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Careful, careful, careful.
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Why would you ask me that question?
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Hey, what's going on, everybody?
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From First We Feast, I'm Sean Evans, and you're watching Hot Ones.
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It's the show with hot questions and even hotter wings.
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And today, we're joined by Bob Odenkirk.
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He's an actor and writer whose resume includes everything from the pioneering sketch comedy series Mr.
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Show to Breaking Bad and an acclaimed performance as Jimmy McGill in Better Call Saul.
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You can also catch him starring in AMC's brand-new comedy-drama Lucky Hank, which is set to premiere on March 19th.
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Bob Odenkirk, welcome to the show. Hi. How are you? I'm doing great. I'm doing great.
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How are you, especially around hot sauce? Yeah, yeah.
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I do see the value of like when there's kind of an intense spice mixed in with flavors.
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It kind of is an awesome thing, you know?
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Um but, I've never understood, you know, like the pure hot [ __ ] that just like blows your brain out.
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Like, I don't get what you're getting from that. But, you know what? It makes good TV. It makes good TV. Oh, I guess so.
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I've heard such things such a good things about the show, and I know that you've done great interviews.
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I don't particularly see the connection.
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There's a sense that the person is disarmed a bit because they're distracted by the heat.
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But, I think I'm perfectly capable of talking without having a part of my body injured. Okay.
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Do you eat the whole wing?
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A bite usually does the trick.
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But, I'll go wherever you go today, Bob.
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Well, this is just really good. There we go.
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Yeah, this is not There's a vague hint of heat at the end. Mhm. It's just damn good. There we go. Mhm. Oh, that's really good. Wow. Off to a hot start. There we go.
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Getting a Get a round of applause. Yeah. There we go.
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So, in your latest project, Lucky Hank, you play an English department chair who describes the college you work at as mediocrity's capital. Yeah.
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And I was immediately hooked by the first scene when your character begrudgingly offers harsh feedback to a student's essay. Yeah.
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Was playing a cantankerous English professor at all cathartic for you considering how much of your career you've spent obsessing over the written word? I'll tell you what.
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Um it was it wasn't so much the cantankerous part that was cathartic.
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Uh after playing Saul Goodman for so long, this guy is sort of fundamentally different than Saul cuz he is connected to people in his world. He loves them. They love him.
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Not to mention there's no drugs. There's no guns. There's no cartel. There's no zombies.
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There's It's not a genre piece.
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This uh Lucky Hank is closest to like an Alexander Payne film.
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It's like equal parts comedy drama.
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I don't want to eat a lot of wings in my life. Mhm. Mhm. Look at you, though. Could have fooled me. Well, going in. Now, that is um Yeah.
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It's a little more wanting to be hot. Uh still not Right. as flavorful. Yeah. Nothing beats this one. There we go.
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So, like you, I'm a product of the Chicago suburbs and a broadcasting major.
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In what ways do you think your affection for comedy was shaped by watching stations like WGN and Channel 11 PBS.
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Well, definitely Channel 11 with Monty Python, Dave Allen at Large, uh The Two Ronnies.
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Python was the one that made me go, "Wait, what is this?"
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They're making fun of everything. Yeah. And they're being hard. But it's silly as hell.
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And then you've got Terry Gilliam's absurdity, which kind of takes you a step back and makes you go like, "Come on, it's just uh it's cartoons. It's nothing."
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But it's really got a [ __ ] you vibe at the core of it, which I loved. Yeah.
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Did you have a favorite Chicago land regional TV commercial?
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You know, it doesn't matter how many decades removed We made fun of it on Mr. Show. Schurler. Schurler Ford.
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Come on, you don't remember this?
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Maybe it just passed mine cuz like my In the good old summertime.
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Hi, I'm Harris Schurler here, your singing Ford dealer.
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This week we have I'm not scared. So, we're going to add. Yeah. Okay.
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Little bit of a higher level, but manageable, I'm seeing. Yeah. Now, here we go, Bob. Yeah. Crushing it.
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A little harder harder, definitely. Mhm.
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Stick around a little longer than that.
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Leave it a little bit of a trail behind. Mhm.
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So, in 1989, the Chicago Tribune described your one-man show, Half My Face Is a Clown, as determinately and intrudely silly and satisfyingly so.
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What can a one-man show do or accomplish that other genres can't?
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You getting a sketch group together and finding a stage to do a show is not always so easy.
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So, stand-up comedy boomed when I moved to Chicago.
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It It had this crazy heyday that was insane. Yeah, insane. Insane.
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There were 14 comedy clubs in Chicago at one point.
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And I had a thought that my stuff could live in that world.
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It was almost like sketch comedy done by one person.
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There was uh oh, there was a improv piece that I really loved to do.
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I go, "Hey everybody, I'm going to do some improv. We do this game.
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It's called, you know, pick a hat.
