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Andrew Watt, it's great to see you, man.
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Andy, what a beautiful life in music you get to live.
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I'm so thrilled that we get another chance to talk about what you do and what you do so well.
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Um, this playlist is absolutely crazy.
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I mean, these are just handpicked songs from all the music.
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Not even all the music, a selection of the music that you've created.
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There's like 4 hours and 30 odd minutes of songs here on this playlist.
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And that's just like the chosen ones.
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I mean, what is what what do you think when you think about that that amount of music, you know, when you think about the amount that you've done?
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Do you even think about it in totality? >> I don't.
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It actually like makes me >> Yeah. >> cringe.
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Um it's a lot of lot of hours spent, you know.
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>> So, how do you how do you work then?
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Is it literally on a dayby-day basis?
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You is focus the key here? >> Yeah.
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I mean, it's like the oldest statement in the world.
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If you're doing what you love, then you're not really working, right?
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Um, so >> I've been in situations before where I was doing something that I wasn't that into and then I my focus is nowhere.
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Like the childhood add comes back bigger than ever.
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But if it's something that I'm I love, like we were just listening to Wreckage by Pearl Jam, >> I'm I'm in it until it's, you know, perfect for everyone.
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So the hours uh they they don't really add up for me until you realize you've been working for 18 hours straight and then you're exhausted. >> Yeah.
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Do you have a limit on how far you can go >> on a session or on a on a song or whatever before like are you the last person to cave in and be like, "Man, I need to sleep right now."
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>> It's it's like an ongoing thing.
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It's it's a really weird for me when I'm deep in a project.
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It's like it's it's all the time.
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It's not that I'm there all the time working on it, but >> you're consumed by it. Yeah. >> I'll go to sleep.
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Going to sleep is the best thing ever for, you know, if you can get it to stop looping in your head.
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You wake up the next day like >> within the first hour of being awake.
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I like to listen to it again just because you're fresh or but it's still right there and you want to see what it's like and you have a great thought on it.
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So, it's kind of, you know, all the different parts of the day >> give you a different perspective on what it's going to sound like.
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Have you now is it safe to say you have worked with with a good a healthy amount of the artists that got you on this in the first place?
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The people that really raised you as a young music fan? >> Yes, absolutely.
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Um and and it means so much, you know.
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Um it's like going to college >> every working with these artists and uh learning from them and getting to use that with other artists after, you know, it's like sharpening the tools every time.
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So, what does that teach you about manifestation and the gravity of being a fan to appear? >> Yeah.
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If I wish I I said to my mom like, "Why don't we have a photo of me like in my childhood bedroom?"
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Like there's there's no those photos don't exist.
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My childhood bedroom was Stones posters and Pearl Jam posters and >> you know, Chili Peppers posters and everything of the people that are in my life and friends and that I work with.
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It kind of would make me look a little bit like a stalker almost, I think.
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Um, but >> only after a certain age. >> Yeah. >> When you're young.
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It's called being a super fan. It's totally fine.
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>> You're a great musician.
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Did you go to concerts and hold signs up and stuff like that? >> Never did the signs.
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I mean, definitely the t-shirts and the merch guy and all that sort of stuff, you know. Never did the signs. Um, yeah.
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I mean, look, keep the stubs, you know.
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Of course, the big one for me is I could I could tell you the first song played by almost every one of my favorite concerts I've ever been to from a young age.
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You know, I'm a super set list obsessed person.
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>> Like I could tell you Nana started with, you know, school, I think, at the gig they played in in Oakuckland when they came and did the Never Mind Tour.
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So, >> you know, it's it's it's pretty >> that that I'm obsessed.
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I I never understand what I say to people like, "Oh, what did they start with?"
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And they're like, "I couldn't even tell you." Mhm.
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>> I'm like, how can you not tell me what the first song they played was?
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That's the best part of the show.
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>> That makes sense now going to building these playlists, you remember everything.
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>> What was the first show that you went to as a as a young music fan that that blew your mind that you walked away and you were like, I can't even comprehend what I just saw. It's changed me forever.
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>> Probably seeing Pearl Jam. Honestly, I saw them.
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I've I've went to, you know, a lot of concerts with my parents and my parents brought me to different things, but my older brother took me to go see a Pearl Gem play >> um when I was like 11 or 12 or something.
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>> What was the first song they played? >> Uh release.
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>> Oh, you got that show.
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>> Oh, that's the show >> where they start a little >> action.
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I see when I saw them in Oakuckland play when they was they were touring Vitalology, they started with oceans. >> Yeah.
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>> I love it when they start slow.
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>> Amazing when they start slow >> and like you know a lot of bands will be like let's hit them hard at the top, right?
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And but Eddie like ease you in. >> Got one of those. >> One of those.
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>> The best Pearl Jam show I ever went to though.
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I went to they were closing the Philadelphia Spectrum >> last show.
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last show at the Spectrum ever.
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And they did four nights over New Year's and I went to all four nights.
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This is in like 2008 or 2009 or something.
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>> Um or no, it's even earlier than that.
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But >> um you you went as a fan and you hear them start playing.
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Oh, they're playing like one of their full albums.
