sounding great man sounding great in 2023 sounding great throughout looking great happy to have you in the studio as always my hero how are you man we're back together again we're back together [Music] again welcome back to Los Angeles after traveling around yeah you know I come back to LA and it's like H City of Dreams you know city city of uh people living on
the street in tents and exactly and you know the waitress is hotter than anybody I've ever met in my life but you know is really bored get taking my order and you know I love it here I'm still depressed right I mean that's the whole point isn't it I mean you can find depression in every crevice of the city if you go looking for it but you had some dreams
attached to the city at one point you had a little spot you made it home from a minute I lived here at different times yeah I do love La I really do yeah um I still remember coming out here in ' 89 when I was in bu and kind of I went up to is it the Griffith Observatory and remember were looking over the city you had that I'm I'm going to come back and own this
place I I did I have a picture from that day and you could see it in my eye I'm like I'm coming back here can I tell you something man I was staying at the London hotel on the Strip which has a beautiful view if you get the right room over the valley that heads towards the ocean and I did exactly the same thing I stood on that balcony I was like I'm going come back here and make this city
feel real small you did as did you you did you're running you're running this joint as they used to say no I'm doing all right man I'm happy I'm look as long as I get to to to continue to to play music from the people that inspire me and connect and tell that story I'm super sto we've done it for many years man and it was really cool hearing you
know watching you walk in the room while we played that and knowing it was going out all over the world can you remember the first time that you ever heard your song on the radio uh well you know there was like you get played on College radio but it didn't mean anything because there were only seven hipsters listening or something I do remember I do have a very clear memory of
um uh driving down the road in Chicago and was listening to whatever station and all of a sudden Cher Brock started and it just sounded so massive oh dude you know what I mean oh yeah D and it was like oh yeah like beautiful day you know you're like I'm here man I'm this is awesome I mean talk about a statement intro I mean it's like 45 seconds before the before Jimmy's even lit off the
leash yeah but the thing is is um you know radio I mean it obviously has different forms these days but it's still the same idea there's something about the right song on the right day that just seals that moment something about the DJ and you know what I mean it's like you're doing it right part of what you do is hey trust me to turn you on to what's really happening and
there's something about the relationship between the DJ and the moment calling the song and here it comes that stuff never gets old never gets old I was talking some to about this to someone yesterday and and we were talking about why we still connect to ra why I'm still connected to radio and haven't just gone full podcast mode full playlist mode you
know broken it down into its individual components and I still like the unity of it all right the idea that we can have a sort of podcast in a radio environment with a song and I said the reason is that when I play a song I I've never known who's listening even when I was at the BBC and I had Peak sort of appointment listening era time like now you just got to move with the people
back then the people came to you right you had the records you had the time slot you got millions of people I never knew one of them I never could see anyone and it was never the point the point was the connection to the music and the feeling that I was somehow able to your point share and experience what's that what you're never going to know who I'm talking about her name's
Joe she's like a famous UK DJ Joe Wy right I was on the Joe Wy show beautiful you know and you know she's such a sweetheart and she said I'll play anything you want and I said okay okay and it was live on the air I said let's play Rain In The Summertime by the alarm beautiful and she goes kind of like why that song and even her staff assistant they all kind of made a face right I said trust
me so they played the song they said their social media lit up and everybody wrote In what a great song I don't know this song how come I've never heard this song right yeah that's the power of that moment and here you have somebody who knows their game and even she was like you want to play that song it's my favorite thing to do and amongst all the new music he knows this to be able to
say but have you heard hum everyone's like who's hum oh don't get me started on hum I got my hum issues I know you do I know you got my hum issues I know you do from Champagne Illinois I believe yeah that's right that's right yeah yeah it was it was uh good band though good band man you know no shade but you know little little close to the Bone here and
there listen I know what I'm doing as as as Chino Moreno once said to me I went to see he had a like a sideband yeah team sleep right so I went to see Team sleep and I never met Chino in my life and I go backstage to pay my respect to say hi and as soon as I walk through the door Chino looks at me he goes recognize some of the riffs I love that because I've had
conversations with Chino about that you know he's a made of M now I'm grateful to say that and and because they're one of my favorite bands of time Real Deal real deal and um and they just get like yourselves they just get better and better the more they find themselves the more they know themselves the further they willing to travel each time and um there's there's definitely moments on
