0:00
So, we're about to see the return of Google Glass.
Search this video
0:01
Is that what you're saying?
0:03
I >> I think we learned a lot through through the past.
0:05
One of the things we learned, again, obvious in retrospect, is like they've got to be glasses that you really want to wear first and foremost, you know, like as it turns out, >> as it turns out.
0:21
>> Welcome to Access, part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
0:23
Alex Heath here with Ellis Hamburger as always.
0:26
Today we've got Samir Samat, the king of Android at Google on the show.
0:32
But first, Ellis, how's it going, >> Alex?
0:36
I'm afraid I've been a bad boy. >> Really?
0:39
>> I don't know if you could hear it in my voice, but I was in hooligan mode at the Michigan game this past weekend. >> Hooligan mode.
0:47
>> And I forgot that I'm a podcaster now, and I was yelling way too loudly, and my voice was actually gone >> yesterday, and I almost caused a legitimate problem. >> Wow.
0:57
Uh, so fortunately I'm I'm okay now.
1:00
>> What kind of tea are we working with to get the recovery that I'm hearing?
1:03
You've got some >> throat maybe throw >> and whatever the little pharmacy has here in Little Tokyo. I can't read the label. I think it's eucalyptus. >> Um, yeah.
1:14
Hopefully my voice isn't too grading.
1:16
I feel like I can I get voice insurance? >> I'm sure that exists.
1:19
I was thinking of uh David Duknney in in Zoolander where he's got that glass bulb over his hand because he was a hand model. >> I don't know. I apologize though. I was being stupid. >> That's okay. I'm not a sports guy.
1:32
Is Michigan good this year?
1:35
>> Uh depends who you ask.
1:35
But most importantly, they now serve beer at the stadium. >> That's new. >> It is. >> What?
1:44
>> NCAA's cashing in, baby. >> Wow.
1:47
>> You can pay the players now.
1:47
You can get overpriced beer at the stadium.
1:50
I just like the idea that it's like, you know, it's not like the cashiers at the stadium when they're trying to get through a line of 100 people or the best ID checkers, but the beers are priced prohibitively expensively, so the students can't afford it anyway.
2:07
That's called product design. >> Yes.
2:09
Well, I'm glad you had a good weekend, even though uh it sounds like we almost didn't have a pod this week.
2:15
Uh so that's that's good. Uh I had a good weekend.
2:17
is actually my 11 Labs voice clone right now operating at 120 frames per second. You wouldn't even know.
2:25
>> We should try to experiment with that.
2:27
See if we can just do a an AI plot of oursel.
2:30
Think about the volume, the leverage we would have on the podcast ecosystem through AI.
2:35
>> I mean, I I bet you Risa's got some insights from >> I'm sure she does.
2:40
>> She knows some people for sure.
2:40
we ever if we ever find ourselves in a really tough spot, >> I think she could she could help us. >> She's got us.
2:48
Well, I'm glad you had a good weekend.
2:49
Uh yeah, we went to Joshua Tree this weekend.
2:51
Uh saw Lom, fantastic instrumental band.
2:55
It was a concert weekend and then came back to LA and saw No Worries uh in Hollywood, which was really awesome.
3:04
Anderson Pack and Knowledge, uh and was really fun.
3:05
So yeah, it was a it was an unusually eventful weekend, but good to be back in the content minds with you.
3:14
>> Did you use any new tech this weekend, Alex?
3:17
>> No, actually I kind of went back to basics, you know, just looked up at the sun.
3:21
>> You've been a bad boy, too. >> No comment.
3:26
Uh but uh yeah, before we get into this chat with Samir, uh some news dropped that is very much in both of our worlds.
3:33
um me on the Sam Alman, you know, push notification alert and you and the browser world uh that we should touch on before we before we get into this interview. What just happened?
3:41
I mean, it was literally right when we started recording. >> Yeah.
3:44
Uh I think they have started to learn when we record and started doing product drops during our recordings. Thanks, Sam. >> Thanks.
3:54
>> Uh they have announced Atlas, their new browser, long anticipated.
3:59
It looks a lot like Dia uh from the browser company, my former employer, starting to look like >> they did the right thing by selling to Atlassian. I mean, we'll see.
4:12
There there's an incredible team over there.
4:13
And they've also built a lot of tools for DIA that allow them to iterate very quickly on the UI that I think are going to be harder for uh Proplexity and OpenAI to copy, you know, with their interfaces that look more like straight Chrome rappers.
4:31
>> But uh they certainly have a lot more distribution at OpenAI for the concept of a new browser, I would say. >> Yeah.
4:37
Although it's a new app, Mac only for now.
4:39
It's seems like it's gated to one of the pro tiers.
4:41
They'll be doing Windows, web, mobile in the coming months.
4:46
They got to get those GPUs lit up.
4:48
Uh but yeah, what was your takeaway from this?
4:51
I mean, it seems like chat GPT sitting on the side of your browser, which is kind of what is becoming the new standard.
4:58
It's like, you know, comet Perplexity's browser does that.
4:59
DIA, like you mentioned, this seems to be the new interface.
5:04
Yeah, I think um for a while a lot of people thought that AI was going to primarily just be a sidebar for you to help you get answers to your questions about what website you're on, but I think it's been proven that that just like wasn't really enough, you know, like is I hate copying and pasting things into chat GPT really a relatable problem statement?
5:28
I think I've I've been believing more and more that the agenic piece is really where it's all going to be at, especially since the browser is where you're clicking all day.
5:37
And so, one of the things they seem to have done is brought operator into the mix and you could say, "Hey, uh, add my usual beach uh, grocery cart to my Instacart and then just let me oneclick buy it." I think that's in there.
5:51
We've also seen that a little bit from Perplexity uh, with Comet.
5:54
We've seen it from strawberry browser uh company I worked with that launched the other day.
6:01
>> Strawberry >> has little >> They're doing companies with fruit names now. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. >> Wow.
6:07
>> They were named after the uh you know how AI couldn't count the Rs and Strawberry for a while.
6:11
>> Ah that's a good that's good. >> Yeah.
6:13
They have an interesting take.
6:13
I mean everybody's battling for like what's the right way to introduce this to people.
6:18
Their approach is like they have little companions based on use case that you could ask questions to.
6:22
But I mean, I really do believe that, you know, with the 800 million users, chat, GPT does have a pretty big advantage here, especially if they're bringing your existing memory into the new browser right off the bat, right?
6:34
Like that's a pretty big >> That to me is the biggest thing is that your browsing habits in the browser and Atlas build off your chat GPT memory and vice versa.
6:46
vice versa. That to me seems to be the wedge, the moat, the whatever tech speak word you want to use that openai is really building towards which is this profile of you that knows you better than any other company and they still have work to do like I would say you
7:01
know our guest today like Google has probably more data still because they have Gmail calendar all these things uh but OpenAI is very quickly speedrunning getting there as well with its own like full-fledged you know app for anything you do uh with the internet approach that it's taking. And to me, the real
7:19
And to me, the real interesting thing is that memory piece you mentioned and being able to bring your chatbt context into your browser and vice versa.