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Okay, now they're playing another full album.
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They played their entire discoraphy. >> Yes.
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You saw the whole thing >> over the four days >> up to that moment in time. You saw the whole thing.
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>> Yeah, I saw the whole thing.
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And like you realize they're doing it by like day three.
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You're like, "Wait, are they actually doing this?
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They're going to play every song they've ever written."
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>> Well, that's the trick, you know, if you're a Pill Jam fan.
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That's why people, you know, walk away from any tour they're on with five or six stubs in their back pocket cuz you want to see whatever they didn't play the night before.
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There'll be a few classics they'll continue to throw in there, but they'll always honor the fans by doing that.
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That's a real Eddie move. I know.
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I don't know if people realize how much work that really takes to do.
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Like how long that guy is in every hotel room with every song he's ever played in the venue ever in their history and going through hundreds and hundreds of songs and hundreds of drafts of a set list for each show.
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I mean, it's it's hours and hours and hours of work. >> Fun work, though. >> Yeah.
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>> It's kind of the dream to go through all your songs, right, and figure what you haven't played before.
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What you going to play tonight?
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And then break it to the band.
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They're going to play a song they haven't played for nine years with no rehearsal.
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>> As a Pearl Jam fan, that's a great reward to get.
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You know, >> it's the reward.
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It's why you keep coming back. Um, okay.
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You know, you have already won the Grammy for producer of the year.
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Um, I'm sure you're going to win it again.
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Um, you know, you just keep working and the work is too good and you know, these things come in cycles, but I'm sure you're going to win it again.
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But we got to start, we got to figure out where this starts for you.
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uh when it goes from being a fan to being a player to being someone who wanted to contribute uh and what those early days were like for you trying to find your feet and your identity as a musician even before we knew you as Andrew White record producer.
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>> I think growing up in New York is a huge part of um my foundation. I played in every bar.
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I played while people ate. I played at restaurants.
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I played in clothing stores while people would like shop and stuff like that.
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anywhere where they were like, "Yes, you could play your guitar here."
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I went, >> but going up and down Bleecker Street and being in those bars, many of which you've been to, um, like the Bitter End, played there a million times.
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>> And, you know, the guy that owned it was always like, "You ever hear of Lady Gaga?
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She used to play, you know, it was like 20 2007 or something, really early." Mhm.
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>> Um, and you know, going there and seeing blues bands play and doing all this stuff and sitting in with different musicians really kind of informed um, a lot of different styles.
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I interned for the roots.
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I don't know if I ever told you that before. >> That's crazy.
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What What is an intern for the roots then?
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>> So, they they had just moved to um, New York to do the Jimmy Fallon show. Yeah.
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And so, they decided to do these jam sessions at the Highline Ballroom.
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Did you ever go to one of those? >> Yeah.
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No one went to one of those jam sessions but I know the highlight board. >> Okay.
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So they would do these jam sessions and everyone from Balal to you know the night John Forte got out of jail he came there and performed and >> just like everyone in hip-hop would come and it was amazing.
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So I would go to these jam sessions and I would wait for Quest Love after the thing and try and talk to him like hey I play guitar.
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Can I play guitar here sometime?
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And he's like yeah talk to this woman.
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So her name was Jenny Sus and she ran Okay Player. >> You >> Yeah. The label. Yeah. >> Yeah.
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And music reviews label and everything. Their their thing.
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So long story short, >> I ended up hounding her and I got an internship at Okay Player.
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>> So I was the guy like opening up Dell the funky homo sapiian when it came in and like listening to it, uploading it.
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had to be uploaded to CD and then sending it out to like the different music reviewers for them to >> to do that.
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But I got to hear like all these different albums before they came out to the public.
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So it was like Christmas, you know?
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I heard the Black Keys album before it came out.
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I heard the New Pearl Jam album before it came out.
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All these albums would come in in every genre. >> That's education. >> Yeah.
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So I would go to those jam sessions to help her every night.
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And then one night, Captain Kirk had like a family emergency and Questa was like, "All right, you're up."
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I was like, "What do you mean I'm up?"
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He's like, "Kirk's not here.
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You've been here every night. You play guitar.
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You said you want to play guitar. You're on." I'm like, "Okay."
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So, I ran home to my apartment, got my guitar, and I played that night and I played great.
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Um, and James Poer was up there and OB and they were calling changes, and I was following everything, and I like got I got it.
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So, um, and knew how to play some of their songs.
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And so, after that, they kept letting me play.
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And then that turned into getting gigs with different musicians and The Offis London, people like that.
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And I just started touring and playing.
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And then I started writing music with those artists.
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And that's the shoot your shot. >> That's the story.
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>> Shoot your shot and be ready when it lands.
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You've got to be ready when it lands. >> Yes.
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>> Yes. that moment if I got up there and I didn't know what to do or I froze or I hadn't had you know the the mental space to stop you know there a lot of that gig was about not playing right letting the MC's >> Yeah yeah yeah you got space for sure >> tons of space one lick whatever it is so
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that was that was a big night >> we're similar man I mean I've got moments in my life like that you know you pressure you put this kind of like what well-intentioned pressure on people to give you a break and then they're like all right here's your break Yeah. >> What are you going to do with it? It's
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>> What are you going to do with it?