there I'm like God that's that's got a little Billy toour and he's just like come on man what do you want me to tell you he's what me to tell you you know yeah God bless God bless you seem to have um found a way to play along and as you as you've kind of matured as an artist as well like in the beginning have you but you know we talk about Chino and and we talk about bands
and I know that you've been you've been you know supportive to a lot I see you in photos with other artists I never would have you were not that guy when I first met you you were like you were so competitive every was en including you yeah yeah although I killed you with kindness out you did you did uh you always have a soft spot in my heart but uh no everybody was the enemy I I I'll
take responsibility but the business was set up that way yeah yeah the beautiful thing about the way the business works is it really should be artists supporting other artists like for example we just did uh ruled as a vampire in Australia Amal and the sniffers I don't know if you know that this is classic right I hear all the hype she's the new Iggy Pop she's
the female this she's the blah blah blah that and I'm thinking I've heard this so many times it doesn't mean I was doubtful but I I I'll wait till I see with my own eyes I looked at her for 10 seconds on stage and I said holy mother God this is a true rock star for sure great band and that's the power of rock and roll so somebody asked me after I saw them play an interview you know kind
of what do you think and I said see this is the problem with comparisons there's only one of her yeah there's not she's not anybody that's why she's a star there's I call it one of one yeah she's one of one yeah I think that's what people really are after but you know we live in this business where it's like sounds like yeah what we're doing is we're creating an identity for you and
all you're trying to do is find your own so it creates this conflict where you're like I'm Billy Corgan and this is my band and we're Outsiders and have been from day one and we're all trying to get you on the inside right we're all like ah they sound like this they do this they compared to this they're compared to that and you know you're right I was
the enemy you know I I've been a part of that experience as a young broadcaster or whatever trying to find my way to put context around things I think context is a bit overrated when it comes to you know artists in some respects well it's it's difficult because you know we're all stretched for time and when you're on a streaming services and and you look
and go if you like this you like this too and I'll click on those sometimes and I'm often pleasantly surprised so it's not the worst thing but Contex like when we started people were like I remember reading reviews uh they're like a weird cross between The Black Crows you know what I mean You' be like the black crows no no shade to the Robinson Brothers but huh the pumpkins he like
the black crows yeah now you were way more goth in that to me certainly on Gish I felt like you were you were like America's new sort of Gothic alternative super super I love me some goth yeah I mean to me there was more of a it was more of a direct connection if we're going to play that game to Wayne hussy than there was to Chris Robin I was just talking to Wayne husy about a week ago
actually Wayne's a bit of a mate and uh I you know what I like about the world that's coming is is The Gatekeepers are dead and now people are figuring out who the real bands are so you know when I used to make the case for eeko and the bunnyman or Sisters of Mercy or Susan the Banshees or whatever people are like yeah yeah yeah but of course they knew the band that was the
ation band that sold a lot more records y now that that all that's dying now so that's good because the real the real OG bands are going to get their due uh hopefully for some it won't be too late but at the at the end of the day as long as they get their due um and you see it even out out right now with Suzie back touring you know for the first time in
10 years she's getting her du she's a super important Pioneer K Bush one of one one of one Su one of one Robert Smith one of one Ian mccullick one of one I like ino's new book he cops a little bit to the the bunnyman influence yes just a little bit I liked that too I enjoyed that book I'm I'm reading it now I really enjoyed it I thought it was really good and I and I think you know
that's a band where the road traveled my days I mean and still and still traveling and I thought you know he had so much ground to cover and he accepted responsibility for some of the things that the world felt were misses and but he did so in a way that was like what is life lived if not the way the book I'm still reading it I'm nothing specific nothing specific can I tell you a good
story a little accountability a good YouTu story yeah I'm over in Dublin Circa 2000 and I go to visit Bono at his house it's aor no it's later Machina times we stayed up all night and in the morning for some reason me and him are the only people up and he says I want to play you something we're going to have to go out in the car cuz I don't want to
wake the house up so it's me and him like freezing in the driveway and he pops in he's playing me what became the it's a beautiful day album and it's kind of not all the way there but sort of there and he goes tell me honestly what you think I'm like you really want me to give you my opinion and I told them what I thought and they actually used my advice and he and he let me know later
like hey we used your advice and I thought he was just being nice you know and then you heard it so fast forward a couple years I'm somewhere and I run into Edge in a hotel and we're waiting for an elevator how you doing mate good to see you dog and he goes hey I got to tell you that advice you gave on that stuff really helped it's like me are you are you
