0:00
You look amazing, man. >> You look great. >> Look at your hair. Look at your hair. You look the same. >> So do you. >> What's up with that? >> Um We We go back. >> 90s.
Search this video
0:08
>> Probably farther than anybody.
0:10
>> Maybe by like months, maybe Mike D. Maybe Mike D.
0:14
But it's the same family.
0:17
>> I mean >> No, for sure.
0:18
I mean, we are we are early No, you might be number one, actually. We're early 90s. >> Yeah. >> crazy. Way back.
0:24
Um I said on the air I've had such a beautiful It's been such a beautiful part of my life um to get to know you personally, but also just to um continue to to you know, bring these songs that you that you gift us into into my life, and we all feel the same way. They're just gifts, man.
0:44
And this one is is all time you acoustic guitar and your feelings. love it.
0:52
>> [laughter and gasps] >> I love it, man. >> Thanks, man.
0:54
>> It's like um feels to me when I when I put when I press play on this, it was almost like an old friend coming into town, and you see them walking in from a distance.
1:01
It's like, I know that walk.
1:01
I haven't seen you for so long. How are you?
1:05
How did it feel when you started um writing this music, and you knew that it was going to be another one of these moments in your life where you get to lean in with your friends and make this kind of music, you know?
1:18
>> Yeah, I think um you know, so I started out with a group of musicians.
1:20
They were my band for years.
1:22
They've all gone off to amazing careers, and uh and we did some shows I don't know, maybe 4 years ago we were doing some kind of a more acoustic kind of shows.
1:37
And it just felt like we need to do this again. You know, we miss this.
1:40
We all get busy in our lives and all the projects we're doing.
1:45
And uh it's but it's essentially the the the group of musicians that I toured with most of my 20s.
1:53
We did records like Mutations, Sea Change, Morning Phase, you know.
1:57
>> Hugely successful records for you in lots of ways.
1:59
Not just in terms of like really speaking to your audience, speaking to us, but also I mean Morning Phase won Grammy album of the year, man. >> Right. Yeah.
2:10
It And it's And it's funny cuz the way things started out for me was really Loser, which was kind of um kind of anomaly.
2:19
It didn't didn't really match up with most of the music I was making, which was more of a you know, sing folk kind of singer-songwriter.
2:29
>> Well, that's what I was going to say.
2:29
I I sort of wanted to go back even further than Loser and and you know, for me in many respects, it starts with as far back as One Foot in the Grave. >> Right.
2:44
>> You're dabbling in this world.
2:44
I mean, take the Nigel Godrich out of it and all of the beautiful studios out of it and you know, this is not that far away from that beautiful songwriter through line of yours, you know. >> Right. Yeah.
2:57
>> [music] [laughter] [singing] >> We're going to get through a chorus of this, but leave that.
3:11
>> [singing] [music] >> I love that line so much.
3:21
>> [laughter] [singing] [music] [music and singing] [laughter] >> It's so good, man.
3:42
>> You know, Tom Petty covered that song? >> When was that? I didn't know that.
3:48
>> It's probably '95 or something, '96.
3:51
>> So, you're a You're just a young Los Angeleno who's just figuring it out. You You write that song.
3:55
You put it out on an independent album, Loser, it takes off, and then next thing you know, some icon is covering >> [laughter] >> Very surreal.
4:06
>> That must have been maybe the first truly surreal kind of moment when someone that's a that's a true goat, like goes, "No, I see in this guy.
4:14
I see something in this guy."
4:18
>> No, it was I think it was overwhelming and uh you know, just for context, you know, maybe a year or two before that, I was just making these tape cassettes.
4:28
They were like tape cassette albums and I would just sell them or give them to people.
4:34
Um I didn't have any kind of you know, foothold in anything you could call the music business.
4:41
I was just making music from for me and my friends.
4:46
And uh so, that was wild. >> I know.
4:48
And I mean, you know, even Therapeutic Soul Manoeuvre, which is also like just these wonderful shapes that you're just get grabbing and just deciding to release without any It felt to me like you weren't putting any thought into the um there was no anxiety about the release of it.
5:04
You know, maybe the the care went into like how I'm going to record them on the tape, whatever tools I have, but once you did them, it was just like set them free.
5:10
What could What could go wrong? >> Yeah.
5:14
Yeah, it was kind of yeah, pretty un-premeditated.
5:15
Just making stuff and you know, yeah, it's kind of it kind of pure in that way.
5:23
>> Um we spoke about this at a party we were at the other day and this this is all leading back into Write Lonseome into this beautiful new era following on from these timeless albums that you've made with these wonderful players and friends.
5:34
Um >> [clears throat] >> you know, I feel like after Loser and there was this sort of desire for you to be a kind that that Beck for a while.
5:44
Festival Beck, you know, running around.
5:46
It really was kind of it was that best summer ever like that documentary like that tour that that happened in Australasia.
5:53
Um which was the Somersault tour with the with the amazing live bands which Tamara Davis just done a documentary which hopefully everyone will get to see soon which is beautiful.