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It's like, oh >> It's like the Eminem song. >> Yeah. One shot. One shot.
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Um, what an amazing story.
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>> Uh, I knew you as your as your own artist when I when I first came into contact with who you were.
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>> You had the hair out and you were like rocking.
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Uh, and then I and then I think, you know, you started moving in the in the pop world in a pretty real way.
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You started working with, you know, Justin, a lot of really amazing pop stars.
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And what were those early days like that?
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Like when you started to get into sessions the s cuz you don't do sessions anymore.
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You probably do, but you don't have to. You do albums.
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You do eras with artists, right?
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But when you're starting out, it's like speed dating. >> It's funny.
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I've actually literally for the first time in so long, I've just been like, I want to do a couple sessions again cuz it was like so funny.
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It's like tapping back into that.
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So funny to hear you say that.
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Like spend two days with >> Hey, it's really nice to meet you.
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How bad is this heartbreak?
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It's like, what the are you talking about?
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How am I supposed to tell you about this?
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>> It's It's a hard thing to tap into.
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Um, you know, I one of the the artists that I ended up playing with, I was Cody Simpson's guitar player. >> Wow.
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>> And we were opening for Justin Bieber.
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So, >> Justin and I got uh tight through that.
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>> And he uh really looked at me different than everyone else looked at me like early on.
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He was like, "Let's make music. Let's write.
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Let's just coming in the studio."
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He he was having a session.
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He was actually having a session with Rick where they made all this crazy amazing We were making all this amazing music.
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He didn't like the guitar player on the session.
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So, he called me up, picked me up. We went out to Malibu.
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>> Was it the first time you met Rick Rubin when you were out there?
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>> That was the first time I met Rick Rubin. Yeah.
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Who's who's a great friend now and mentor.
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Um, but yeah, we went out to Shangria and I was in this band again and it was like he would Rick would play us a reference and then we would like just jam on the reference and then change the reference and then change the key and change the speed and that was a real learning moment for me to see how he got a band playing grooves that could be written to.
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>> Was that where the light bulb went off in your head and you were like, you know what, I actually think I can be the conductor here.
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I think I can be the I think I can be the architect.
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I was I was writing and kind of doing doing kind of sessions up to that point already. >> Yeah.
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>> But that was a whole different thing.
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Of seeing like how to run a band. >> Yeah.
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>> And and make things with multiple musicians together instead of just trying to do pop sessions. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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Get your door open and let's lay down a bass guitar and you write the top line and away we go.
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So Justin would like kind of bring with me uh to places with him.
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And I ended up writing this song through, you know, working with different uh writers and stuff called Let Me Love You.
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>> And that was the first time like a lot of people wanted one of my songs.
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Um other the other writers, managers were sending it around and it turned into this thing.
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People different artists were cutting the song.
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I didn't even know they were cutting the song.
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I had no control over this thing that I had written.
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So that's when like everything kind of changed for me because I was like that can't happen.
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I had already showed the song to Justin and he loved the song. He wanted the song. That's my boy. He's >> my friend.
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So >> I had to kind of shut down a whole bunch of other stuff and get get with him and get the record done and made >> at that moment in time.
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That's some alpha >> People were cutting this song without checking with the people that wrote the song.
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And that was like, >> oh yeah, they wanted it. >> That's like a lab.
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That's like an LA >> music business kind of thing.
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That >> Yeah, that's a great thrash.
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What a great feeling and a stressful feeling that must be at the same time.
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What did you What did How did it feel, if you can put into words, the first time you had a hit? It was It was insane.
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Um, it was amazing to, you know, have been on tour with Justin and played with him also.
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And I I started playing with him a bit as well and like to be playing other people's hits and and performing, you know, cuz I was in everyone's band and seeing the crowd go crazy and then all of a sudden you're playing your song, he's singing it and the crowd is singing it back.
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and watching the first time what something had meant to you >> personally and what it then means to everyone else was um unbelievable.
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Do you have moments when things come out and you even not that you forget you work on it because you remind it immediately but you forget that there's check coming in because you've moved on you're five things down the road and a year a year later someone sends you a check for a song that you're like oh yeah >> yeah I think it's happened but >> but let's leave it there so it doesn't seem like you don't care.
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No, it's more the point I'm trying to make is that it's more that like you're moving on like you know you're on to the next. >> Yeah.
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I think there was a period of like time where I was just hopping by people's studios and laying down guitar riffs and some of those.
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That's that that's I'm like, "Oh yeah, that song. I forgot about that."
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>> What was that daylight with Blink? >> It was great. Mark is hilarious. >> So funny. >> He's amazing. >> So smart. He's so smart.
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>> And and that voice very nostalgic for me obviously growing up.
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>> They're like, "Yeah, YEAH, DICK JOKE, DICK, JOKE, DICK, JOKE, DICK, JOKE."
16:06
NOW, let's talk about the socioeconomic pressures of the Southeast Asia region and how it's going to affect the healthcare.
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And it's just unbelievable.
