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That's when I really realized at 18 years old that I was on the spiraling downfall of hating who I was. I was working.
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I was making great money, but when you're working and making great money, but you feel really crappy about yourself, there's nothing that will bring you joy at all. Hello everyone.
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Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thank you so much for being a member of this community.
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Thank you for committing to self-work, love, and life every single week.
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And you know, I have this commitment to all of you.
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You take out of time out of your day, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're on the way to the gym or at the gym, whether you're at the work or you're commuting back home, you commit to taking your time for being here, and I commit to you to bringing guests who can truly transform the way you live, work, and think.
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And today's guest is absolutely incredible.
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She's someone who's become a recent friend.
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I'm excited to get to know her more and more every time we're together, and she's someone who's not going to disappoint.
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She doesn't really need an introduction, but I'm going to give her one anyway because she liked the words that I had on my sheet.
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But her name is Ashley Graham.
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She's an incredible supermodel.
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She's breaking barriers through body activism, and she's a style icon and designer, and she's the host of an incredible show on Ellen Digital Network called Fearless.
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Ashley, thank you so much for doing this. Hi Jay. Hey. So happy to be here.
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I'm so grateful to have you here. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
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I love it, and I'm so glad because we literally met, I think like a month ago.
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Yes, at the Ellen DeGeneres like kind of launch.
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They they have their What is it called? The Upfronts? Upfronts. That's it. Upfronts in New York. Yes.
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And you're launching season two of Fearless.
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And I was already a fan of Jay Shetty.
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The I was already following you.
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It was already the thing.
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You weren't following me yet. That's okay. That's not okay. friends now. No, I'm just kidding.
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Um but it was so nice and then and then we had a nice really great lunch and here we are.
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did and I actually didn't know this but I told her that day when we met I was like, "Ashley, I've been stalking you for a long time actually because I I saw you speak at the Forbes 30 under 30 event in Israel." Yeah, exactly.
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So, I'd seen you from then and then we bumped into each other at UPW in LA.
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And then and then we met here.
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And actually this was this is what really impressed me about Ashley.
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She was attending the Met for like the 25th time or whatever it is. Third, right?
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But you know so she was attending the Met.
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And and everyone that week was telling me how busy they were with the Met and getting ready.
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Then Ashley I do you want to do lunch one day before the Met like before our fitting and I was just like here is such an awesome human who has time to have lunch and I I don't know Jay.
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I I really think that people just want to be like they want to get their relaxation in before the Met because it's such a crazy day and evening.
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But I always have time for lunch. Yeah. Always. Well, thank you.
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And you you looked amazing at the Met. Thank you. It was so much fun.
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Dan really did a great job. Yeah, it was incredible. It was amazing.
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Well, today I'm excited to dive into your journey, your story.
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I can't wait for my audience to learn more about you and fall more in love with you as well.
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So, really really excited to do that and I want to start where it all began for you and being spotted at a mall. I know. It's so weird.
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I think you know so that's really where I was discovered as a model but if you take it back and you go back to like how I was raised.
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I'm from I'm from Texas, Atlanta, Arkansas, New Hampshire and Nebraska.
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My dad was a business consultant so we moved around a lot and every time he got a better job is when we were moving.
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And from there I mean my mom she was raised as a farmer in a farmer family and my dad was low class working class kind of family.
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So, when they raised me and my sisters it was really about like being humble, working hard and when you start something you finish it.
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So, when I was in the mall and the scout came up to me and said, "Hey, do you want to be a model?"
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It was another opportunity that my mom and dad saw as something like, "Oh, maybe she'll like this thing."
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Because I didn't love basketball, I didn't love soccer, volleyball.
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Because my mom and dad also played a lot of sports, they just kept putting me into sports.
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I also was not artistic at all.
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Like, these are just, you know, I It's like I wasn't good at anything.
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And then modeling came about and they're like, "Let's try it."
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And next thing you know, it just kind of all stuck with me.
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And um I went through what someone might call like a modeling school, but it was kind of like this expo where they put you um in front of many different agencies, and you kind of have to prance around and like, I don't know, show your stuff, and an agency liked me and signed me.
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And um it it it was just like all very surreal.
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I had no idea what modeling was.
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I didn't know what Vogue was.
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I didn't know what pretty meant.
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I knew like what being the the most the like having being the most popular in high school or middle school was, but I did not know what beautiful was until I got into this industry that dictated what beauty was.
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And then that's when it was like a whole new world for me.
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And I moved to New York at 17.
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I had modeled all through high school, and I traveled I traveled the world, and even when I got home from Paris all the time, my mom would still be like, "You have to mow the lawn, Ashley."
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This is how I was raised. I was like very humble.
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She's like, "I don't care how much money you just made. It doesn't matter.
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You still have to babysit your sister."
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So, I was like, "Okay, great. Well, thanks, Mom."
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Everybody in Paris loved me.
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Um uh but it was it was interesting because it was like two different parallels of what beauty is.
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At home, um my mom raised me to believe in myself and that my exterior had nothing to do with my worth.
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And um and she raised my sisters the exact same way.
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She never looked at herself and degraded herself in front of the mirror, never said she needed to go on a diet.
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She was very strong and adamant about those things and that kindness was the was the most beautiful thing that you could wear.
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And then I'm in this world that is only based off of your exterior, that is about your worth with your hip your size to hip measurement, with how beautiful your hair is, what your eye shape is.
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You know, you you don't you're not supposed to have a voice as a model.
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There's so many It was just very strange to me.
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So, I knew who I was from my mother and and my my father growing up, but then I had to conform to an industry that I wanted to fit into.
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And um the reason I think I wanted to fit into it because it was a whole new world.
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It was like tasting a new piece of candy.
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It was people offered, you know, obscene amounts of money.
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They offered you to to feel like you were in.
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They offered you the opportunity to um to be cool.
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And those are things that I had never felt afforded.
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And now it's like, oh, do I want those things?
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What do I have to do to get in?
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And you you start to see yourself um kind of make changes in your own belief system to fit into an idea or an ideal that was set that doesn't need to be.
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And that's exactly what happened.
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It was It was just kind of this like messy spiral downfall where I had to catch myself really quick before I fell into it.
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That's so powerful though that you had this incredible upbringing. I thought I did.
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and just how she spoke to you about beauty and your family and I think that that's so unique and rare today as well. Mhm.
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Because I know a lot of people who'd actually say, actually because of the way I was raised, that's where a lot of my insecurities come from.
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I know because As opposed to their strengths.
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I talked to a lot of moms and I always tell them like, how are you speaking about yourself in front of your kids?
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Because that's how your your kid is going to actually think of themselves cuz they know they're a product of you. Yes.
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Whether they're adopted or whether they are actually physically yours, uh um there is no way that they are going to look at themselves any differently.
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And I've seen it on all spectrums with mothers that have said have never said anything bad to their parent or to their kid, but have talked very badly about themselves, and you see the product of the child.
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And um you know, and I've I've met people who their parents have talked really poorly to them, and they're some of the most confident people. So, you know.
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Yeah, it can go either way. Yeah. It really can. It can go either way.
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But, how did you Tell me this, because I think you're someone who at such a young age went through so many huge transformations, so many huge transitions. Yes. Right?
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It can't be easy being spotted, traveling all over the world, making all this money, being signed.
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All of this at such a young age, being brought into this huge industry, which already has expectations.
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How did you start watching yourself, catch yourself?
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Like, how were you able to notice when things were going too far?
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Because I think a lot of people miss that when they start working for a new company, and they start fitting in, or they join a particular business school or university, and they start fitting in, or whatever it may be.
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For you, you did it in the most extreme sense, so I'd love to know. Of course.
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So, just being thrown into an industry that, like you said, it's the money, it's the travel, it's the experience, and then it's also about staying in that kind of like it mode.
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And the thing about being a curvy model is that at that time, you only were in basically one category, and that was catalog.