6:01
Um and Pav the promoter booked you as a as a acoustic solo artist on that tour.
6:06
Everyone else brought their full thing.
6:09
It was Beastie's full show, Sonic Youth full show, Pavement full show, Jawbreaker, all these men.
6:14
And then it's like you're like well I guess I'm not bringing the band with me.
6:17
Did that reinforce to some degree this kind of like hey that is who I am still.
6:21
I don't have to be this guy with a band making alternative rock, you know?
6:27
>> Yeah, it was you know, I didn't really know how to make it all work together.
6:31
It was really two different things.
6:33
You know, I had the [snorts] song on MTV, was on the radio, and then I had all this kind of weird folk songs and country songs that I would write.
6:44
And I didn't really know how to put it all together.
6:46
It probably Initially I thought I would just call them come up with a name, you know, you know, the way like Damon Albarn has Gorillaz and Blur, you know, and I just I never I just kind of left it all in one big mess.
7:02
Which I think is been a little confusing maybe for some friends.
7:07
Uh but on that tour Pav I think he was more of a fan of the folk stuff than the MTV stuff.
7:15
So he's like he can come but just bring your acoustic guitar.
7:18
Uh which was great and God bless Tamara for filming that.
7:22
She just bought a camcorder. >> Yeah.
7:27
>> Yeah, filmed it and that's one of the only documents from that time that we have. >> I was at that tour.
7:32
>> All those tours we did with Pavement and Sonic Youth and uh Jesus Lizard, the Beastie Boys, you know, there were all these tours. we're always together. >> Yeah.
7:43
>> And there's hardly any documentation of it.
7:46
So, this is one of the only things we have.
7:48
>> It was emotional for me.
7:48
I went to the to the Melbourne date.
7:49
Uh I flew from Auckland to go to that because because didn't come to New Zealand.
7:53
And I the lineup was just the lineup was >> It was crazy. >> ridiculous.
7:58
It's like when you see Rancid at 3:00 in the afternoon on some side stage and they're just tearing it up.
8:06
And then I I'm like when else would I get to see Jawbreaker?
8:11
And like only a few people really with Jawbreaker, but we were beside ourselves watching that band. >> Right.
8:17
>> just so amazing and then watching you and it was incredible, man.
8:19
And um and I feel like, you know, that was '95.
8:24
When did Out of the Way come out?
8:26
'90 >> It It had already been recorded. >> It'd been recorded.
8:31
>> Yeah, and it it was coming It came out 6 months later.
8:33
>> What a strange time for you to be out there playing these weird folk songs knowing that you had this like life-changing, fully produced Dust Brothers masterpiece sitting in the can.
8:41
>> Yeah, it was just waiting. >> Just waiting.
8:45
>> It was Yeah, it was a weird in between time.
8:47
It was really uh good times, though.
8:51
And uh >> What's one of your favorite memories of that time or that tour hanging out with all those guys, that crew?
8:57
>> There was a lot of camaraderie, a lot My favorite thing was So, we're in Australia, you have to fly to each city. >> Mhm.
9:04
>> So, I'd be on this airplane at 10:00 a. m.
9:07
with literally every band that was on the radio at the time.
9:11
Just all in one plane together and it's one of those um you know, there's versions of that in different eras like the '60s and '70s and it was one of for my time, it was one of those moments where you you know, every everybody was together.
9:30
>> You know, that was the good side of it, but um again, we've spoken about like how tough the '90s were, too.
9:33
And and trying to get get a foothold into the scene, and it was definitely a scene.
9:39
Uh and appeal to the audience that loves you, and not be judged harshly by them while also trying to achieve >> success >> was tough, right?
9:52
>> It was trick It was treacherous, yeah.
9:54
Yeah, there was a there was a It I think it's hard for people to get their heads around now, the the the atmosphere, the the the way that the all the pitfalls of an artist.
10:09
God forbid you have some success or you get on the radio. >> Yeah.
10:13
>> Uh but at the same time wanting to move things in want to want to make music that's pushing things and reaching people and you know, changing things. >> Yeah.
10:25
>> Uh it was a real delicate uh dance.
10:28
It was It was It was really hard to navigate.
10:32
>> Ambition was I mean, this was >> really frowned upon.
10:35
>> Yeah, it's a dirty word.
10:36
>> It It anything that was remotely commercial or, you know, but of course, all these bands were wildly successful and commercial. >> Yeah. Yeah.
10:46
>> And but you had to somehow uh be almost apologetic for it.
10:50
Like, it happened by accident. It would Often it did.
10:55
We we I mean, I I can't speak for everybody else, but we were constantly um sort of trying to sabotage ourselves >> commercially >> [snorts] >> by, you know, not doing the things you're supposed to do, you know, saying no to the magazine cover, or refusing to make a music video. >> Do not do an ad. Do not do an ad.
11:17
>> Well, I got I got I got asked to do many of these.
11:20
One of these was a uh a Ford pickup truck commercial.
11:27
And I remember the presentation is they wanted me to be playing this Woody Guthrie guitar in a Ford factory while they're building trucks singing about Ford trucks and they and I remember thinking I will no one will ever buy one of my records.