kidding me this is is the biggest insight though for people that that misunderstand you know this aspect of you to I think you just gave a really powerful observation which is not only do they deeply care about their music like deeply deeply care almost to the point I think of implosion um but they are also fantastic collaborative Spirits like they are open
to that and when Bono asks you he's deep he's genuinely serious it ain't some kind of fake entertainment show he wants to win which is something admirable in him and um he's not too shy to take an opinion speaking of winning you you've done a lot about you know done a lot of losing too yeah but you know what though man again that's life lived right that's that's that's a life lived and and when
you you know you've also built a lot of your journey around the concept of competition we talked about the competitive beginnings of the pumpkins that moment on Griffith um you know leaning into wrestling which is you know more playful side of it but still deeply competitive and again misunderstood in terms of how serious people take it right people think it's Panama it's not
as deeply serious you know that you're invested you know and and you know I wonder where what winning and and that side of your personality how you what is your relationship with that now at this point with the pumpkins well I think it starts with God I think you have to understand that God gives you an opportunity in life and if you believe in God like I do I think God wants
everybody to win not just people who've been touched on the head with some ability to sing a silly song right I think God wants everybody to win so as I like to say a lot Live Your Dream so when you talk about the competitive Spirit if God gave me Talent then then then the competitive spirit in that would be I I I want to win the Super Bowl but not at the expense of someone
else I want a fair fight and if I beat you I beat you so you know you know me well enough to know that when it's all a said done I want the pumpkin standing on the top of the Heap of Our Generation and if that means I got to write 800 songs to do it I'll do it I ain't shy about that I will go down always to saying Kurt was the most talented guy of Our Generation Kurt had
so much talent it's like frightening yeah it was like a John Lenin level of talent where you're like how can you have all this Talent OR Prince Right but Kurt's not here you know sadly so you know so I looked around I was like all right well I could beat the rest of him for sure you know it's not only C man it it sometimes I catch myself listening to
my favorite albums from that era that's cuz you're getting old oh dude getting little gray in the beard I'm embracing it bro I love it I'm into it I'm very happy where I stand and I think it's important as you mature that you can find a way to let go of those so sort of old again those old kind of like uh sort of just tense competitive things and like find a way to compete in the
right way but getting back to my point like I'll be like oh my gosh he's not here she's not here here he's not here crazy right he's not here I mean I think about someone like you and Eddie and the chili peppers and some of the people who are still here and um and I just feel like wow I mean it shouldn't have ended like that it shouldn't it shouldn't have been just a few of you left standing
well Gen X is definitely a Lost Generation you know and now we're creating a new Lost Generation with like you know forcing kids in all sorts of weirdnesses but yeah it is what it is Gen X was The Lost Generation cuz our parents were too busy doing cocaine or yoga and you know we were in the basement watching gilan's island with nobody I mean I mean the amount of crazy
stuff we did because there was nobody there to tell us no I get it cuz I was I'm I'm Gen X and so love my folks but at the end of the day my imagination became my my guide for quite a formative part of my life yeah I I I still remain hopeful that Gen X has a second act I think somebody said the other day and I don't know if it's true like Gen X might
be the only generation ever to not have a president can you elaborate on that I think the idea is that no one who is Gen X it will actually become president wow that's true so now that might change yeah so when I'm president someday it's it's kind of frightening to think of actually you probably got a better chance of being president than me but I don't know Billy I don't know
they'll change the laws you know they since you're not from here wherever you're from local governance in Chicago you know what I mean fig oh my God don't even get me started on that I think I think uh Illinois is up there with California with people fleeing the state um Chicago is obviously a big part it's a shame because I was born in Chicago yeah and look we're here in Los
Angeles Los Angeles is struggling with its own issues with with trying to assimilate let's call it the new America and I'm all for it like let's build a great new America but we're in that weird period that you know England went through it you know Australia's had a struggles New Zealand every every country has that moment where you got you know whether you got to forgive the
sins of the past um anyway we don't need to go down all those rabbit but where do you want to go it's a good question and I think I think that's what I've been saying to people as well it's just like you know we're in we're in deep struggle right now but uh it's it's how we come out of it and and and what kind of self- winess do we have really I think I'm all for it if at the
end of the day everybody gets an equal seat at the table that's that's that's my that's my easily stated position like everybody deserves a seat at the table like I said if you're a Godly person you believe everybody has a divine right so um and then your job as a person is to figure out how you can contribute is that like is that is that would you