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And there's got a box full of hats.
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I'm going to just pick one out.
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I don't know what it'll be, but whatever it is, I will do a character based on it." So, I pull out a hat.
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It's a baseball cap and I think and start playing baseball. Hey batter.
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Hey batter, you know, back off the plate batter.
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You know, I Yeah, give it to him hot. On. I throw the hat away.
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I reach in and I pull out the same baseball cap. And now I'm like uh hey.
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Hey hey hey batter, here comes the heat.
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You know, I'm the catcher now.
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So, now he's the catcher and then another hat and now it's another baseball cap.
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And then he's the shortstop.
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But he's he's like, "HEY BATTER, COME ON. THROW SOME HEAT. I'M THE SHORTSTOP."
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AND uh and then uh But anyway, he reaches in. It's a fireman's helmet. And he throws it away.
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He gets another baseball cap.
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I don't remember the ending.
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But uh that was really fun to do.
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So, you know, um yeah, that's what it was.
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I love that walk down memory lane.
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All right, Bobby, you ready to move on here to sauce number four? Los Calientes. Yep, Faraday.
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Do you cut this show up or do you make us make people [ __ ] watch me 12 wings? No, no.
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Wait to We're very kind in the edit.
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Now, does milk really help?
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So, I guess kind of, but what I've found is once you're in it, you're just in it. You know what I mean?
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Like you're just in the tidal wave.
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You just have to hold on to the board. You know?
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Nothing's going to change it.
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No, nothing's going to bring you back to earth.
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So, you shared a stage at the Second City Theatre with Chris Farley.
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How early on did you recognize his potential as a performer?
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When I got within 100 ft of him for the first time. Yeah.
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Chris is this guy, you know, Jack Black, Chris Farley.
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These are people who when people I I love it when people go, "That guy's got something." Like, "Yeah, really? You think?"
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You know, I mean, who [ __ ] can't tell that he's the [ __ ] I loved Chris and then the motivational speaker, the sketch I wrote for him that did so well and we had done an improvisation and we were all playing teachers of a school and it was like a a don't don't do drugs rally or whatever.
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We're talking to the students and he did his coach character. And it was Matt Foley.
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He might have even used the name Matt Foley.
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It didn't have the story, van down by the river.
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It wasn't a motivational speaker, but, you know, he you know, was going, "Come on, you guys."
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And it it stuck in my head as it would anyone.
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And I went home that night and I wrote that sketch and I've written hundreds of sketches in my life.
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And I wrote it exactly the way it's done.
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Although Robert Smigel added the breaking the table.
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We didn't do that at Second City.
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But everything else is exactly the way I wrote it that night in my little apartment in Chicago and brought it into Chris and said, "Here's a sketch.
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You can do that character you did."
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And uh and and my daughter once asked me, "What was the most fun you had in show biz?"
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And I said, "I did this sketch with Chris Farley.
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I played the dad in the sketch and we did it seven times a week at at at Second City.
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Every time I did that was the most fun I had in show business.
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I'm waiting till we get to that place where it's just a 2 by 4 to the mouth.
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Um, that is not unpleasant and it's it is hot. Yep.
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We're not fooling around now. Right. It's getting serious. But it has flavor still. Exactly.
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Like a nice spicy curry almost. Here we go, Bob. You're doing great. You're doing great. I said I do it. I'm here.
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That's one thing about me. I show up.
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We asked Seth Meyers this question but I'm curious your perspective.
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As someone who understands sketch comedy on a technical level, do you ever feel like there's a tension between what writers think is funny and what audiences think is funny?
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Like is there a comedy corollary to like an Eminem verse that's so obsessed with the mechanics of rapping that people listening to it can't even tell if it's good or not? In Mr.
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Show I can point to Hunger Strike and one of my favorites of all time, the story of Everest where he keeps knocking over the thimbles.
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Now, a lot of people absolutely love the story of Everest.
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It's their favorite sketch.
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But there are people who hate it.
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And Hunger Strike is a great one that I think is one of the best things we wrote.
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It's David Cross as a Eastern mystic uh who's been on a hunger strike and he's going to make a speech.
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He's been on a hunger strike for you know, 40 days and he's supposed to talk about his people and and they're getting their freedom and all he can talk about is food.
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It was [ __ ] genius and it's so funny. But some people hate it.
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When you do that thing where you repeat the joke and you grind it into the ground, that can be so funny to comedy writers.
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A lot has to do with where something is when you see it.
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I think sometimes performers don't understand that.
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They don't think about that because you take that same audience, you put them in a stand-up club and they think, I need to get this one thing. It better be that.
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And then you walk them across the street into a theater on the same night and they their brains can open up to all kinds of other things that you could do.
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And so the venue matters a lot, anyway. Theory.
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I have a lot of theory in me.
