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I learned on this stage to stand. Stand with me.
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I learned that there's nothing to stop a performer.
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You know, when I was a kid, jumped into the crowd.
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That's what we've been trying to do all the time is is connect.
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The showman gives you front row to his heart.
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The showman prays, his heartache will chime.
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It's not physical proximity, it's emotional proximity.
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Can you be honest with these people?
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And then just occasionally just the threat, the threat that you can be in their face or they in yours.
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That's where we started from in our band.
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So I will go back to you too with with with a different feeling. What's up? How are you, baby?
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You saying coming out to play? Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. Wouldn't miss it. Never do. How you doing? Oh, so good to see you.
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Good to see you, too, man. I love the film, man.
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It's funny cuz when it started, I was like, I was so lost cuz I was like, what am I going to experience here?
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because it was you as I've seen you but not you as I know you as you as the singer as the the person who emotes with the music and everything is just very very naked up there in a lot of ways and I was just like wo oh it's ours out the window that very window yeah how many
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times you try to escape out that with a rope you know well this bathroom in here that very bathrooms I didn't wretch but I I had to close the door and sort of hold the wall for a bit which is mad to be doing this all my life and I still get stage fright. Well, let's talk about
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Well, let's talk about the stage fright though cuz it must be a different stage fright than with the boys cuz you got the boys and you know that even if you're having it's rare an off night or it takes you a couple of songs to get into it.
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The whole point of a band is they see that, they know that, they lift their game, you you meet them at some point, and at the end of the day, really, most people only remember the last few songs.
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It was the greatest show of all time, right? Very hurtful. Different. Very hurtful.
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Always end with the opening.
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No, opening the grand opening, grand closing. But it's true.
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It's why you always sing 40 cuz everyone goes away singing the song.
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No one remembers you up the lyric in the first.
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We're going to go through Greek tragedy vein, which I think we should.
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There's always or Irish tragedy, the opening, the closing. Yeah.
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And the trauma in the there's always that moment.
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Every great show I've ever been to, and I'm not I'm talking about our own band, but there has to be that moment where we just we we we get lost.
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We don't know where we are, who we are, who we're standing next with.
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I was thinking you must miss the times when you could say no to almost everybody because you spent the last few weeks being so magnanimous and and talking to so many interesting people.
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I've never seen I have to believe in what I'm saying.
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I sell songs and sell ideas.
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when you two started out.
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This might be hard for you young people. See what I'm saying?
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But cuz everyone's like, "Oh, we got to go talk to people about our music, man.
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Oh, do man, we got to go talk to people."
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Well, I don't I don't do that.
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I was like, when I was 20, I was, "Please, will you will you let me speak to you about music?"
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I used to call the, you know, the Sounds magazine or the NME and I'd call him with my my cassette having slept in the train station.
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Did you Did you pretend to be somebody else at all? Never to do that? No. No.
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I It was a sort of time of punk.
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So they they take your call and they say, "What have you done there?"
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I said, "Well, I'm just dropping you in.
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I've been reading you and you're amazing and you're a great writer.
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Would you listen to this cassette?
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This is my new band from Ireland. How old are you? You know, 18. And then say, "Okay."
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If they were cool, like Paul Morley or whatever, they say, "I'll listen to it."
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And and I'd say, "Well, I'll be back in half an hour then." Yeah. Keep you honest.
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So, I'm always if you believe in what you do. Yeah.
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You know, you you you lay out your your your table, you sell your wares.
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So, someone said to me once, might have been me, there's a different sound when people are trying to get out of the garage than people who are very conveniently Yeah.
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in their garage and they're very content in their garage.
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There's this there's a sound there's there's a roar.
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There's a certain feeling from rock and roll that wants to break out of itself that wants to follow.
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That's what it sounds like. Yes. Who was the first play? Was it Dave? Was it Dave Fanning?
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Was he the first person to play your music? Dave Fanning. Unbelievable. And also a conversation.
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It's like you one of the reasons I wanted this is the last interview that I'm doing to talk about myself.
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I am so fed up of the protagonist of this book. Yeah. Play. Yeah. You've been generous. You've been generous.
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I just and it's going to end in this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. And yeah, then I'm done.
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We can talk about the future the next time you see me if you choose to.
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I might get a little bit of future out of you today. I Oh, good. Should we go downstairs? This is Diana.
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Diana brings us safely to every night when I can't speak and feeling ill and whatever else. Oh, you got it. And okay, here. Look, look, look, look.
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And I think Jack Knife Le Kate Ellis answer did you caught this one? Is that Don Fagan? Wow. After you. No. No. Oh, Maestro. No. Yeah.
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So, this is the first time you've set foot back on the stage, right? Yeah.
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This going to be um So, around about here. Yeah. Let's pause.
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I'm turning into a monster. Yeah. You're stressing.
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Well, I'm just getting into But how do you play a character if the person you're playing is yourself?
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Well, that's there's nothing you can't step into a suit of lights, which I'm quite good at or I'm walking out with my mates.
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I've got Edge, Adam, and Larry. Different feeling. Yeah.
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So, this was this was my walk of my walk of shame.
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But it could soon turn to swagger.
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If you if you'd pissed the boys off, and I'm sure you have over the years, if you'd really of course, but if you'd really pushed them too far, this this could have been your first solo album out.
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All of this, all of this could be yours. Come on, dudes.