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So, I didn't have to be like an it girl on the runway that had to like keep my hair in like a buzz cut and like platinum, and then like have it long for next season just to like feel different.
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Like, I just had to make sure that I was doing all the things that that the industry expected of me.
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And whether that was talking how they talk, or or or losing the weight that they wanted me to lose, or um dressing the way, or whatever it was.
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But the thing is, because I was raised in a very Christian upbringing, and because I was raised with such um understanding of uh of my worth in in except for I wish my mom and dad would have talked to me about sex a lot more.
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I really do, because because I knew who I was, um thank God I could stand up for myself.
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But because I didn't understand um sex and what it was to to have worthiness over myself, that's where my downfall was.
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Because I didn't have a great relationship with my father, and in trying to fit in to this fashion world and not knowing who I was and people telling me, "Oh, you're not good enough.
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Oh, you need to lose weight.
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Oh, your hair is oh, or your eyes or whatever it was, your hip measurement."
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It was like, oh, then I needed to go find my worth.
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And then I would go find my worth in food.
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I would find my worth in men.
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I would find my worth in gossip.
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And that's when I really realized at 18 years old that I was on this spiraling downfall of hating who I was. I was working.
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I was making great money.
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But when you're working and making great money, but you feel really crappy about yourself, there's nothing that will bring you joy at all.
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So, I called my mom and I was like, "Mom, I'm not doing this anymore.
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I'm not I don't want to be a model.
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I want to leave New York City.
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This is just something that has gotten to me."
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And she told me, and I swear to God, my mother is so prophetic.
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She said, "Ashley, your body is going to change someone's life, and you have to finish what you started."
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And I was like, "I have no idea what you're saying, lady, but I'm going to listen because we're supposed to listen to our mommies and daddies."
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And she said, "I'm going to come up to New York and I'm going to spend some time with you."
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Cuz I was really just going through a hard time.
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And she told me, she's like, "Okay, you have to start going back to church." I was like, "What?
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I don't want to go to church, Mom."
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But, you know, you when you're raised in that atmosphere, and then your mom is like, okay, this was her rule.
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Like, you only I only had to go to five churches and one time and just to feel it out.
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And the first church I walked into, I saw three people that I had known from my church in Texas that I had gone to.
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And it was like this It was like a sign.
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It was like, wow, I see family in this church.
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So, I started going to this church and I finally finally found like a a community.
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And it was like outside of the modeling industry.
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It's It's like I had my whole life wrapped up into these people who didn't know me, who didn't want me because I wasn't fitting into an ideal.
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So, then I started making friends outside of it all.
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And it's like I went back to my roots.
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I went back to who who am I?
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And thank God I did because it took me out of that nasty feeling of not feeling feeling worthy. I stopped having sex.
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I was completely celibate after that.
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I I I I just I started actually doing affirmations.
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And it was something that my mom talked to me about when I I had no idea what they were.
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But, she said because because we are Christian and we really really we we really believe that words have power.
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And I know that this is like many people that believe this, but it's like one of the biggest lessons in the Bible.
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And so, she broke it down for me and she was like, if you keep calling yourself ugly and fat and and not worthy and all these things, then that's exactly what you're going to be. Yes.
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So, she said, change your words.
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And that's what I had to do and it really helped me as well.
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And it was something The words that I made for myself were, I am bold, I am brilliant, I am beautiful, I am worthy of all, I love you.
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And I love you was the hardest one of them all.
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And it wasn't like I just said these things and overnighted like bada bing, bada boom, like, oh, I'm a miss confidence. Yeah.
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It was really it was inner work, it was outer work, it was dedication to knowing that I could change the trajectory of my future by having these words be my truth.
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And having these words be my truth has now enabled me to tell my full story and have other people's stories come out and talk to them about what affirmations are.
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And and and what how your words are really killing you.
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Um so, thank god for mom. Yes.
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She really pulled me out of the water.
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It's been really it was really great. That's beautiful.
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What an incredible relationship to have. That's awesome.
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And I thank you for sharing so openly as well because I think so many of us start to validate ourselves through a partner, right? Through men or women. Yes. Through food. Yes.
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We start to validate ourselves through all these different ways and we don't even know we're doing it.
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And so to hear you say, I'm sure a lot a lot of people listening and watching right now are going to be like, "God, I've done that, too." Yeah.
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And I was sharing just literally you've you've hit it for me 2 weeks ago when I was doing Red Table Talk with Jada, I talked about that how I would find my validation in how I treated women. Mhm.
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So, it wasn't even what I got from them, it was just like if I could show off how amazing I was during my teens, then that would make me feel more validated if they were impressed by me. I know.
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And and I think we get lost in this web and we're just weaving this web and you're just getting more and more lost and trapped and you don't even know. And you feel so empty.
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And you feel so empty even if you're externally successful and ticking all the boxes. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
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And and the fact that you broke through it because I do feel that and I said this to you when we met, you've literally shifted an industry.
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Like you you have changed the industry from the way I view it and from the way I experience it and from the way so many other people experience it now and I and I mean that.
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And the fact that you've been able to go from a place where actually all of these things were forced upon you to you now having a really powerful voice, right?
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Being able to share all these messages around it.
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I think that that's the transformation I'd love for you to walk us through Yeah.
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because I think that's the story of everyone.
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Like your story is the story of everyone, maybe not as extreme, Right.
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but everyone who feels like, "Yeah, you're not good enough.
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You're not going to be able to do that. That's not possible.
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Or it doesn't work like that." Right?
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And then being able to break that.
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I love the affirmation point you made.
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So, let's start with that journey of transformation.
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to hear about how you did the work cuz I know you have. Oh my god.
15:53
And and it's like how do you get to the point of looking in the mirror and saying, "I love you." and meaning it? Yeah.
15:57
Because I agree I love affirmations, too, but you have to feel to know You have to know it in yourself, right?
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And it's one of those it's it's it's really it's a lot of inner work.
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And for me, understanding that quiet time in the morning and meditation and prayer is like so it is it is the thing that will get me through the day.
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I will wake up, I will feel terrible, I'll feel my mind will be foggy or whatever, but that quiet time in the morning, whatever you choose to do with it, that is your time.
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And and it is so precious to me.
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So, that has some been something that has been a staple for me.
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Um and uh the affirmations, I mean, I say them in the car.
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Before I walked up here, I was like, "I am bold, I am brilliant, I am beautiful.
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I am worthy, and Jay and I are going to have a great conversation." Yeah, absolutely.
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It's It's just in me now, so I don't have to recite it constantly, but everybody's affirmations are different.
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Just to wrap up the affirmations, but everybody's are different.
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And once you make yours and you say it, write it on your mirror, write it on a paper, like actually physically write it, type it out if you love to type.
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Like whatever those things are for you so that you can embody it.
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And they can change over time, too, which I think is very important.
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Um so, as you were saying like that I have you your words that I've changed an industry, it's hard to go back and be like, "When did it all begin? Yeah, I can imagine.
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Because for me, I was just this like girl from Nebraska working my butt off just trying to like, you know, sustain a $4,000 rental in financial district.
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And I'm like, this is what people pay? Like, this is insane.
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I'm living in 800 square feet. This is not okay.
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This is why I moved to Brooklyn. Smart. Right.
17:43
Um but it was it was just it was always such a heavy workload and I didn't I was just I always felt like I was swimming upstream.
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And even as my worth developed and even as my my my understanding of who I was and that my worth wasn't wrapped up in men, my worth wasn't wrapped up in in food, it wasn't wrapped up in in my career, I still struggled and wanted something more in my career.
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And I wanted to be able to make change in a different way.
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And I think that where a lot of it began where a lot of it began was I was in a commercial that was banned from television because of my size because I was a lot in lingerie and a girl that was a size 16. I was 16 at the time.
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I'm a size 14 for all of you wondering.
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Everyone was on the same god, but people are always so just, you know, We're still addicted to numbers, wrapped up in Gosh.
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Anyways, that's another conversation.
