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You're in control. You. You.
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You decide what you consume.
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You decide what you believe.
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You decide who you surround yourself with.
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You decide what you put out. Take on accountability.
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Everybody wants to blame right now.
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Gary, it's been 3 years since I've seen you, man. It's been way too long. It's nice to be back.
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It's nice to be back, man. We're always back here.
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This is like I think the third time I've interviewed you in this room.
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And it's just it's always awesome when I hear from you, when we're in touch, man.
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So, I'm hoping that we can kick that off again. I'd love it. Yeah, I love it.
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I want to start off I have to ask you I've got a ton of questions.
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I know we've got limited amount of time.
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I want to start off asking how was VeeCon?
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I was watching it looked amazing.
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I was following everything online. It was great.
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We um we're really happy with it.
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I've been telling a lot of my friends and family like you know, I really held back a lot.
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Meaning it was since it was the first time I didn't know what I was getting into. So, it went super well.
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Um which has me crazy excited for the next one. It was educational. It was about community.
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Um it felt right and now I think I can build off of that base. I I like context a lot.
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And so, I needed to contextualize throwing an event of that size.
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Now that I've calibrated, I think about it like a like a fighter.
1:14
The first round they want to feel each other out.
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You want to take that first punch.
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Can you take the guy or gal's power?
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Um now that we've done that, I feel like I can be even more ambitious with the next one.
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So, it was it was really good. Nice, man.
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Yeah, the people I know that went as not as speakers, but as visitors they had a great time. I'm glad.
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So, yeah, just so you know.
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that's been the universal take which is for a first year event at that size, I'll take it.
1:39
Your team posted this beautiful video is literally yesterday and I was just I was scrolling through and it's this video of a moment between you and your dad. Yeah.
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And I was just like, you know, to hear that from your dad I'm going to read it out I I he said you don't even realize what you did on that stage.
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You completely changed my brain.
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And and then he said you're really special and we've seen moments with you and your dad on social a ton before, obviously."
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What was different about that moment?
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And and what was he What did you sideline afterwards by what it was about?
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challenging for me is like, you know, look, my dad's a very popular figure.
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I do a good job making him popular. He He's the best.
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But my dad and I are very different.
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My dad grew up with a very different mom than I did.
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My dad grew up in a very different place The USSR is not an optimistic place.
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You know, a lot of Americans and a lot of people listening around the world don't know this. The USSR was a jail.
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It wasn't only that it was a difficult country.
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We have difficult countries around the world. You couldn't leave.
2:38
You know, I'm not educated I think you can't leave North Korea, right?
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Like if you leave it, right? North Korea is the comp.
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Like you couldn't leave the USSR. So, that's called jail.
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And so, you know, he grew up in a very different place.
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That manifested in my father looking at his employees very differently than I do.
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Looking at the world differently.
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And um we had some very serious conversations in the last 96 hours because I made this connection point.
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I'm not going to put it on out there yet.
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I I I think that's for him to put out there if he wants to.
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But my last book, 12 and 1/2 Ingredients, what I realized when I wrote it was, "Oh, it's not just empathy.
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Oh, it's not just ambition.
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Like we're the makeup of like these three combos. These four combos.
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In this situation, these two combos."
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And what I think happened is there was one ingredient that my dad wasn't using in combination that if he starts using the way he has been the last two three days, A, everybody around him's going to be happier, but for me selfishly, he's going to be happier.
3:43
And it um I'm really glad that moment's connected.
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My dad's had stop and starts of like optimistic points of view in the past. We all have.
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I've had stops and starts with candor.
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Let me make it about myself.
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I've had I'm finally over the hump in the last 3 4 years.
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Um but uh it was a special moment and like I'm incredibly emotional about it because it could be a really big impact.
4:07
It was really beautiful to see, man. Thank you, brother.
4:08
And and I loved how your response was like, "Dad, you should have come earlier."
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And look, it's fun to do this with you because you're also one of the human beings on Earth that communicates in a way that helps people.
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It's a very heavy feeling to know that you can say something and can change someone's life.
4:27
You know, I think it's intoxicating.
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I think it's why a lot of therapists love their job.
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I think it's why a lot of people that are into meditation, I think it's why teachers love their job.
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I think it's why a lot of parents My mom had a real real sadness, empty nest when AJ left.
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She was a Hall of Fame mother.