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My favorite thing I did with them actually never came out, but it was a song with them and Juice.
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>> Oh >> Which was >> I had to go there. Let's go there.
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>> Which was really special.
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Obviously, I had like the most amazing relationship with Juice and he would just come over my house at Crazy Times and loved guitar.
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But he would be he would have a song in his head before he heard a beat and he'd be like, "Is the mic on?"
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as he was walking down the stairs. The mic's on. Full song. One breath. That's it.
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Benny tells me that he's never worked with anyone. >> It's true. >> Like that.
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>> Never ever never seen it before. Never saw it after.
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Full breath, whole song, headphones off, the song's done. It's structured. It's everything.
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>> For someone who wasn't in the room with Juice and didn't know him as well as you did.
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And I' and I really, it's important we have these conversations as and when appropriate because it's about legacy and keeping the spirit of the music and and and the human that's no longer with us in physical form alive.
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So, what did you experience that made him so s so brilliant and and appeal to so many of us with his talent?
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>> Again, we touched on it for a second, but that ability to have an entire song in his head >> and just spit it out in thought and rhyme >> um is >> it's like it's supernatural.
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Um, and I think a lot of people know that he's able to do that.
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Um, and and kids love videos of him in the studio doing his thing as much as they love >> the records. >> Yeah.
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>> So, you know, my fiance Charlotte's little brother Henry knows every Juicew World song, every lyric, every song.
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He he shows me songs of mine that are leaked >> that I don't even know are leaked that he knows every word of.
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And so like they're in the forums finding this and they're watching the videos of him in the studio.
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They know his process and his ability.
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And I think that that kind of supernatural thing, it's like a, you know, a Michael Jordan or a Kobe thing, you know, it's like an athlete at such a high level able to do something that no one else can.
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Um, I think that's that's part of the thing that really speaks to people.
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>> We're going to get to this um sort of super producer era in a second, but um I think a transition into that is um the idea of of recognizing the importance of EQ in your role, emotional intelligence, and not just your creative ability or your ability to be able to help people realize their vision, their dream that, you know, do something that exists within a creative architecture, but also help people during tough times.
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Um that is an important part of the role.
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Um, there was a time when we lost Juice.
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We lost a lot of people around that time and it just felt like it felt pretty out of control for a while there.
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Um, was that a big steep learning curve for you realizing that like for all the time you get to spend with people and the creative time and the fun times of making music and being around them that it goes deeper than that there we have to take care of each other too and how you factor that into the role of a producer, right?
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because you are right there during people's most honest moments and times when they're not at their best.
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>> There has been times where I have had to have a conversation with someone that I'm working with that they maybe don't want to have or a harder conversation.
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Um, and you just kind of you put your heart first and you weather the storm together and you know people don't want to be told what to do.
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But I find that if uh somebody is looking you in the eye and knows that you really care about them or feels that you really care about them and there's proof there that um you know you can sometimes get your point across but at the end of the day people you know you can't control what other people do, >> right?
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You can control what you do and and speaking up and giving your feelings or or talking to talking to um people about, you know, your opinion, but that's all you got.
20:09
There's footage now in existence of you in studios with artists even just purely on a on a creative level where they're struggling to get past some kind of boundary or some kind of hump.
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They can't get over it to get the song done.
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And it's amazing watching you like not shy away.
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Like you have no problem sitting on the floor with them while they freak out and just being like come on.
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What's it like for you in those moments though when you realize that it's again not about the notes or about the arrangement.
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you're dealing with someone who's having a real existential crisis about their own ability and that happens. >> It does.
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Um and you know, um you can watch you're watching a genius at work.
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So that's the privilege right there. >> Oh yeah.
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>> You know, you're you're that close.
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You know, a lot of times my I I prefer I have I have such an amazing engineer named Paul Lalfa who I we're we're sympatico, you know, you met Paul a couple times.
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Um >> and I trust him to get the sounds as they're being recorded because we've gone through what we want the sounds to be like beforehand.
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So I'm in the live room most of the time while >> what's being recorded is being recorded.
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M >> um I'm there for diff a multitude of different reasons.
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Um but if I'm there with a solo artist or someone playing a singular instrument and then I'm going to have to add a bunch of music to it after have to be right there to watch the chord to learn the song to understand what's kind of going on.
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So when you're that close um it's a little bit like don't poke the bear, you know, like it's you're right. You're there. They're in their rawest.
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They're trying to nail something. They get frustrated.
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Whatever their process is, I enjoy because you're that close to watching a genius at work.
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Even when someone is just like, "Start the song.
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What the We've rehearsed this six times." Sorry, Andy.
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We've rehearsed this six times, bro.
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How hard is it for you to get the baseline right? This happens. Seriously. Well, you, man.
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Don't call me out in front everybody about this I'm sure this happens. >> Yes, it does.
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You got to just weather the storm.
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You're trying to get to the end result.
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>> This whole thing that we do, it's true for you, too. Is resultsbased.
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That process of what happens in between.
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Sometimes it's documented.
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Most of the time it's not.
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Or it's um it's just to get to the result.