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I mean, it is kind of an amazing theater, by the way.
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I mean, I just got goosebumps walking out here and I ain't got to do except talk to you, and that's fun.
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But you had a whole different experience. Oh, man. Crazy, right? Yeah. That's a wild thing.
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So, what are you feeling right now?
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Well, I'm first of all, I haven't seen as a man who's been on tour with a space station and Mirabball Lemons and all the things over the years.
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This is all of this could be fit in a station wagon, a table, four chairs. Mhm.
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Edge, Adam, Larry, Alley. Mhm.
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And then Oh, so that was me.
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and rather respectfully they put my father to rest.
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The second chair is for was for the old man. Um, wow. Yeah.
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No, there's a very special feeling and it's a really extraordinary theater. I saw Bob Dylan here. Wow. I I couldn't believe it.
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He was singing like a bird. Wow. And Wow.
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Thanks for inviting us here, man.
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Well, this is an excuse for us to meet as mates. Yeah.
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an excuse for me to return to the scene of the crime. Yeah.
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Just so you know, my MS Alli the night before we were to open here, encourage me to pull the plug, said, "Don't do it."
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She'd seen the rehearsals.
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She says, "Find somebody to just talk about your book like everybody else.
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Why would you want to do a stage play?"
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M listening to her advice is has been maybe the greatest gift gift of my life.
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So in this case, maybe a couple of others. Yeah. I didn't. Why didn't you?
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There's a feeling in me that I might suffer with more than any other member of YouTube.
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I fail, fail again, fail better.
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I just I like the feeling of being right next to failure.
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But what had happened was in the rehearsal there was nobody.
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So there was nobody to laugh.
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And when it was filled, people started laughing.
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And I I'm just not used to that.
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I mean, people are laughing at me for different reasons, but they were laughing with me.
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And I was like, I could feel my cuz we all develop kind of caricatures as you get a bit famous.
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And they become restrictive.
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They become well, they just become claustrophobic.
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And I could feel mine just on this stage.
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And people were saying, "It's a different kind of salesman.
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It's not the man selling us activism or his band.
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It's just just it was just talking.
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Should we you know I um I'm glad you said that because it it was about 10 minutes into the film and I realized that we were getting to know you.
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There are things about that.
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Oh, it was a funny moment.
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This chair this table and chairs null Galler and his son came to see us in London and I'm standing up at the very opening.
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If you make it through the first three minutes, stories surrender, you're going to be okay.
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But this table can become operating theater. It did.
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Um, you know, where I get my heart surgery, can become kitchen table where all operas really starts in the family.
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Uh, and it can become, you know, the hospital bed where you say goodbye to your father.
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So, that table chair is kind of important.
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And I get up on it as you know in the first few minutes and no galler was u came to see us with his son and his son Balo's lost the plot he's up on the kitchen table he's get what so I was doing things that I'd never done before and the minimal aspect of this yeah was a very special moment and you know I when I was a kid there was a place called Project Arts Theater in Dublin and Jim Sheridan and Peter Sheridan ran it. Neil Jordan was there. Great.
11:02
These went on to be great directors, right?
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And I learned a bit about theater from going there at 17.
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And I remember, you know, Samuel Beckett, you know, and Crap's Last Tape I must have seen there.
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And this idea of a table and chairs and a spotlight and he comes from the darkness into the light, but he has to disappear back into darkness to get a few drinks.
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But that was so this is this is a world away from everything you two does.
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But in there's a part of the Irish that belongs to the theater.
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The challenge because we're good theater actors the Irish how to make it into the Lens because as Andrew Dominic would tell me the lens knows when you're lying mate. Mhm.
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I'm like, people know if I'm right here.
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He says, "No, no, it can read your mind."
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So, he pushed me and pushed me to get those performances.
12:03
And I mean, it's it's it's heavy material.
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I mean, out the gate to your point, you're talking about something that was a had become a life-threatening situation, you know, and obviously we didn't know at the time. That's very personal.
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When you're retelling that, it sounds like I mean, you do it in a very effective way, but what did the surgeon tell you?
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you I mean what what what what what what odds did he give you?
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What was what's the situation with that?
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Well, you know, I mean, people go through heart surgery all the time.
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It's not what it used to be in terms of risk or jeopardy.
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And I had the best people in in in New York, Mount Sinai.
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They couldn't have looked after me better.
12:37
But I that sort of hallucination, that sequence, that um trippy sequence. Yeah.
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Um, it was based on a very real moment that I had where I mean we've talked about my faith and I'm not a very religious person clearly but you have a huge faith.
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I have a deep faith and you know normally if I pray I always I feel feel something.
13:01
My dad used to say to me with you it's like a two-way conversation with me I don't it's just I just I don't know.
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He said you've got that you've got that.
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He used to laugh at it and then he said, "Don't lose it."
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And for a second, I just remember thinking, reaching out and thinking, "Oh, I've lost I've lost this.
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This is the most important thing of all."
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In truth, I'm just off my mind on whatever they give you.
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And I cuz I'm not used to being away from that feeling.
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It came back, but not before I had some tr struggle breathing or my lungs seem to fill up with water or whatever.
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That was the scary thing.
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But people go through this every day.
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And you know, it's not very rock and roll to be talking about open heart surgery.
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Except if you've read the John Lennon handbook, his definition of art, open heart 100% surgery bleed onto the page.