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When he left, she didn't get to play her game, you know, like So, I think for many of us around the world, we do it publicly, but a lot of people do it privately or in small microclimates.
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There's nothing like saying something that provides someone else value.
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When that person ends up being some of the people you love the most, that goes to a different planet. Yeah.
5:02
No, it was really special and uh I think what you just said there, it accorded with me because I think we always want the answer to be like, "Well, should I be this or should I be that?" Right?
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You're talking about the opposites.
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And it's like, "Should I be affectionate or should I be assertive?"
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And it's like, "Be affectionate and be assertive." It's always and.
5:18
Something I've been really tapping into is and versus or. Yeah.
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I feel like I'm very affected because of our political temperature the last decade. You know, purple.
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America has been really told in many different ways, and it's a left and right issue. Yeah.
5:34
This is not picking on any one party. It's just the climate.
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It's the popular culture.
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I'm watching my friends and acquaintances and business associates change their opinion on issues cuz they feel they have to be 100% red or 100% blue.
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It's it's incredibly devastating to me. I know where they stand.
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I'm watching them change their mind cuz they're treating it as a tribe, and the answer's purple. Yeah.
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And so purple, and versus or, this is a lot of the work I'm working on within myself, through my content, affecting my team, um and then, you know, you know, family, team, employees, the world, you know, I'm spending a lot of time on it.
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And that's why that book was so fun for me, because, you know, I'm an enigma. I confuse people. I'm a contradiction.
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People struggle with it, and I see it as the strength.
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It is the end that makes me work.
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Like, I want to build the biggest companies of all time, yet I haven't come across a lot of people who really, genuinely, naturally, DNA, I'm not special, luck of the draw, really want everyone else to win.
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Like, I'm really about that life.
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I love that you just said that, because I had a really dear friend who I respect, who's who we both know, who's who's who's very accomplished in their own world.
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He said to me recently, he said to me, Jay, the reason why I love having conversations with you is because I can have a spiritual conversation, we can then switch to strategy, and then we can talk about content.
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And he's like, I appreciate that you're one person that we can go there.
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And I was And that gave me permission to be that.
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Because, by the way, I'm the same paradox.
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People are like, well, you used to be a monk, but now you do media, and you manage companies, and people can't not always figure that out.
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Like, but I am all of them, and I'm okay with that, and I'd rather be all of them than have to choose one. 100%.
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And And a lot of people don't like juggling six balls, and I think that's awesome.
7:27
I think life needs to be talked way more around self-awareness and self-love.
7:30
Like, I can't pick one thing.
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Gary, so many of my friends, well-intended, most accomplished people on Earth.
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Gary, if you ever decided to pick one thing and focus, you would.
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And I'm like, "I would die." Yeah.
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think cuz you did and it works for you, that's awesome.
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And that's why when I make content, I say it with such passion and conviction.
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I'm always trying to use longer format platforms like this to take a step back and create some clarity.
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I'm asking people to do the things on their terms as passionately and all in as I am. I'll talk about tactics.
8:04
Yes, TikTok is an arbitrage attention machine right now.
8:07
Yes, I believe you should post three, four times a day, but you don't have to.
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And more importantly, if you dislike posting on TikTok the way I dislike reading, then you should do it never. Yes.
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And that's the part that people they want everything so black and white when everything everything is gray. Absolutely.
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I'm always trying to share my conviction, talk about the ease of leaning into oneself, but remind people don't be me. I have high energy.
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I have I have levels of charisma that aren't trained.
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Like mommy and daddy made love at the right second and I was born with certain things.
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It's the same reason that I've struggled with candor.
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Do you know how many five-minute meetings I have that are such a waste of time cuz they could have been an 18-second reading of an email, but I can't do it.
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And and and I just I was a DNF student because even as a child, I had some sort of subconscious force that just wasn't interested in not being me. Mhm. You know? Yeah.
9:08
And I just want that for more people.
9:10
Like And and and then that goes into a framework that I get very passionate about.
9:13
My favorite thing about walking around Earth is how visceral I am against judging people. Mhm.
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In a era that judgment of others has become the most popular pastime.
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But it starts with me not judging myself. I have standards. I have morals.
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But I don't beat myself up.
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And as you know, cuz I'm sure you're on the receiving end of different but many of the same messages that I get. Oh, of course.
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People are just so good at beating themselves up, and I'm like, "Why?