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Anyways, so I was a size 16 girl in lingerie in this commercial and I was like going to meet my boyfriend. It was banned from TV.
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And that's really where kind of my career took took like this trajectory of like, oh, there's this girl and like maybe we want to get to know her.
19:03
And that is when I realized, okay, I have a voice. How do I use it? Oh, social media. Okay.
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So, I'm going to use social media to just tell my truth.
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I don't know what's going to happen, but it wasn't just me that wanted this change.
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It was so many people in the industry that were like, "We aren't just plus size, we're women.
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Like, we want to we want to have clothes that fit us.
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This isn't just about um skinny women being able to be dressed in cool clothes.
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This is about every woman being able to dress and be in cool clothes."
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So, I really used social social media as a stepping stone in order to just have a voice, but I didn't know that that was going to be my biggest stepping stone.
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So, I I remember just like posting photos of myself in in um swimsuits or lingerie and not retouching the cellulite out. Shocking.
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And getting all kinds of women just saying like, "How brave of you?"
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Or how courageous that you would actually do something like that. I would never.
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Or like, "Thank you for giving me the confidence to be able to do that."
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And um and and I thought, "Okay, well, this is good.
20:09
This is like this is a thing." Yeah, it's real. Yeah, yeah, people care. Exactly.
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And then I realized that there was a mark there was a hole in the market for lingerie and that people were looking at me as a lingerie girl.
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They didn't know my name, but they knew that I was a lingerie girl because of this commercial that was banned.
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So, I was like, "Well, great.
20:26
I'm going to make lingerie for all of you then."
20:27
And because I could take a step back and look at where there was holes and where I could fill it at the time because at the time I was 22 years 22 Yeah, 23 23 years old because I started also lingerie line because I had been in the same position on the couch when my husband left for the house in the morning and he came back that same night and I was like literally just still watching Real Housewives.
20:53
And he's like, "Is this what you want with your life?"
20:54
And I and I was like, "What do you mean?"
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He said, "Do you really just want to be stuck in this kind of career and this job and doing this same thing?" And I thought, "I don't. I don't want that. What can I do?"
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And that's when I went and took a step back and made a vision board about who who I want to be, what do I want, and that's when the idea of the lingerie line came around.
21:15
And um it's funny because people who have changed industries and people who have made such impacts in the world, I don't know that they've actually set out to do it. I think it just happens.
21:27
And I've just taken every little every little gap that that has that has that I've seen in my industry and I've tried to fill it.
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Because if I'm filling it with my voice, then that then I know that I'm filling it with a voice that is like so many other people who just want to be included, who want to have inclusivity, who don't want to be called different because we are the norm.
21:52
And it's it's just a conversation that I've had to keep having, but it's incredible the strides that have happened along with it. Absolutely.
22:01
For everyone who's listening and watching right now, Ashley is gracefully sharing her story.
22:05
She didn't even point this out, but it's like you literally took your commercial getting banned from being on TV and turned that into something incredible, which I love. Thank you.
22:15
Because it's so easy for any of us to hit any roadblock, hit any barrier, hit a rejection, hit a no.
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For most of us, like if our book doesn't get picked up or if your TV commercial gets banned or if your movie never made it out of script or whatever it is or it didn't make it out of a pilot phase, a lot of us would be like, "Oh my god, my life's falling apart.
22:32
Like I'm not going to make it or I didn't get into the college I wanted or I didn't get the promotion I wanted."
22:37
But you went and took that same thing and that actually led to the birth of your lingerie line.
22:43
Which is just phenomenal. Like I love that.
22:45
It's just an example of how any situation can be the biggest blessing in the world. Yeah.
22:49
I really I think of no's as maybes and I and I turn my maybes into yeses.
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And I'm I know that not just one person is going to give me an answer.
22:59
So there wasn't a door that I didn't knock on.
23:01
And I thank my parents all the time for instilling that hard working ethic in me because it doesn't matter what you're doing in your career.
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You understand this, I understand this.
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You have to work your butt off.
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And and you have to work your butt off even harder when you get to the top because then you want to stay there. Absolutely. 100%. 100%.
23:21
So, you think you're working hard now? It's true. It's true. So, um I I I don't know.
23:26
I was just I I just think that that was a very pivotal moment and then it all just kind of started spiraling into these great opportunities.
23:36
Um and also just being able I did a TED Talk which was like also very scary for me. Very scary.
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But, it enabled me to have a voice and so many models were silenced.
23:49
We are just told that, you know, you're a pretty face, be quiet. And um It's crazy. It's It blows my mind.
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I know because I mean, we're people.
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Like, we have many opinions.
23:58
We have many things that we're passionate about.
24:01
We want to change the world.
24:01
And uh I actually in my book, I I wrote a chapter about when models talk.
24:07
And uh it's it's a really it's interesting because I had started this group called ALDA and it was me and four other curvy girls who had been switching agencies and we did it together because we knew if we went to a really big agency that did not have any curve models, we could really change the industry. Wow.
24:25
And we made these business proposals and we talked about how much money we each made and how much money that the whole curve industry is making and where what the trajectory of the industry is.
24:35
And we took it as like this business opportunity to really to to tell the to tell the industry who we were, not just as the five of us, but like who we are as curvy women. Yeah.
24:47
And they took they listened and and sure enough, 6 years later, here we are and the god, I didn't know that part. I I that.
24:55
I'm so glad you're sharing that. do it alone.
24:56
There's nothing you can do that you that that is only going to be you.
25:01
There's teams that are behind people.
25:03
There is mountains that are that you have to climb over to get to these places and you need people along the way to help you.
25:11
And I always thank those girls and we stay really close. Um but yeah.
25:15
Yeah, I know I I love that you brought up that point.
25:17
I was sharing the other day that I feel like so many of us when you're starting in a space, you look at everyone else as your competitor. Right.
25:25
And you're like, okay, who's who's winning in this space?
25:26
What's my competitor analysis? Yes. Right?
25:28
Like, oh, she's number one.
25:30
I'm number 10 or whatever it is. Yes.
25:31
So, actually, what you've just shown is this beautiful example of collaboration, right?
25:35
Collaborators in seeing everyone.
25:36
And I remember when I first started making content, for me it was the same.
25:40
I was looking at every content creator as someone I could potentially collaborate with.
25:43
And I would literally write to everyone and just be like, "Hey, I really believe that we need to share these messages.
25:47
Why can't we support and share with each other?" Mhm.
25:51
And a few years later, I've seen the growth of all these incredible other platforms.
25:54
And we all work together in the same way.
25:57
So, I love hearing that because I think so often we feel alone and we choose a lonely path when we don't need to. Mhm. Right? No, it's so true.
26:06
And especially in the fashion industry, everything is a competition. Yes.
26:09
And it's about the Instagram followers. Who's got covers?
26:11
You know, who's in the campaigns?
26:12
Who's on the who's on the runways?
26:14
And it was a really groundbreaking for people to see us all band together.
26:18
And even the agencies were shook by it.
26:20
They were like, "You told each other how much you make?" Like, "How dare you?" Exactly.
26:26
But we had to because we wanted to make sure that we were making the right decision. Yeah. Uh oh, go on. No, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay.
26:32
But I was going to bring up another um great story in that even though I did that, I still had to learn another lesson a couple years later.
26:38
Um where actually it was it was a year prior. My bad.
26:43
I'm getting my my timeline all mixed up.
26:45
But there was a cover that I was up for and it was Italian Vogue.
26:49
And Italian Vogue in fashion industry is like being on the cover of Forbes in in in our this side of the Okay.
26:58
And it is like oh, the creme de la creme and I was on hold to be on this job.
27:02
And the night before I get the call and they're like you didn't get confirmed, but three other brunettes did.
27:09
And I was shook and I thought okay, there's a day two and they told me that maybe I'll get into day two.
27:18
The next night they called me and they're like Ashley, sorry you didn't get it.