7:28
That to me seems like if they can get that done at scale, um there is going to be very it's going to be very hard for anyone else to uh win the chatbot war, so to speak.
7:38
Yeah, I think with all the folks I talk to every day in AI, there's definitely this agreement that whoever has the most context may win simply because you have the best onboarding experience.
7:51
>> We all know onboarding for new products is very difficult, especially when you have to learn something new or as you have become the self-professed dog that is old and doesn't want to learn new tricks.
8:02
I mean, I don't know if Chrome gets a button that says, "Let Gemini see my entire web history for the last 15 years," and it starts proactively recommending the next concert that you want to go to >> or the next purple shirt you want to buy.
8:17
I mean, that's going to be very, very powerful.
8:21
>> Because they on one hand do have a lot more context than even OpenAI has, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, they should.
8:27
>> Are they using it yet? >> I don't think so.
8:29
I mean, I have Gemini now in the corner of my Chrome window here, and it can do some stuff, but it's kind of limited.
8:34
I think they're they probably have all this regulatory red tape that these that OpenAI doesn't have or doesn't care about.
8:40
Uh, and they just can't move as fast because, you know, it's it's a massive company.
8:43
But you're right, that would be the move is just backlog all of the data that Google already has and use it to supercharge my Gemini.
8:53
And that alone would probably make Gemini more personalized on day one, just going back in time, not even needing to continue building data. >> Yeah.
9:01
And uh I think Samir uh alludes to some of that as well with the personalization.
9:09
>> I mean, most people don't know what to ask AI for. >> Yeah.
9:13
>> I think the next round of products and updates are going to be a lot more proactive, >> just doing doing things for you.
9:19
Um, not even like tasks, but like recommending things that you hadn't even thought of searching yet, >> things you wouldn't know you could ask.
9:28
>> Uh, I I mean, as a user, I'm I'm pretty excited for that, honestly. >> No.
9:32
Yeah, that's that's what you want.
9:33
You don't want to just have to think of how to prompt everything anymore.
9:35
It feels feels uh feels annoying.
9:36
Yeah, >> it it's going to be a challenge to fine-tune that, though, especially if you're a company that's trying to take a little chunk of everything.
9:45
Like, we get into a little bit Google Shopping with Samir.
9:48
I mean, Gemini is in a place where I could say, Alice, uh, we we we are very confident that you have a 2-year-old and a four-year-old and have searched for children's books 18 times in the last few years.
10:00
Here's a new one that came out that's just getting good reviews.
10:03
But I have a lot of interests.
10:06
Are they prompting me five times a day, 10 times a day, once a week?
10:08
It is going to be very, very relevant.
10:12
I think as we've seen with things like Instagram ads, how relevant they can be.
10:16
But what's the load that's going to feel acceptable for this proactive AI recommendations?
10:22
I think that might be one of the big questions of the next 5 years. >> Yeah.
10:26
Well, we should start getting this convo with Samir. Uh he's a Google ogier.
10:32
He's been there for like 17 years.
10:34
He's currently the president of Android ecosystem, which we demystify.
10:40
And Google had an announcement this week in the XR uh headset space.
10:42
and we kind of start talking about glasses and where all this is headed after phones.
10:48
Really fun convo, a googly convo.
10:51
Uh, and I really enjoyed it.
10:55
>> Let's kick it to Samir.
10:58
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12:19
>> All right, Samir, welcome to the show.
12:21
You have been at Google for a long time and we got a lot to talk about.
12:23
You have your hands on a lot of things at Google, but first I heard there's a pretty fun story about when you joined Google and how you joined Google.
12:32
Can you can you take us back?
12:34
This was what, like 2008? >> Yeah.
12:37
Uh I I joined Google in 2008.
12:37
But um the story I think predates that actually.
12:45
Uh and first of all before we get into that uh if I could just >> nice to see you guys.
12:51
Congratulations by the way on the pod. Uh I think it's great.
12:55
I've enjoyed every episode.
12:55
Um yeah my my story of getting to Google is a little bit roundabout.
12:59
Um and so I I I started a company in college.
13:02
Um I went to University of California San Diego.
13:06
Um and I started um a company while I was still in college there and it actually started going really well um like way better than we expected.
13:13
So the initial idea was we built a search engine for source code uh back when that was like a novel thing to do.
13:20
Um so you could like find code that you could reuse and that kind of thing.
13:23
And um and we launched it.
13:26
Um I think I was like a sophomore or junior in college. I don't really remember.
13:30
Um but I know I wasn't going to class anymore.
13:32
I know that I was going to midterms and finals. That was like about it.
13:35
Um and so we launched that and then it started doing really well actually and we had this bigger idea that we were really excited about using the technology that we used to build that but for other problems and it's kind of to like arm people with that technology.
13:49
And so I was discussing this with my co-founders and they were like oh yeah that sounds like a great bigger idea but like we're trying to finish like our grad school applications.
13:58
I was like what are you talking about?
14:00
Like we have this company running this company.
14:02
It's going well, like way better than we ever thought.
14:06
And you guys are leaving to go to grad school. Um, and we had >> Yeah.
14:10
So, we had this fight >> and in particular, me and this my one of my other co-founders had this fight.
14:17
We're still really good friends today, but uh we had this fight and so I was really like kind of demoralized.
14:20
I didn't really know what to do.
14:21
So, I emailed in the middle of the night, like it was like 3:00 a. m.
14:25
in the morning, sergey google. com.
14:26
Um, and I did not know Sergey.
14:30
Um and this is like 99 I think uh maybe 2000.
14:33
Um did not know Sergey but we were in the information retrieval space.
14:38
He obviously was like very big in the space like we you know he was like kind of famous in the information retrieval space.
14:44
We were just undergrads doing you know this random thing.
14:48
But um so we kind of looked up to him even though he had no idea who we were you know and uh I emailed him and um I didn't really expect to get a response like I I just it's kind of like a desperation move like and I asked him I was like hey I'm sure you faced this problem um of like what would you do uh what like your co-founders want to go to grad school like what's the value of that versus other things.
15:08
I got a response back at like 3:01 a. m.
15:11
Um it's like I know this problem well um why don't you come see me?
15:17
Um, so I got on a plane the next morning and went up and saw him and I spent most of the day with Sergey. Um, and he talked to me.
15:25
I did my first Sergey product review because he's like, "Show me your product."
15:29
You know, and we went through it.
15:31
He's like, "This part's terrible.
15:32
This part's kind of okay.
15:32
You really need to do better here."
15:34
You know, and so, uh, so it was kind of kind of a good experience.
15:38
I think he was right about all the product feedback, by the way.
15:40
Um, and then and he and he said like, "Can you just wait here for a minute?"