14:04
And even, you know, Paul McCartney in your interview with him is one of my favorite.
14:09
I mean I can't believe that he is still with us that we are walking around with Johan Sebastian back you know both of them had this vulnerability and their ability to to follow what they thought of as love.
14:24
The Beatles some would say overused the word love but I think they actually just squeezed every drop out of it. Love is rage. John Mother Mhm.
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You had me but I never had you. Mhm. What is love?
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And then, you know, so Paul fill the world with silly love songs. What's wrong with that?
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And it's like that's still a bit of Liverpool attitude. What's wrong with that?
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And Ringo, we still have Ringo with us. It's amazing peace sign.
14:50
We're looking for that transcendence, right?
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And what rock and roll is turning your rage into beauty or something beautiful.
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As an artist, I know it is true that we can turn our worst experiences into these great moments.
15:11
My brother called me just after he saw the film.
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I couldn't have handled it if he was in the cinema um with us at CAN.
15:18
Um but he said, I wish I was there for you more.
15:26
And I was like, I said, you were there?
15:28
I said this this is it's such an ordinary story our family there's nothing extraordinary about it's ordinary what a beautiful observation yeah he was it was just it was just really great and I just felt well that wound and we all have these teenage wounds usually I think a lot of people do and then that wound becomes an opening and I said to my brother I said but it gave me all this it gave me this life I have It's it turned me into an artist.
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Once you know what it is you want to do with your life and you say, well, I'm an artist.
16:02
Once you know, then it's like, okay, all of this is material. This is our canvas. This is all we've got. Yeah.
16:11
And it's the I was calling it my memoir, you know, cuz it's like, here's another great thing about me. It's like, oh god.
16:18
And and then and then I'm on the tour. Yeah.
16:23
I mean, the only reason I did the theater play Yeah.
16:28
was so I didn't have to do the obvious selling of the book, you know, on on promotion.
16:35
I just thought I'll do something creative with it. Yeah.
16:37
But I'm so grateful to the darkest moments of my life.
16:46
Surrender has been a beautifully executed experience for us to read and for the lucky few to witness and now for us to watch.
16:53
But I keep coming back to the to the to the core word which is surrender.
16:59
And I wonder whether or not even you were conscious when you began this journey that this was ultimately going to be a facetoface you and yourself two-way conversation moment or whether it started to unfold in in over time.
17:13
If I have any regret is that it's it's probably you know it's a lot of book and that's why I call it 40 short stories.
17:22
You know the lesson if you're asking me is a practical one something to do with daily the daily practice of writing the other one is to shut up and listen and I saw this quote this woman was a seek you know as in the seek community um Valerie car she said to listen um to the other side does not grant them legitimacy.
18:00
It offers them humanity and restores your own.
18:03
She also said deep listening is an act of surrender. So there it was.
18:12
And yeah, in politics and activism, I've always tried to, you know, be on the other side of the barricade, be on, you know, try out every different point of view.
18:22
But if you're asking me the at the end of the book, how did you feel?
18:29
Apart from just exhausted and worried that the other band members would write their own. Oh my god.
18:34
uh what would happen if or Ally uh was to write her memoir, but you don't have to agree with somebody on everything.
18:48
Just one thing if that thing is important enough, that's the that's the that's how the one campaign came into existence. Yeah.
18:56
existence. Yeah. You know, one of the most moving parts of the film is is watching you literally wrestle with this idea of kind of being a son again and going back to that moment when before all of this someone else was in charge and you were part of
19:14
a family and it was and that's what I sort of took again from watching the film in particular was that you had finally come face to face with the demon you had created out of this kind of unique environment that was really out of your control. losing your mother in
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of your control. losing your mother in that in in in that regard at that time the relationship that happened with your father subsequently your brother off doing his own thing surviving in his own way discovery of another brother right
19:40
exactly so all these all these things right the emptiness then gave me everything it's the last toward the end of the film wasn't in the stage play wasn't in the book and it just came out in the narration voice I asked myself the Was I ready to give up the emptiness that gave me everything? And at some point, you got to let go of
20:03
And at some point, you got to let go of those demons.
20:08
And um I I I I I feel like I'm walking a little different.
20:13
Now, you may spot me of an occasion out a little late and think, "No, no, you you need to walk straighter, young man."
20:19
Um, but I feel freer and I feel there's my voice has come into something different since I this is over the last 10 years.
20:32
I would say this after my father after I made peace with my father because these things they shape you and they can they can change your very physiology.
20:43
They can change the way you sit, the way you stand, the way you walk, the way you fall over, the way you sing.
20:53
And I had that range since early days when I'm singing on the war album.
20:58
Um, and then Unforgettable Fire singing Outside Myself and Pride the Name of Love, you know.
21:06
And one of the reasons that I'm able to do it now and one of the reasons for staying in you too cuz we all have to make our mind up why we would want to Yeah.
21:18
make a new YouTube album. Yeah.
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Is I feel that my voice has got to a place that is I've never been there before.
21:26
And I thank the project of writing the memoir and the play and the book and the film and all the rest of it for just getting all that out.
21:38
I'm ready now for the future.
21:38
Ready for the sound of the future.
21:40
Ready to I mean we've already been recording but my point that I started about 45 minutes ago freedom of you.
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There's no point singing songs about freedom.
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You have to be free yourself.
