especially in this day and age of we talked about social media everyone now having a platform to comment to tell you what you're doing wrong and speak about who you are as a person people that don't don't even know you there was a time where that would
have really rattled me and bothered me because it's like well you don't even know me you never even had a conversation with me if you knew me you would love me you would see I'm this type person now it's like I'm secure in myself like so I'm continuing to push
through that fear of wanting to be liked or the fear of someone not liking me I should say that the fear of someone not liking me I've gotten so much better at that and just embracing the people that love me and care about me another thing my mom's always told me I I quote my mom
a lot she's she's a very smart person another thing my mom always told me is s celebrate the people that are there you you know you can have a party or a get together and the first thing you'll say is well why didn't so and so come yeah damn I invited so and so why aren't they
here you're not even acknowledging the 10 15 20 people that came to support you on your birthday or whatever the occasion was well damn I invited so and so they didn't even come like I always remind myself of that celebrate the people who are there for your moments
who want to be there with you and stop worrying about the person who wasn't there same thing with comments everyone Jay we love you you're the greatest we listen to everything that one person who's like Jay what the hell are you talking about you don't know what you're
talking you're like zooming in on that want to find out you want to respond you want to go to their page see how they look and all but you just had a thousand comments about how wonderful you are and that want to just throw people off I've
just gotten so much better at that I won't give somebody that much power over me and again I want to celebrate the people who are celebrating me that's what I'm getting better at yeah no I love that you said I I literally it was a habit that I used to have where you'd
see all these good reviews or good comments and you would literally just scroll past them just waiting for the negative one and I've CH true lit right like you're just you're treating the good ones like oh yeah sure of course I don't you don't really mean that and
then when someone says something bad and I've trained myself now like I genuinely do this and I talk about in the podcast a lot I will sit there and I will read a positive review I'll read a comment a positive comment and I'll let it sit
here it's so important and I'll just let it sit there and I'll let myself accept it because for so long I just tried to like not let myself accept it and I don't mean Let It Go to your head I mean like feel it in your heart like someone felt like telling you that your work or
your words or whatever it was your life or that clip of you on the last podcast like that that made a difference in their lives let that just let yourself receive that and I wish all of us would allow ourselves to receive love as seriously as we receive hate it's so
true when you see hate you don't think that might not be true you just accept that it must be true whereas when you see love you think oh yeah they didn't really mean that oh it probably isn't that real right it's so interesting how we second and it's interesting because
we'll believe that hate is true from someone who doesn't even know us yeah this is coming from someone who never had a conversation with you who knows nothing about you so it's like it's it's the wrong way to think but you had to train yourself to think differently I
had to train myself to think different for me A lot of times it's better for me just not to read anything because I still can get hyperfocus on so I don't I don't really get caught up in that I get caught up in more like when people stop
me and say you know love you L thanks for this or whatever it is those are my genuine you know moments and I do still sometimes you know take a peek but I don't go too deep that's safer I but I don't I don't I don't go too deep I think that's safer and and of and
sometimes when I see criticism I'll also allow myself if I'm in a good space cuz I agree with you like what I'm sharing is when you're in a good space if you're really struggling with it just turn it off and get away from it I'm fully with you but if I am in a good place I'll
look at criticism and I'll say let me take the feedback and leave the criticism like how do I do that like how do I listen to this allow it in but then leave the part that that is kind of the Venom in it or the spite or the ferociousness like take that out and
take the feedback because there could be something for me to learn and I'm open constructive the constructive part criticism I do understand that I don't think all of us are there yet neither am I I'm just I'm just I'm trying yeah exactly we're we're trying and and a lot
of us you know are still struggling with understanding what being love feels like or never being loved growing up you know I work with so many people through my charity and just people I know who you realize some of the basic principles of
just love they've never experienced and don't understand what that is but they do understand hate being told you're not good enough being ignored not being paid attention to so they gravitate more to that because that's what they're used to so it's just about changing the
narrative and I talk about that with you know the group that I work with through through my charity 360 all the time is like changing the narrative changing those negative thoughts into positive thoughts so those that's really important what got you involved in the
prison reform work and what is the thing that you think would surprise us to learn about it because you've actually spent you're working with people it's your charity it's your project what do you think would surprise us I think that people would be surprised how simply