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If an artist has a record that they are listening to come out of the speakers and it sounds better than they could have ever dreamed it could sound or sounds in a way that they never even thought it could sound or it's their favorite thing they ever wrote in the moment and it just sounds amazing to them.
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That whole thing that just happened before it's it's also forgotten kind of.
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It's like it's not the details of it are >> the renovation of the house once you open the door. >> Yeah.
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So, you're trying to get there. >> Yeah.
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>> And that's just like a step in the process.
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Um, and people people freak out for different reasons. It's a vulnerable place.
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The microphones are recording you. You're there. You're you got to kill.
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You got to be at your best. >> Yeah.
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>> And and you know, self-doubt comes in, different opinions come in.
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You got to be really careful about how you give your opinion as well.
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>> So, how do you do that?
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I try to never make what I'm saying feel definitive.
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I don't give an opinion and say this is wrong. It should be like this.
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I give I try and give my opinion and say this could be the worst idea ever, but why don't we try this?
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Or what if this goes around twice or what if this is a tag?
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What if it gets, you know, longer each time? It could work.
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It could be terrible, but can we try it?
24:15
It's that that kind of, you know, um that kind of approach I find is met by, you know, a more willing answer than like shooting down someone else's idea and trying to get yours across.
24:30
You could be right, you could be wrong.
24:32
So, you're also protecting yourself there a little bit.
24:35
But you've also, you know, developed a really good tactic of getting artists to, and I touched on this with the Pill Jam thing, of acknowledging who they are inherently versus who they want to try to get away from.
24:44
Most artists will make the biggest album of their career and then they'll be like, I don't ever want to make anything that sounds like that ever again.
24:49
It's not good identity work for me.
24:51
I'm stuck in a loop and I don't want that to be expectation for the rest of my life.
24:54
That's pretty well documented.
24:56
you find a way to get these artists to go back and just revisit if if you're talking putting it through the Neil Young filter like go back and reconnect with that band who was still there just for a brief moment to capture that magic again and then bring it to the present day.
25:11
>> Yeah, >> that's that's really tough to get Pill Jam to put a wistful minor thing at the end of a rock song to take us into the big chanting chorus again.
25:19
I they don't they don't lean into that all the time anymore. >> Big endings.
25:22
Um, I think if you you look at Eddie as a big wave surfer, >> then you understand what he needs to do his thing.
25:32
And that band is they're the only people that can do that, you know.
25:39
Um, they their ability to rise into something great. >> Unbelievable band.
25:45
go into a whole different chord progression for the outro where he can like really, you know, feel like he's like hitting the highest wave and go to the mountaintop.
25:55
Um, that's and he's willing to take it on.
25:57
>> But do you get a stone sometimes looking at you going, "Andy, we did that."
26:02
>> I don't I'm not trying to sit there and make them play blood, you know?
26:05
It's not It's not like that. It's >> It's them.
26:10
M >> it's it's it's the for it's it's the formation of them and then we're just bouncing off of each other, you know.
26:15
Um >> the magic trick >> I think, you know, to push um the songs to be like a little faster or someone has something and let's bump the tempo up a little bit or get it in a key where it's Ed's going to be comfortable singing it, but he can also reach for things in different places.
26:33
It's that kind of stuff, you know, that's that's the stuff that that um I think is is my my role there.
26:42
But um you know, I am an unapologetic fan and I think for >> same by the way >> some people >> and maybe it's the same for you.
26:57
>> Sometimes they're like, >> "What the are you talking about, man? That's fake.
26:59
You're I'm doubting you." Right?
27:01
M cuz you come on like really knowing your and like with your heart open. >> Mhm.
27:07
>> So I think um for sometimes that's hard for people to accept. >> Oh yeah. >> Um for sure.
27:14
And if they do accept it or when they do accept it and they see that it's real and it's genuine and then we can go somewhere together um we we get a result that maybe feels like something that people love about the band but something fresh. >> Yeah.
27:32
But you know the only way you get through that and you get people to understand where where you're coming from is you keep showing up. >> Yeah.
27:37
>> Because they can only cry foul for so long.
27:39
>> You can't fake it forever.
27:39
But again, it goes back to like if you're if you're working with people that you really love. >> Yeah. Yeah.
27:47
>> Um and you you care so much about their music.
27:52
Um then you're going to make great work.
27:55
>> You play uh with some amazing musicians. Um Chili Peppers. Exchili Peppers.
28:00
You haven't made chili peppers up.
28:07
What the wrong with that?
28:07
You basically play with the chili peppers every time and you've yet to make a chili peppers out. >> Yeah.
28:13
Um they're great friends of mine. >> Yeah. >> All those guys. I love them.
28:19
>> I got to call it out though cuz it's crazy.
28:21
It's like how do you get to They were on all the other records but you know you know with the greatest respect to Rick and anybody else.
28:27
No one knows drums Chad's drum sound better than you do now and yet you don't get to make it with the band yet.
28:34
>> I'm I'm open you know. >> Yeah.
28:36
Um, >> it's got to be on your list.
28:39
>> They're they're heroes and a foundation of how I know how to play instruments, make sound.
28:47
>> Do you imagine what records sound like before you make it with them privately?