21:55
Freedom is a thing you can access and we all need to be able to access it.
22:01
And even with my faith and even with my family and good fortune, there are times where self-consciousness has me awkward and, you know, and and not free.
22:17
I I really enjoyed the the Esquire piece and I I'm really interested to know because it was it was touched on what that lifestyle intervention was and because Yeah. Yeah.
22:34
Cuz you're you're an unstoppable force and so for your family to say, "Okay, we've let him run long enough like we need to have a conversation."
22:44
What can you share about that moment?
22:45
Cuz I I love the family dynamic.
22:48
Well, they don't, you know, nobody wants to hear that sound and realize it's the emergency services taking your father away.
22:55
It's not like I'm, you know, I'm doing, you know, a load of drugs and I'm going to end up, you know, in a swimming pool, you know, drowning.
23:07
But my drug of choice is pushing myself not physically but mentally sometimes artistically to just to see how far what's the elastic limit of this and what I have to learn is that I I do that in the band and that's great because we we needed somebody in the band like that but I'm sure it was hard for them uh at times and that they've forgiven me for for that. I'm very grateful.
23:40
I'm sure it was hard on Alli, too.
23:46
And then there was kind of reinforcements um after the heart surgery and they said things like, you know, you need to change your life. I'm like, what?
23:57
Like go to the gym more or something like that? No, you need to relax. I am not taking up golf.
24:05
I'm just telling you that right now. Okay.
24:07
So, what do you mean exactly?
24:09
And then they were saying, well, you just do normal like, you know, do you watch the t TV like series and streamers?
24:17
I said, well, you're my family if if if you don't think I am.
24:20
I thought I thought it was.
24:23
They said, "Dad, you see the first five minutes of everything we watch." Yeah. And you're gone. Yeah.
24:29
So, you have to watch stuff.
24:33
And I'm like, "What sort of stuff?
24:36
And then I think two of them was like, "Have you seen Chef's Table?" Perfect.
24:43
I'm like, "Chef's table?" No, that's perfect.
24:46
I'm like, "What do you mean?
24:48
This is a man who grew up, you know, cooking badly for himself." Yeah.
24:51
But I see I I see where they're going with that.
24:56
Anyway, it was it's that kind of thing.
24:58
Maestros, they want you to be inspired.
25:00
They want to they want they're not going to get you in through the door with low hanging fruit.
25:04
They you're going to be like, "Well, what is this TV thing all about?"
25:07
I watched with my eldest daughter The Crown. I'm like, perfect.
25:16
And then and then they and then later was do you want to watch Succession?
25:19
I'm like, what are you getting at?
25:21
And um the problem is happens in so many homes.
25:28
In American homes especially, people work two jobs just to get the rent. Yeah.
25:33
I worked two jobs for 25 years. Full-time activist. Yep.
25:41
With one in red, full-time um singer with you two occasionally moonlighting as the others would see it.
25:51
Um and I just have to I have to sort of realize now that as far as the activism is concerned that you know there are younger smarter as far as African um activists are concerned African activists that can lead it.
26:10
We've got this woman and DeeI runs the one campaign now. She's incredible.
26:13
Um, Red is these these are like they're not like songs maybe these they're more like albums if you think of Red and one it's okay they they go out into the world I'm there now I'm not going anywhere I'm there but I'm backstage I'm not front to house and that means I can be more of a servant to these four chairs that are dotted around the stage here.
26:44
I I'm I I want to serve Edge.
26:46
I want to serve Adam and and Larry while they still will let me.
26:54
Um and Ally and I said, Ally, I'm want to be better at being in the family.
26:59
She says they've all left home. It's a bit late.
27:02
I walked Eve to my to her rooms. Yeah.
27:06
And still holding my hand. Yeah.
27:09
And I remember that feeling of oh my god as I let her go surrender is what's you're now you're off and that actually was was close now. Yeah.
27:24
There were moments where perhaps people have to just go away and make their own explorations. She's an actor.
27:32
Amazing actor doing incredible disciplined. Funny. Yeah.
27:34
If if the kids have been raised up at the level I know you and Cara don't then off they go.
27:42
And if our kids have been raised up at the level Ali has going to be okay.
27:52
You don't give yourself enough credit which is that you are you do carry yourself with the humility.
27:55
It's not lost on any of us who are you two fans that you defer to your bandmates way more than you ultimately accept the accolade of being the frontman of you too and the singer of you too.
28:05
It's also not lost on us that you keep referring to them as the edge Adam and Larry.
28:09
So the last time that we spoke at Sphere you were very respectful to what Larry was going through.
28:17
You gave us just enough but he's back.
28:19
You're recording together again.
28:21
So I think it's pretty safe space for us to ask a what was that time like when you had to push forward into this great technological futuristic lemon in Las Vegas and I wondered how it was for you now that that's a thing of the past and we're going to get to the future in a minute but just to dwell there for a second what that time was like for a band to know that their founding member wasn't there for the first time in the history of the band. Yeah. Yeah. There was drummers.
28:56
That's all you have to say. Drummers. Drummers.
28:59
I mean, they they go through they take a lot of punishment. Yeah. From singers.
29:04
No, they but they take a lot of punishment just physically.
29:09
And I think those physical things take a toll on you.
29:12
And I think at different times in this band, various people have, you know, you you feel them just go, is this worth it?