consider that a form of libertarianism is that basically what you're kind of referring to um it doesn't feel like Roman Catholicism that's for sure um it's probably more Pagan honestly I'm more of a pagan I was raised Roman Catholic but I'm more of a pagan that's true because we spoke about that on one of our virtual conversations during quarantine and you you made a playlist
and there was some songs in there that reflected that that passion that you have um that deep folk music and that that era of music that that you know actually weaves its way into this new album to some degree as well there's there's a lot of scales and a lot of um musicianship and instrumentation in here which I think somehow modernizes almost a sort of broke level of influence I was
listen to a lot of Bach I did some crazy thing where I I found a complete Bach which is like 800 hours a Bo make it sound like ever no I'm saying for like so for months I literally listen to Bo like like like Bach you didn't know existed like you know like deep dive B were there moments when you were deep in Bach world where you were like man I'm really putting myself through it like it
wasn't enjoyable anymore it was more just a challenge well there's a lot of that stuff that was written quickly and it was more performative like he had to write a Canada for a church thing so he was like Hey you sing this song with this weird piano part and you're like what song is this yeah and then there's other stuff that like hits you sideways
and you're like oh my God and then it's the opposite you realize he wrote this music on the Fly and it's this insane piece of music that's such a high level of musicianship so somehow that gets in my my bones it's cool that you get to be able to go and and allow yourself the space to be able to immerse yourself in the complete bark um as we've discovered at Apple and this
isn't a promo this is genuinely a fact we found that um navigating through classical music in particular was a complete and utter nightmare because what act differentiates another and where do you even begin so you should subscribe to Apple music classical my friends I've heard about it and in fact friends have highly recommended it so I I'm here to endorse I I haven't tried it
yet but I've I've heard the Endor it's incredible yeah yeah yeah um what role does modern music play in your your life very little yeah why is that do you think I have a theory which is um it's easy to get grumpy if you if you listen to M modern music and you go I don't get it it's not speaking to me yeah um but I kind of come around to this other side which
is kids and you know 20s something's making music they're making music that's reflective of the world they're looking at well if the world is insane and vapid and cruel and Hollow and and not very nice well that's how they end up making music that sounds like that do they feel that or are they reflecting their environment I I'm not sure you don't have to answer that well
no I'm just I'm just I I think it's both I think there's a this connective tissue between the two and I think sometimes the chicken in the egg it can reverse roles yeah and I'm not looking I I'm 56 years old with two little kids you know I'm more likely to hear SpongeBobs you know nighttime Cruise you know then I am uh the latest Jam from p and the
well no because I'm telling you because it's what's interesting is like we're going to dive into I want to make sure I CU you this where you play me a new song Put me on the spot yeah but it's okay I'm going to put me on the spot because you're going to tell me honestly what you think but I um I want to make sure because then we're going to come back and we're going to Deep dive into this
body of work and I want to Ure I'm pronouncing it correct how do you pronounce artum artum so it's interesting you know people talk about an artist like Yeet and they get lost in um some of the lyrics which are youthful and could be perceived as being ignorant definitely some of them are um but then you know they also forget that actually sonically and production wise and
feeling wise there's a lot of Yearning to reflect the time going on and you succinctly sum that up before the idea of modern music reflecting the times so what is this person really saying so what I try to do is is along with the people on the team is listen to my kids who are 16 or 14 and rather than just like listen to the music they play ask them why it moves them and I think to
your point um you know it really is a combination of both so I want to know what you think of that I hear someone struggling with the disassociative world um I understand why people have ripped Society apart whether it's gender the idea of like what is a marriage and all this stuff all those things need to be examined hard I have no problem with people ripping stuff apart so what I
hear is an artist struggling how to put those ripped apart pieces back together cuz the human Spirit at the end of the day wants to be standing on a black beach in New Zealand looking at the stars and saying I'm whole I'm complete I know what the hell I'm doing here that seems very far away right now there right okay right so for a lot of people ain't no beach ain't no stars ain't no
future so but they're still feeling all the human impulses who am I who's going to love me if I'm myself or whatever I'm not saying that's this artist Journey but that's what I hear yeah I hear a bunch of broken pieces so what you hear is what on the surface sounds like an abusive technology right like the autotune ain't working right m the loops are actually
out of time but I don't think that's on purpose as in a hey let's be clever and do this that's a this is making me feel something that's fresh and it feels like right now and I think that for a lot of people right now that's their experience particularly of the world that we're in it just I look out my window and I see I I see the same McDonald's and I see the same Geico