28:50
And you don't have to go into detail, but like do you go like, "Oh my god, if I if I just get one shot at a in a studio with that band, I I just I've got the I just know the what what what how it can feel.
29:00
Not even what it's going to sound like with the songs, but just how it's going to feel for me.
29:04
Yeah, you got to control those um going that far, I think, uh in your own head.
29:13
>> Otherwise, um you can let yourself down, right? >> Big one.
29:22
>> Um but again, I am I am who I am.
29:22
Those guys are are >> uh like brothers to me at this point.
29:30
Um, and they've been so supportive of me personally in my personal life and there for me in all different times and um, we, you know, get to collaborate musically and I'm always there as a sounding board or >> that would slap. >> It would slap.
29:49
Um, in the last decade you have been making these beautiful big epics, these having amazing runs with artists that you know are just the greatest of all time.
30:04
I mean in their field Aussie Stones, Sir Paul McCartney McCartney, right, Paul um Pearl Jan the list is is beautiful and wonderful.
30:17
Um, what what was the one that you really felt was the turning point for you in this sort of more experienced era of of like I said super production going in there spending a month, two month, three months getting a Stones record or longer getting a Stones record >> doing that first uh Stones record that I I It's funny.
30:35
I see the first Stones record.
30:37
It's like their I think it was like their 24th. >> I mean, dude.
30:42
This guy could just drop them all day.
30:44
He could he could drop them all day and you can't front on it, but you're asking.
30:49
>> It was a perfectly timed, totally justified flex. >> So, yeah.
30:55
Back to your first Stones record.
30:58
>> My first Stones album.
30:58
Um, going into that process, >> I think you do your best work in general when you're like, you're not sure if you're going to be able to do it. >> Were you scared?
31:12
Scared is not the word because like I don't I don't get scared really.
31:16
>> I'm like I'm I can't explain it.
31:16
I'm unsure >> and then I'm my energy goes 10 times harder to know that I can do it.
31:23
You say yes to something.
31:26
I It goes back to I once got asked, can you uh can you do you know arrange strings and record an orchestra? I never did it before. I said yes.
31:34
Orchestra was in front of me. Figured it out. Made it onto the record.
31:38
And you played with the roots at this jam at the Highline Ballroom. Yes. >> Exactly.
31:42
So when it came to it, I was like, I've worked with bands a million times before.
31:49
Um, and had done stuff with different artists.
31:52
Um, Ed Veter was like a big brother in that process when I was like, I think I'm I'm getting this and helped me a lot. Like he was like coach.
32:00
Um, >> can you remember one thing he said to you that really helped you doing that?
32:06
Just to kind of get you prepared or get you to understand that you are capable.
32:09
>> Make sure you're nobody's guy. man.
32:14
We are getting these are these are we are getting like serious serious lines here from serious people.
32:21
That's a serious bit of advice.
32:21
I I was this is like, you know, a biblical thing that you take with you because it's so true >> because also you're dealing with a a band of pirates who know how to charm the out of you in their own way.
32:33
You're like, "Oh my god, I just got keft.
32:34
Oh my god, I just got micked. Oh my god."
32:37
You think Ronny's not going to come and be like, "How you doing? You're my guy, right? You're my guy, right?" Like it amazing.
32:45
>> I mean, I it is no secret how much I love that band.
32:47
Everyone loves that band.
32:48
They're everyone's rock band, right?
32:50
there's no one you know that doesn't have their favorite stone songs >> fault now basically.
32:53
So that that doing that album um and the whole process and learning the inner workings of that band, >> the good, the bad, the ugly, the whole thing um and um making the record, traveling all over the world because they have to make it in all different kinds of places and doing on the highest level.
33:14
After that first album was there was a big come down for me a little bit.
33:17
It was like >> feeling the highest feeling I've ever felt.
33:20
Um but yeah, that was a big um that was a big learning process and you know feat to accomplish that I was really proud of and felt really really good about when um it was done and the guys felt really good about >> they're just great sounding record.
33:38
>> It's the most important things that like when as a producer if the artist is happy and they're smiling and they're laughing and if they ask you back that's all you need to know, right?
33:47
That's like that's everything.
33:50
that's everything. yourself >> then you get to say well when I worked on my first stones >> but this speaks to how you how you are perceived and felt by people not just within the band or the artist but the people who love the artist and the band more than anyone else which brings me to Aussie because Aussie is more than just
34:09
um a creative relationship or friendship you know that that is a family relationship you have when it came to paying tribute to Aussie >> you're effectively the musical director of that whole exper experience and I feel like you're almost a de facto part of the trust in terms of how the music gets received perceived going forward. At least it feels like that to me as a
34:28
At least it feels like that to me as a fan.
34:29
So, I mean, this really is an open question.
34:33
You know, some of your prevailing memories and thoughts of working with him and and what it's also like as a as a two-parter to work with people at a point in their life where you know you may be that close to them when their time comes to an end. Oh, >> it's brutal.
34:51
Um, I miss him every day.
34:55
Uh, we both have the same bat tattoo here we got together.
34:57
Um, >> he got it at the same time as you did. >> Yeah, I got it.
35:02
And then he was like, I want that.