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I got a lot of theory in me.
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There's a guy who looks like David Cross on the cover. Yeah. Yeah.
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Honestly, I don't think it's hot.
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I think you [ __ ] up, man. Go ahead. Rearrange.
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Shifting gears over here.
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So I think you're an inspiration to anyone who wants to evolve their career, not the least of which the entertainment people who've lauded your ability to span everything from best-in-class TV drama to absurdist comedy.
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Looking back at your career so far, what do you see as the value of a bomb?
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Bravery that you first a sense that but I'm not different.
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You may not like that movie I did and you're maybe right.
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I think sometimes people don't understand how much a filmmaker or actor maybe agrees with your appraisal of their work. Right.
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You You know, there's a review and it's this isn't good and that isn't good and the actor, some of them, me, or the director, oftentimes me, is like, "Oh, you're right."
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You know, but that you can't kind of show that face.
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You have to You have to support all the people who made the project and went out on a limb with you.
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I almost pursue failure sometimes cuz if you get afraid of that, you're [ __ ] Again, I would I would would and have go ahead and look at my resume.
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You'll be able to pick them out.
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Done projects that were really wobbly.
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Like, did you think that was going to work?
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And just you know, no, I didn't.
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All right, Bobby, you ready to move on here to sauce number seven? Yeah.
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This is the Dreams Eclipse, a little step up here.
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All right, well, going in.
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Well, I'm trying not to read the labels cuz they're all like I'm very impressed, Bobby.
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You've walked in here being like I'm not really a hot sauce guy. I'm definitely not. It's not bad. It's got flavor still.
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are though, a little hot sauce guy. here going on.
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Dreams Eclipse, so it's a beautiful label.
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In an interview with Vanity Fair, you said you don't like how much resentment drives Jimmy's actions.
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With that in mind, what were your thoughts on Jimmy's treatment of Howard? Yeah, I don't like it.
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Very upsetting, very unnerving to play a guy.
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You know, this goes to playing people who have serious, you know, issues, which are the only kind of people they write because that's fun to watch.
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And I remember reading about Brian playing Walter White, and I remember reading about Gandolfini playing Tony Soprano, and the frustrations that they felt with the challenge of just staying in that guy's head.
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And I'd be like, well, come on, it's acting.
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I mean, how how hard can that be?
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And then I got to do Saul, and I was like, oh, this is [ __ ] hard.
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Because you're that guy for 12 hours a day for years and even though it's not your real life, you know, this is what you're this is what acting is is sitting there going I feel this and I he feels that and I'm feeling this and I resent this and I want that and why do I want it?
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Because [ __ ] that guy and [ __ ] this person and I'm going to get him back and you know, and you're just conjuring up those feelings is exhausting.
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You know that they say don't hold on to resentments and stuff and e it's true.
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I mean don't [ __ ] compartmentalize, let go of that [ __ ] because it's just killing you.
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It's not going to help you make better choices.
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You it's going to hurt you more than hurts anyone you resent. I just be careful.
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So it's probably hitting for you now just like it is for me. Trying to get a read. Yeah. That's nasty. Yeah, yeah.
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Oh, it's Satan's [ __ ] I'm going to join you. [ __ ] that sauce. Not for no reason. [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] hey. I know. Jesus Christ. I know. I know.
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So I was a big fan of your 2021 film Nobody.
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A hyper-violent last person standing action film that required almost 2 years to prepare for, what would you say are the characteristics of a good Hollywood fight scene?
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Like, what makes the fight scenes in Nobody work so well?
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You know, I mean, shake a wing right? I know. I know.
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Careful, careful, careful.
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Why would you ask me that question?
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I love the Jason Bourne films, but when he's fighting, he's just a machine.
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Some of them, their job is to present a tough guy, and so they're meant to be a fighting machine that is tough and is not afraid of anything and doesn't get hurt.
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So, I thought, well, I could play a guy who does get hurt and does feel it, but in order to do that, we have to leave the camera on your face and leave it on you during the fight. Long shot.
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So, that means you have to do your own fighting.
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Yeah, hell yeah, and you did.
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But, I thought, you know, if I'm going to do this, then that means I have to do the fighting because I'm wanted bring this thing into action films where I stay in character in the middle of the fight. And I've gotten hurt. I'm scared.
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I'm not sure I'm going to succeed here. Or maybe I feel glee.
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Whatever it is, the character's still alive even in the middle of the fight.
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So, that's what I thought I could bring to that genre, and that's why I had to train so long. I mean, that sucked.
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I Why would you buy this? You're an idiot.
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And why would you make I'll wear that. I'll wear that. That's fair.
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[ __ ] On that note, are you ready to move on to the ninth sauce? Woah. That's how you do it. There you go.
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That is how you do it, Bob. That is how you do it. No shock.
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You said you're going to give me these? Yes.