changing a person's environment and simply loving someone can be all you need to actually see a complete change in a person telling someone you love them telling someone you're proud of them is sometimes enough to just completely change a person and realizing
that those simple words a lot of people have never even heard before it's mindblowing that I'll sit with the young men in my program I mostly work with young men ages 18 to 21 and they will tell me they've never heard someone say I love you before they've never heard
definitely never heard someone say I'm proud of you what have I ever done to for someone to be proud of me or definitely just never knew what feeling important to somebody was and when they start feeling that the change you see in them when I put them in situations
whether it's jobs or things to thrive like how amazing they've been doing just because the environment is different you can love somebody all you want and then put them back in that same toxic you know dysfunctional environment and then like well why are they acting like this
they shouldn't be acting like this why are they being a menace to society I mean but we wouldn't last one day in a household like that you know and just being compassionate so love and a changing environment are like two of the key things that I've seen where I've
seen the most success and the most change for sure yeah that is that that is fascinating and how do you get like I guess the external perception is everyone would be quite hard in prison and be quite cold how do you have a conversation about love and compassion
and empathy with someone who hasn't had it before like how do you even start that conversation because I think the perception would be they'd just be like I don't need to be loved like there'd be a certain like kind of Shield to it is that real is that true or do you find
it's quite easy to talk when I first come in it's not easy there's like if it's a new group it's kind of the Stone Face mean yeah yeah we know la la but what she what she going to talk to us about but it's really just having real authentic conversations when you talk to
somebody Jay you just have that talent to where they know you're speaking from a genuine place when you talk to me I'm like I got to listen to what Jay's saying like I got what what would Jay doing the situation you just have that so it's like when you're speaking from
your heart and you're leading with love people feel that even the hardest people feel that because at everyone's core what do we want we want to be loved everyone wants to be Lov whether they've experienced or not at everyone's core they want to be loved so I'm going to
hit you in that place that just wants to be loved and I'm also going to make you understand that I understand what you've been through I understand why you may have made some of these choices and guess what I'm not judging you but I'm pushing you to do better and that's how
I kind of run my group and what we talk about and once they hear that and feel that it just melts away they just want to hug they just want you to tell them you love them they just want to sit down and have some food with you it just like
melts away and it's it's emotional it's incredible to see and I wish that more people could be involved in the work and see this instead of just you know writing certain people off because of whatever they've been through because one thing I always say is hey these guys
in my program are not going anywhere so you got two choices they can either be an asset to our communities or they can be a problem which one do you want cuz they're not going anywhere so I rather mold them and work with them to be assets and great fathers and great
Community leaders and great workers in our community then be a problem and sometimes all they really need is to feel supported and to feel loved that's been my experience for sure what Drew you to that work specifically I mean you could have started something about
anything in the world why what was it deeply inside of you that was like this is where I want to put my energy and efforts I think just just growing up that's always been a part of life like knowing someone who's in jail seeing different things but feeling helpless
like what can I do I can just go visit write a letter here and there I'm not in a position to do anything you would see things that you wanted to change but feel helpless and now I'm I'm in a position where I can actually make change you know I can actually use my
voice and my platform to make a change and help people I care about who are still incarcerated or people who have been incarcerated you know help them change their experience and provide them with different things that people before us didn't have so I'm going to use my
platform for that and also as a mom of a 16-year-old a young black man I understand you know how all of us are one decision or one bad moment away from being any of the kids that I deal with who are incarcerated right now how many of my kids was just wrong place at the
wrong time hanging with with the wrong crowd we can relate to that I have a son like he could be at the wrong place at the wrong time trying to be cool running with a certain group of kids anything can happen so I'm sympathetic to that
and I think that's where I draw my inspiration from to want to do the work did you see the lack of support like breaking families like did it how how bad did it get it got bad it got bad I saw it it it got bad I had you know one of the closest people to me mother was
incarcerated for many many years just seeing what it was like for him to grow up without his mom you know being there she was there in every way but she was incarcerated she was an amazing she is an amazing mother but she was incarcerated and just watching what what
that felt like and feeling like there's got to be a way to still hold the family bonds even with this going on so just seeing things and like this doesn't make sense or this is supposed to be a rehabilitation but there's no Rehabilitation going on where are the