advertisement but it don't feel the same anymore but I don't know what that means like where's that go and everybody can paint a nice picture where it's going to go but we all know it's probably not going to get there and it ain't going to look like everybody's talking about the Gen X version was hey what you told us marriage is we know that ain't working
that ain't working what you told us is the 9 to-5 job that ain't going to work and by the way you didn't even choose to parent us yeah yeah so we don't even know what to do going back to somebody like Kurt Kurt highly Kurt Cain highly intelligent person why do his lyrics sound like Anam manaia child Rhymes cuz in my estimation he was searching for that disassociative feeling the riddlin
generation of like the add like why are you making me sit in this classroom all day come on over and do the twist right I mean yeah because we all grew up listening to Chubby Checker hey man just do the twist everything's going to be all right yeah yeah yeah yeah but I love you so much it makes me sick I mean this was yeah I mean yeah those two things combine together say everything to your
point to his talent yeah so my version of disassociative as through the years is a little bit more complicated which makes bearded journalists from Brooklyn you know uh have to go to their therapist you know what I mean cuz cuz cuz my my version of putting the pieces back together they don't like I do cuz it Doesn't End my version doesn't end with a cool t-shirt
and the right must my ends with something that's more akin to a traditional value but not because I think the Traditional Values are best there's something in the human condition that at the end of the day believes in Union and believes in family and believes in community and that's what I always always got from listening to your records and actually was was and remains
one of the most emotional parts of that of the of the pumpkins puzzle is that you are dedicated to resolve absolutely resolution and that you search for healing so that's my big argument tear it apart break it into a million pieces because it deserves to be broken but tell me how you're going to put it back together breaking stuff apart is the easiest thing in the world to do that's
it's easy show me what it looks like when you put it back together because then we can work on that together M the the the tearing apart it's like here's a sledgehammer okay you know it really strikes me at this point having followed your journey as a fan of your music and talked to intermittently over the course of the last nearly 30 years crazy crazy right
we're still here God bless that um there were moments in time when the trail for us went cold you disappeared I didn't talk to you probably seven or eight years where I wasn't sure we'd get you back at all I wasn't sure I was coming back let alone like this where I feel that you are dedicated to the idea of repair and that's what this album in a lot of ways
is is searching for as well this idea of answers maybe not on this Earth but but some connection that period where you and I didn't talk for a time and I was lost actually a lot of those years I was lost in La yeah um the issue for me wasn't you know you get in these boardrooms and it' be like uh bro make Siamese Dream too and everything will be okay it's like no no no you don't
understand that ain't going to solve the bigger problem you know I mean it's it's it the biggest mistake the entertainment business uh makes over and over again is it only deals with the known but artists true artists like the person you were playing true artists are seeking something that doesn't exist yeah it's super uncomfortable yeah well because the industry there's no um
Financial Security in the unknown no of course not so it's like we got to try and put this into a into a framework we can understand so so they're more likely to reward a sociopath who will stand where they want him to stand say what they want them to say and do what they want them to do and so that those years were to some degree you disc connecting from that experience
and trying to find where you truly stood well I built something that was successful and it endures if you want to you want to go 91 to whatever you can pick those albums yeah once you hit the phow ground okay it's not you you got to go back to the bottom but you're not that same person anymore I'm not the kid living in a rehearsal space in St Petersburg Florida in 85 sorry you know
I mean I got a nice house so those days that you and I weren't talking I'm staring out a window and going do I even care because by the way no one cares about me nobody was calling me up you know what I mean it wasn't like the biggest names in the business were like bro where are you come back we miss you in fact a lot of my generational Brethren and sister didn't care if I
came back cuz that was one more person off the chess board that they didn't have to beat or compete with yeah when Kurt died I cried because I lost my greatest opponent I want to beat the best I don't want to win the championship because it's just me and a bunch of jabronies to use a wrestling term it's like what is Michael Jordan the greatest arguably the
greatest sports competitor I'll ever see in my lifetime right I mean you want to talk about an alpha that guy wanted to win like the valet tip you know what I mean it's my favorite part of the last dance and it happens two or three times every single episode where they'll put another example of did you overstep the line with your competitive streak here and he gives a A variation of the exact
same response which is like if you want to be the best just this is what you got to do and just deal with it or don't and I don't apologize for it and it's a variation one after the other of that it's incredible at the end of it I watch it all the way I watched 10 hours of it on a plane the other day nonstop fifth time I've seen it best time I've seen it and by the end