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Like, everybody else sucks, too. Like, great.
9:45
So, you're not good at this, or you missed the your kids' baseball game, and you You're not a bad parent.
9:48
When you're We need You know, another thing, Jay, that I'm very passionate about, intent needs to have a seat at the table.
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We've eliminated the ability to try to figure out one's intent. You suck cuz of this.
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Do you know why they got there?
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Do you know how this happened?
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Like, we've just eliminated intent.
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So, these are all the feelings I think through, but you know, like, I am I definitely like doing a lot of things. Yeah.
10:14
And I And I love what you're saying because we'd rather project that label of judgment onto someone because then we don't have to do the work to figure out how they got there.
10:23
Yeah, I mean, envy and jealousy are incredibly powerful traits.
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I tend not to A lot of my friends throw it out about me, about themselves.
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I actually never go there. It's very real.
10:37
I'm just trying to figure out the solves. Yes.
10:40
Which is like big things like, can we reframe success?
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Can we create clarification?
10:45
For example, with me, I've spent the last 5 years trying to really explain why I want to buy the New York Jets cuz it's a fun game.
10:55
Not like I need the New York Do you know what I mean?
10:57
Like, I'm almost I'm in a weird place now where I kind of want like Karen Thompson to buy the Jets and be the biggest person like, "Good job, Karen. You did it." Yeah.
11:05
I'd want to try to buy the Jets. I don't need the Jets.
11:07
I want to try to build big companies. It's fun.
11:09
Process over the trophies.
11:12
I don't need the trophies to close gaps of insecurity. Yeah.
11:17
And so, like, redefining success, that was that talk right after VeeCon a couple days ago in Vegas, lady said, you know, and she was so damn happy.
11:25
And she's like, "But I'm not, you know, making the dollars like everybody in this room." Like, "Are you happy?"
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She's like, "Really happy."
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I'm like, you're the winner of the room.
11:34
We have to redefine success.
11:34
You know, I'm not I'm not against money. I'm an entrepreneur.
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I was born in the USSR and grew up in America.
11:41
I'm like very pro anything in balance.
11:44
Capitalism in balance excites me to no end. It's around merit.
11:48
But we need to teach all of ourselves the simplicity of like what how like redefining success. Yeah.
11:55
Yeah, well that's the fascinating thing about self-awareness, going back to your earlier point, that I found that envy and jealousy, when you don't have self-awareness, you're envious and jealous of everyone. Correct.
12:06
have self-awareness, it at least limits your envy and jealousy to what you do, and then you can actually do something with it and do something about it.
12:11
And so self-awareness actually gets you halfway there in the battle against jealousy and envy. with it.
12:18
You know, it it it brings you better relationships.
12:20
When a human is tone deaf of like how people are affected by them, they're in a very very vulnerable spot.
12:28
Um self-awareness is very attractive and something that I I hope society keeps pounding on.
12:33
I believe that you're someone who has a even better private life than you do public life.
12:39
Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously listen, I've gone you know, through my personal things like anybody else, but you know what you know how I would answer that?
12:48
I'm wildly content and at peace.
12:54
And I don't think that would make sense to most people that consume me, cuz I'm so frantic as a communicator. I'm such high energy.
13:04
I think the thing I always enjoy when people get close to me and I'm looking at Dustin and Seth behind is like there's incredible levels of confusion on the calmness and like the ability to absorb, you know, bad situations.
13:18
And that has so much to do with personal life, right? Like friends and family.
13:22
I feel really good about it.
13:24
I I think a lot of it has to do with the lack of expectation I have of others.
13:31
Doesn't mean I don't require like any human being, but like I'm incredibly compassionate, not just empathetic.
13:37
And I think when you combine compassion and empathy, you get into a really zenny fun place.
13:42
I find that you know, I've been really thinking this through.
13:46
I'm like, "Oh, those two."
13:46
Cuz not only can I feel you, but when you come with something that isn't great, I'm going quickly to "Are you okay?" Mhm. versus this hurts me. Mhm.
14:01
And so, that gives me a very good personal life.
14:02
I Again, trials and tribulations like any human on life from different various things, especially candor.
14:09
I would tell you that everything that I've had challenges within my life professionally and personally has been because I'm non-confrontational, which again blows people away cuz on stage I'm incredible at it because I'm talking to the world.
14:22
When I'm talking to the world, I can't see your name or your face.