15:44
And, uh, okay, I'll wait here.
15:47
And then one engineer after another came in the room and like gave me the Google interview and and so at the end of that he came back and he's like hey so I was thinking like maybe you should come work at Google.
15:58
Um and I was like Sergey I'm like flattered like I'm actually like I don't even know what to say.
16:04
like I'm really impressed that um you like you would spend time with me and like you would invite me to join your company, but like I have this idea and like I want to really go do it and I I just I don't know if I can do that right now, you know?
16:19
Um and and he like kind of paused and he's like, you know what, I really respect that.
16:22
Um but if you're going to do it, please can you do it right?
16:26
Like you need to raise some money.
16:28
You need to get your bigger idea out there.
16:29
out there. like he gave me a bunch of advice and then he introduced me to our first the first people that invested actually they ended up investing um and so he didn't need to do any of that and that was awesome um and so we ran our company uh which actually today would be
16:44
called AI like we call it like AI in the cloud back then those words were not really didn't really talk about it that way it was machine learning as a service or something like that >> yeah exactly and um and so you know we did fine we the company was acquired
16:59
started by a public company a few years later and long story short after working for them for a while um I was going to start another company as I moved up to the bay with my wife and um uh somebody convinced me like you got to just talk to the Google folks like just come by
17:14
and chat with them um and that in of itself is a funny story was at Google with Sundar um and uh and when I did decide to join um Sergey like came by and said hey I knew you'd figure it out eventually well you know welcome Wait, so so many questions there. A, was
17:30
A, was Sergey wearing shoes when you first met him?
17:34
>> Oh, >> I was going to ask the same thing, Alex.
17:36
I was going to ask the exact same thing.
17:37
>> This is why we're co-hosts. >> Really? Okay.
17:39
Um, that's a good question.
17:40
I don't know um if he was wearing shoes.
17:42
Uh, I have in my mind that he was wearing Crocs, but that could be hallucination.
17:50
>> And also, so give people a sense for people who don't remember this time. This was like 1999.
17:53
What phase was Google in?
17:55
This was this was preipo.
17:57
This is definitely preipo.
17:57
This is like um they were in their first building, so it wasn't like a huge company.
18:06
I remember cuz Sergey and I went out and took a walk and we like walked around the building.
18:10
It wasn't like we walked around, you know, the Google campus.
18:14
Um and uh so it's very small.
18:17
Um you know, and and I feel like um I feel like it was may have been pre-revenue also.
18:23
Uh I think I don't think they launched ads yet.
18:26
think they launched ads yet. I think >> um and but they but it was definitely at a moment where everyone was realizing that this was special, you know, like it was it was definitely like, you know, it used to be like a skill where you knew
18:41
you had to use like Alta Vista and Excite and Northern Light and all these different things and you use them for different things and like people thought you were like, "Oh yeah, like how come you always figure out this stuff on the internet or whatever?" And it's like, oh
18:53
And it's like, oh yeah, cuz I kind of good at using search engines.
18:56
And then Google showed up.
18:56
And it was just like, you just have to use that, you know?
18:59
Um, so it was definitely at that moment where people were like realizing that. Yeah.
19:03
Ellis and I we we appreciate the the hutb of cold reach out, right?
19:08
That's as media folks like we've done many of those.
19:10
But where do you get the uh the fortitude to cold email the co-founder of Google at 3 in the morning? >> Yeah.
19:19
Um, this goes back to like I think the the amazing the amazing superpowers you get when you know nothing.
19:28
It's so interesting to me when especially I think it correlates with younger people, but I think there's still older folks that that probably have that are fearless in this way, you know, and there's fearlessness because you're just fearless.
19:43
But but my I was not fearless in that way.
19:45
I was fearless because I didn't know anything, you know, like I I mean we did so many we made so many mistakes in our startup like oh my god I can't even I look back at some of it and I was just like we were so stupid.
19:58
Um but we learned a ton and we didn't know any better.
20:01
So you just go build things and do things.
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22:20
So, so talk about a little bit how you got to where you are now.
22:21
So, you were there for a lot.
22:23
I'm sure you did a lot over the years.
22:25
You're now the president of Android ecosystem.
22:30
Uh, are you the only president at Google? Is that a common title?
22:33
>> Uh, that's a good question.
22:36
I never thought about that.
22:38
>> I think you might be the only one. >> I might be.
22:40
>> So, this is like weird Google jargon, right?
22:42
There's like SVPs and all these things, but like uh Google is also like I think of Google as like a constellation of companies within a company.
22:50
Google has I forget how many you'll know how many products Google has that have over a billion users. Is it five, six, seven?
22:57
>> I think it's more than that. Um >> Okay. More than that.
22:59
So it's like and you you run at least one of them, Android. >> I run two.
23:03
Well, the the the thing that I just got told recently is that I that um you know, Android and Google Play are two of our two billion plus user products.
23:13
Um which >> two billion club. >> Yeah.
23:15
So, there's a two billion club now apparently. >> Okay, cool.
23:18
So, how do you go from starting when you did in '08 to running what I assume now is like thousands and thousands of people and and these massive products?
23:28
Was that just a natural thing that happened or >> That's a great question. How did that happen?
23:34
Um, I work on I've worked on a number of different businesses at Google.
23:37
You know, I actually started in the search team working on a little project called Google Health.
23:41
Um, which this is before like Obamacare and before we had smartphones, so you didn't have like Fitbit or digital health records or anything.
23:50
So, it was before its time.
23:52
Let's is what I'm trying to say.
23:52
And um, I think I made a decision with some other folks at Google like very early in me getting there in like the first six or seven months that like this wasn't going to work. Like we're too early.
24:01
we need to shut this down and maybe come back to it another time.
24:05
And you know, and that was really scary because I just joined this company.
24:09
Um, but I said, you know, this is the right product decision.
24:12
And then Marissa said, you know, like, would you would you be interested in working on this thing that we we we're having some trouble finding people to work on, which is called product search.
24:20
Um, which is like when you type in a search into Google for product related stuff.
24:24
Um, would that be interesting?
24:27
And and I was like, yeah, seems kind of important.
24:30
Um and uh and so I I worked on that.
24:34
We built we built the product search team.
24:36
There were like I don't know 10 or 15 of us.
24:38
Um and we built that team.
24:41
It became kind of a big business for Google.
24:43
It's not it's called Google Shopping now.
24:44
Um we also built the travel business.
24:46
Um so flight search, hotel search, that was really uh amazing.
24:51
And um I actually left Google for a year um at a certain point.
24:54
And I came back when Sundar became CEO.
24:57
um he called me and said, you know, hey, I don't know if you saw the news, but I'm the CEO.
25:05
I was like, yeah, yeah, some I saw the news.
25:10
That's kind of how he is.
25:10
And um and and he said, you know, we could use some help on play in Android.
25:15
Would you would you be interested in in coming back?