11:41
>> not come back to this.
11:42
>> Nobody will ever speak to me or you know, take me seriously again.
11:48
And then a few months later I'm watching TV and uh and they got Johnny Cash.
11:55
Same commercial but it was Johnny Cash.
11:57
>> [laughter] >> And to be fair I was like he pulled it off.
11:59
I don't think I would have pulled it off but >> [laughter] >> uh What is It was a lot of those. A lot of those.
12:07
>> There's a lot There's a lot to a lot to unpack there.
12:08
I mean, first of all, nice to be able to sit on the couch, have held your line and know that you were being kicked around in conversations in the same breath as Johnny Cash.
12:17
>> Yeah, and I'm I'm I'm worried about whatever >> Anyone's going to think of you.
12:21
>> credibility and and in the in you have the legend of all time.
12:26
It's just you know, that that was a lesson I think. >> Yeah.
12:30
>> But there were different rules for us I think.
12:32
>> Yeah, I think so and you were right.
12:32
I mean, you were at a different stage in your career.
12:34
No one's going to sit there and look at Johnny Cash and judge Johnny Cash harshly. >> No, not at all.
12:39
>> But they could definitely judge you.
12:41
>> And and to be fair like 30 years later it's probably a great commercial.
12:45
It's what a what a weird cool document to have.
12:48
>> going to say what creative steward goes let's make sure we have Woody Guthrie's authentic guitar in a Ford pickup ad.
12:52
I mean, looking back on it now even though in the 90s I would have judged that so harshly, I kind of wish that people would have done something like >> now. Yeah.
13:02
>> That someone was that detailed and that dedicated to culture to be able and history to be able to do that. >> I know. >> It's crazy. >> I know.
13:10
And so what we did during that time is we just said no to everything.
13:13
Uh it was just so that default.
13:16
>> I felt the I felt that that changed and I've said this before but I felt that changed when Jack and Meg did the Coke ad.
13:22
>> Yeah, uh there were a few things I think.
13:24
Um things definitely changed uh the 2000s.
13:29
Like all these things that were verboten had became totally acceptable.
13:35
>> When you came off the back of your the success you had with Odalay and you became a bonafide festival headlining act.
13:41
You won Grammys on that album, too, and it was it remains to this day one of it is one of the one of the 100 best albums of all time.
13:47
And I would love that record and um and for me uh when you release Mutations after that it felt like all of and you talked about wanting to combine all the bits and just not dividing them into different images or different names or whatever.
14:03
That was the moment where I was like, oh, wow, like this makes total sense.
14:07
Like I guess the quality of everything had met each other.
14:12
And what prompted you to really lean into the singer-songwriter side of you in a really beautiful tasteful and rich-sounding way and not and get it out of that kind of like four-track acoustic, figure it out folk kind of way.
14:31
>> Yeah, it was a it was kind of a split because I had this I had all these songs that were on the radio and MTV and it was this whole kind of um I didn't plan that whole side of my music and then and people came to our shows that's what they wanted to hear.
14:51
I'd pull the acoustic guitar out and they would mosh, they would >> boo.
14:55
I saw it at the Palace Station and you were like, why are people stage diving to my acoustic set?
14:58
[laughter] >> Yeah, and or booing or yelling hee-haw, you know, yeehaw, you know.
15:07
And uh kind of making fun of it.
15:10
Um it's it's strange to think and I and I think younger people probably don't know, but if you pulled out an acoustic guitar, you would be ridiculed.
15:20
You know, at a certain time.
15:22
that started to change, you know, Nirvana MTV Unplugged and that kind of thing kind of went, oh, okay, acoustic guitarists, it's not it it but that was not cool. Remotely cool.
15:35
Um but no, after Odalay we we had spent a year trying to make a record but the technology wasn't there yet.
15:43
So, it was this really laborious process of trying to make do these things that technology couldn't quite get there and and we're trying to to reinvent how you can make songs and it was a very arduous and then with the next record I I had wanted to record it live to tape. Just a band in the room. Song a day.
16:05
We recorded the whole thing in 12 days.
16:09
And it was you know, it was sort of the antithesis of you know, the process of the previous record.
16:15
And in this new record's you know, like the like like the new song that we did, it's just it's just like the it's all these musicians in the room together. We're just playing. It's a take. >> Yeah. >> It's live.
16:29
>> It sounds so beautiful and >> And and that's something that I'm always drawn back to.
16:32
Is it is interesting is you know, you make music, you know, all the all the plugins and all the computer programs, it's it's all seductive and we it the sounds you can make, it's unlimited.
16:48
You know, it's you can get lost in it but taking it back to just a microphone playing music in a room with people, you know, it's it's a it's it's something I I need to do from time to time.
17:02
>> Well, I got I was going to play something off Mutations in in in accordance with the conversation but I actually think that that what you just described at a time when we are just drawn into technology and that's cool, man.
17:11
I I you're right, I use it even a lot when you use it but it's important to remember what things can sound like when you just sit in a room with your friends.