14:23
And so, I can just have really good observations to incredibly clean data because very few people on Earth read the comments from human beings at the level that I do.
14:33
It's what I do for a living. Yeah, yeah.
14:35
So, I have crazy insights.
14:35
Uh one that really caught me was how many wealthy kids were upset with their parents for paying things, but didn't want to give up on their parents' That one really triggered me in 4 or 5 years cuz I didn't grow up in that environment.
14:47
I was like, "Oh, this is a wild one.
14:49
This is a very unhappy 25-year-old with a Tesla, a sick apartment in LA, an unlimited Uber, Equinox, but they real but the subconscious is starting to take over and they realize their parents think they're losers.
15:04
That's why they're paying for everything and it becomes, you know, breaking those things down. absolutely.
15:10
yeah, I I think I think I am very happy because I'm very simple.
15:14
I'm way simpler in business and content than people realize. I'm very simple in life.
15:18
I don't really want stuff. I like playing. I like playing.
15:23
You know, I like competition.
15:24
That's something I'm passionate about.
15:26
I've been thinking a lot about competition.
15:29
You know, I'm thinking about why is there so much anxiety in the system?
15:30
Of course, um social media pipes I I don't blame social the way people do.
15:35
I just think that people are being exposed. Yeah. I'm with you on that.
15:40
was this was happening at dinner tables.
15:42
And so like that's right.
15:42
Yeah, like so like so I think people want to blame platforms.
15:45
This is about a human thing and I think every country is different, every religion is different, race, genders, a lot going on, but I really think that there's a lot of fun little pieces put together that got us to certain places.
15:59
I think eliminating merit and demonizing competition has been a misstep.
16:05
I I think it came from great intent.
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I think parents didn't want kids crying.
16:09
They didn't want them to feel bad.
16:09
But we started training that 18th place is the same as first place.
16:14
Eliminating merit is not a happy place.
16:16
It leads to a very unhappy place.
16:19
And so, you know, it's funny the things that get me going.
16:24
Ambition and competition, I'm in. Feels very red.
16:28
Kindness over anything else including those two things.
16:32
You know, and because it's purple. Yeah.
16:34
And that's what my soul is right now for the world because I think so much of what I am and what what I became was my mom and my DNA and my circumstance filled all the gaps along the way.
16:44
I walked into high school 4' 11". 4' 11". Confident. Yeah.
16:52
Not because I thought I would get the cheerleader or was going to be the most popular because I had zero interest in that validation. Yeah.
17:00
Not that I thought I was better.
17:00
Not that I thought I was better.
17:01
And I think these, you know, these popular I just wanted to be nice to everybody.
17:05
I wanted to do my baseball card shows.
17:07
I wanted to get my D's and F's on my way to going to the wine business.
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I wanted everybody to be happy.
17:13
And it really hasn't stopped.
17:16
The Buddha thousands of years ago, called it the middle path. Right?
17:17
The idea that we're trying to go, is it left or is it right? Is it this or that?
17:21
And it's like, no, it's the middle path.
17:22
And what you were just saying around eliminating merit, I think one of the bigger challenges is trying to eliminate pain early on in life. 100%.
17:31
Because you just become fragile. Correct.
17:34
And it's fascinating to me how much we don't realize that fragility is being spread by limiting.
17:38
I was beaten up every day at school, at primary school, every single day.
17:41
Cuz I was the only Indian kid at school.
17:43
I was the only overweight kid in school. Yeah.
17:45
And so I got beaten up every single day.
17:47
My And it was just what I went through and same same as you, similarly, funnily enough, and we never talked about this, but people always like, did that affect you?
17:54
I'm like, no, not really, because I wasn't looking for love from that person. Correct.
17:59
Cuz even then I knew that that person had more pain in their life than me.
18:02
They grew up on the council estate.
18:02
They They had a Their parents had a broken marriage.
18:05
They had so much more context even at that age that I could go home to my mom and dad, right? I think it's real.
18:11
I think kids not going outside, like parents are too involved. I get it. Again, best intent. Best intent. But I believe in it. Yeah.
18:22
I believe that we have demonized losing when losing is the best. Mhm.
18:26
Like for me, it was school was telling me I was going to be a failure.
18:29
So you have grown-ups left and right, friends, parents, and teachers.
18:32
You will be a garbage I mean, the favorite thing back in the '80s, you're going to be a garbage man.