of it I was like I got to stop asking him that question he's going to give the same answer every time if you want to be the best and compete against the best and win and actually win something and your and your value system is based on God tell me the right way to do this right this the music business ain't going to give you any answers right so that's how you end up
with artists doing disassociative music because they're caught between worlds and just the way it is so that's back to your original question when I hear music like that I hear that artist struggling with I'm here I've made it I'm in the game and that's Zan loow is listening everything's hopping baby but that is why the kids are responding to it to the way they are God bless them
because they are feeling the disassociation within that music and it speaks to them and they don't feel quite so alone and that is where you fit in and Kurt fits in and Petty Smith fits in and greats fit in EO and the bunnyman fit in because you make this music that when I was on that beach trying to fit in I had ocean rain I was like this is going to be My Ticket to Ride don't hate
the player hate the game did you ever meet Jordan or did you ever oh yeah oh yeah you got a good Jordan story I got a few Michael stories I'll tell you I'll tell you something that comes to mind so um uh I was friendly with people in the team atmosphere uh I was friends with the assistant trainer who I'm still friends with to this day and uh that
particular season which was Michael's second season before he retired and obviously came back with the wizards but I went to like think 16 playoff games in a row even including the road games I was flying with the team I was staying in the team hotels I was around it I was going to dinner with players I mean I was deep in it I was getting the analysis on you know this guy we know
this guy can't hit the jump shot I mean I was in it basically the Not That season but the season before so they win the championship in Chicago I get invited in the locker room it's just family team and me and you know couple journalists yeah it's you know it's crazy like you see on TV champagne everybody you know just they're they're all yeah we did it we
did it it's a big moment right you won a championship so after about 30 minutes of that I'm like okay it's a bit intense it's not my party either but I'm happy to be there I got a picture of me holding the trophy the whole thing right it's all good man life is good Billy corgan's all good with being in the blls locker room so at some point like you do at a party I was like okay I need a
break so I went to like the wait room just to catch a breath I'm in there by myself okay here comes Mike smoking a cigar and it's just me and Mike cuz he's doing the same thing so he's and he looks at me and he knows me a little bit Yeah and uh and I I even hung out with him one night so it's like but it it's his moment I mean it is his moment and he gives me that look
like I'm cool with you being here with me but let me have my space like just that look like we cool I was like we cool so it's just me and Mike for like a minute nothing said just hanging out and he's just you know he's he's you can see him process ing whatever's just happened he allowed me to share that moment with him I'm like this is pretty cool
right one minute goes by I wish it was 500 minutes here comes everybody cuz it's him yeah here comes the Press Mike Mike Mike and you could just see him shaking his head CU he only got that one minut this moment is gone but he allowed me to share that moment with him that's what's cool about Mike Mike operates on these other levels that most people will never see and I've been
around him enough little bit to see that other level and if you know that level you understand the intellect that drove the whole rest of the kingdom and continues to drive it that's why he's the best I'm not stupid enough to ever create a hierarchy of my favorite band's favorite songs especially when the founding member and songwriter of my favorite band who wrote
those favorite songs is sitting in front of me in throwback zero hoodie but I'm just going to say got to sell the merch bro I always I always want I'm glad you put it back on sale it's got a hoodie so got the full you got the full the full modern day Billy Vibe but you know that one is a special one for me um because that is one that I go to when I'm really down oh I don't you get down very much
so I don't I don't go to the ones that necessarily take me deeper I go to the one that I want to try and drag me by the Scruff and they and out you know yeah and and I feel like that's such an achievement muzzle because you created a song that is so overwhelmingly optimistic and like I'm going to climb that mountain when I get the top I'm going to raise my arms
up and I'm going to reach as high as I can for something I can't see and you pulled it off yeah you pulled it off it's really hard yeah but then that guy got lost you see what I mean so I I think about like what happened afterwards but you but you gave it to us good but I'm saying is is in the in in the aggregate Journey yeah that's one moment where you're like okay I get it I
got it and then uh it's like that great quo book The Alchemist right you got to you the whole whole story of the book is you got to go back and you got to dig under the tree that you were standing next to at the beginning huh I figured out by the time I was 28 everything I ever needed to know in this crazy world of music and entertainment yeah and I lost it and I regained it and I figured
it back out and now I figured it out a different way that has a lot to do with family including the family of the band yeah which is a very important piece of this of this era I mean you have blessed us with Incredible music in the last few years we've talked about it you continue to be productive um you hold on to the to the founding members of the band that