25:17
And I thought to myself, like I don't you don't really get that call from somebody like Sundar very often in life.
25:23
So it just seemed kind of obvious to me.
25:25
And he was my first interviewer.
25:26
I've been close to Sundar for a while.
25:28
So, um, it was great to be able to go back and work around him.
25:33
>> Going back to, uh, shopping and flights, which I've used a lot over the years.
25:39
Um, how did it feel that moment when, uh, OpenAI announced that the other day?
25:44
I feel like that was pretty heavily inspired by the work y'all y'all did in the old days, a decade later. >> Yeah.
25:50
But, you know, I think um, they're doing great work.
25:52
I think they're it'll be really interesting to see where that goes.
25:55
Um, I'm I'm proud of the work we did we did on on those products.
25:57
did we did on on those products. I mean, my one of my one of my favorite things that the shopping team is doing now is, you know, we at one point we had this really cool feature in shopping where um we actually built this warehouse where um we would go to people who were
26:13
listing their products in Google Shopping and we'd ask them to send us their product and we had built these 3D cameras that would like whiz around your product and take a 3D model of like the shoe or the dress or the whatever and then we'd like >> the most Google thing I've ever heard. >> Yeah. And so and so by the way, one of >> Yeah.
26:26
And so and so by the way, one of the biggest problems was what do you do with the product once you're done with it?
26:31
Because we were like, we'll just send it back.
26:32
And the interesting thing that I learned was like the manufacturers are like, I don't want that back.
26:36
Like that was like like I'm not it's not worth it for me to like you send it and you send it back and I put the shoe back in the box and sell it.
26:44
And so we had this like warehouse of stuff piling up and we're like where where do what do we do, you know, um with the stuff.
26:50
So that was interesting side effect of that.
26:51
But like we were doing that, one of the interesting things the shopping team is doing now with all the Genai stuff is they're able to just generate those 3D views on like almost anything.
27:01
Um, and you can even do like try on, you know, you can you can take a picture of yourself and that blazer or whatever that you're interested in and see what it looks like on you.
27:11
Um, and so I just think it's like an awesome time for that for that team.
27:15
um they're just doing so much cool stuff and it's kind of obvious that you know shopping is a real area that'll benefit from all this new technology.
27:20
So it doesn't surprise me others are doing it too.
27:24
>> I think it's an interesting space because you guys were to some extent ahead of the game with kind of jumping in the middle using all of Google's powers to help you comparison shop or find the right product whether it was a flight or a shoe or a shirt or something like that.
27:40
What's your take on where companies are going to be okay with that?
27:44
uh in the age of AI or even agentic AI uh do they want to put all their products inside the engine or do they want you to come to their site instead? Is it worth it for them?
27:55
>> Yeah, it's a great question.
27:55
I mean, I think this incentive question is a is a really big one in the shopping space for a long time.
28:00
You know, I think it's been one that retailers and merchants have really wrestled with over time.
28:05
I mean, it's not new as a as a problem they're wrestling with, right?
28:08
If you thought about if you're a retailer there that you you started dealing with this problem even before online, you know, like you were trying to figure out which channels, you know, do you only have your own stores or do you put your products in other people's stores, you know, and that that's like the beginning of that question, you know, um and it's like, well, we can't totally afford to have all our own stores everywhere.
28:27
So, I guess we have to use these other retail stores.
28:30
It's like, okay, what's our experience going to be?
28:31
How are we going to be represented?
28:33
Who's going to be next to us?
28:35
be next to us? you know um so it starts there in the online version of that I think the biggest question from long ago it was Amazon you know it's like when they started their third party marketplace which like a genius move you know um and it's like do you want to be in that what I would call what a retailer I think would call like a normalized unbranded experience you know like it's not it's not your brand it's
28:59
not your store it's the it's like it's Amazon's site and you're you get to exist in it right and I think that's a really tough choice, you know, because um uh and I think it it breaks down on like lines of like what you think your long-term competitive advantage is, you know, if you're if you're like, look, like we we think our brand is like super critical and a direct relationship is is is absolutely key. like you've got to,
29:20
like you've got to, you know, have the person interfacing with you and only you.
29:24
You know, that's why you don't see a lot of high-end fashion brands that get put in that normalized experience because they're like, "Well, that just compresses our brand down to just the skew."
29:32
And we're so much more than that.
29:35
We're like the way you feel when you when you engage with us.
29:38
You're it's like the, you know, the the the way that it makes you think about yourself relative to other people.
29:45
You know, there's there's always a soundtrack when you go to these high-end stores, you know, like it's interesting like I think that soundtrack is like playing in the background.
29:52
Like literally like I think it's like carefully engineered to make you feel in a certain way, you know, like Amazon's not going to start playing a soundtrack for you when you're shopping for, you know, >> I still have tonitis uh ringing in the ears from my early days at Abberrombi and Fitch and Hollister.
30:06
So I know I know what you >> the smell too. I remember the smell. >> Yeah.
30:10
>> Yeah. there's like there's like all these details you know and so I think it's the same question but propelled into the modern you know like genai world it's like you know what what is that trade what what is my experience going to be how much of it do I own how
30:25
much of it is reduced down to the least common denominator and um and and and am I you know the word disintermediation right is always the word that I hear retailers bring up is like am I disintermediated is it like am I going to be substituted by something else at the last in the shopping cart, you know. Um, is it is it a cart that that is just
30:42
Um, is it is it a cart that that is just me or is it a cart?
30:46
And, you know, I think like some people have tried to find a middle ground of this.
30:49
Like I don't know if you if you've used Instacart, um, but you know, Instacart is like it's like a marketplace but it's it's got individual stores you shop at, right?
30:59
And I actually think they have limits on like you can't do a cross store cart, you know?
31:04
And so all of this is speaking the to the retailer of like should I purchase hole in the spaceime continuum if you did a >> cross.
31:12
I mean you'd be surprised like how sensitive you know retailers are about this cuz you know they worry like they're spending all this money building their brand building their store building their products and then like they want to make sure that it's represented in the right way.
31:24
So I I think all this factors in um and I think you're going to see those things play out again with the all the geni stuff.
31:33
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32:06
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33:46
Samir, I don't know if you know this, but an enduring question in the tech industry is what is Google's strategy with the Pixel?
33:53
I think everyone understands Android. It's everywhere.
33:57
Uh, it's the biggest operating system in the world.
33:59
I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.
34:00
But, you know, the Pixel, you guys are doing some interesting things.
34:04
I mean, the new phones are are good.
34:06
I've I've got the the the Pro Tfold. >> Do you like it?
34:10
Is it Do you like the Do you like the fold? >> I like it. I do like it. I like the big screen.
34:13
Um the This is I'm going to get into this.
34:17
Like the issue for me is not the hardware actually at all.
34:18
Um, but it's it's this like you can't teach an old dog new tricks, which is this like perennial problem I think you guys have with trying to get like decade plus iOS users to switch, which I want to get into.