18:36
Big shout-out to the garbage men and women, first of all, but that was the cliché thing in '84 to '87.
18:41
Like, I can't wait to be like I'm going to be a garbage Like Like Like they just really it was only college, it was only grades.
18:47
So that And then I competed 24/7. I was always competing.
18:50
And when you compete all the time, you're losing a lot. And I cried.
18:54
I cried from 6 to 12 every time I lost in anything.
18:58
Video games, checkers, Uno, football.
18:59
Because I hated the feeling, but the the layers of skin that I have, you know, And that makes sense to me about you.
19:08
You can't be out there at the level we're out there if you don't have that stomach, you won't do it.
19:13
You won't put yourself We all now can.
19:15
Everybody can put themselves out there.
19:17
People won't do it if they don't have that layer of skin.
19:21
And I you know I I agree with you like and it's a tough challenge, but we have to get kids to like get comfortable with losing.
19:28
Yeah, get comfortable with discomfort, even if it's not losing yet.
19:30
Just getting comfortable with discomfort.
19:32
And we've really gone the other way.
19:34
Especially if there's money, if the family has a couple bucks, it's been completely eliminated. Yeah, yeah.
19:40
Parents are going to school fighting for their kids like my kid should have gotten an A like we're doing too much and then they're 22 and they have to live life. Mhm.
19:47
And they go into the workplace and they're like, I should be the VP of this company Gary.
19:49
I'm like, you've been here 4 weeks. Yeah.
19:52
I'm like, start your own company.
19:52
Like like you know what I mean?
19:53
Like you know like you found Have you found clever ways with with your daughter to be able to do things like that?
19:58
Like have you found hacking all the time with my two kids.
20:02
Like how do you encourage losing? Competition.
20:04
How do you do that with kids?
20:04
Give me a because I'm not a parent yet. them. Oh. Beat them in everything.
20:08
My dad used to do that to me. I wish AJ was here.
20:09
Like AJ, my mom used to get so mad at me because we were siblings not it's your child and I'm 11 years older.
20:16
So we're playing one-on-one basketball.
20:19
I'm 18, he's seven and I am beating him. For a couple reasons. One, I believed it.
20:23
Two, I didn't want to lose.
20:26
Three, I always knew when it happened, I'm like, one day he's going to be 17.
20:32
And I'm going to be, you know, 28 and he's going to beat me.
20:34
He's going to be And you know, like I needed to get my wins on the board because Yeah, I think beating them I think talking about adversity, explaining non-conformant, leaning in, you know, and so that's how. Yeah, I like that.
20:49
And my my dad was like that.
20:51
It was really interesting because I think men and women react differently to that.
20:53
But as a guy like my dad was like that.
20:55
He would never pass He would He would get in front of an open goal, soccer I'm talking about.
20:59
Came in front of an open goal, he could pass to me for his son to score and he'd go and score.
21:02
We're playing father and son for soccer.
21:04
And honestly, you know, I've been thinking a lot because I'm so soft-skilled. Yeah.
21:08
There's so many moms I know that were like, "We'll never let the Like the dad is I I'm thinking about one couple right now where it's like I just think it's a DNA trait. It's a culture trait.
21:17
But I think competition and losing and adversity need to be championed zero to 12 when they've been completely taken out of the equation.
21:27
And I believe the entitlement and the pain is a direct correlation. I really do. Yeah. I really do.
21:35
What I got out of that was that it helped me become my own man because I didn't have my dad passing me the ball.
21:41
I didn't have my dad passing it on.
21:41
And so for me, it gave me no framework that I had to force myself to extreme.
21:47
By the time I was 18 or 19, I was I mean, this is really I think my dad's about to start consuming my content, so I'm going to be very I'm going to tread lightly here.
21:56
But Dad, if you're listening, at 18 or 19, I became equally as important to the business.
22:01
And by 22, I was much more important in the business.
22:05
And so like I took it to the extreme. Right?
22:08
Like, you know, the responsibility, the the putting it on your own two feet, like we need a lot more of that.
22:17
No parent is doing their kid a favor by putting training wheels on their life. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
22:26
Gary, I'm asking this with love.
22:26
And you know, for me, this was a big thing.
22:28
I I think it was like I think I'd been making content for 2 years before I introduced my community to my wife. Yes.
22:39
And everyone's like, "Jay, you're married?"