programs where are things so that people can come out and not do the same mistakes or be better equipped to make better decisions like what are we doing and now again being in a position I would see all of that but again feel helpless like what am I going to do I
can't do anything all I could do is go visit on the visiting days buy some food out the vending machine and call it a day like what am I going to do but now I can do something so it's just what I've become so passionate about and when I look at the young men in my program I
always say I speak to them and look at them the same way I talk talked to Cayenne my son who's 16 years old because they're 18 they're two years away from cayenne and dealing with some of the same struggles and issues that I see Cayenne goes through you know
insecure trying to fit in trying to be the cool kid you know all of these things that you know sometimes can lead to bad decisions and and trouble if you don't have strong family and strong support and they don't have that yeah could you tell us maybe some of the
stories that you've seen of people you know coming back into society and some of the moments where you're like wow this is like it's inspiring and forgiving yeah so I did I had a kid in my program his name is Rondo and while he was incarcerated I bought someone who
worked for reform Alliance which is founded by Michael Rubin Meek Mill Jay-Z I had Jessica Jackson who works really close with with Kim um Kardashian so they came and they visited and Rondo just stood out to them and I remember Jessica telling him when you get out I'm
going to have a job for you you really have blew me away won me over and they waited and waited for him to come out when he came out he came out like on a Thursday I was at the court when they released him he came out on Thursday he was in that office on Monday starting
his job working so hard and now when you see this kid Jay it's unbelievable he's traveled the whole country he's spoken on platforms with Kim who's my best friend obviously so I'm like Kim and Rondo side by side talking about prison reform him speaking to the the Gen Z
population about you know what needs to be done his experience is I'm just mind blowing I found this kid in Riker's Island fighting you know dealing with so many different things and now he's side by side with Kim and Michael Rubin not
too long ago I'm like he's at Michael rubin's house like hosting a panel and different it's just it's mind-blowing and what was it opportunity change of environment love that made the change and we have others you know that are following in the same path but it's
amazing to see it's like it makes you just feel like it's all worth it like you just like everything I'm doing is worth it yeah that's beautiful thank you so much for sharing that with us I think it's it's hard sometimes to you know connect the dots I was talking to I
think you probably know Scott as well Scott Budnick I Scott I was dinner at Scott like a couple of weeks ago and so passion and for those of people who don't know Scott made the three hangover movies but then also made just Mercy yeah you know that movie for him was all
about prison reform and changing the narrative and trying to give people an opportunity and rethinking you know how we feel about people and and how we how we treat people who've made certain decisions and it's so phenomenal to hear that so many people
also all of you are collaborating yeah for sure in order to do this for sure you can't do this type of work Al J you need a support system and my charity again is 360 and I'm so happy to have reform Alliance as a partner who really guide me and help me because I'm new to
the space I'm not new to the experience but I'm new to the space and just learning and navigating and them just really holding my hand through the whole thing has been great you can't do it you know alone but it's a challenging space
but such a rewarding space at the same time yeah Lala what's you know you've had such a career in the public eye life in the public eye what's something about you that you think people don't know that you'd you'd love them to know people around me always say like people
don't know how funny you are like I'm joking around all the time like I'm always up for having a good time like I want to be the life of the party and I love seeing everyone around have a good time those are some things like I'm just learning to just enjoy you know life and
and the new chapter in my life you know it still is new coming from you know being married not anymore and just like what does that look like and that's what I said you know you can't put a time frame on things people would think oh by now she would already be in another
relationship or be married again or whatever and none of that has happened yet and I'm okay with that I'm just going with the flow and whichever way life takes me I'm just I'm just going that way and just understanding that everything happens when it's supposed to
not rushing things just enjoying the moment yeah I definitely found your humor came through when I first met you and I was just cracking up everything you saying and I was just like you know it's you you definitely feel that when you meet someone and it's it's
interesting because yeah I feel like people say the same when I'm when I'm on stage or when I'm in person I'm hopefully a lot funnier than I am on my social media page when I'm with my wife I'm definitely funnier cuz I'm borrowing from her cuz she's hilarious right but
it's so hard transitioning and it's so hard transitioning in the public eye because it's almost like you have all these opinions it's you have other people's narratives you're still trying to figure things out yourself and it's almost like I almost liking it I always
say to people imagine you're going through something and everyone in your family everyone in your friend circle is talking about it and everyone has their version that's what you're experiencing at a news level or a World level right