35:04
What the And then he he got it after before we go into the serious stuff.
35:09
It reminds me of an amazing Aussie story.
35:11
Um, he was getting the tattoo at my house at the studio that you came to and he's playing harmonica down the basement.
35:19
>> Yeah, he's playing harmonica while he's getting the tattoo and the tattoo artist think >> his job that day is to tattoo a bat on Aussie Osborne.
35:27
It's the most important tattoo he'll ever do in his life. So, he's all ready.
35:31
He's shoulders are relaxed and takes it takes a thing and he's goes to put down >> the needle on Aussiey's HAND AND AUSSIE GOES AND THE GUY literally jumped fell back over his on the floor. The needle's going over.
35:46
There's ink everywhere all over the carpet.
35:49
>> Sometimes the classics are still the best.
35:51
>> And he's just hysterically laughing, crying. >> What a sod. Amazing. I love it. That was him.
35:58
That's him in like in essence like he knows how serious this moment is for this guy and instead he's just going to like make him make him shake.
36:05
Um Azie gave me my first chance to do what I really love to do.
36:12
Um and you talked to us together.
36:15
You talked to him a million times over his career.
36:17
Um >> you you witnessed that what that relationship was like. >> Oh yeah. >> Um between us.
36:23
Um, and >> you were taking calls from Sharon while we were trying to set up the interview, trying to I mean, you know, I felt like you were like, like I said, I felt like you were like the go-between all all elements of the Osborne family.
36:34
>> I talked to her all the time.
36:34
I talked to her this morning.
36:35
Um, >> you know, the thing about Aussie Osborne is if he chose you, if he chose to bring you next to him, your life changed.
36:47
And that has been true so many times in history.
36:51
And look at Randy Rhodess, right?
36:54
>> Zack Wild, >> every guitar player he ever had had a career >> after that.
37:00
>> Um, different people that he worked with.
37:02
>> Um, so um, and Young Bloodood now, right?
37:07
If you look at that that moment, >> of course. Yeah.
37:10
He saw what he saw in Dom, you know, what people probably saw in him at a very young age, which was like, I see this performer who could easily get misunderstood.
37:22
So, I'm going to help create context of what makes this guy special.
37:25
>> Well, they chose changes for him to sing and he sang the hell out of it and that changed everything, right? >> Yeah.
37:32
>> Um, so when Azie chose you, your life changed.
37:36
So, that's how I really felt about that.
37:38
And I'm forever indebted to him and that family.
37:40
Um, and I want to be as well. I love them.
37:43
They're like my, you know, my rock and roll crazy family.
37:49
Um, >> and yeah, making those records with Aussie, I learned so much as well and got to do them with Chad and Duff and my friends and stuff and it felt very, you know, much like a family.
38:00
>> You must feel like Willy Wonka picking up the phone and calling your mates into the studio and like, you're not going to believe who we're working with now.
38:05
Yeah, it's it's a little bit like that. It's fun, you know.
38:07
That's that that's the thing.
38:10
I you know, at the time I when I first started working with Aussie, I had been doing pop >> for a long time. That was my thing. I was a pop producer. I was and I loved it.
38:19
>> Um and when we did that song with Azie and Post Malone because when we were working on Postse second album, he was like, I want to get some features and we decided Aussie would be awesome. That's how that started.
38:30
Then that was like the first real rock album that I produced and you know from there all the other stuff that came after came.
38:38
So it all really started with him.
38:41
>> I want to talk to you about LG.
38:44
You know uh you guys are so perfectly suited.
38:47
I feel your energy like I know Gaga pretty well. >> Yeah. >> I know you well.
38:52
And so you you two are are both very sensitive, empathetic people who have this like unbridled energy, especially when it comes to music and creativity and this like definitive vision.
39:03
Like when she's passionate about something she's made, she's like, "Oh, oh my god, I'm going to play this to you and I'm going to sing it at you and you're going to understand what it means to me." And you're the same.
39:12
Um that last album is all all time.
39:16
It's one of the alltime Gaga records, right?
39:19
I just wanted to I just want to get reviews from the crews, right?
39:23
Um and you and you played a pivotal role, some pivotal moments on that, you know.
39:27
What's that what's that like working with someone who you recognize from an energy point of view?
39:32
>> It's it's something that I've I've shared with her many times.
39:34
Um but I have felt so connected to her before I ever knew her because again, she started at the same bar that I started at. >> Yeah. >> Right.
39:44
So, I was hearing her name before she was known to the world. >> Yeah.
39:50
>> And when she got signed and everything, there was a guy, Kenny, that owned the Bitter End.
39:54
She's no longer with us, but he was like, he made me feel like I could maybe do something because she'd made it out of there.
40:04
>> So, he saw the same thing.
40:04
He saw some similarities in the two. >> Yeah.
40:07
He would always talk to me about her and talk and, you know, you know, Yeah.
40:13
And so, you know, life and music and working in this industry brings you different places.
40:19
Um, and we had talked a couple times and met through Elton just really briefly.
40:26
>> Um, >> I was close to the pitch.
40:31
Um, >> you were >> and uh it's hard to drop a name drop like airhorn on Elton John though when he's the most like beloved like there isn't a musician alive.