34:31
But first, just like on the Pixel, um, you guys just signed, I think, Alex Cooper as an ambassador.
34:37
You had that flashy event in New York recently.
34:39
It seems like you're making a very concerted play for the premium market in the US and you're really trying to win in the US.
34:47
But I think a like I was saying an enduring question is what is the goal of the Pixel?
34:51
Because is it is it to actually compete with Apple in the premium market?
34:54
Is it just to have a horse in the race to experiment to show OEMs what can be done with Android at its best where it kind of can actually work closely with the hardware stack?
35:03
Um so I'd love to hear from you like what is the goal of Pixel?
35:08
Are you all trying to be the dominant uh handset manufacturer as well as OS provider?
35:16
>> Yeah, that's a good question.
35:16
Um, I'm glad you're enjoying your your Pixel Fold.
35:19
I I I like it a lot, too.
35:19
Um, I use my laptop a lot less when I have the Fold.
35:23
Um, I just feel like I can I can get a lot done on it um that way.
35:25
Um, but you know, your question about Pixel is is is a good one.
35:30
Um, you know, uh, taking a quick step back, you know, Android is an open operating system as as I think many of your listeners know and there's we have a lot of partners.
35:38
So, you know, my my job and my role is like we work with all of our partners, you know, and >> we just had Carl pay from nothing on the show last week.
35:45
Carl's doing super interesting stuff.
35:46
I think um I listened to your talk with Carl and what I love about um what Carl is doing is it's like exactly the vision that we have for Android, you know, where there are different players with different perspectives building alternatives to um for consumers to choose. Like that's awesome.
36:04
And I think he even says a lot like he's focused on particular audience like Gen Z and what have you.
36:09
And like that is so perfect from an Android vision standpoint.
36:12
It's like, okay, you're actually going to build an OEM that goes after this segment and you're going to do kind of, you know, like I have I have well, first of all, you don't see my desk, but I have like one of everything on my desk.
36:23
Like I have one of his phones here, you know, and um I think that's really cool.
36:26
It's like really different and I think it's it it it's great.
36:30
And so from an Android perspective, there is many different ways to to build great stuff.
36:37
And when you talk about Pixel, I think Pixel is like Google's take on a phone um and a and a phone ecosystem.
36:46
And when when I say that, it's like it's not to diminish anything that a partner is doing.
36:50
Like, you know, like Samsung's doing, what what uh OnePlus is doing, what nothing's doing, like these are all different takes on how computing should work.
36:58
And Google as a company that first and foremost I think is is a lot about computing also I think wants to have an a a way of expressing its view of what an awesome computing experience would be.
37:11
And one thing that's great about that innovation is it it can set a standard you know it can raise the bar for for the whole industry on the Android side but but also beyond that.
37:21
I mean my great my example of this that I love is the is computational photography.
37:26
you know, even before Pixel um had its new ID, you know, we've had this ID change with the with like, you know, the the visor and and and all that, like Pixel, I think, was recognized as having the best camera.
37:40
Um, and a lot of that was not the optics.
37:43
A lot of that was the software, you know, the the computational photography.
37:46
And so, it we like I think we Google demonstrated that you can have amazing photography um on these smartphones.
37:53
And what that did is like a lot of people started copying them.
37:56
You know, it kind of set a new standard.
37:57
And before that, I think the general impression was that the iPhone was better at photos and that Android phones were not very good at photos.
38:04
And I think Pixel changed that.
38:06
And then other Android OEMs figured out how to do a better job of that.
38:10
And I think we've begun to change that impression.
38:12
Um, certainly in other parts of the world, in the US, I think people are are are still realizing, you know, how how much better your photos can be.
38:20
But I think it was like we want to do something different.
38:23
We want to reach new audience.
38:24
We want to reach the iPhone user.
38:26
Um we want them to understand that there are other alternatives out there that are that are built and speak to their to their needs.
38:31
And um and if you look at where Pixel what Pixel has achieved in Japan um you know just as an example I I and this kind of speaks to your next question of old dogs and new tricks which I think I know where you're going.
38:44
You know if you're an iPhone user can you really switch?
38:46
And actually we've taken pretty meaningful share in Japan.
38:49
um you know of of uh of of iPhone user uh back over to to Android/Pixel um and I think that's just like good product, good marketing um bringing down Walt Gardens, you know, um and and getting getting it right at retail.
39:06
And so I do think it can be done. It's hard.
39:10
There are still a lot of remaining challenges that need to be busted through.
39:15
Um not all of them are technology uh lock challenges.
39:17
Some of them are are, you know, walled garden challenges, but um but all of that are uh are things I think that are possible over time. >> Yeah.
39:27
I mean, using the Fold was a great uh example of this for me cuz the hardware is great.
39:31
I mean, there's that tiny little crease, which I know you guys will get rid of in the Fold, but you can't really notice it most of the time.
39:37
I do like the bigger screen.
39:37
The hardware around these phones feels like it's rapidly commodifying.
39:40
They all start to look the same.
39:42
Similar weight, screen quality, camera quality.
39:44
What's really different now is the software.
39:48
And I'm really interested by all the Gemini integrations and AI stuff that Android is doing and it does feel like you guys are ahead of the curve there from Apple because you have, you know, the Gemini stack which is very good.
39:57
Um, but man, yeah, it's just this like mental block of like it's going to take me over an hour at least to just like learn this thing because I've been so on iOS for so long.
40:11
I just know it reflexively.
40:15
Um, and I feel like that barrier of just like, yeah, I think it's cool, but I just I either don't have time or the will to learn it is maybe a harder barrier for you guys to break than anything else.
40:27
>> Yeah, it's really interesting.
40:27
Do you feel like it's it's the learning curve part or did you miss certain things more like AirDrop and the Green Bubble, Blue Bubble thing and all that? >> To be honest, no.
40:36
I think a lot of that stuff is you guys have parody with a lot of that stuff.
40:40
I mean, there is Apple ecosystem stuff with the Mac and all that and continuity. That's nice.
40:44
But um I don't really feel it's that.
40:47
I just for me it's just like it's old dog new tricks, man.
40:51
It's like I've been I've been on OS for so long.
40:53
And Ellis, I don't know if you sympathize with this, but like the idea of learning a new operating system is just like yeah, if I have a whole Saturday afternoon one day, I'll do that.
41:02
But I it's it's just a very high bar.
41:04
It has to be something very cool and very new and very different for me to want to do that.
41:10
Well, I do think I do I do think one thing is like what I will agree with is the last thing you said, which is like I I do think that um like Apple does a good like I don't think iPhones have changed that much over the last few years, but I do think Apple makes a good product, you know, and so you have to you have to give them their their credit for that.
41:26
And I don't think there's a ton of people who are sitting there saying, you know, I hate this phone, you know.
41:33
I think there's a lot of folks that are that are like, I'm bored, you know, like I want more, you know, like I think there's more out there, like, you know, and so I do think you have to innovate and you have to build really cool stuff that people understand, feel like addresses a real need.