27:21
And I I I honestly went ate a whole lasagna because like that was like my method of just like coping and healing.
27:27
And um I said to my agent and I said is this going to ruin my career?
27:31
These three brunettes like they're going to take over and they're they're going to take every job that I've ever worked so hard to get.
27:37
And he said don't worry about it.
27:39
Like you're my money maker. You're my star.
27:41
Nothing will happen to you.
27:44
Sure enough when this cover came out it was like boom, I stopped working and these other girls just started getting more and more jobs and more fame like whatever that was for them and I was so pissed. I was pissed. I was angry. I was jealous.
28:00
I There was so many emotions that were going on in my mind.
28:05
And there was nothing that I wouldn't that I felt like I couldn't have done to get on that cover but except for just be pissed at that point.
28:13
And I had this probably three-day conversation with myself about what it it what would it have meant to me to be on that cover.
28:23
And I talked to myself through what the success of my feelings would have been, all of the the um the highs, what jobs I would have gotten, all of that stuff.
28:30
And I said, but it didn't happen. Mhm. It wasn't yours. Mhm.
28:37
And the moment that I could say that to myself and realize that that wasn't mine and I forgave myself for getting so angry, It was like poof, it was out of my mind and I could just share it with other people and it was more of like a funny thing and a life lesson in some senses.
28:55
And and then I and now I can even talk about it today because it was it was something that that had me so shaken up, but now I didn't need that cover.
29:06
I didn't need that cover to get to the next stage because God works in mysterious ways where he gives you exactly what you can have and or what you can handle in that moment. And I didn't need it.
29:15
And he wanted to teach me a lesson on on just being comfortable in my own space and not having it all. Yes.
29:22
And I was really I mean it d- it took me a while to be okay with that.
29:27
But but now I look back and I think got wow, I'm so glad that I was able to handle the situation that I did.
29:34
Yeah, thank you for sharing both human aspects. Yeah.
29:38
Like and like I'm glad I'm glad that you told us about that side, too. Yeah.
29:41
And and thank you for sharing both stories.
29:43
Like the first story showing collaboration, community, coming together, but then actually showing on the flip side of course, we all want to win, we all want to do well. Exactly.
29:53
And we will go through moments of feeling extremely angry, extremely upset.
29:57
And I love that you said you had a three-day conversation with yourself, which I think is awesome, by the way.
30:02
Like I think everyone should set more meetings with themselves on their calendar, right?
30:05
Like our calendars are full of meetings with other people.
30:08
Imagine you actually had a meeting that said me. Me. Right?
30:10
Like Oh, I should do that. Yeah.
30:12
We need We need everyone to have a calendar on their You know, a calendar moment that says me, a meeting with myself.
30:16
It's the most important meeting of the day. Yeah.
30:19
And I just think that it's so awesome that you shared both sides with us because I I do think it's human Absolutely.
30:25
And it's human to want to win and to succeed and to be ambitious.
30:30
How were you able from that point on then to poof, it's all disappeared, you're not feeling that envy and that pain anymore, but to pave a new path for yourself and then notice, as you said, in your words, God's plan of paving a new path and a new lesson for yourself.
30:44
How were you then able to open up to that opportunity?
30:45
Well, I think then I just had tunnel vision and that I didn't have competition.
30:50
It was just everything was about what am I doing and what do I want to see?
30:55
And it's been really great to be able to work with people.
30:57
My team is incredible and be able to come to them and say, "Okay, this is what I see that that needs to happen in my career, but this is also what I see that needs to happen in the fashion industry.
31:07
And how can we fill the void and how can we fix things and change things?"
31:11
And it's been really great to be able to work with designers like Prabal Gurung and Christian Siriano and Michael Kors and and and just be able to to have natural conversations about like what's really happening in the industry, but then also to have the confidence in myself to be able to do those things.
31:27
And I think now is the time.
31:29
People want that change and the body positive, the body inclusivity conversation has just poof blown up. Yes.
31:39
And um and and now now more than ever we're seeing women and men, honestly, which has been really cool, of all shapes, sizes, ages, colors.
31:49
Um I mean, name the gamut.
31:52
It's like it inclusivity is like really where it's at.
31:56
Um but staying true to who you are is easy when you know who you are.
32:05
And I think that I'm 31 and through my 20s I had to really get to know myself and I had a lot of like what felt like maybe carpal tunnel because I was just writing a lot about journaling about who I wanted to be, who what my goals were and and all these different things and and and I when I look back at those journals, I laugh because I feel like I was so immature.
32:27
Like I really like wanted such little things. Uh-oh. Sorry.
32:34
Like I I really like I look and I think wow I was so close-minded, but I'm so glad that I have that proof to myself how much I've grown.
32:42
And and it's it's it's nice to look at the fashion industry and say like wow things are really moving and then be able to look back at the journals and be like wow, I I mean it it's just incredible to see like the maturity of like everything all at once.
32:59
Um so yeah, I think that just really knowing who you are and getting to know yourself is really key in whatever industry that you're in and whatever mountain you're trying to move.
33:07
Yeah, absolutely so well said, so well said and I think one of the things that you're really raising that's important to me here is this principle of we think we have the grandest and biggest plans for ourselves and then the universe, God, whatever whatever you want to call it comes and gives you something way bigger. Way bigger.
33:27
And you just have to stay on that path and every delay really has a blessing. Yeah.
33:30
But you've just got to be able to wait and be patient and consistently keep pushing and working. Mhm.
33:34
And and I think so many people just get off the path Yeah.
33:37
before you're actually revealed that hey wait a minute like your your ideas were good, but they were much smaller and there's better things in store. to believe in yourself.
33:45
Yeah, you have to believe it.
33:45
No, I love that and and you're so right.
33:47
If you don't know who you are, you can't keep hold of that.
33:51
And you've had your fair share of the negative comments too.
33:52
Like when you when you posted your, you know, when you started to post more transparent, authentic images of yourself.
34:01
And I love how you have this thing called teachable moments Yes.
34:05
And I want you to tell our audience about it because I think so many of us like you don't have to be a supermodel or an influencer or a creator to be worried about trolls and negative comments. Everyone gets them. Yeah.
34:16
Whether you get one or you get 1,000 or you get 100,000, we all get them.
34:17
So tell us about this teachable moments.
34:19
I love So for me, I think the natural he like human reaction would be like just to have anger back and and you know, what good would that do?
34:30
You know, it's not going to do anything for for me or for the person receiving it.
34:33
So, I always like to think of it as like you like you said, like you quoted me already, a teachable moment.
34:39
Because not everybody understands where you're coming from.
34:43
Not everybody understands why you're posting a photo that you are whatever.
34:47
So, if somebody wants to write something very ignorant like stop making fat look cool, you're going to kill somebody, then I can write a message back saying that well, first of all, fat is necessary for a body like in order to live.
35:00
And thirdly, I'm not making fat fat also can be cool.
35:04
And if you want to call me fat, great.
35:06
I'm not offended by that word.
35:08
And and just having this like conversation and like break down what that person actually said.
35:12
Because a lot of times that person behind the the keyboard is already so broken. We know this. Yes.
35:19
But I also like to have these teachable moments like that for the younger generation that's watching.
35:27
Because I want them to know you can stand up for yourself and you can do it in a polite way.
35:31
You don't have to say, you know, something negative and ugly back.
35:35
You can say, oh, thank you so much for, you know, identifying the fact that my cellulite is out today. Thank you so much.
35:43
And it's just like, who cares? Yeah.
35:47
Uh but that's also, you know, it in this generation of Instagram, I'm so glad I wasn't raised in in in so young in that world because there's so much wrapped up in a double tap.
35:59
There's so much wrapped up in a comment.
36:01
There's so much wrapped up in in the followers.
36:05
And I I always I don't care how many likes I get.
36:08
Like that to me doesn't ever bother me.
36:11
I just always want to make sure that I'm replying to some of my DMs and my comments to make people know that like, hey, I see you. Yes.