22:41
Like people had no idea because I just didn't talk about her because we just got married.
22:44
We'd been together for a few years before that.
22:46
I was like, "I need to be careful about what we're going to say, where this is going, how this feels."
22:51
You've recently been more open about your relationship. Yes.
22:56
We don't have to go there.
22:56
This is totally very kind, and I appreciate that. I respect you.
22:59
And I'm asking it from a place I am incredibly private, as you know and that's why the world because I'm going through a transition in my life I felt like it got to a place where it was not sustainable for me to be 100% private and so I've been a little more public.
23:15
It is something that I'm desperately not interested in even the part we just talked about with my kids like it's not somewhere I want to go.
23:22
I don't want to go and I don't want to talk about my kids.
23:26
I don't want to talk about my personal I want you to keep this and I'll tell you why.
23:31
I want to remind people you're in control.
23:35
It's incredibly important and appropriate and I appreciate especially being very cordial for people to ask and things of that nature but I want to remind people they're in control.
23:46
I want to provide value and put out things in my professional career.
23:48
I'm incredibly private and feel that the world is entitled to what you give it.
23:58
So when I watch people get upset get into their business I'm like you're giving them your business.
24:01
By the way you're leveraging your business.
24:06
I don't want to leverage nor give my personal life to the world.
24:11
I don't think that's the right way.
24:11
By the way I just think it's my way.
24:16
So the reason I have a little bit to what you're referring to is it became not sustainable because it's been a long time and like I was in a like it just it was the appropriate time and I needed to just get some context out there but I'm it's not where I'm going to go.
24:29
And that's what I was more interested by to me it's not.
24:32
Listen us being together my brain goes into maximize the value at the highest levels cuz we have the opportunity to for as many people are listening the takeaway there from my perspective is you're in control.
24:46
You have a learning disability and you want to share it mazel tov. You don't great.
24:51
It took me back to something less serious.
24:53
It took me 15 years of public life to say I'm not candorous and it's hurt me in my personal life and it's hurt me in my business life.
25:02
You get to share what you want to share. Yeah.
25:04
And and I think people should be careful of what they share.
25:07
You share your abs as a like as a like you're a good shape dude, people going to talk about your body for the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. But you did that.
25:16
You going to show your kid all the time?
25:18
They're going to talk about that. Relationship?
25:19
They're going to talk You're giving the world permission.
25:22
I prefer not to give the world permission because that's a sacred place for me.
25:29
You know, even look at my mom.
25:29
She like the greatest gift I could give to the world is my mom to the world. The greatest. She's alpha me. She's more experienced.
25:38
She's a different perspective.
25:40
As a mom, as a She doesn't want it. The end. Right?
25:42
I thought my dad and mom would be reversed.
25:46
My dad I never thought would love the limelight so much.
25:49
Um, but you know, so I think if you're listening right now, please if you're not going on social media because you have a skeleton in your closet, you have a disease, you have a bad, you know, situation, you you're like me and like grew up in a family where like personal life is private.
26:08
That's I think that, you know, in Russia that was like people would go to jail if anybody knew anything about you.
26:13
So I think it ingrained in my parents which then ingrained in me and my sister and brother.
26:17
Like we're private that way.
26:19
Um, you know, I think you have to understand you're in control.
26:22
Facebook and TikTok and podcasting YouTube don't make you do anything.
26:27
They don't make you do anything.
26:28
I'm so glad you addressed that because I think there's and this is why I brought it up.
26:32
I think there's been a mosque of false vulnerability that's been encouraged because of social media.
26:39
So people think that the more vulnerable or more open you are, that shows authenticity.
26:45
Yeah, I totally disagree. I love you for that.
26:47
You're going to a very smart place.
26:48
I would argue I see more lack of authenticity in the way that people are leveraging their family and personal life because they know it does well. Yeah.
26:57
I don't want to go too deep because again, this is what's fun about being candorous in general, but I would never ever say this to a human being.
27:04
There's people who are leveraging their children for brand deals.
27:13
That's something worth thinking about. Yeah.
27:16
Like Like right now those kids aren't talking about that to you because they don't talk cuz they're four or because they're 16 not ready to have that combo, but like I think all of us have to think about things like that. Yeah.
27:27
And I think for me as an observer of you, I always respect that and that's why I was so intrigued and and I still respect I I still same respect, but it's cuz I went through that journey in my own head even with my own wife that I'd been together with and even what we share and where we share it's like you know, it's really intense like to me your family is the most sacred like that's who's going to be around you when you're dying. Yeah. Like right?