29:20
And Larry just had the smarts to take he he knew he needed to take time out to to get himself sorted and and he did.
29:34
And that was a very difficult moment to be in in Las Vegas doing acting baby without him.
29:40
We found this unbelievable drummer Bram. Fantastic as you know.
29:46
And then Larry came and Larry was really generous to Bram.
29:48
Wished him the best, you know.
29:51
But Larry, I mean, he's the only member of you who's come come to see the band. What did he say?
29:59
What was his What was his feedback?
30:01
He was very he came we were we were there before we went on and was a you know was a real moment. Yeah.
30:11
is very very generous to to to Brown.
30:14
But every band you can hang on like a bad marriage, you know, you can, you know, and have people around and laugh at each other's jokes.
30:23
A marriage of convenience. Yeah.
30:25
You two can't work like that.
30:27
And if you're injuries have you like not sure about about your participation in the band, that's you.
30:40
We have to take that very seriously.
30:40
And I think others have felt like that at times.
30:45
And it's a strange thing to to be blood brothers when you're all when you've all hit 60 and it's like this gang thing.
30:55
Are we going to grow out of it?
30:56
Why would we grow out of it?
30:59
Are they sort of remnants from your from teenage years?
31:06
What's so important about a band is the verticality is not there.
31:09
You know, I don't want a boss.
31:13
I don't want to be a boss.
31:15
I'm in a band with people on my we're all on the same level.
31:19
These are horizontal relationships.
31:22
Even if you're the singer and you have an ego, like I was I was saying to somebody, Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay.
31:35
But the U2 ego is even bigger. We have it's massive.
31:39
Like the protection of each other.
31:42
And if we lose that, we've lost a lot.
31:46
But I'll tell you, whoever walks away, and it could be any one of us at any time, you will lose the best arguments you could ever have had.
31:58
And we are as good as the arguments we get.
32:00
we are as good as that's it.
32:02
But as you as people get older, they just they get we get calcified.
32:08
So it's like I don't really want to move out of his way maybe as much as I used to or somebody's having a bad day. But you know what?
32:15
There's an antidote to that.
32:17
It's kind of right there for you.
32:19
I think as a fan of the band, lifelong fan of the band.
32:20
band, lifelong fan of the band. If you think about the sphere like once more to the moon like what other star do we need to travel to and plant a flag and say we did it you know we we open the doors to this new way of experiencing immersive
32:35
rock concerts or dance concerts whatever you want to film Larry comes back you get to make another record you get to you choose to I don't know why man I not stylistically you'll take it where you want to take it but spiritually I keep coming back to unforgettable Mhm. Yes. It's one of my favorite You Yes.
32:52
It's one of my favorite You two albums, maybe my favorite, but it's probably the most important one, I think, because it's just all feeling.
33:04
It just reminded me of Alvis Mitchell, an amazing writer.
33:06
I got to meet him in can and I thought we were going to talk about the film because he's an incredible film critic and he wanted to talk about the unforgettable fire and he wanted to talk about the drums on the unforgettable fire.
33:25
He said the emphasis on he I mean he went through it in detail and then I was like great now we'll get back to talking about the film.
33:32
He kept going back to it.
33:34
And there's something about that album.
33:36
We're talking about it again today.
33:39
This is our second time round.
33:42
There's something about Brian Eno being in the room with you again. He has been.
33:46
And and there's something about the room itself.
33:51
And by that I mean great rock and roll records, you feel the room.
33:57
A lot of music is made on the grid now.
33:59
So you can tighten things up.
34:03
The Beatles tighten things up in their own way.
34:04
They stuck together different takes and whatever.
34:06
And it's great for electronic music, but you know, the Black Keys or whatever, they're amazing at keeping things loose.
34:16
And but rock and roll has gotten quite tight. And you got quite tight. You too got quite tight. Yeah.
34:22
So we got a little tight for Songs of Innocence, Songs of Experience.
34:26
And then but I thought I want to feel the room.
34:30
I want to feel the way these musicians bump up against each other with Nirvana.
34:35
You feel that Wonder Horse.
34:37
Do you know them cuz you hear them in the room.
34:39
So that'll be part of our future.
34:41
It doesn't have to be all of it because there's moments when when you want to disappear into sounds that you've never heard before.
34:54
But this but at the heart of our It is three musicians and a and a salesman.
35:08
You've stood on the stage on your own without the band.
35:09
First time that's probably ever happened in your lifetime to this to this extent where you've actually had to carry a performance without your friends around you.
35:15
Coming again away from the sphere.
35:18
And there's a great duality there.
35:19
There's a great kind of almost a paradox there.
35:21
And you find yourself now in a situation where you're like, I know myself better than I knew myself before.
35:26
This process has had some effect on me.
35:28
So like where is the ambition set?
35:31
Say you make that a beautiful album, you stand by it.
35:33
Do you have to go out there and conquer again or can you do right by the music in a different way?
35:42
You're conquering yourself.
35:43
So, so there's no way any YouTube's never been out there to people hear different sounds like they they hear electronic and think, "Oh, they're trying to be I'm sorry. Hang on.
35:54
I got to interrupt you there.
35:55
We are applying to be the biggest band in the world."
36:02
I was there at the Atoria.
36:02
Okay, that was a statement of conquer.
36:07
Yeah, but we've moved on.
36:07
That's what I'm trying to get to. Where are you now?