41:47
Um, I can give you one small example of that.
41:50
By the way, we we launched this thing called Circle to Search uh last year with the Galaxy S25 and Pixel uh S24 and Pixel, sorry.
41:59
And um you know it's just like really simple concept in retrospect but it's like you you long press the the the home button on your Android phone and then you can circle like with your finger any object or any image that's on the screen.
42:14
You could be using whatever app you want.
42:15
You know it's and and you bring Google multimodal search to that thing that you've circled, right?
42:21
So you can like circle the picture of the bow tie just to continue that, you know, on on the on this person that's wearing it or or the watch or you can circle the waterfall on the picture and say, you know, where is that and you know and you can and you get this like really cool search experience.
42:36
So we launched that and you know I was talking with a very big retailer in the US and their chief merchant and um he was telling me like you know it was such a it's such a cool feature.
42:48
It's there's obviously a ton of technology behind that like a ton of AI and multimodal capabilities.
42:51
You all did a good job of marketing it and that you didn't talk about those things like you didn't like geek out in the marketing.
43:00
You just said like here's how this is useful to you on a daily basis.
43:03
Like you're shopping, you're you're trying to you want to plan a trip, you want to do this, you want to do that.
43:08
Like here's how it's super useful. People got it instantly.
43:11
and he said, "I have to tell you, I have people coming into my store asking for the phone that has circle to search."
43:17
Um, and I was like, "Okay, that's like really cool."
43:19
And I think it's like when you get those pieces right, I have so many thoughts on this, by the way, of like how to build products with AI and how to market them effectively, you know.
43:29
effectively, you know. Um uh but I think when you get that right I I do think it can move the needle and I do think there is a moment here where we do have some advantages I would say in on the AI side um versus the other folks and I I think
43:44
there's just an opportunity to change the interface like in a big big way and that's exciting as a as a as a builder of products in general but as a OS uh maker and as experience maker like making that as smooth as possible because circle to search is actually possible without that integration. Like you could
44:00
Like you could download the image, you could open up the lens app, you could upload your image, you could then crop, you could you like you could have done those things, you know, but I think it's like how do you actually make it seamless and make it easy and when you do that, I think it really it really takes off.
44:21
as the uh resident marketing and messaging boy on the podcast.
44:28
>> Is that is that on your business card or >> Yeah, that's title.
44:32
>> I just love this boredom insight so much about people being a little tired of their iPhones and the new vanilla campaign I just absolutely love. >> Do you like that? >> I do.
44:43
I mean, it just really hones in on this idea that like it's kind of fine.
44:48
Everybody kind of likes it, but if you want something a little fresh and new that actually is gonna move you emotionally, try this new thing.
44:55
And then you show it through the circle to search through some of the AI features.
45:01
And I think that is the only way to break through to uh anybody but but phone holster guys, >> which I am.
45:07
Yeah, >> you have a holster now. >> Yeah.
45:10
And I mean the lanyard, everything.
45:12
You know, this is why I'm probably not the best example of someone who uh you need to be trying to convert.
45:17
Samir, >> were you involved in that >> in the vanilla ad? No.
45:19
I mean, I I um I was involved in so much as like early concept.
45:25
What are the things that really resonate?
45:27
But but um in terms of making that happen, like we have such an amazing marketing team.
45:31
Um they're they're so talented.
45:34
I I think um it's also a willingness to be a little bit more direct about what we're trying to convey.
45:41
And I think that's the benefit of having Pixel, you know.
45:43
I mean, I think first and foremost, the product has to be really good and, you know, it's I think Pixel's won like best smartphone of the year like a couple years in a row.
45:51
Like the reviews have been pretty good.
45:53
Um, you know, and and so the teams worked super hard um on the hardware, on the software.
45:58
Um and and so I think the marketing team felt, you know, hey, like we have a story to tell here, you know, and there's some real truth in the market around phone boredom, you know, um and and I think something new, something different was was clearly a feeling that was resonating um as they as they looked at it.
46:21
So I think that campaign is great.
46:21
I also like what they did with like best what what was it called again?
46:26
Best phone best friends forever.
46:27
the, you know, where the Pixel and the and the and the iPhone are.
46:31
Have you have you all seen those?
46:35
>> Yeah, this is like last year.
46:35
I thought those were some of those are cute as well.
46:38
Um, but but I think it's important that it be grounded in something that people really feel instinctively and emotionally, not something that's mean or or um or doesn't, you know, doesn't really resonate.
46:48
And I think sometimes when you just throw tons of features out, you know, you're you're speaking to a different part of the brain, right?
46:55
The laundry list never works, right?
46:55
and neither does the like you're a ivory tower elite and we're the ones who actually care about technology and features.
47:05
And I think that's some of the stuff maybe Samsung has has touched on in the past or you know that that's why I love the vanilla is that it speaks to conformity but not in a way that's kind of insulting maybe still like vanilla ice cream once in a while.
47:18
Yeah, vanilla ice cream is I mean I think that that's that's that's a really good point, you know, like I think one of the reasons maybe it does resonate is because like there's nothing wrong with vanilla ice cream, you know. Um it's fine.
47:29
>> I think that's I think that's how Yeah, that's how people feel.
47:32
>> Well, like any good podcast, we've saved the actual news and timing of why you came on this week for the last nine minutes we've got here.
47:39
So, let's try to get into it.
47:40
Um you all announced this week that this is Android now.
47:43
We're we're moving off of phones.
47:45
um your first kind of headset VR I don't know if you're calling it VR mixed reality headset partner for Android with Samsung.
47:54
This has been a long rumored reported on teased device. It's finally coming out.
47:59
Um I have so many questions about this Samir.
48:02
I mean I I've been covering headsets for as long as I can remember.
48:06
Um, and it really feels like the the timing of this right now is very curious to me because if you look at what's going on, like Apple seems to be walking back from the Vision Pro.
48:16
I know they just did the chip bump, but like Vision Pro has been kind of >> Yeah, it's been kind of a dud for them.
48:24
You can get them for half off on eBay.
48:26
Meta, meanwhile, didn't do a Quest upgrade.
48:28
It seems like they're kind of giving up on Quest.
48:29
They won't say that, but that seems to be my read.
48:31
They're more focused on the glasses.
48:33
So, why is Google doing headsets with people like Samsung, other partners in the year 2025?
48:43
Like, is there a headset market?
48:45
I'm just very skeptical that there actually is one.
48:47
>> It's a great it's a great question.
48:47
Um, I mean, I think there I think there is a headset market for sure.
48:51
I think the question is how big will that market be over time is what you're what you're asking, right?
48:56
And um I mean, there there are lots of different prognostications on this.
49:02
My view on it is that the headset for us was important for a few different reasons.
49:06
Um, when we started the Android XR platform, we had a multi multi-year vision, you know, of of a of a of a variety of different devices that people would want to build that were used for different purposes, right?