27:51
And so like you have to think three times before you start letting anything in. Right?
27:57
And by the way, the other thing is I don't want to make decisions for other people. Yeah.
28:02
I was built to be unstoppable. You know what I mean?
28:05
Like Like when you You see where I'm going like So true.
28:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
28:09
for that judgement if that person It's hard enough if you choose it.
28:11
Imagine someone else choosing it for you? Yes.
28:16
And so like please everyone be thoughtful on this one.
28:17
And by the way, if you're listening right now and it's really hitting, but you already opened up kimono's box, it's never clo- it's never late to close it. You can close that. We evolve. We change. I will make mistakes. I will change. I will evolve. I will do good things.
28:31
Like we we need a lot more civility and patience for each other. Yeah.
28:39
If you've been sharing everything and you decide off of this podcast, which I'm sure there's five to 500 people that just decided right now, then you just stop.
28:47
And when people ask, "Where Where's Johnny, your boyfriend?"
28:51
Cuz like you you can answer it.
28:51
You don't have to answer it, but like you're in control.
28:56
People have to understand they're in control.
28:58
Accountability, you know, VFriends is my is the scaled version of me. Mhm.
29:06
You know, VFriends, you know, this is actually something I should talk to you about offline.
29:08
You should really debate this. Yeah.
29:11
The building intellectual property to scale one's message is very powerful.
29:16
me and Ryan were just talking about, so I'd love to, yeah.
29:17
Yeah, like like I met this woman, she's in her late 60s, early 70s.
29:20
Somebody introduced me to her.
29:22
I want to I'm looking at potentially hire her to be a storyteller in VFriends.
29:25
She worked for Jim Henson. Wow.
29:29
We're just getting to know each other, but like the brief for Fraggle Rock, the brief for the entire show was stop war.
29:36
And it was like the most profound out of all these 16 months, that's been the most profound moment so far of my journey of VFriends.
29:41
Because VFriends is to make people happier.
29:47
But I think happiness comes in a lot of forms.
29:48
Not demonizing competition.
29:51
My favorite character I want to develop is Accountable Ant.
29:54
Jay, I think the lack of accountability is leading to so much unhappiness. Mhm.
29:59
Like life is so much better when you're like, "This was my fault." Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
30:04
And so like, you know, this was like a wrap-up to control. You're in control. You. Yeah. You.
30:09
You decide what you consume.
30:09
You decide what you believe.
30:11
You decide who you surround yourself with.
30:13
You decide what you put out. Take on accountability. Yeah.
30:17
Everybody wants to blame right now.
30:17
The algorithm They're acting as the algorithms are like hypnosis. Mhm.
30:23
And I understand endorphin hits and all that, but like you can delete the app. Mhm. You can.
30:29
Like where's accountability in this? Yeah. Right? Yeah, absolutely.
30:32
No, I We have alcohol, we have tobacco, we have drugs, we have weapons, and we have all sorts of issues, but most people play within moderation. That's on you. Yeah.
30:41
And it's a tough truth, right?
30:43
It's a It's a tough It's a tough truth. tough truth, yeah.
30:45
Especially when you're unhappy. Yeah, yeah.
30:47
That goes back to why it's important.
30:49
It's like the chicken and egg. It's like working out.
30:51
Like I got into better shape the last 8 years.
30:53
Nothing comes less natural to me. Yeah, tell me that.
30:58
Nothing comes less natural to me. to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:00
like but like I was like I just would like to live longer. Yes.
31:04
just like to live longer. Yeah.
31:06
And go figure, it's not apple cider gummies, it's not steroids, it's not implants. I've thought about it.
31:13
I'm like, "Can I get chest implants? I put in a lot of work.
31:16
I feel like I have like Seth's good.
31:17
Like I feel like I've done more than Seth.
31:19
But like my body type like you know?"
31:21
And I'm like I probably haven't.
31:22
But but but no, it's like eat well, go in the gym, do the right things.
31:27
And so same for life, you know, whether it's meditation, whether it's exercise, whether it's therapy, whether it's good conversations, whether it's surrounding, you know, you know, back to us not having the center you know, we've had some meals, we've had some interactions.
31:42
They're always like they're nice. more. I would like that. We'll build on that.