36:11
Are you still applying or can you let the music lead you and not the fight is my question.
36:17
Just I'm sorry I can't hear you, mate.
36:21
I can't What did you say?
36:24
You You're conquering who yourself? Oh, off.
36:28
I think you I think you understand.
36:32
Director Andrew Dominic, I think you understand the question, Senator.
36:35
Um, so yes, I do understand the question.
36:40
Before I answer it, I want to say this.
36:43
I was on this stage on my own and I was going to take off all the armor, all but I could not have done it without Jack Knife Lee.
36:55
Unbelievable composer, unbelievable producer.
36:57
He's got an album out with the incredible artist called Lonnie Holly.
37:03
It's called Protest with Love is mindblowing. He does amazing work.
37:05
I had this woman right there.
37:08
So her name is Gemma Dharti. Amazing.
37:13
She's a harpist, composer herself, song guard harpist.
37:19
She was and she's right there.
37:19
And I sang Sunday Bloody Sunday to her every night. She is from Derry.
37:24
She is from the very city where that massacre happened.
37:29
She is born after the peace process.
37:33
Not amazing or through the peace process.
37:35
And it's an uneasy piece sometimes, but it's amazing that I had her on stage just there. I had Kate Ellis again.
37:44
Worked for Philip Glass, Credible, her own foret, I think, or certainly combo.
37:50
They're called a crash crash ensemble.
37:54
She's I mean, ridiculous musician.
37:54
And they had to watch me founder and then found myself. I got through it.
38:04
So, I just want to answer that.
38:05
That's how I could do this.
38:09
That was for me a kind of Everest.
38:12
It's not a a big obvious one, you know, like Zoo TV. It's not that.
38:16
It's it was can you be intimate? Can you speak?
38:23
Can you look at people, talk to people about your life, what sort of a performer are you?
38:30
I had to answer those kinds of questions.
38:33
I had to think about, do you know Mark Ryland's the genius actor?
38:40
I saw him in New York to a play called Jerusalem.
38:44
I've never seen anything like it.
38:47
I realize I'm really attracted to performers who don't feel so comfortable on the stage.
38:55
They might follow you home.
38:57
They might mugg you on the way home.
38:59
They might call you a taxi.
38:59
They might, you know, they might tickle you.
39:05
Who knows what they might do.
39:05
But I learned on this stage to stand stand with me.
39:14
I learned that there's no there's nothing to stop a performer from, you know, when I was a kid, jumped into the crowd.
39:22
That's what we've been trying to do all the time is is connect. Yeah.
39:27
Even the sphere with all that extraordinary technology, even Zoo TV as you it's all the same thing to connect.
39:35
It's not physical proximity.
39:39
It's em it's emotional proximity.
39:42
Can you be honest with these people?
39:45
And then just occasionally just the threat the threat that you can be in their face or they in yours.
39:56
I I I wanted to learn more about that.
40:00
That's where we started from in our band.
40:02
And so I will go back to you too with with with a different feeling.
40:12
It's not just sphere which is in a way just like a giant version of this.
40:18
I don't know what sort of shows we're going to do but that distance we'll still be trying to break the fourth wall.
40:27
The fourth wall is is talking to camera as well. Yeah.
40:29
You know, it's and and we've seen that a few times, too. Huh.
40:36
We've seen this one a few times. Right. That's right.
40:38
And um myself and Larry early on actually jumped off um a stage in the marquee in London, went out the back door, got a taxi, and off on the others.
40:54
And but that's it, you know. Wait, wait, wait.
40:57
That needs a little more color.
40:58
You actually you did stage dive or No, no, just walk just walk out.
41:04
And I can't remember why, but he decided to I was going to do it and he decided go with me.
41:08
And it was just the two of us and the others are still there. Yeah.
41:12
And they were like, "We're gone."
41:12
I was telling somebody the reason I was in with a the white flag of surrender, the same surrender that we're speaking about today.
41:20
And in LA, I go into the crowd and they're like, "Give, you know, it's a mad crowd. It's like I'm 23. Yeah.
41:26
I'm singing about nonviolence.
41:30
People are trying to get the the white flag of surrender then off me and I'm like me. Yeah.
41:39
So I'm you know like animal and this is not good and this is not this is not I'm like you want a brawl and at least I did. I don't want that now.
41:53
And even then it was like a lover's quarrel.
41:57
That's the way you two's relationship with their audience. It was they bite you.
42:02
I mean we'd bite you or kiss you.
42:06
We wanted to get to that place so badly that I could even lose the run on myself and and like give me back my white flag.
42:17
Give me back I need it for red rocks. I need it for red rocks.
42:21
I got a show in two days.
42:22
Did you Now, now I've brought that up.
42:28
How sketch was that move when you climbed on top of the roof of the stage under a blood red sky? Oh, the iconic image.
42:37
I'm always looking for these moments, you know, there's and there's the part performer in me.
42:42
There's the, as I told you, the performer, the they're not to be trusted, these performers.
42:48
And we go, as I say in the film, we go to all sorts of untruths to get to the truth.
42:59
That is the paradox of being a performer.
43:02
So something spontaneous happens one night, you repeat it. I do.
43:07
I go, "Oh, I like that feeling."
43:11
So before live aid when I jumped into the crowd and we didn't get to play Pride in the Name of Love because the singer went missing.