49:18
And um, you know, I think the head when people think about a headset today, what you see is um, you know, a device that's like pretty heavy um, relative to other things that you would wear on your face.
49:29
You know, you probably wouldn't go out in public with it, you know.
49:32
Um, uh, I I've seen some people use them on planes.
49:34
I I've never done that, but like I like you don't generally think of it as a device that you're going out and about with, right?
49:42
But what it does what it does have is it it does it is a first stop on a long-term vision to building this um this this augmented reality future, right?
49:55
where you you have uh a number of things you have to perfect on this device really to really get that right.
50:02
You know, you have to get world locking right.
50:03
You have to get um you know, you you have to figure out how to do um uh uh digital and optical pass through prop, you know, done well.
50:11
You have to deal with thermals.
50:13
You have to deal with, you know, a whole bunch of things um weight in the dynamics of all that.
50:18
Um you have frontfacing cameras that that you know, you you want to be able to do perception with.
50:21
you know there's so there's like a lot there that you can use as you build this future vision.
50:27
So for many companies it is their first stop along the way to that future vision.
50:34
vision. It's not like it's just for the so like it has many me many meanings for us like the reason we're doing it is like we do think there's an opportunity in headsets but we also think there's a lot of technology that we pre um that we perfect for the future that's going to be really really important to um to glasses and so you know and I think and
50:53
I don't think that's a unique strategy to Google I think that's a lot of what when you really get deep in the space you start to realize that it's a great form factor to begin getting this stuff out there you know in that way the other thing that was really exciting to us is to start to perfect a new human computer interface. Um, which is, you know, one
51:07
Um, which is, you know, one of the things that's really awesome about this headset is like we when we were building it, kind of the AI, all the Gen AI stuff happened early on.
51:19
And so, we still had time to to say like, whoa, whoa, take a step back.
51:21
And we actually delayed things a lot, you know, because of this.
51:25
We said, well, take a step back.
51:27
Let's actually build Gemini into the UI, not as kind of like the UI is done and then we're going to add Gemini on the side, you know, and we'll try to like integrate it in over time, but like let's build it in there from the beginning in a way that's very different.
51:43
And I think why this form factor allows for that initially is like a few different things.
51:49
Like there is no dominant like way of using a headset.
51:53
Like there the UI is not something that you know old dogs new tricks, right?
51:56
like you don't have 10 years of experience using a headset where you're like oh you know what is this thing you know so you can start from scratch in some ways right you know second I think when you when you want the f future vision of a personal AI assistant you know in something like glasses you know
52:13
you do need this notion of like it can see the world with you it can hear the world with you and you want to start perfecting those models one of the things that's great about the XR environment with the headset is that a lot of that environment is rendered, right? And so you can pass that entirely
52:28
And so you can pass that entirely through to the model um perfectly.
52:31
So it can be the first place where it can see everything that you can see.
52:36
It can hear everything that you can hear, you know, and and so like we're we're going to learn a lot about that and you want to start building experiences with that capability.
52:44
We had this moment where we were looking at it like what was possible with Gemini and this is like very early Gemini, you know.
52:49
So we we were like, "What if this improves like 10x?"
52:53
Like Demis is saying this is going to improve 10x.
52:55
Like what if this improves 10x?
52:56
And we just sort of looked at each other and we said like, "Okay, like remember the Iron Man movies like where you put on this thing and then you have Jarvis with you?"
53:04
Like Jarvis isn't like this thing that you go to occasionally and you're like, "Hey, help me with this thing."
53:10
It's like constantly with you. Sees what you can see.
53:13
Can actually take actions for you in the UI.
53:16
Can actually accomplish tasks for you while you're doing this. it can do that, right?
53:20
And we're like, that's pretty awesome.
53:23
Like, I bet that would be amazing to build and like would be really relevant for glasses, would be really relevant for other form factors. Let's do that.
53:32
I know what the killer use case is. Killer use case.
53:34
I circle to search my wife and I say, "What did she tell me to move to the garage? I already forgot."
53:45
>> Yeah, that's a good one.
53:46
>> 500 million units sold. >> 500 million units.
53:48
Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to add that to the list.
53:52
>> So, when you and I were catching up recently, Samir, a thing you were telling me about was like you're really interested in this idea of like super memory, which I am too in glasses. >> Exactly.
54:01
>> The idea of like perfect recall of faces, conversations, context, all that.
54:06
And Google feels uniquely positioned to do that uh in a glasses form factor.
54:08
Um, is that the killer app?
54:11
Is that the I mean you said Jarvis but like to me that alone is a thing that will get people to buy something like that.
54:20
>> I mean super memory is definitely something that I I haven't met a single person that tells me that that wouldn't be really helpful in their life, right?
54:31
Tons of privacy issues there that we have to work through, right?
54:33
So like there's a lot to solve there.
54:34
but as a vision for like how to help you in your daily life.
54:40
I mean, just seems really really useful.
54:43
Um, another one that's maybe shorter term is something I was encountering the other day, which is like you buy a piece of furniture, you have a set of instructions, you know, and God help you, you know.
55:02
Um, and I, you know, I'd love to just like glance at the instructions and then like start assembling the furniture and have it have something like tell me like no, no, no, like it's that one, that screw, it's attach this to that.
55:11
it's like do you know and I think those those kinds of things can be really helpful.
55:16
Um and uh and and and I think all this stuff is going to be possible.
55:20
Um which is why it's super exciting and I think that this form factor is really is really really interesting.
55:27
>> So we're about to see the return of Google Glass.
55:28
Is that what you're saying?
55:31
>> We have a lot of history in this space. We're not new to it.
55:33
Um I I think we learned a lot through through the past.
55:37
Um I mean you know we're not new to XR.
55:40
you know, we have Daydream before we had, you know, Google Glass for glasses.
55:44
I think one of the things, so we learned a lot about both of these, which we've tried to incorporate.
55:47
If you make it too hard for developers to build in this new environment, like it's just a really heavy lift and they have a lot to do, you know, which is so obvious.
55:56
I mean, obviously, you know, but like I think this time around, we've really tried to make it like if you're building for Android, then your app is already going to work in a 2D form in in in XR.
56:06
And then we've tried to make it like you can add on parts of your app that are spatialized, you know, you don't have to like start from scratch.
56:16
So like maps, like Google Maps is like there's 2D maps which are really important, but then there's like these 3D things they've added on which are immersive.
56:23
And so like when the 2D version of it updates, that just like pulls through.
56:26
That's not like a different app, you know?
56:28
So I think that's really helpful.
56:30
We learned that the hard way and and it's really key.
56:33
On the glasses side, one of the things we learned, again, obvious in retrospect, um is like they've got to be glasses that you really want to wear first and foremost, you know, like >> as it turns out, >> as it turns out, you need to want >> We have to learn that lesson at Snapchat as well. >> Yeah. Like this is important.