that remain and Jeff as well which is beautiful so it wasn't like hey in through the outdoor it's like no man this is the crew this is the this is our 5.0 I was trying to count them this morning when I was getting ready to come to work I was like I think they're at a 5.0 well you know deep purple used to call it mock so we're mock five you're mark five right you're mark five and and
you're exploring territory like I said as a writer and and from a concept point of view which you which people at this point in their lives just are not doing um you are moving into that into that world that of the bands that I think truly inspired you you know the rushers and the bands that kind of were unafraid to keep pushing boundaries and you
refuse to settle refuse it's just not in me I I think I think if I ever was to wake up and look in the mirror and think i' I'd given up and we as we used to say phone it in yeah I think that would be the end of me like psychologically yeah yeah just it's just not the way I'm wired so when you're immersed in a threea album and you and you're trying to create a through line which there is
by the way yeah remarkably given how much music is on this record um how don't how do you stop yourself from getting lost how do you find your way out you don't I I think uh and I'm not trying to be disingenuous with my answer think of Life as a journey um Jimmy Chamberlain the great drummer of The pumpkins when I was struggling as a young parent not young me my kids being
young um I wrote him in a moment of desperation and he said the thing about parenting is there's going to be good days and bad days and you just want to have more good days than bad days beautiful advice right yeah my friend gave it to me a slightly different way he said to me there are two types of dads in the world there's good Dads and Dick dads just try not to be a dick dad
as much as possible so when you ask about making an album over two years of 33 songs there's a lot of bad days yeah you're like no one's going to Care uh even if this is great you're going to get the bad review from the guy in Brooklyn you know they're still going to have a go at you for something you said 17 years ago when you were joking by the way cuz we
live in this stupid world you got to like you got to believe in something deeper and I I love that you mentioned rush for example the message Jimmy and I got from bands like rush and yes or whatever was that there's an aspirational aspect to music that has no commercial value yeah like why um somebody like uh Kubrick who was capable of making you know very successful Hollywood movies
why did he import like palm trees from Vietnam to La so it looked right when no one would even known the difference like what is that it's a certain kind of uh affirmational faith that if I do things a certain way it all kind of work out do you know who I think has that from from roughly your generation is Tom I think Tom York gets it I think he he can I
jump in yeah and and I Want To Praise Him here when radio had made the shift from like hey they sounded like every other UK alternative band with their song you know we we had very little respect for what they were doing cuz we just saw them as another band doing the I'm a yeah nemy band and even he had the kind of like the the Pompa do hair there and the
whole thing when he C when he when he made his pivot wisely so with his band to what they became which is the great band I found myself thinking he figured something out before you which is it's better to be this than the other thing and at that moment when they started doing it which was like 97 97 Okay computer and then they went Swift into kid a and it was like where are you now
and what was interesting about that and I'm now speaking by myself was I found myself flat-footed because I didn't see that coming because I was so disconnected from what was happening cuz I'm on all these Mega tours yeah yeah you're on the top of the but by the way you you you're riding the biggest wave of War at that point oh yeah so um credit because really radio had figured
out the world that was coming pretty much before every band on the planet and and they reaped the reward of that and did a lot of great work in in in essence anticipating this disassociative world I was at a a music conference once and I didn't mean it pejoratively I I called radio head laptop Rock and the crowd gasped because it was that moment where
you weren't allowed to criticize radio head right and I wasn't criticizing I was saying is as people made the shift towards listening to music off the their laptops and list watching their email and in what you know whatever social media music takes on a different role more Enos esque yeah which is you know you know music for airports and music for the world that we're living I was
making for music for a world that was basically dead and dying but I was the last to get the memo so I really credit them with figuring that out um and I'm not saying I wanted to make laptop Rock but there's something pretty cool about figuring out that music was going to be more Environmental un less uh standing on the beach with a cassette deck I think what what where we
find you today with this album and wherever the future takes you and this tour where you're getting to bring all your passions together and do something that no one's done before which is like hey you know all that standing around time in between bands let's fight yeah you know and I love it because what it is is it's like now we're getting a true genuine confident self-confident I
should say reflection of who you are and what truly drives you and this album to me is the most internal um experience in terms of where you want to take us not where you think we want you to go the rest of my life is about that I think there comes a moment in every artist's life where you have to stop serving and it's more about your own individual