43:20
But I had had that feeling on the tour during bad of finding somebody and holding them.
43:26
It's a different story when there's 100,000 people at Weley Stadium and there's million people watching on the telly. Yeah.
43:31
Um so those moments of climbing up the top of stadiums and Yeah.
43:37
They were They're all But they aren't I I'll just say this in defense of myself. It wasn't Look at me. It was Look at us.
43:51
I wanted our band to be noticed.
43:58
Is it true that the band were furious with you after live because you pulled that stunt? Oh, yeah.
44:01
I know there was the proper um there was Hopper Fire in Squad and I really felt for them because we just made Unforgettable Fire. Yeah.
44:13
Pride in the Lame was our big song. Yeah.
44:15
You only got to play three songs. Yeah.
44:18
To play them quickly according to Bob Gallov.
44:20
And we never got to the third one.
44:23
So they were very very very upset.
44:26
Meanwhile, the rest of us all around the world were astounded at the spontaneity and the humanity of that experience and just how I mean it was a game changer.
44:35
Do you know what was amazing?
44:37
This is a tiny little thing, but it's a gigantic thing to me.
44:43
I'm sure it was a tiny little thing to Lou Reed, but Lou wasn't on the bill.
44:48
And he was watching the TV that day.
44:51
He was my hero, Lou Reed.
44:51
day. He was my hero, Lou Reed. and he was sitting there and he felt not connected with the world and maybe the world had gone in a different direction than him as if I mean are there five songwriters that can touch that in the entire world
45:11
but we're still all susceptible to that feeling right no matter what we've done all of us and he was sitting there watching the TV feeling completely forgotten about and next thing this Irish man with a mad mullet started going doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Started singing to the crowd. Yeah.
45:27
Started singing to the crowd. Yeah.
45:30
And cuz I used to I just I don't know where it came from. Satellite love, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
45:34
It was bum bum bum satellite cuz we're on this is satellite of love.
45:38
That's what live a That was a spontaneous decision at the time.
45:41
You didn't go out there and be like, "Okay, I'm going work work a little bit of walk on the wild side into this."
45:45
It just came to you in the moment. Well, no.
45:46
We'd been doing improvisations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. of but different ones. Yeah.
45:53
Over the the time and it just but because I'd gone out there and had and and I was out there for a while, I could do this and and I met Lou Reed later.
46:06
He was, you know, such a hero to me.
46:09
And he he told me that meant something to him. Wow.
46:12
and and uh we got close and one of his best albums is called New York and there's a song on it called the beginning of a great adventure and it's all the names he'd have if if he had a child and he puts me in there just a little that's a that's a that's a train spotting that's a training I know that that's amazing yeah we became really we became friends and he came on the Amnesty International tour.
46:44
He came He did lots of stuff. The Velvet Underground. Can you imagine? Reformed. Came on the road.
46:54
Did however many gigs with you two.
46:57
I think I did two of their own. That was it. Never seen again. Yeah.
47:01
Look, you had some wild ones.
47:01
You had the Pixies come out and play with you.
47:05
You had incredible bands come out and play with you. You're a fan. This is the thing.
47:08
I think people see you as such a a gigantic figure in the world of music that that maybe we conveniently forget what a huge super fan of artists you are. Yeah.
47:20
I mean, you've as long as I've known you, you've been championing bands or loving bands or been, you know, you just mentioned Wonder Horse is a beautiful example of that.
47:28
Oasis, I mean, as much as you know, you had push and pull with those guys cuz that's the that's the fun part. I love them. Same. I just love them.
47:36
And what I really love is this the sort of preciousness that had gotten a part of what was called indie music. They just blew it out. Yeah.
47:47
And and there was just a swagger.
47:51
The sound of getting out of the ghetto, not glamorizing it. And they're both funny.
47:57
I'm still very close with null and he he got a message to me says he's kind of shocked by how great the band is.
48:06
So, I think I think we're gonna have a good summer.
48:08
You're gonna go to a show, right? Of course. Yeah.
48:10
And and but remember what they did as well.
48:15
Those kind of big guitars, big Neil Young, generous sounds, those they were against the law in the UK.
48:22
They're like, "No, I do what I want." Yeah.
48:28
And and then they had this kind of rhythmic beautiful quality.
48:32
today going to be the day that that's a kind of that's a or almost R&B rhythm but Manchester was very influenced by dance music so they were groovier than anybody they were raw than anybody and Edge and myself met them in the first album we went to N's flat and they're like it's like literally a basement flat first album and it's like yeah I'm into you too like yeah what what's um Yeah, but a lot you're the edge. Wow.
49:04
And uh and less whatever.
49:08
And I'm saying, you know, America's great, you know, and because at that time that message didn't get through.
49:19
It didn't get through in the end till now.
49:21
M by the way, Oasis message didn't get through maybe to America and America didn't get through to so this is going to be this would be like their first tour in the US.
49:36
People that know how great they are and they they played with you two uh in San Francisco.
49:43
We're all watching and on the side of stage they're at absolute peak and they've just made one request.
49:50
and they turned the PA in the stadium around to so so they could just enjoy it.
49:55
And so we're up watching them and and they're there and our audience hadn't got into the stadium.
50:03
There was some delay so it's only half full and people didn't know who Oasis were, you know.
50:10
So they're kind of looking around and I'm like, "Oh man, they've come to San Francisco, come to California.