and and that's very difficult when you are either in that space yourself or you have friends in that space and you see how challenging it is and you're saying you're trying to enjoy the moment and and you haven't obviously like you're saying you haven't just moved on and
it's not as easy is the hardest thing about it that you thought life was going a certain way and then it didn't is that the hardest thing about it that's the hardest thing you don't get married to get divorced nobody gets married and says I'm getting divorced you get
married because you feel like you found your person and this is what the rest of your life is going to be like and you start building a with this person and then something changes that you weren't prepared for that you don't have the
tools and skills to no one's going to prepare you for a divorce you're married right now Jay nobody's telling you Jay come sit down let me tell you what's going to happen when you get divorced nobody nobody's doing that we're wishing you and your wife the best to ride off
into the sunset forever together so you're not equipped with the knowledge and the tools on what to do emotionally or anything when that happens and then you just find yourself in a position to just figure it out so that's that's really difficult and Life For Me looks
different right now and I still have those moments where I can be at home and I'm like you could never tell me that this would be my life right now and I'm not saying that's a bad thing I love my life right now but you know owning a home by by myself my son and I you know
living together then on certain days him going to stay with his dad and then I'm home alone and it's still a family but separate in a sense you know and just okay well what time you coming home to like you could have never told me that that was going to be my life but what
can I do I have to adjust like I have to adjust and be strong and figure out what the new Norm is this is my new normal and I just had to adjust to it was it easy of course not and are there still days where it can hit you and and be really hard yeah and I want to be honest
and tell people that because it's been a while for me and you would really think that by now like that's something I never think about anymore of course I do had a family like a beautiful family and now I still have a family but it's just looks a little bit different and I'm
okay with that but it's still your moments where you're like wow this is this is different yeah absolutely and and I guess it sounds like both of you have been able to be there for cayenne so that he's having yeah the co-parenting is strong with us and
that's something I'm very grateful for because whatever happened between me and his dad I don't feel like Cayenne should have to suffer because of that so we try to do a good job at co-parenting and still you know leading with love and and
kids are going to be a reflection of what they see like I could tell him all day oh you know no me and your dad but if he sees us arguing all the time or never around each other then it doesn't matter what I say but we make it a point for him to see us getting along and both
being there for his moments his basketball games his school plays you know parent teacher conference whatever it is so he always feels supported because one day cen's going to have a family and I want him to understand you know what having a family means and even
though mom and dad might not have been able to figure it out in the traditional way we still you and my hope is that he can do better than we did and you know what it is what's really interesting about that is I don't know anyone whose life is actually traditional in the
traditional way like even even people who stayed together forever like I don't know it's so interesting right like how we have these stereotypes and these views of like what a healthy successful relationship looks like between a family people friendships like my relationship
with my parents is very different to what I would consider the traditional perfect relationship with your parents because I just that wasn't our way and and it's so interesting because you kind of almost always make yourself feel guilty or shamed for not having the
traditional thing but then when I actually think of like who has the traditional setup I don't no has it and I think the more you go through life you start understanding and realizing that and now my saying is like whatever works for them like whatever like who am I to
judge and say it shouldn't be this way it should only be this way I mean nothing nothing is traditional anymore people just have to figure out what works for them and what that looks like for them like if it works for you that's what matters because at the end of the
day I always say when you're going through something when you're down when you're depressed more times than not you're dealing with that alone you have your friend support but I'm saying in those critical moments when you're in that bathroom looking in that mirror and
you're crying and going through stuff you're going through that alone so make decisions that make you happy and not worrying about what everybody else is going to say or how people are going to view me because in those Quiet Moments You Are by yourself and you have to face
yourself whatever that looks like and I had to learn that because again the people please earn me what is this one going to say or is this one going to be mad if I do this I got to make this one happy and it was always about everybody
else and putting myself last and then when I when my whole you know marriage came crumbling down and I was in that bed I was there by myself and I had to deal with that by myself yeah that's the truth what is being loved by yourself and someone else look like now for you
what have you learned about how you want to be loved by yourself and potentially by anyone else um words hold so much power getting better at like speaking nicely to myself being kind not that I used to just like beat myself up and say negative things but like wow look how