17:20
Music attaches itself to memories in such a real way.
17:21
I've realized that as I've gone through my life, which is why music is such an important part for people who are struggling with cognitive issues. It really unlocks a lot.
17:28
And so I think about all of the memories attached to music over the years and you've given us so many and in particular this type of sort of music that you make, man, it's a it's a traveler, you know, it's a real traveler. >> Mhm.
17:42
>> What travels with you as a music fan?
17:44
Like what do you never leave behind and always have with you at your disposal when you know, you want to draw on something to listen to when it's you know, traveling or >> Yeah.
17:54
No, I think we all have those records we go back to.
17:58
You know, especially as life as as you live life longer and longer, you there's certain perennial records.
18:05
I mean, I there's dozens for me.
18:08
Um you know, I like the latest music and over time some of it doesn't age well.
18:16
Some of it's just really for its time.
18:19
And but but you know, there's certain classics that you just you know, for me it's like certain Caetano Veloso records, but also Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and and I'll go back to Hank Williams.
18:30
I'll go back to um just the great songwriters of the '60s and '70s, you know, from my childhood.
18:40
Um I Chet Baker uh sings.
18:44
That That's a record I've probably listened to 2,000 times.
18:49
>> [laughter] >> I don't know.
18:51
>> I was saying that one is definitely a big one in my house and it's traveled with me since I'm That was a big big moment for me when I discovered Chet Baker.
18:57
My friend played that to me.
18:57
I was a kid and I was just like, what is >> Yeah.
19:00
I almost it it's almost uh the the thread line I see is like love They're records that are very intimate.
19:08
You really feel the person directly there. Yeah.
19:12
>> Like Nick Drake or Um you know, a lot of folk country artists have that. >> You're right.
19:18
Neil has that very much, too.
19:20
I mean, Neil, I feel like he's just having a direct conversation with you.
19:23
Whatever mood he's in is what you're hearing and you know.
19:25
>> And it's just what he came up with that day. >> Mhm.
19:28
>> It's that doesn't feel precious, you know.
19:31
>> I asked him once um about This is a funny story.
19:34
I was interviewing him about a record he just put out, which is where he's at his happiest, if at all, talking about music. >> Right.
19:40
>> But someone had asked me within the wider team, like if at the very end if you just get a couple of words about, you know, Harvest cuz it's an anniversary and we're not going to get it out of him.
19:48
So, they really threw me under the bus.
19:50
So, I started to ask him these questions. He was very kind.
19:52
He was like, "I know where these came from. I'll you know."
19:54
So, he answered one or two and then by the third one he's like, "Look, you just you're just better off asking that guy. >> Right.
20:04
>> He's He's still back there. >> Oh. >> Loving that music.
20:06
He'll talk about it all day.
20:09
But this guy This thousands of guys. I'm And it's all him.
20:12
He's like, "I I can't relate to that guy anymore." >> Right.
20:17
>> And I wonder sort of what your relationship is like as you continue to make new music with your older music outside of playing it, you know, on stage.
20:28
When people want to talk to you about it or bring up things like Does it come naturally to you to talk about your music or do you really like to leave it behind?
20:36
>> Uh I don't feel I don't have this this rejection of the past.
20:41
I I embrace it, obviously, and uh what I find interesting is how the music shape shifts over time.
20:53
Like the way a song sounded in 1998 versus 2022 is it's the same piece of music and it's completely different and it and it changes each decade as well.
21:05
Like the way I hear certain things that I grew up with or that I've made.
21:13
And some things have aged well, and then some some things feel like a curiosity of the time.
21:20
And I don't really know how to explain it.
21:27
You know, it's something strange that that context and time does.
21:31
>> Well, I believe it's actually it's tactile.
21:32
I mean, we talk about music like it's this invisibility thing.
21:34
It just moves around us, but I think it actually like anything like this table or you or I or anything has an energy force >> Yeah.
21:43
>> that changes depending on how you absorb it and share it and and feel it. >> Yeah. No, I know.
21:47
And things that were ugly, movies we hated, uh food we didn't like, it sudden you know, 20 years later we love it or or we hate it.
21:59
It it's it's So, it's a it's a a changing, ever-evolving thing.
22:03
You know, I there's certain records I probably of that I've made that I couldn't listen to now, but maybe in 10 years I'll love it.
22:12
And there's records I put out that people really disliked at the time, and then decades later tell me it's my best record.
22:19
So, there's no there's no rhyme or reason to any of it, and you can't really >> And there shouldn't be, by the way.
22:26
We should feel free as as human beings to to like or dislike or move with whatever we want.
22:32
It's almost like rude to make music for people.
22:35
It's almost like offensive.
22:39
>> Yeah, it's >> Don't make music for me.
22:40
I'm entitled to like and dislike whatever I want.
22:42
Don't try and put something in front of me that I'm supposed You know what I mean? It's weird.
22:46
>> And often when you're making music, uh a lot of the times I I don't know if I like it or not.
22:53
I don't know why I made it.