36:18
Like that's all that matters.
36:18
And and if they see that I have quote clapped back in a teachable way, then so be it.
36:25
Because I think that that's how we should be clapping back. Yeah, absolutely.
36:28
And and I and I think you do that in an awesome way.
36:29
Tell me how Wait, what are what are negative comments that you get?
36:33
Negative comments that I get?
36:35
Yeah, cuz you're not showing your cellulite. Okay, no, no.
36:38
I'll tell you one of the first ones I got which I'll never forget because it was genius.
36:41
I thought it was hilarious.
36:42
So it said like, "I bet he has a wind-blowing machine for his hair to fly like that in the video." god.
36:48
So like someone literally accused me of like buying and I was like, "Well, that's such a good idea." But I was just outside.
36:53
That was when I first That was like one of the first videos I made. I didn't have a team.
36:56
It was one guy with his camera and me.
36:57
It was a super windy day in London. Oh.
36:59
And I'm sitting on the on this rooftop and then I literally my head flying. was really good, right? was really good. interview. Yeah.
37:07
And and it's just like, yeah, the So so that was one of them that I got.
37:08
I think So that's something common I get is something based on Again, it's always physical. A lot of it's physical. Exactly.
37:16
And and I'm like, "Okay, I can laugh at that. That's That's funny. That's cool."
37:18
And then often I'll get things like, "Oh, well, it's easy to say."
37:22
And then again, that's a teachable moment, too, and I'm like, "Yes, I know it's easy to say.
37:25
I get it that you're really going through it.
37:26
But this is at least opening the conversation.
37:28
Like how much can I share with you in a 3 to 4-minute video? Exactly.
37:34
I'm I'm trying my best here and that's why this podcast, conversations like this, are beautiful opportunities where we're really diving into so many of these themes in depth. Yes.
37:42
With with someone like yourself who's going through it in extreme way. Yes.
37:45
And so for me, the 3 to 4-minute videos have been windows Mhm.
37:49
for people to come into a bigger, deeper conversation.
37:51
And so I'm open about the fact that I can't answer everyone's problems in 4 minutes.
37:55
And I'm not trying to either. Right.
37:58
I'm just trying to start a conversation and that's what my videos were about.
38:00
It's how do we start a conversation about these themes?
38:04
I believed when I started making content, I believed that people are having these conversations offline Yeah.
38:08
in their personal circles or on their own, but no one was having them online.
38:13
And so I was like, "How can we urge and encourage more people to feel comfortable and confident to have them?" Yeah.
38:18
So yeah, I get I get those. So hey, hater. Hey, haters. Yeah.
38:21
Hey, haters, teachable moments. I love it.
38:22
But But one of the things I really want to ask you this, and this is something I ask a lot of people whose industry or career is based on an external accolade or award.
38:31
In In your case, for example, getting a magazine cover, like you said, Italian Vogue.
38:36
Getting a magazine cover is a big deal, right? For a model, it's huge.
38:39
I mean, that's kind of proving like progress in one sense.
38:44
How have you stayed in love with the process and motivated every day rather than waiting for that release of a cover to validate how you feel about your career and yourself?
38:58
Because Because I think everyone today has this, you know, balance between like process and result, process and result.
39:03
And I'm just I'm asking that to a lot of people at the moment.
39:05
I just think yours would be an incredible answer to have because your career is based around an external validation in this one sense. Mhm. Mhm.
39:13
So, the the question is about like how do I How do I Oh, wait, what were you going to say?
39:19
No, no, I can explain it if But you can repeat it.
39:21
it it it's about like the process of getting to that cover and then getting it or not.
39:26
When I meet you, and of course, I'm meeting you at a time when you have made shifts, you are very successful, etc.
39:32
But still, I I see you as someone who's happy.
39:35
I see you as someone who's content.
39:37
I see you as someone who's excited, bubbly, and you know, I see all these good qualities in you.
39:43
And I'm guessing that you don't live for the cover.
39:45
I'm guessing that you love life every day. I'm guessing. I'm assuming that.
39:49
And if that's true, then it's like how have you fallen in love with the process of getting to the cover and not living for the cover and then I see. Does that make sense? 100%. 100%.
40:00
So, if you wrap your For me, I haven't I can't wrap myself up with of my worth in my work. Mhm.
40:06
Because if you wrap yourself up in your worth of anything, you're going you're going to completely fail at it.
40:12
And that's like wrapping yourself up in a relationship or um I mean literally anything.
40:19
So, I have been I have made this conscious decision to be 100% comfortable and confident in who I am as Ashley.
40:30
And not have the world tell me who I am, but know who I am because of how I know God made me, because I know what comes out of my mouth, because I know what I I look at, because I know what I do on a daily basis with the tangible things that I am able to do.
40:45
And there are so many covers that have not come.
40:50
There are so many jobs that I I wish have and and would would and will that have not, but I'm not wrapped up in that because I know what I'm doing is making a change in the world that I'm living in today.
41:03
And and I think that if I were to be so wrapped up in the the actual process, then I would be living in high anxiety every day.
41:12
And I choose not to live in anxiety.
41:16
Yeah, I love that answer.
41:16
That's awesome, because that's something no one can ever take away from you. Ever. You can't. Nobody can. taken away. Yeah, exactly. Absolutely.
41:23
Thank you for sharing that.
41:24
I just I've been thinking about that a lot, especially with so many people's lives today that revolve around a cover or a movie or an event or a promotion.
41:32
It's always about this result, result, result.
41:33
But it's hard to get to that place, especially in an industry that is so wrapped up in what you do have and what people see on social media.
41:40
And and it's hard to teach the next generation that as well, because everything is about like the look and the glam and the and and like the behind-the-scenes and like on and also just like showing literally everything and not have anything sacred.
41:58
And you know, none of that bothers me.
42:00
None of that affects me, because I know who I am and I know what my mission is and I think it's important. Absolutely.
42:05
I love how that message keeps coming back through everything you say, which just shows how how crystal clear it is. It's awesome.
42:12
You mentioned that and we spoke about this at lunch about your relationship.
42:15
You've been married for 9 years? 9 years in August.
42:18
9 years, which is amazing. Congratulations. That's awesome. I love that.
42:21
I've been married for Every year is a journey. Absolutely.
42:25
I've been married for three, together with my wife for six. Okay, got it.
42:27
Yeah, we've been married for three.
42:29
Did it feel different after you got married? It did. It felt better.
42:30
I actually loved getting married. It was amazing.
42:34
Like I think it just yeah, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made and I was I was always like I always say this to everyone.
42:41
I'm like I'm I upgraded totally. Like my wife's awesome.
42:44
And that's a good feeling, too.
42:44
Like you know, you you did better than you could have.
42:47
And then you get to I can't wait to meet her. She's she's awesome. She's just great energy.
42:50
She's lovely to be around and she just she's just a wonderful soul.
42:53
So and I can't wait to meet your husband, too.
42:56
Yeah, we'll do a double date.
42:56
But but I was going to ask this because my audience loves relationship advice, loves learning about love, loves learning about understanding yourself in a relationship with another partner. Yeah.
43:08
I'd love to hear some of the most incredible lessons you've learned in your 9 years of marriage. Yes.
43:11
Uh from your partner and from that partnership.
43:16
Well, something that I've realized with Justin is that consistency is key and the more consistent you are with your partner, the more trust you're going to build with them.
43:24
Um and I think that also putting them first because when you're in a relationship, it's not about you anymore.
43:33
It's about that other person and um and that's something that, you know, being I got married at 22.
43:37
And I had to learn that lesson because at 22, you're kind of selfish. Yeah.
43:45
And Justin is so patient.
43:45
Oh my I never knew patience until I met Justin. Wow.
43:51
Like it is he is the definition of patience. That's awesome.
43:55
So I I I really had to understand what it was to put Justin before myself and and and I think that the more I put him in front of me, the more love and and and vice versa, the more that he puts me in front of him, our love has really grown.