much you've accomplished look how many people you've helped look at the son you've raised like you've done really really good in the public eye you've never like just crumbled and fell apart you were able to keep it together you went through something that would break
most people like what I went through would have broken a lot of people and I handled it with as much grace as I possibly could and afterwards I it didn't make me change how I feel about like love I don't know if marriage is stilling the cards for me it's kind of
changed my perception on that one of my friends was like you cannot go on podcast and say you're never getting married again I'm like so I'm open I'm just saying that I don't know if that's in the cards but I'm being open to whatever happens and being loved by
somebody else at this point to me is just really aligning with somebody that makes me feel happy makes me feel like I can be myself and somebody who I just enjoy being around it's not like I'm looking for someone to take care of me it's not like I'm looking for a father
for my son and we have all of those things now it's about how are you connecting with with me how are you making me feel and I get a excited when I think that or believe that that person is out there somewhere and who is it going to be like and when are they going
to come find me like you know I get excited about those things because who doesn't want that in their life I don't think you're meant to just go through life alone like who doesn't want that there's so much of what you've said today which is so relatable to so many
so like connected to so many people's hearts when you bring it out of me Jay you just make it so comfortable and I just I mean I follow you I follow your words your podcast I'm on your page all the time I'm always looking for quotes
from your page but there's sometimes I got to be careful cuz I'm like if I post this quote they're going to think I'm talking about so so like I'm always like cuz some of your quotes are just so spot on I'm like that's exactly what I was thinking so I'm always going to your
page finding quotes I have a million screenshots of your quotes in my phone but just thank you for being there for all of us in the way that you are and just making everybody feel so comfortable and loved and you know I I I've read your book I follow what you
say in some of my hard moments I refer to your podcast and different things and it just really helps me so I just appreciate that you're just going to pick up the phone yes I got to pick I don't want to bother you yeah just call okay so then I I'll pick up the phone no
I I just really really really believe that if we just look at the essence of the humanness in everyone that we meet and you just realize like everyone is so beautiful and wonderful and powerful and phenomenal but we just we've missed it
because we've all been covered over right by everything else and even that person may not be able to see that in themselves and I just I try and see people through the eyes that I hope one day they'll be able to see themselves through and that's my only goal really
in in how I try and live I don't want to live to to judge or criticize or compare or be better than anyone or holier than anyone like it's if if we could all just look at each other as equals like true equals because we are at our Essence we're exactly the same every single
person every single animal being on this planet is exactly the same in the essence in the pure sense of it all and I think all we can do for each other is provide a safe space the world's hard enough anyway it's so hard it's all hard it's all hard enough anyway so thank you
for saying those kind words but thank you for always opening your heart with me opening your mind and I know this is going to help so many people who listen to it is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wanted to share that we always give
in this it's like we get right to it I think we hit on so many points and I just hope anyone listening watching can take something away from this I'm not perfect I've been through a lot still figuring life out I don't think you ever just have it figured out and just be
kind to yourself be patient with yourself love yourself it is so important and definitely one thing we talked about is you know don't blame yourself you know we're all doing the best we can with what we have no you can hear that your voice it's it's not even
today it's not just about what you've said it's like you can hear that genuiness and that sincerity in your voice it's like I think it's really going to land with people so I hope everyone listens to this not once but twice yes same twice and everyone who's
listening and watching make sure that you cut the I know you guys do a great job cutting stuff with Tik Tok yourself Instagram like cut the stuff that really resonated with you that connected with you and share it with someone because I'm sure you've got friends who are
going through breakups maybe they're going through a divorce maybe they're raising a kid on their own maybe you know know everything that L is going through there are so many things that I know so many of you are connected to in your ecosystems in your lives and I hope
that you'll clip the bits that stand out to you that connect to you and I hope you'll share it with others because sometimes we just need to feel seen heard and understood and I think today a lot of people will feel seen heard and understood so thank you Jay thank you
love you appreciate thank you so much thank you pick up the phone I will I promise you have to I will I mean it if you love this episode episode you will also love my interview with Kendall Jenner on setting boundaries to increase happiness and healing your inner child
you could be reading something that someone is saying about you and being like that is so unfair cuz that's not who I am and that really gets to me sometimes but then looking at myself in the mirror and being like but I know who I am why does anything else matter