22:56
What I had in my head is not necessarily what you know, came to fruition in the recording.
23:02
And I think um it's not really up to us. >> up to us.
23:07
>> It's not you just make it and I I admire people who can conceive of something and execute it perfectly exactly how they thought of it and it and it hits all the marks that they intended.
23:19
But for me it's a little bit more like you know, we'll see where we land.
23:23
It's it's it's not going to necessarily be what I intended, but it'll be something and and and it's wild some of these records um they just don't work in a certain time and then they completely connect in a different time.
23:40
>> Which brings that 7-day period that that I think it was last year where you did three or four shows.
23:47
One was with the band doing the review.
23:52
One was the you know, the full-on dynamic we're going to have a good time show.
23:56
One was the big festival. >> Yeah, yeah.
23:58
And then there was one show you did with when you were out with the orchestra. >> Yep.
24:03
>> And then I think you did one solo acoustic show.
24:08
And then there was maybe another one that was more of a sea change.
24:09
I don't know, there were four styles of Beck in one week.
24:12
Does this Does this ring a bell?
24:16
>> Yeah, that was that was last summer.
24:16
So we headlined this festival in Korea which was crazy crazy festival energy.
24:23
>> Can we go one at a time cuz I really need to know what a festival in Korea is like to play?
24:28
>> Best That was in my best gig of the last 20 years easily. >> Wow.
24:33
>> And I had zero expectations. It was raining.
24:37
We'd only played Korea maybe once 12 years ago in all these years.
24:42
And I'd never seen an audience that into it.
24:46
I I don't even think we've sold a record in Korea.
24:48
I I didn't think anybody would know >> Yeah.
24:51
>> my music and it was out of control. >> Pandemonium. >> Wild.
24:58
>> [snorts] >> And uh >> And this is from a '90s guy.
24:59
We've seen some people like lose their at gigs.
25:04
>> Yeah, back in the day. Yeah. >> Yeah.
25:07
>> And this was not recently.
25:08
>> was Yeah, yeah, and this was up there with that. Like >> Oh, yeah.
25:10
It It was like you know, gigs we would do with The Prodigy. >> Cool.
25:16
>> In the UK in the mid-'90s. It was crazy. Yeah. >> Amazing.
25:20
So, you went from that >> Yeah, then we fly to San Francisco.
25:22
We play with the symphony. >> Yeah. >> Golden Gate Park.
25:28
Like you know, very foggy and and kind of ethereal.
25:33
>> It must be very emotional being in an environment where you're surrounded by um strings to net that kind of Hearing your songs being brought to life with that level of emotional width.
25:45
>> Yeah, uh 80 musicians.
25:49
>> [gasps] >> I mean, it's Playing with an orchestra was when I was coming up, that was the sign when somebody's career has really gone off the rails. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:00
>> Like they've lost >> Again, in the '90s, strings, careful.
26:03
Very careful with strings.
26:04
>> Like when they get the orchestra, it's like, uh-oh.
26:05
They've They've gone Vegas or they've gone They've kind of lost the essence of what they're doing.
26:12
Uh but that's kind of one of the one of the strange, wonderful things of, [snorts] you know, making records over the years and discovering that orchestral sound and that that it's it's so rich and and and we go play this play these shows with the orchestras.
26:30
And I'll ask the audience, they 80% of them never seen an orchestra.
26:32
They've never heard one in person.
26:36
So, it's uh >> Yeah, cuz very few contemporary artists will go and make that move. >> Yeah, exactly.
26:40
And and sort of strip out the band, so it's really the orchestra.
26:45
>> And as an as an artist who across varying stages of what you do on stage, certainly in at the festival in Seoul, there's a lot of beats to hit and things you got to try to make sure you're in the immersed in order to to have a good time.
26:57
>> Was that um very different sort of almost out-of-body experience performing with an orchestra?
27:01
Could you sit in it in a different way because so much of it is in the hands of other people interpreting your music rather than having to lead it if that makes sense. >> Exactly.
27:09
You're you're um it's a that's a real balancing act.
27:11
Way more difficult to play with the orchestra.
27:16
And there there's a stillness.
27:21
I can't you you you have really have to calibrate how much you're putting out, you know, how how loud you're singing.
27:28
Um it's it's a completely different discipline.
27:33
Uh which I love cuz cuz most of my performing has been it's pretty maximal.
27:38
You're just trying to get out get over the crowd.
27:42
And this is about reducing and and uh getting more intimate and smaller and more subtle. >> in Golden Gate Park.
27:50
>> But but still holding the audience.
27:50
It's it's really uh you know uh I remember doing the Hollywood Bowl a couple of years ago with the LA Philharmonic.
28:01
And I walked out and the entire orchestra is in white tuxedos.
28:05
You know, and it's a beautiful summer night. Very Frank Sinatra.
28:09
Uh you know, it's one of those things that I go this is a different world of music that than where I come from and and you know, what's you know, what music's evolved to but amazing that we're in a time that we can we can go to that.
28:26
We can you know and people embrace it.
28:31
>> And also that guy who started like pay no mind just trying to find your voice and figure out like how do I hold a song? Right? How do I hold a song?