44:10
And then we've just been consistent with that. Wow, consistency. Yeah. Which is so underrated.
44:17
It's so under But you know, the reason I even like started to fall in love with Justin is because he was consistent.
44:20
He was the only guy that I had ever dated that was actually consistent with what putting what he said into action.
44:26
And his actions and his words.
44:28
And how he was consistently calling me and dating me and relating to me.
44:33
Like he is such a consistent man that it that's really truly what I fell in love with.
44:40
What a beautiful quality to look out for.
44:41
And that's so for anyone who's listening or watching right now, you never find that in a clickbait article.
44:46
Just so you know that like consistency, it's such a great value to look for.
44:52
And we all know that you'll only be happy in life if what you think, say, and do are aligned.
44:57
And you'll only feel peace.
44:57
And similarly with your partner, if you're with someone who thinks, says, and does.
45:03
And that's aligned for them, too. That's brilliant.
45:05
That's that's such a great unique I've never heard that.
45:06
I've never heard anyone say that. Yeah, that's awesome.
45:09
No, I I just think that we struggle today to think about what we want in someone.
45:13
Again, like what you said, if you don't know who you are, similarly what we want.
45:16
What we want is based on the movies we watch.
45:18
What we want is based on the music videos.
45:19
What we want is based on what our parents had or didn't have. Right. Right.
45:24
So many of our beliefs around relationships Totally. are filling that void.
45:29
I wrote down a list of things that I wanted in a man.
45:30
And I was like And it was like my top 10. I wrote it down.
45:33
I folded it up, put it in a box, and then like poof, a year later I got it. No way. OKAY. IT'S NOT WEIRD. WRITE IT DOWN. IT'S A REAL THING. OKAY.
45:42
But I didn't write down consistency. He just came with that. Oh, okay. Oh, wow. That was just a bonus.
45:48
And then did you take this to all your dates?
45:50
And were you like under the table like Can you imagine? No, thank god.
45:55
My mom, when she was dating, um she definitely had this guy share his list with her.
46:00
And he had He had a list. woman he was with.
46:04
He had a list and he crossed out long hair and put loyal instead. That's awesome.
46:10
I love how they're in the same category as well.
46:12
It's like long hair and loyal. That is brilliant.
46:16
I picked out two of the most asked questions about relationships this year on the internet from Google.
46:19
So I want to ask them to you.
46:20
So they are the first one is what does a healthy relationship look like?
46:24
That's one of the most Googled things about relationships.
46:28
with the Okay, um healthy relate Well, no, I yeah, no, I I think it's a good question because I think a lot of people want to be in healthy relationships and for me I think that when you and your partner are making each other better. You know that song? You make me better. Yeah, yeah.
46:42
Like that's real cuz if you're making Fabulous, Ne-Yo. There we go. Early 2000s.
46:50
We're We're the same age, so yeah.
46:53
But I think that when you're making each other better and you can put each other first and then at the end of it you can both adore each other.
46:58
Like that to me is a perfect relationship because you've in a sense got it all. Yeah, I love that. Great answer.
47:06
And then we'll play that song some more as well. Yes, you make me better.
47:10
And you got to grind a little bit.
47:10
Like Grind on your partner.
47:18
Or I'm just thinking of Fabulous and Ne-Yo GRINDING EACH OTHER. I MEAN, YOU NEVER KNOW. MAYBE, YEAH.
47:25
SORRY FABULOUS AND NE-YO.
47:25
I don't know either of you, but not not putting that on you.
47:29
The second most Googled question was how can you build trust in a relationship? Consistency. Okay, yeah.
47:35
Oh my gosh, I mean I think trust in a relationship is something that that is built over time, but that you know, you talked about how like your actions, your words and and what was it?
47:48
It was your thoughts all have to line up.
47:50
But for what I've always understood is that if your action your actions will always speak louder than your words.
47:55
And you can say that you want to do something and not actually do it.
47:58
So, if you're doing what you're saying and you're staying consistent with that, then you're definitely going to build trust. 100%. Like that's it.
48:07
Like it My husband and I trust each other so incredibly that it's like we sometimes we don't see each other for a couple weeks and it's, you know, we do a quick check-in text message every day cuz that's a rule of ours. But But that's it.
48:17
Like cuz we just trust each other. Yes, absolutely.
48:21
Yeah, love is a verb, not a noun. Yes, that's fair. show it.
48:24
And that's why I think so many people get lost because you can have an abusive relationship where someone says, "I love you."
48:29
Because we think love is a noun.
48:31
Mhm, been there, done that.
48:32
and you hear love but you don't feel it.
48:34
And then you can be in a a relationship that's, you know, ownership.
48:39
Like it doesn't It's not a partnership, it's ownership.
48:41
Like someone feels like they own you, but they say, "I love you."
48:44
And again, but when you realize that love is a verb, you can then very quickly judge whether someone actually loves you or not.
48:50
And Love is a verb, y'all.
48:53
Yes, love is a verb, not a noun.
48:53
It's so easy to get lost in just being hearing the right stuff.
48:58
And if we've never heard it before, it sounds intoxicating. Right? It's amazing.
49:02
It's such a wonderful feeling to hear that you're loved even if you're not feeling it.
49:05
Uh and and I love that way that you're talking about how actions are louder than words ultimately as well.
49:13
That's same point being made there. I love that.
49:15
And then the third question I had about that was, "What's the best relationship advice you've ever received and who was it from?"
49:19
I know you'll probably say your mom.
49:21
So, no, it's not this time. Okay.
49:23
No, I mean uh sadly my mom and dad's relationship only lasted 26 years and I think she learned a lot.
49:30
I learned a lot from her divorce as well, but um my grandmother actually told me when I got married, she goes, "Ashley, choose your battles.
49:37
Not everything has to be a fight and not everything should be a fight.
49:42
So, if you feel that this is a disagreement, don't make it into a battle, just handle it right then and there."
49:48
And that's what do choose to do now.
49:50
Justin and I don't even fight.
49:51
It's like, and if we do, we're just like, this is what I think.
49:54
No, this is what I think.
49:54
Well, are we going to choose to disagree or are we going to actually get down to the nitty-gritty of it? Okay, great, done.
50:00
And we don't go to bed mad at each other. Yes.
50:01
Have you ever gone back to bed mad at your wife?
50:04
No, we That's one of our rules, too.
50:06
it is like the biggest mistake of your life if you do, because you you sleep terribly.
50:10
You wake up in the morning, you're just like pissed off at everything.
50:13
And then you have to It takes all day to fix it because you've slept on it all night.
50:17
Don't go to bed mad at each other, people.
50:21
Yeah, no, it's great advice.
50:21
And And I love that you said this. Rules.
50:25
Like you said, one of our rules is, when we're away from each other, we message each other. We have a few rules. I'd love to hear them. Yes. Yeah, please share. There's that.
50:31
We have to check in at least once a day. Yes.
50:33
We don't go longer than uh We don't go longer than 2 weeks without seeing each other. Amazing.
50:38
Cuz that's like for us, it's like the the breaking point. Yep.
50:42
Um and we always respect each other, even in a fight.
50:44
If it's If there's If there's a fight that breaks out, it doesn't matter.
50:47
We have to respect each other. I love that. Yeah.
50:51
Don't feel like you have to hurry up, it's fine.
50:52
No, no, no, I'm just I'm just watching the time. I need to be careful. You're like, yeah.
50:55
But no, no, I think that's an awesome answer. I I love rules.
50:58
I think rules are really, really important, and people feel rules ruin spontaneity, but actually it doesn't. No, it doesn't.
51:04
You can't have spontaneous sex.
51:06
We're not talking about that.
51:08
Like, just make rules for and regulations within like the time that you spend together or how you treat each other communicate, how often you communicate.
51:17
Just set standards, right? Setting standards.
51:19
So that no one's let down, and I think a lot of us we think that spontaneity and dynamism is lost with rules, but actually rules just enhance that.