journey and if you and if you have faith in yourself which you should I should have after all these years then then you should trust that there's enough there for somebody to pay attention to there's there's something about the act of servitude which is fine when you're young and you want to win great you do the thing you got to do and you say the
thing that's fine but there comes a point where it gets a little bit skey you know you don't want to be the old goth guy at at the club for too long is that did that sum it up yeah beautifully we've all seen that audience you know what I mean dude I had to make that call I was I was I'm not going to be the guy DJing in this club and you know like man 10 years ago I had to make
that call I was like there's something else out there I need to go explore or risk or otherwise because being here in 10 years time is not that not is not it so on a much smaller scale I get it um I'm always so happy and excited to see you which is crazy because I even read a recent article that came out either the beginning of this year or end of last year and it started with the same old
like you may know Billy is the guy in the 90s just said this this this this and it was just like oh God man I mean he just must be smirking through this whole thing but but then they were very very very very sort of respectful let me stop you there for a second why do they need to keep qualif exactly I recently was doing an interview with rolling stone and the guy
thought I was complaining and I had to explain to him like look your world is hanging on to a part of me that's long gone I run a tea house I run a wrestling company I got two little kids I got a lot of other stuff going on the missing thrope has left the building yeah he's gone you got plenty of albums there if you want to listen there's plenty of YouTube videos of me complaining do you
know who said this beautifully and I I think this is a really nice way to put it when I when I spent when I spoke to Neil Young most recently was Neil and Rick and up at sh was really awesome and um there was a bit of encouragement to discuss Harvest cuz we getting into a an anniversary and I and I always follow Neil's lead which I learned very quickly
the first time I spoke to him was always follow Neil's lead right don't listen to anybody else just being the present moment was Neil he'll tell you exactly where he wants to go and so he allowed a quick quick brief discourse about Harvest and then he did that beautiful thing where he went you know man that guy's still around you know he's still around he's back there listen to that album
rocking back and forth proud of what he made loving it feeling feeling that way about that record there's been thousands of guys since then this is the latest one sitting here right in front of you we should talk about him but all those other thousands of guys they're still around they're having a great time and it was just all of a sudden I just saw life in Pages as opposed to this one
like constant desire to write a new page it's like it's okay it is the book it is the book that that that that Joe talked about you know it's the book yeah I'm I'm I'm struggling with a good way to respond cuz I know exactly what you mean I think it's like [Music] um are you who you think you are are you who you want to be are you who mommy wanted you to be are you all the above
right the thing about being in public life is it changes you it does something to your DNA put it this way if you stood on stage in front of 30,000 th000 50,000 100,000 people it changes your dopamine a friend of mine told me the other day that he' done so much ecstasy that he had no more serotonin left okay my response to Life's critical stress is a little bit different because
I face down 50,000 people giving me a middle finger and I encourage them to do so it fries something out in your brain but it in its wake it leaves another thing so the Neil Young that made Harvest isn't the Neil Young making the album today but yes that guy's in there but it's not the same so um it's not asking the public to understand it's
just it's just the way it is it's what he was saying he was saying this is just how it is I don't feel any kind of way about it all I know is that the guy sitting here in front of you now giving you Gentle ribbing about being in tick is me and uh you should enjoy that me cuz I'm here and I'm present you know yeah I I tell fans sometimes fans I talk to I I have a private account on
Instagram so I talk to fans regularly but they're trusted and verified let's put it that way there's about 50 or 70 of them I talked it's William the Conqueror and it's his wrestling alternative no but um you know I I joke with them because you know in exchange for their access to ask me you know the SI zombie questions you know um you know I'll tell them you're going to miss me
when I'm gone and what I mean by that is is when I when I leave the chessboard for um you know I I know what I'm leaving behind I realize that they can't quite understand what that means does that translate to you as somebody who's known me for 30 years yes I think it also for me puts in perspective how you relate to those versions of yourself and and give
yourself a purpose of being happy now it's like it's cool like you you'll miss that guy we've all seen the movie where a a common person is put into an extraordinary circumstance and they must respond okay I was Ill prepared for fame I wanted it I encouraged it I bled for it but when it came I was like oh my God this is weird and it's never stopped being
weird I'm not saying I'm a normal person I'm not saying I'm an extraordinary person I'm just a person who was put in the situation it changed me and so I don't need to apologize for it but I'm just a nerd you know what I mean I am we're going to miss you when you're gone you're going to miss me when I'm gone I'll still call you though yeah I was going to say don't go anywhere [Music] [Music]