56:51
And you need to want to put them on your face and you need to want and and and not just like the fashion part.
56:57
The fashion part is really important.
56:58
The other part that's really important is like does it support my prescription? You know what?
57:04
If I wanted to have transition lenses, you know what?
57:06
Like there's there's a two billion people who wear, you know, eyeglasses in the world and there's a whole industry built up around the customizations they want, you know.
57:15
So, you've got to support that stuff because there's a whole history behind it, you know.
57:20
So, um, I think that's really important, which is why we're, you know, we picked some great partners, Warby Parker and Gentle Monster to start with that are going to be working with us on on on all of that.
57:29
So, yeah, >> but there's going to be there's going to be Google first party glasses, too.
57:35
Like, >> well, we haven't announced anything.
57:36
Um, I think I think >> but but I mean, I I think there it's a very fair question to go like what would you even call it because, right, like Google Glass carries a lot with it, right?
57:46
Like there was the whole glass hole stigma.
57:47
Um, it was a very early product, you know, it was the right direction, but just I think way too early.
57:53
Um, and you were there at the time.
57:55
I mean, I'm sure you remember the company kind of going through that reaction to that product. Um, >> definitely.
58:00
>> How does that inform the how you would approach doing Google Glasses in the future?
58:06
>> I mean, I I I have a picture actually of myself like I I I didn't I I was able to um I wasn't working on Android at the time or or Google Glass when it was back in the day, but I was around.
58:14
And so I had a friend I think who was working on it and he lent me one to use and the main thing I wanted to do was actually go out in public somewhere with it to experience that element of it, you know, just once to see.
58:29
So, my family did a trip to Disneyland and I was like, "Okay, like I can see taking really cool video or photos like on a roller coaster or something, you know, like with my kid, you know, like let's let me let me wear it."
58:43
But I'm also going to get a lot of weird looks, you know, and I want to see how that feels, you know, and um it didn't feel great, you know? Um it didn't feel great.
58:53
And and um and I think a lot of it was cur like some people you could tell they were curious like what is that you know like I would say that was the majority of it cuz I think people are generally pretty nice and they were just like oh I'm curious like maybe maybe he has trouble seeing or maybe maybe that's just like some new gadget or like what is that?
59:12
I don't know what that is.
59:14
>> But then there were definitely some people that were like okay you're one of that those people you know and >> and um yeah it didn't feel great.
59:21
Um, so you know, I think I think it's really important that whatever you put out there, you you you there's just as much a component here of technology, fashion, and also, you know, wearability, you know, and and all those things together.
59:41
Besides the watch, there are very few things that, you know, you're going to wear on your body that are a piece of technology um for that many hours a day, right?
59:49
It's a combination of many different disciplines together.
59:53
Um, and getting it right is super hard.
59:56
>> It does feel like the world is more primed for that though with so like the the success of the meta ray bands recently in the last year or two, right?
1:00:04
Shows that maybe we're in an era now where people are more comfortable with this idea.
1:00:07
I think people are used to being watched and cameras being everywhere more so than they were when glass first came out, you know, all those years ago.
1:00:14
So maybe there's also like a societal timing element of this that is bigger than anything you could do.
1:00:20
Well, I mean, first of all, I think, you know, credit to to the meta folks.
1:00:22
I mean, their their initial glasses also don't look like I mean, they look like glasses, you know, um that.
1:00:30
And so, I think I think one of the things is like if you didn't see the ring light up or read the side of it or whatever, you would just think that somebody had a pair of sunglasses on from a distance, you know, and and so I think that just helps a lot, you know.
1:00:45
I I do think there will still be questions that everybody in the industry will have to wrestle with about um about data, you know, and where what's being captured and when and how and and all that.
1:00:55
And I think there's two sides to that, right?
1:00:58
There's one side of it is by the bystander problem of, you know, what about this that's going on amongst us right now is being piped somewhere, right?
1:01:10
And then the other is for you yourself, you know, if you're walking around your house with them.
1:01:15
Um, you know, what what is where is that data going and what where is it?
1:01:20
You know, like one of the examples that I I give is like you're walking around the house and at the end right before you go out the door, you don't know where your keys are.
1:01:32
If you've had the glasses on watching the whole time, which is not a mode that I think is is by default, but like you turned it on, you know, like you would be able to ask like Gemini like, "Hey, where where are my keys?"
1:01:44
Cuz it would have seen, you know, what and and and it's like, "Oh, it's on your nightstand." Like, "Oh, okay. Thank you."
1:01:50
You know, now that's really helpful, but also, you know, it's seeing a lot of things, right?
1:01:54
And so I think these are all things that we're really discussing intently internally and making sure that you know we have we have answers to these things.
1:02:03
And you're right I think societyy's also evolving.
1:02:07
Um but I think privacy is still obviously really really important. >> Definitely.
1:02:11
And and I think it it is like I don't think it's going away.
1:02:13
And I I for us as product builders, we think it's important too.
1:02:17
And so we're going to have to get all that right.
1:02:20
>> I know we're uh out of time here.
1:02:20
So I have a very critical last question.
1:02:22
What is your favorite Google internal corporate buzzword at the moment?
1:02:32
>> We had Ryzon and we were talking about orthogonal.
1:02:36
Uh we've had some googly episodes recently.
1:02:38
>> Google has innovated so many words over the years.
1:02:41
>> Okay, I'll give you I'll give you a personal pet peeve uh maybe of a word that gets used sometimes.
1:02:46
Um I think the word aligned um is a pet peeve of mine.
1:02:51
Um, I'm not saying I I haven't I've used it, okay?
1:02:56
But like I think align sometimes is a way of saying that we've talked to each other so much that we've now taken the average of what we're all saying and we can kind of pass it as something we all agree to but we haven't really agreed.
1:03:12
Um, and sometimes in product building like you you really have to make starker harder choices about stuff.
1:03:16
So um sometimes sometimes not always the you know the the quality of the thing you're creating is inversely proportional to how many times people have said we're totally aligned on this.
1:03:31
>> Well luckily we're not totally aligned on everything Samir but I think this was a great conversation.
1:03:35
I do feel generally aligned.
1:03:37
Maybe not totally aligned. I don't know about you. >> That's good. That's good.
1:03:40
It was it was great talking to both of you.
1:03:42
Congrats on all the all the progress with the with the pod and I'm I'm glad I >> Thanks so much for coming.
1:03:46
Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks again guys. See you soon.
1:03:51
>> Thanks to Samir for coming on the show, the Android Press.
1:03:55
>> We're a new show, so please follow, like, subscribe everywhere you get podcasts at AccessPod.
1:04:00
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1:04:06
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1:04:13
>> You can find my newsletter at sources. news.
1:04:16
>> And you can find me at hamburger on Twitter and at meaning. co company.
1:04:20
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1:04:22
Our producer is Shiraz Dum. >> See you next week. >> Bye.
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