31:46
I think you know, I I'm spending more time thinking about spending more time with more while doubling down on core, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:55
you know, because I've been I did a really good job in the last 10 years of doubling down on core.
32:01
But but I think being as busy and I love what I do, you know, I really do want to build out of more of a friend network.
32:06
More I want to take more people from lightweight acquaintance to solid acquaintance.
32:12
I want to take people from acquaintance to friend, from friend to best friend.
32:16
And so I'm on a journey like everybody else, but I think that um I got God, I think believe it or not, this is going to sound so crazy for so many, the world actually has so much potential for everybody listening to be the best time to be alive.
32:36
Medicine and technology and there's so much, but we're caught right now.
32:39
It's like a hamster wheel.
32:41
We're in the momentum of focusing on, you know, the bad. Yeah.
32:46
And there's there's always bad. Yeah.
32:49
The The Holocaust was bad.
32:51
Genocide is always going on.
32:51
Genghis Khan was not a fun time to be a human. Yeah.
32:56
Like, you know, like we we are very bad at history.
32:58
I was a really bad student, but I did well in history.
32:59
Like, but that starts with you.
33:01
What are you going to do about it?
33:03
Cuz right now everyone's like pointing and feels like it's on someone else. Starts with ourselves.
33:10
I mean, when you said that and you brought up the Holocaust, I recently read Edith Eger's book, The Gift.
33:13
She lived through the Holocaust.
33:16
And she had that mindset in the Holocaust.
33:18
So, she said the only way she got through it is she realized that she wasn't a prisoner, that the only prisoners were the guards, cuz they were prisoners of their own conscience. Unbelievable. That was her mindset. She's right.
33:30
And it's And, you know, she's like over 90 now or even older and it's like it's just phenomenal that her, Victor Frankl, who wrote Man's Search for Meaning, these two phenomenal books, if anyone hasn't read them, like, they had that in that scenario.
33:43
Well, that's the point I always make to everybody, like, you know, the only thing that works for me is trying to contextualize moments in time. Yeah.
33:52
And like, you know, our great great great grandparents had it rough by comparison to the way we have it.
33:57
And sure, they had some things that were better on simplicity, but we must choose optimism because what's the alternative? Pessimism?
34:06
Like, are you just going to decide?
34:08
Because once you decide, where are you?
34:11
Once you decide it's bad, it's actually bad.
34:14
And so, like, one of the things that makes me very passionate to communicate is practical optimism or the fact that I believe negativity is much better at marketing than positivity. Oh, for sure.
34:27
I feel a huge sense of responsibility.
34:29
What has become, out of all the things you've pursued, cuz I'm guessing that different stages in your life and anyone who hasn't heard of interviewed Gary twice before, so you can go back and listen to those.
34:38
You've pursued different things at different times.
34:39
And every time I meet you, it's a really what I love about it is that you just there's so much growth and acceptance and embracing of this new you.
34:47
Every time we talk, I feel like I'm talking to a even more self-aware human, which is a really fun feeling when you're checking in with someone in this way.
34:58
And so I go, "What What have you found currently to be the most worthy pursuit?"
35:03
Like what what is it that you're pursuing that you've found worthy of pursuing?
35:07
It's always been the same thing for me.
35:10
It's almost as if I'm living two separate lives.
35:11
The most worthy pursuit is I'm wildly gifted at helping other people.
35:17
And I'm incredibly comfortable of also being okay with feeding myself around my own interests.
35:25
The most worthwhile pursuit, my friends, I think this is going to land with you, is the continuous balance beam that I walk on that is called equal parts selfish and equal parts selfless and refining that skill set.
35:40
And I think in the three times, if I may, off of your analogy, I think the beam is getting thinner and I'm still walking it. Mhm. You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:48
Maybe the first time we met it was like an Olympic beam or a high school beam.
35:52
Maybe the second time was, you know, my hope is that as I continue to go, I'll be on a tightrope across Manhattan and walk it easily because me playing my game of entrepreneurship gives me so much energy that I'm able to deploy it in a positive manner at scale.
36:09
And I find it fascinating.
36:11
And so that is what I continue to go after. I love that.
36:14
Gary, 40 minutes with you feels like an hour and two hours with someone else. Thank you, man. Thank you, brother. You're the best. Thank you, bro.
36:18
I appreciate you so much.
36:20
you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
36:25
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
36:34
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