50:15
I want them to have the best time ever."
50:19
So I'm like standing at the side of stage come off think I'm going to be consoling them.
50:24
And I just hear one of them say, "Oh, that was unbelievable. That was amazing."
50:30
Like I realized they weren't looking at the crowd.
50:33
They were just listening. Yeah. To each other. Yeah. Through that big PA. Interesting.
50:40
You said before that, you know, if the Gallaghers can get back together, then perhaps world peace isn't too far away.
50:46
You know, we It's tough, man.
50:47
You have been a vocal proponent for a conscious and subconscious commitment to humanity to the idea of actually accepting that we only have this one rock and we got to figure this out and that's complicated and you've been as much of as possible.
51:04
As you mentioned before, you know, handing over what you've lovingly built with others to others to run and to grow is a is a you know, a powerful moment in your life.
51:16
And yet I it's been noticed in the last 3 weeks that you've come out swinging, you know, and and I I feel like for the first time in a while in front of people, we know it's always going on behind us.
51:26
You've been you've been stepping back up and saying things we haven't heard you say for a while.
51:31
It's been some dark swirly stuff about and you know, I've got really great conservative friends.
51:40
You know, I've worked with Republican presidents, Democratic presidents. I'm Irish. Don't have a vote here.
51:46
And the one campaign worked with both sides.
51:50
It's the it's the very design of it.
51:53
But what happened with with um I can't even speak, you know, Doge.
52:05
I I explained that since they cut because without warning, without a heads up, they just cut off USAD PEPAR gets screwed.
52:13
That's the big AIDS program we start started with with um George Bush.
52:18
We we helped be part of it.
52:21
George Bush, he he led it.
52:21
Barack Obama followed through on it. Um Biden, too.
52:27
But to just rip these life support systems out of the walls just like and call it a criminal enterprise was more than I could take.
52:38
And if we're talking about criminal enterprises, I think we have to consider that there's a difference in running a country and running a company.
52:55
And there's a difference between job losses and life losses.
53:00
And when you seem to delight in firing federal employees who are working on behalf of the world's poor and and they are driving the trucks or helping at the customs to get food that's rotting while kids are starving in Sudan or Yemen or Gaza or whatever.
53:27
I would describe that as if love is the realizing of another's potential, the squandering of it, I think we can go as far as calling it evil.
53:40
In the spirit of what you've established throughout your life in terms of not taking a partisan approach to positive change, to solution, you would still sit with these people.
53:54
I can't believe what I'm witnessing.
53:57
And there's incredible people I know in the GOP and they're still there. Thank God. Some great people.
54:09
But what's going on in that administration?
54:14
I I I know that office, you know, the um budget office.
54:19
and and I can't even pronounce my his name because it so upsets me.
54:23
He's the man who said, "I want federal workers to feel nauseous when they come to work.
54:35
I want them to feel like they're not wanted cuz they're not wanted.
54:41
These are people who work all over.
54:44
I mean, I'm sure there's waste.
54:46
I'm sure there's too big a bureaucracy and people want to shrink government shrink it, you know, fine, but this is bullying. This is humiliating.
54:57
But this is this is sick.
55:01
And I don't want to be in in politics, but I can't go into that administration when there's that level of of cruelty.
55:12
Actually, that's the word. and freedom. Rock and roll. Rock and roll. That's what we do.
55:20
You go back to the studio and you go to the place where it began. Yeah. Yeah.
55:25
As a as a as a as a person who has given so much incredible art.
55:31
Given received far more than ever gave. That is true. That is true.
55:36
But we have done very well out of betrayed.
55:38
Beautiful music that changes our lives and the promise of more to come.
55:43
this renewed energy with a band that I'm glad we we spoke about Larry for a while. I didn't know the facts.
55:51
I'd have to get used to a new you two.
55:52
I'm glad it's the same you two, you know, with renewed energy.
55:54
And I guess as we wrap up our time this time, I'd like to ask you, where do you go from here?
56:03
No more talkie-talkie about the the protagonist of his own story can now go back to being part of a different story. So where to now? I'm going to the pub. Um, it's all about you.
56:16
I wouldn't mind if you have a moment. Yes, I'm down.
56:19
I'm going to do the pint and the actual paint.
56:21
I want an actual I don't want a show business pint.
56:26
I want And I want a black bush.
56:31
That was my my father used to drink. Yeah.
56:34
Which was a Protestant whiskey and he's a Catholic man.
56:35
That's the attitude there. Right.
56:38
And as regards your bigger question, I've been in the studio. I've heard these men.
56:48
They are remarkable musicians.
56:52
And Larry's been staying late working on his parts.
56:57
Edge last time he said, he said, "I have 300 songs."
57:02
I said, "They're not songs, Edge.
57:06
They're just guitar parts." you.
57:06
He said, "Well, I have 25 great songs."
57:07
I said, "Actually, yeah, we've worked on probably 25, but 15.
57:15
They have to be have to whittle down.
57:17
I don't like long albums, so we have to get it.
57:19
It should be 10 songs, but I don't have a timeline on that." And they don't either. What a blessing.
57:26
What a gift to be able to go into that room and feel that spirit still, right? Aren't we lucky? We're still here. Yeah.
57:34
You know what a beautiful story you told full of tragedy and heartbreak but ultimately man that's this redemption and you know you get to like yourself right working on