28:45
>> And keep your attention and find some emotion.
28:47
What tools do I have at 21, 22 to do that?
28:51
To be on a stage at the Hollywood Bowl knowing that it was just your voice.
28:55
You You had to do that with your song and your voice.
28:57
There was no dancing, no dynamics, no band to play off, nothing.
29:02
Did you allow yourself the space to to to appreciate and acknowledge that A that moment and B also not to sound trite, but just the fact that your voice had had evolved so much through your life lived that you could >> do that as a singer.
29:16
>> Yeah, it I think it takes a while.
29:16
Yeah, some people are born with it.
29:19
I I have friends who who they sing and it's like the you hear the sound of the ages.
29:25
You're like this depth of and >> [snorts] >> whatever 24 years old and I'm like, "Where did that come from?" >> that for you?
29:33
One of your mates, who was that? Who has that?
29:34
Who Who makes you feel that way?
29:36
>> I remember I met Sia when she was probably 20 years before she was pop star and >> She's just a local star.
29:44
>> She'd hang out at my house and she would just sing for us. You know.
29:49
Greg Kurstin get on the piano and you know, just like, "Where did this voice come from?"
29:53
>> Yeah, yeah, no, she goes deep.
29:55
>> And you know, just hanging out with whatever Thom Yorke or Eddie Vedder, they just open their mouths and just glorious [snorts] sound would come out.
30:04
Uh but yeah, it's it is being up there just it's a vulnerability, I think.
30:10
It's just you know, really just opening it come out of the voice and and that's uh I think that's uh it's it's a little bit scary, I think.
30:27
You know, that that idea would have been kind of scary to me when I was younger.
30:32
But um you know, I think that's I don't know, I think that's what we're looking for as a you know, as a listener.
30:42
>> Yeah, that's where the truth lives.
30:42
And that's all we have, you know, is listen to each other tell the truth.
30:46
>> And trying to get closer to that somehow.
30:48
Um it's very seductive to to fall into mannerisms and you know, creating an image or a you know, uh uh a personality in the music, you know.
31:05
But then just kind of getting I mean, everybody has a persona, I think.
31:11
And the way they approach their music and you know, an image or some kind of thing, you know. >> Which is fun, too.
31:17
I mean, you know >> Which is great.
31:18
>> I've seen those shows with you and Justin and Joey and Swamp and I've seen and it's great and you guys are just like, man, you know, we're going to we're going to play with all of the all of the all of the things. >> All the toys, yeah.
31:30
>> All the toys, you know, the images and the ideas and the dances and we're going to take these these beautiful magpie all these beautiful into a night you'll never forget, you know.
31:35
And that I guess that's soul and then and there's go and get and then we're from San Francisco in that one week as you're doing this This is your life tour.
31:46
>> [laughter] >> That's right.
31:49
Uh yeah, just wait for my uh my electro techno album and then I'll do my jazz residency. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.
32:01
I just I I think I've always been genre um free, I guess.
32:05
Or agnostic, would that be?
32:09
Uh I just I just I maybe it's growing up in Los Angeles.
32:15
I never saw divisions in music.
32:19
Uh something that was very true when I was growing up, if you listened to hard rock, metal and this this guy listened to punk, they couldn't talk to each other.
32:30
And if you liked, you know, pop or Michael Jackson or something, you were not hanging out with the guys who were break dancing, listening to rap.
32:41
You know, it was everything was very, very, very divided and codified and and uh I just never saw things that way.
32:51
I just I don't know for whatever reason.
32:57
Um I think partially environment, partially just attention span.
33:01
I just kind of liked it all.
33:03
>> Where were those early shows you were doing in the videos with the leaf blower and stuff?
33:06
Were they in Silver Lake?
33:08
Where where where were those What were those places?
33:10
>> That was at a place called Raji's.
33:13
Which was a uh kind of the cool bar in Hollywood.
33:18
Um I believe I might be wrong, but I believe the the cover of the first Nirvana album is taken on that stage. Same stage, yeah.
33:29
Uh and it was one of the few places that would had good music at the time.
33:36
And uh >> Cuz Los Cuz Los Angeles has a reputation of being this place where bands form or whatever, but they don't.
33:40
They come here to be able to make something happen. But >> Yeah.
33:46
>> a Los Angeleno back in those early '90s.
33:50
>> Well, during that time it wasn't cool to be from LA.
33:52
>> That's what I'm saying, yeah.
33:53
>> Yeah, I think Guns N' Roses was the only thing from LA. >> Yeah.
33:58
>> You know, at that time.
33:59
>> And it wasn't like there were venues on every corner for you to go play at.
34:01
Like in New York, I feel on the Lower East Side around that time you just like fall over, trip over places to go and find an audience. >> Yeah, absolutely.
34:10
And uh I went to New York when I was 18 and played all the played all the little places, the bars and cafes there.
34:18
Uh but yeah, LA was a bit kind of the scene was very small. Yeah, very, very small.
34:24
>> You didn't find your people in New York?