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You don't have to give me That one? Do you all favor. That's what you want. These are good. There we go. There we go.
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Then some Then there's Yeah.
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This is wide as the Grand Canyon there.
19:39
Did you have a biggest customer pet peeve when you were serving burgers at at the Bevacs before your comedy career took off?
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Well, my biggest problem with at the Bevacs, and it says something about my talent as an actor.
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You know, uh being a waiter there, you're you're supposed to like be smart alec and be rude.
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Well, all the waiters and waitresses could do that, and it was fun and whatever.
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But then when I became a waiter, I didn't really want to do it, but also I can't do it.
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Because when most people go, "Sit down!"
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people are like, and when I go, "Sit down!" they go, "What? I'm sorry." What? He's mean.
20:25
World's smallest sundae, overrated or underrated?
20:29
Oh, no, that's underrated.
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You like the world's Portion control, and I love a sundae, and there you go.
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Go to eat at Bevacs, get the world's smallest sundae.
20:37
I didn't know you knew that, but you went at Yeah, yeah. That's Yeah, yeah.
20:43
If only If only you could This is the killer? This is the last dab. Why are you opening it? I said I'd do the show.
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It's actually a problem that super responsible quality that I have. Right, right.
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Um it's from growing up in a family of seven with a dad who wasn't home.
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Whoa, Oh, that last dab thing, there's nothing responsible about that. too much. That's that's big.
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I'm going to take a little walk. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
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So, there's still some on there. There is. Not cheating.
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This is going to suck, right? You know what?
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I think Yeah, the worst is kind of over. That's what I'll say.
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Well, it's going to suck. It's going to suck. Mhm. Right?
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But mercifully, our dinner date with the wings of death, it's come to an end, all right?
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And we covered your wide-ranging career from writer's room journeyman to TV star to action movie leading man.
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But I know that the Bob Odenkirk experience, ultimately, it's that angsty kid walking through the theater-lined streets of Old Town with a fire in his belly and a chip on his shoulder. That's right.
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Robin Williams once said, "For me, comedy starts as a spew, a kind of explosion, and then you sculpt it from there, if at all.
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It comes out of a deeper, darker side."
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Does that resonate with you, with your brain and insides aflame with hot sauce?
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comedy is finding the things you hate about people and the world and having fun with that, making fun of that.
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And it could be a little tiny dumb thing that you hate, a thing you hate about yourself, uh a behavior in the world that just takes you off and and then turning that into uh joy.
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Well, mic drop, and look at you, Bob Odenkirk, taking on the wings of death.
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Said you're not a hot sauce guy.
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I see no milk, not a sip of milk this entire time.
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Now, there's nothing left to do but roll out the red carpet for you, Bob.
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This camera, this camera, this camera, let the people know what you have going on in your life.
22:58
Oh, um Lucky Hank is a new show.
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It's comedy and drama mixed even Steven. Comes on AMC March 19th.
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It's an amazing cast, beautiful, funny, funny actors in every direction.
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So, I hope you'll give it a try and stick with it.
23:19
And in October, thing I'm proudest of in the world, I wrote a book with my kids and my daughter did the illustrations.
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It's called Zillet and other important rhymes. It's poems for kids.
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I wrote them with my kids when they were little.
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We would write a poem together, silly one.
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And then some of them were good and I kept them around and then when my daughter grew up, she's an artist and she just did the drawings for them.
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So, please watch for that if you have anyone between three and eight in your house or soon to be. THANK YOU. GREAT JOB. YOU DID IT. THANK YOU.
24:14
THAT was uh far more uh entertaining and fun than I thought it would be.
24:20
[ __ ] Hello, I'm camera guy Bill.
24:35
Well, I'm the kind of cowboy who likes to sauce his wings, but I need a brand new flavor to make these taste insane.
24:40
Classic chili maple, let's roll it down the line.
24:41
All aboard, it's Canadian time.
24:44
Would you look at that coming round the bend?
24:46
A dash chili freezer from Smoke & Ed's.
24:48
Sauce is loose, runaway caboose.
24:50
Hotter than a babe on a moose.
24:53
For a Great Northern a great northern staple, chili maple made with real maple syrup, making you holler on your stirrups. Yeehaw!
25:03
First to face, got the sweet heat.
25:03
Get on up and dance on your feet.
25:06
First to face, got the sweet heat.
25:09
Get on up and dance on your feet.
25:12
Sweet and refreshing to keep your senses guessing with the tangy apple cider, tons of bucking rodeo rider. Woah there. Look out.
25:22
Lasso some fun the honky-tonks just begun.
25:24
Get permission from your mom, go to heatmeats. com. Woah!
25:31
For a great northern staple, try that classic chili maple. Yeehaw!
25:41
For a great northern staple, try that classic chili maple. Suey! Yeehaw! Y'all come back now.