51:27
It gives you more opportunity to have those.
51:28
And I've definitely seen that in so many relationships that don't have rules that actually just start losing standards, and then people end up settling I know.
51:38
or lowering their standards, and then it's lost. Yeah.
51:39
Don't lower your standards.
51:41
Yeah, don't lower your standards. Absolu- No, definitely.
51:42
It's so easy to settle in relationships. It is. It's really really easy. Been there, done that. Yeah. Yeah.
51:48
And then we lower our standards when we're lonely as well.
51:52
Like I see that a lot today that I see friends who see all their friends are in a relationship and then you want a relationship because your friends are in one. Mhm.
52:00
And so loneliness becomes your metric of why you want someone in your life.
52:04
just like a serial dater. Yeah.
52:06
Or serial sleeper-arounder. Exactly. Exactly.
52:08
And what you said about arguments is so important.
52:09
There's this incredible study by John Gottman Mhm.
52:14
and John Gottman and his wife.
52:14
I don't know how long they've been married, but they're very very very old.
52:17
And I I literally got to see them at a conference we were speaking at and I I fango'd over them because I love their research.
52:24
And and they're both so adorable together, but their research from the Gottman Institute talks about how the number one skill that keeps relationships together is not date nights, it's not cruises, it's not holidays, it's knowing how to fight. Oh, wow.
52:40
the number one skill that keeps a relationship together long-term.
52:42
So what you just said there it's like knowing how to fight.
52:46
And I I know we talk a lot about the love languages, but something I've been playing around with a lot recently is the five fight languages. What are they?
52:53
What are the five fight languages?
52:53
So we all fight differently.
52:55
Like so there are some of us in a fight situation who go quiet.
52:59
And we just need to retreat and we need to hide away and we need to process our thoughts.
53:04
Then there's another language where it's like I need to talk this out right now. Like this is it.
53:09
Like we need to have this conversation.
53:12
I don't Which one are you out of those two so far?
53:13
Or you're neither of those? both.
53:15
It really just really depends on what it is.
53:16
And then and then a third fight language is the language of I need to consult someone. Oh.
53:22
are See, I don't like to bring other people into my drama. Neither do I.
53:24
But but you hear it often where people are like oh, I need to talk to this or I need to talk to that.
53:27
Uh another fight language is the language of instant blame.
53:31
Like you just start blaming that person straight away.
53:34
Like you don't want to take any responsibility for it. Sounds very juvenile. Yes, very. But it happens. I know.
53:41
I'm sure you've experienced or seen it around. Look, I've done it.
53:44
I'm not going to sit here and lie to you. But, like, jeez.
53:48
Hearing you say it that that's like an actual trait, I'm like, I don't do that. Yeah. We we wish we didn't.
53:52
This is why I I tell people whenever you have an emotion, voice note it Right. it back to yourself. Isn't that good?
54:00
realize how silly it sounds.
54:00
If you're complaining about your partner or an argument or anything, voice note record it and play it back to yourself. Interesting.
54:08
will hear your voice and then it will sound like someone else is saying it to you and you'll be like, "Oh."
54:10
Because what we do is we take our emotions really seriously. Right.
54:15
a friend is saying something, we're like, "Oh, come on, get over it." Right.
54:18
And so, when you hear your voice as if it's a friend sharing it with you, Uh-huh.
54:20
you can kind of go The other thing that I just um Brené Brown uh was talking about is like te- what's the story you're telling in your head?
54:27
And when you can say the story that you're telling in your head to your partner and vice versa, the stories never line up. Yes.
54:35
So, I was like, "Oh, I'm going to bring that into my relationship." I just love that idea. Exactly, yeah.
54:39
Because because so many people they think so differently. Totally.
54:42
And that's totally fine, too.
54:44
I think we're always looking We're always told, "Find someone who thinks like you. Find someone alike." luck. Yeah, exactly.
54:50
How hard is that going to be?
54:51
someone with the same love language, too. Yeah, exactly.
54:53
And you don't need to, either.
54:55
That's the problem, right? So, Yeah, it's crazy.
54:57
Okay, we've got time for a couple more questions.
54:59
I wanted to talk about your partnership with Ellen Yeah.
55:04
uh because I'm about to embark on that journey.
55:06
So, need all your your wisdom. soon?
55:09
And it's Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:09
So, very excited about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:13
But, you've got season two of Fearless Yes. coming up. When's it coming out?
55:15
Is Um so, we start shooting Fearless really soon.
55:19
And it's just been so incredible because I've been able to go to some like meet people from even cities that I'm from and and and just open up a whole new door that they never thought could ever be even cracked.
55:31
And it's like we're giving opportunities to people who have felt like the underdogs, who have felt not even worthy to walk into their greatness or into the ability that that they've that they've dreamt of.
55:45
And and and being able to work with Ellen and her team has been this like incredibly eye-opening experience that I've absolutely loved.
55:53
And just seeing people's lives change right before your eyes is also just Oh.
55:59
You've got people in tears. Oh.
56:02
Like it's literally like every episode is like Yeah, it's a sound. It's like, "Oh."
56:06
So, it's been absolutely amazing. Yeah.
56:10
Yeah, I've had so much fun.
56:10
You're going to have great Yeah, it's been beautiful to watch, too.
56:12
I feel like the the emotion that's captured in in season 1 Yeah. is just unbelievable.
56:18
Like you're seeing people literally like break down having break their knees or just fall in people's arms.
56:25
And and um you know, Ricky who transitioned, it was that was this like incredible moment.
56:31
He had never met a trans person before in his life. And then there's Cox.
56:35
And here we are, you know, giving him money for for his operations.
56:40
And it's just like boom boom boom.
56:43
It it's just it's like it's heartbreaking to see that these opportunities had never been afforded to him, but it's also just so incredible to see that that we were able to to give him the space to be himself.
56:54
So, you know, I mean like and everybody's story is just so different.
56:58
That was the one that like that I kept hearing come back, though.
57:02
So, I'm excited to shoot season 2. That's amazing.
57:04
I want to go towards towards the end of our interview now, but I I wanted to ask you a question about you've seen and created so many shifts in the beauty industry. Mhm.
57:16
Which ones are you really happy about that have changed?
57:18
And which ones are you still trying to change?
57:20
Well, what I really want to see change is that that we don't have to have this conversation anymore.
57:26
That everything is the norm.
57:27
That inclusivity, diversity is the norm.
57:30
And I think that things are shifting in that direction, but you know, I've been doing this for 20 years and I've never seen something rapidly happen this quickly.
57:38
And and it's it feels like this wild success within the fashion industry, which I'm I'm so excited for everybody that's been a part of the process.
57:48
Um so I think that we need to see more curves on the runway.
57:51
I think that designers, once they start understanding that not every model or person or or or a customer is not going to fit into this ideal um size or ideal beauty or whatever, then then more designers are going to be like, oh, okay, well, I don't have to just keep putting the same type of person on the runway.
58:10
I don't have to just keep putting the same type of person in a campaign.
58:13
So, I think that that's what I'm most excited to see is like hopefully in the next 5 years we see even more of a change.
58:18
And you know, you've seen the industry changes a model, her name is Paloma Elsesser and she's um she's been doing incredible editorials that girls women that look like us that have our bodies have never been afforded before.
58:32
And um and there's so many designers like the ones that I had said before, Christian Probl, Michael, that are just giving so many opportunities for curvy women to be able to dress themselves in cool, comfortable clothes.
58:45
And uh so, yes, there's a long way to go, but we have come so far, which is also so great.
58:51
Yeah, and I love that you've been such a huge part of that. Thank you.
58:55
And to be able to sit here and have this conversation with you, like I think we should celebrate that because it's going to take I hope that this interview is going to inspire more people in whatever space you're in, whatever industry you're in, big or small, like it doesn't matter about the scale, but it's about starting to have a voice, starting to make that shift, starting to stand up for what you believe in. Stand up. Use your voice. Yeah.