34:26
Most people go to New York >> No, I found a lot of people.
34:27
Yeah, yeah, there was all kinds of people.
34:30
>> But you didn't want to stay?
34:33
>> Well, that's a long story.
34:35
>> Good, we've got something to talk about in the future.
34:36
We'll get to that at some point. >> that's a whole story. >> day.
34:39
I just want to make sure we've got room to keep growing this conversation and continue space. >> Oh, yeah.
34:43
I know you you know, you and me we can go. We can go off. >> can go off.
34:47
[laughter] >> We could pick a little pocket of music in one year and do a whole hour on that. >> We could.
34:53
Right now we're going to take it back to that album that changed your life, Milo Goes to Hollywood with the leaf blower and the you know, sitting five to the windscreen with the with the windscreen wiper the whole >> Right, which which MTV made us uh >> You can't say five to a windscreen?
35:08
>> I Well, actually we could do that.
35:08
I think we had fake blood on the windshield.
35:11
So I was squeegeeing blood >> right. That's right.
35:14
I remember the rate in New Zealand that was fine.
35:15
I remember that image very clearly.
35:18
>> In America we couldn't have blood on the windshield.
35:21
>> the windshield on the windshield.
35:22
>> There's a lot of things.
35:22
I remember I would do interviews on MTV and they would have to edit most of it out.
35:28
>> Like well, amazing there was anything to edit out.
35:30
I remember interviewing you back in the '90s you barely said boo to anybody about anything to do with >> [laughter] >> That venue that I saw you were in Auckland for the first time.
35:37
Beck's in the studio live with us right now.
35:38
And um some of the most amazing shows in the '90s happened in that place.
35:42
It was like probably you'd be lucky if you got a thousand in that room.
35:46
And uh it was just a concrete It's still there.
35:49
It's called the Powerstation in Auckland.
35:50
And it's just a concrete box. No windows, no nothing.
35:52
Very shallow balcony and you know, I think it's a slightly raised or sunken floor and uh and that's it.
35:59
And and you know, I mean sound wise, not trying to be rude or anything, but it's not like it's just like the most sonically beautiful experience.
36:03
But something about that room just pulls out these remarkable performances.
36:07
So Soundgarden in there, so Rollins in there was like I'm surprised the place survived that.
36:13
>> It Yeah, it did the walls were probably melting.
36:17
>> I mean, he's just like his energy is like out of control. He's like Thanos >> Yes. >> microphone.
36:23
>> [laughter] >> I had a a about him on one of my first records.
36:28
>> I Was it Rollins Power Sauce or something?
36:30
>> Yeah, Rollins Power Sauce, yeah.
36:32
>> [laughter] >> I mean like it's it's so much of that like >> Which I He was a big hero of mine growing up.
36:38
I used to go to his poetry readings. >> Yeah.
36:41
>> So he was the singer of Black Flag for people who don't know. >> That's right.
36:44
>> Who were the most hardcore band in LA. >> Yeah.
36:48
>> And he would do poetry readings. He put out poetry books.
36:52
>> And he wrote um some amazing uh like long form books as well, some real literature and all kinds of I mean he's an interesting dude.
36:57
I remember being terrified of him when I interviewed him as a younger guy in the in New Zealand and he was so smart and thoughtful and cool. >> Yeah.
37:07
>> You know, he was just like I remember walking away just being like I thank God that went well cuz he was such an intimidating guy.
37:12
>> We were very intimidated, yeah. >> So intimidating. >> Yeah.
37:15
>> He had this energy of just like uh live a righteous life or you'll hear from me.
37:19
>> [laughter] >> I mean >> Or show up at like you know he you'll be asleep [snorts] and you wake up and he'll be standing over you like >> Yeah.
37:27
>> You didn't do your press-ups last yesterday.
37:28
You didn't drink your your smoothie. >> Right. >> I'm watching you.
37:33
>> Yeah, I know he was very aspirational.
37:35
He He was just like this Renaissance man who did everything. >> Mhm.
37:39
>> And it was very inspiring coming from a place where I'll never have a record deal, I'll never have a book publisher.
37:45
He He just made his own book publishing companies and and just did it all.
37:50
He was never asked for for permission. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
37:55
>> Um this song >> was actually really funny.
37:57
Like his poetry shows were like one-man stand-up shows. >> A shout-out to him.
38:02
He's had an incredible career, multiple different um art forms and his podcast and his interviews.
38:07
He's so he's like he's so brilliant.
38:08
I've listened to so many amazing conversations that he's great at that. >> as well.
38:12
>> Yeah, exactly great taste.
38:12
It's amazing heroes who just continue to find new ways to just like stay in art.
38:16
That is that's the trick, right? You're a dad, I'm a dad.
38:21
I mean, there's lots of people out there who um remember the the the various transition points when the quote-unquote industry or the ways to get in changed or whatever.
38:29
But, isn't the idea just to keep it moving and just stay engaged and stay curious? >> Yeah.
38:34
Uh I mean, for me there's not enough time to do all the things. >> Amazing.
38:40
What [snorts] a beautiful thing to say. >> Yeah. >> I love that.
38:43
>> There's just not enough time.
38:45
Uh it for me like there's five, six, seven albums on the runway. >> [snorts] >> You know?
38:54
And there's only so many hours in the day to finish them all or, you know, and I hope to get to them all at some point, but >> What's your that techno album, that jazz album, all these great albums we're waiting for? >> Oh, yeah.
39:05
I have Yeah, and some of them are partially recorded, you know, they're sketched out, you know.
39:11
Just got to find that 6 months to really dig in deep.
39:16
>> Have you ever done an album that we've yet to hear that that's a a genuine collaborative album or genuine collaborative project, not just a guest on one song or whatever, but like, I like you, you like me, let's come together and let's actually connect our talents.
39:32
>> Yeah, I have I had a record I started with this Japanese artist in Cornelius. >> I love Cornelius.
39:37
>> It was probably around 25 years ago.
39:41
And we were sending things back and forth.
39:44
And we never finished it, but um that was one.
39:47
But, I've done I've done a lot of I love collaborating.
39:49
It's it's, you know, being a you know, a solo artist, I I always wanted to be in a band.
39:55
I'd be touring with Pavement and just thinking, man, that's so cool.
40:00
I wish I was in a band or the Beastie Boys, you know. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:05
>> Uh just to have that that collaboration with a a group of like-minded people.
40:10
But, um I got to work on I did a record with the Black Keys who I took on one of their very first tours um maybe 23, 24 years ago when they were just starting out.
40:21
Uh we did a whole US tour together and they reached out to me I don't know, four or five years ago to make a record with them and I came in got write songs with them.
40:32
We did like 10, 12 songs. >> That's right.
40:34
We spent I remember speaking to the band about that album with them.
40:36
I'm surprised you could keep a straight face for more than 5 minutes with those guys.
40:39
I mean, they're two of the straight funniest guys I've ever spoken >> Oh, yeah, yeah.
40:42
There's a lot of love, yeah.
40:44
>> There's a lot of that.
40:44
It's just non-stop laughter.
40:46
>> And Jack White, we also have a lot of songs that we've recorded over the decades and have talked about putting that out at some point.
40:55
>> Yeah, I wonder about that.
40:55
I wonder whether or not you just go set yourself up at Third Man for a week or whatever and just jam it out cuz it's such a unique sound and unique environment and aesthetic to what's going on up there.
41:04
I love that just the it's so multi-sensory what he's created.
41:09
It's not just a singular distribution tool.
41:11
You walk in, it's like I feel when I touch it, it's Third Man.
41:14
I smell it, it's Third Man, you >> He's created his own world, yeah.
41:17
Which is which is what I tell people.
41:19
I said, you know, if you're starting out something, I don't know if you're making short films or you're trying to do comedy or something, just make your own world.
41:32
Just you know, ignore everything else.
41:35
Just just uh indulge yourself in everything you love and and don't ask for permission, don't wait for somebody to tell you what's cool.
41:44
Just make your own thing and even if it's just for your five friends, great.
41:53
Uh you know, just write songs about your friend you know, uh uh Tom, you know, or you know just write write things about your world and make things for your world and and and Jack's a perfect example of that.
42:07
He He when I I him pretty early on and he even at that point he hadn't sold all the records, he didn't have all the notoriety, but he already had his whole he had this whole world that he'd made.
42:26
And uh I think that's where a lot of the great art comes out of.
42:32
You know, when you think of art collectives, you know, you when you think of even like London in the '60s, you know, it's it's a scene of bands and they were they all kind of came up together and they fed each other creatively.
42:45
Um you know, that's what that's what we're born to do.
42:50
>> Even in the absence of that, I feel like he was already creating that world in his head.
42:53
I went to the when we were in Detroit and we were walking around Detroit with him.
42:59
We were doing some filming and stuff and we went to the place where he was he did his upholstery work. >> Yeah.
43:05
>> And have you been there? Has he taken you there? >> an upholsterer. >> He was. >> Before before music.
43:11
>> And on the on the walls all this graffiti and stuff that he just put up there and there's like Jack White the Third and he's got like the three and then he's got like the color schemes of the red, white, and the black and then he's got the yellow and the black and the of of Third Man already sitting like he's figured it out and >> Yeah. >> It's crazy. >> It's inspiring. I I love >> inspiring.
43:31
>> I I I wish I had done more of that, you know.
43:34
>> Can you imagine having one of those couches or one of those chairs that has a an early Jack White demo stitched into it? They're out there. >> I know. I know.
43:41
Yeah, I remember him telling me about that when I first met him. Um I'm waiting for it.
43:49
>> [laughter] >> I love I love the idea of secret albums.
43:52
>> It's the great Wonka factory play.
43:52
It's like I got the ticket. How would you even know?
43:56
>> I mean, there might be some secret back albums on YouTube somewhere. >> Seriously? Wow. >> [sighs] >> Who knows?
44:06
>> [laughter] >> I love you, man. >> Love you. Yeah, man. Always great.