59:16
And that's in any industry. Absolutely. Awesome.
59:17
So, we end every interview with a final five, which is rapid fire, quick fire round.
59:22
it in Pretty Big Deal, too.
59:22
Answers are only one word or one sentence maximum.
59:27
Oh god, Yeah, so are you ready? Yes.
59:29
Do you want to Wait, did we Do you want to talk about anything else that we haven't talked about? Exciting things?
59:32
talk about Pretty Big Deal?
59:32
Yeah, let's talk about Pretty Big Deal because I know we're going to do it when you relaunch, but yeah, let's talk about it. Pretty Big Deal. Yeah, exactly.
59:40
Wait, that's the trade, right? Yeah, it is.
59:41
No, yeah, that's why we're doing this, right?
59:43
Like we're only doing this because she's having me on.
59:48
No, I'm excited so season 2 Pretty Big Deal.
59:50
Um you know, when we had our lunch and you were explaining your process of uh of how you shoot your podcast, I was like, "Eureka, I've got new ideas."
59:56
So, I'm excited for season 2 Pretty Big Deal to come out and you know, I I wanted to start the podcast because first of all, models aren't given the opportunity to have a voice and That's That's such news to me as having never been in the modeling industry, it's so interesting from a complete outsider. Yeah.
1:00:15
Like to hear that and be like, "What?
1:00:17
How can you How can we ever not give someone a voice?" But I get it. I get it.
1:00:20
We're just supposed to be clothes hangers and just be there and be pretty. Wow.
1:00:24
So, and I've always wanted my own TV show and I've always, you know, felt like, you know, "I'm a personality. Like what can I do?"
1:00:30
But, you know, it's not like people are just handing out TV shows.
1:00:33
So, I was like, "You know what I'm going to do?
1:00:35
I'm just going to go make my own podcast because this is the generation Like our generation isn't going home and watching TV anymore.
1:00:41
We're going We're We're on the go and we're very busy.
1:00:43
So, we're listening to podcasts, we're watching YouTube and it's something that I was like, "That's That's my audience.
1:00:48
I'm going to go with them and I'm going to talk to them about issues that I have felt very passionate about, talk to them um with people that have changed my life, who have been inspirational in and in my career and in my um just my growing up and I've felt really great about being able to um just share all those different stories with my audience. Yeah, that's awesome.
1:01:11
Who were some of your favorites from season 1?
1:01:12
I love say, but No, no, no.
1:01:16
No, I mean, I loved every interview, duh.
1:01:20
Um but I loved talking to Nnenna Agba who is one of my friends that is Muslim and she wears a hijab.
1:01:25
And we really got to talk about Christianity and and being a Muslim and like not parallels, but like how we as how we came from completely different opposite sides of the spectrum, but like that we can have these natural conversations and talk about things that that that matter to us and and and be able to share so open and honestly.
1:01:47
And I think a lot it resonated with a lot of people that conversation.
1:01:51
Um, I love talking to Lilly Singh and Lindsey Vonn and Amy Schumer.
1:01:55
I mean, like, you know, just just to name a few. Yeah. Amazing.
1:01:59
And they're such awesome and they're all That's the beautiful thing that I love that everyone you've interviewed are doing such awesome purposeful work. Like everyone Yes.
1:02:09
on the podcast at Pretty Big Deal is doing something meaningful in their industry and trying to create shifts and ripples, which is incredible.
1:02:16
And that to me is is most important and I always love to celebrate other women. Yeah.
1:02:20
And I love the name, too. Thank you.
1:02:22
You know, Justin came up with the name. Ah.
1:02:25
Yeah, he said we've always been called pretty for a big girl and you're my pretty big deal, so why don't you just say pretty big deal? I love it. It's such a great name. There you go.
1:02:31
On top of being consistent and everything else. I know.
1:02:36
He just comes up with names.
1:02:37
Sounds like the dream man. Yeah, he really does. He really does.
1:02:40
I can't wait to meet him. But no, awesome.
1:02:41
Thank you so much for being here.
1:02:44
We're going to go to final five. Okay, okay, here we go. Here we go. Question one.
1:02:47
What is something people would be surprised to find out that you do? Uh, every day? Oh gosh. Um, gosh, I don't know. Every day? Or anything. Okay.
1:02:58
Something that I love to do is aerial yoga. Mm.
1:03:01
Like you hang with the rope with the ribbons. Oh. it. Oh, wow. Okay. it.
1:03:08
When did you start doing that?
1:03:08
Uh, probably a couple years ago. Oh, cool. I've never tried it.
1:03:12
It looks Oh, it like releases your back. It opens your sciatic.
1:03:15
It's like it's really strengthening for your upper body. really hard to do.
1:03:19
It's so hard, but it's so much fun.
1:03:19
For a second, I was like, are you going to say, "No, it's so easy."
1:03:23
And I was like No, it's not easy. Please.
1:03:24
That's why I've avoided it.
1:03:28
Uh, climbing up the ropes. Awesome.
1:03:30
Second question, what's the first thing you do when you wake up?
1:03:31
Um, definitely press the snooze button. I I like Interesting. No shame in my game. I don't care.
1:03:38
Like, but I love to wake up early because I'm all about having that moment to those moments to myself.
1:03:42
So, yeah, I'll press snooze. Maybe twice.
1:03:46
But that's okay because that's something that you know about me. 4:00 a. m. , right? Like Yeah. Uh-huh. 4:00 a. m.
1:03:55
Uh, question number three, if I stole your phone, whose phone number would I want to steal the most?
1:03:59
Oh, well, do you have Ellen DeGeneres's number? I do. OH, YOU DO? I LOVE IT. I LOVE IT. OH, GOD, I DON'T KNOW. WHO KNOWS?
1:04:09
I think my contacts are pretty boring. Justin, probably Justin. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. Yeah, I like Justin.
1:04:16
Okay, number four, what do you consider your greatest accomplishment? Oh, man.
1:04:22
I always am so humbled when people come up to me and say, like, "You gave me the opportunity to to tell my story, to speak my truth, to to get into a swimming suit for the first time."
1:04:32
It's just like, those stories that they say because I told my story, I'm like, "Are you serious?"
1:04:39
Like, it still shocks me to my core that that that's something that has that is changed someone else's life.
1:04:45
And to me, greatest accomplishment.
1:04:48
Doesn't matter what covers, doesn't matter what anything else, no awards, nothing.
1:04:51
Like, it is those people. I love it.
1:04:54
And fifth and final question, what's your favorite prayer, meditation, mantra that you repeat every day to yourself?
1:05:02
Um, so I don't do mantras and like, I have my I have my affirmations, but for me, what I do is I have music, uh music.
1:05:11
And I sing a lot of like old gospel songs um or I love Fred Hammond.
1:05:15
And um and I'll sing out loud to myself with myself and I'll praise God all morning.
1:05:23
And I just it makes me just so happy.
1:05:26
So, that's that's something that I like to do. That's awesome. Thank you, Ashley. How amazing was that?
1:05:29
Everyone who's been listening or watching, I feel that Ashley said so many incredible insights today.
1:05:35
Make sure that you screenshot them, type them in, share them on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube.
1:05:40
Tag both of us cuz we'd love to see what you've learned and gained and grown from in this episode.
1:05:44
There were countless messages that I was taking mental notes of.
1:05:48
And I really really hope that you find them as well.
1:05:50
Make sure you go and follow Ashley across social media.
1:05:54
It's Ashley Graham on absolutely every platform that you can possibly find. That's right.
1:05:58
Make sure you look out for Fearless and season 2 of Pretty Big Deal as well.
1:06:03
And Ashley, again, thank you so much for having me on this.
1:06:05
I'm so happy and grateful and excited for my audience to hear this. Really excited.
1:06:08
I can't wait for you to come on Pretty Big Deal.
1:06:11
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.
1:06:13
I'm really looking forward to it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
1:06:14
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
1:06:19
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
1:06:29
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