40:44
>> Is there anyone that loves you more than that?
40:46
>> Not that you should hear the way he talks about you. >> I love him man.
40:50
He's he is like >> when he makes a song he's like you're one of the first people he needs to hear it.
40:55
You know we worked together Gaga and I for real for the first time on the Stones album.
40:59
and she had been working on the Joker at Hansen >> and Mick had heard that she was there in the studio. Get the button ready. You ready? >> I'm ready. >> Okay.
41:10
I had called Stevie Wonder in to work on the Rolling Stones album.
41:17
>> He's tattooed on my finger. >> Okay.
41:19
I told you he could do it every 5 seconds.
41:20
We're about to go into a serious like named dropping like carnival right now.
41:25
>> This one's crazy though.
41:25
You got to get So, I was out. It was Stevie Wonder. Yeah.
41:29
And then in came Mick Fleetwood and it's like and then it's just >> I got to do it in a British accent.
41:32
Um but it this was a crazy this is one this is probably the craziest day of my life.
41:38
>> Um but so I had asked Stevie to come down and be on the Stones album because we had made a bunch of music together and just became friends.
41:45
Um >> and so he came he was late to the studio that day for a while um because he was voting which Keith really loved.
41:56
That was like his favorite thing. He's like, "Yeah."
42:00
Anyway, um we're recording this song and I guess Gaga's session had ended and she had heard that Mick wanted to say hi to her.
42:07
So, she came into the studio to hang out for a little bit and stayed and watched for a while.
42:12
And there was a lot of people in the room. >> Yeah.
42:17
>> Somehow she went from the control room into the live room.
42:21
>> And somehow, you know, I asked for a microphone.
42:24
We handed her a microphone and she just joined the Stevie Wonder Rolling Stones gem and she brought it.
42:31
She had the lyrics in front of her on the floor right next to Mick.
42:32
She's her backs to Steviey's roads and like I'm on bass and the band's in there and we're just recording this soul ballad called Sweet Sounds of Heaven.
42:43
>> So, she loved that experience.
42:46
And then, you know, Mick and I just kept a really involved, you know, she did another vocal day with Mick where they were singing each other's faces and, you know, doing the whole thing.
42:55
Um, and she was, you know, just kind of sent her the music as the process was going >> and we kind of kept in touch.
43:03
That's how we became friends, a resultsbased thing, right?
43:08
And um when it came time for her to start making another record, her and uh Michael asked me to come over the house in Malibu and we sat together.
43:17
We listened to some stuff that I had made and talked about stuff and we just decided to jump into the studio.
43:24
And once we started, we kind of never stopped.
43:28
>> Um it was a really natural thing.
43:28
There was no like you're going to be the executive producer and you're going to do this and you're going to do that.
43:36
It was just like music started and it didn't stop and it was like there was a certain point where we're like wa this is kind of an album and this can take this shape and this can take that.
43:45
She is as you know a force man.
43:52
>> She's intuitively um aligned to her own um streamline like a portal.
44:00
And for someone who's so deeply focused on detail and world building, I'm always amazed when I spend any time with her and with Michael how they are just look, they are just letting the energy and finding where it's going and catching the wave.
44:16
World building is the exact term because there would be times where we're in the middle of a song and we're writing the lyrics and you're I'm where I am, you are where you are.
44:25
She's at the piano, I'm on the guitar, we're writing lyrics and then she's just gone for a little bit.
44:30
I'm like, she stops talking to me and she's just deep in thought.
44:34
Like, you let her be deep in thought >> and she's like, "Sorry, I just saw what this is going to look like on stage and I just saw the video could be like this and that."
44:43
She >> out of any artist I've ever worked with ever sees the whole picture when she's making something.
44:51
And every step she takes, >> she has that in mind.
44:54
how it's going to feel for her on stage, what the creative is going to look like, what she's going to wear.
45:00
She draws herself in a notebook of what she could look like while she's doing what she's doing.
45:05
She needs to know how she's going to feel so she can understand who's singing.
45:12
And that was one of the coolest things I ever saw in my entire life.
45:15
Her dedication to her art and her fans.
45:18
And you know, you you've heard, you know, different people talk about how like keep the fans out of the room while you're making music and how that you know, that process, >> it's the opposite process.
45:32
Her fans are with her >> in every step that she takes.
45:36
They mean more to her than anything.
45:38
Um, and I think that's why when she drops, >> they go with her. >> Yeah.
45:45
>> You know, anywhere she wants to go.
45:45
She wants to make jazz, they're with her. >> Full reciprocation. >> Yeah.
45:50
Um, there's an album that came out this year I got a chance to talk to thanks to you because you made it and you've always been very kind to me and you always do your best to open the door for me to have those conversations with the people you work with.
45:58
And I I I want to say for the record as well that like you know that is truly appreciated. Not everybody does that.
46:03
They do their job, they go home and that is all they have to do.
46:06
You've always gone above and beyond I really feel like certainly from my perspective in terms of ensuring that this door is open and that you try to tell people they can come in and have a good conversation with us.
46:17
>> Well, you're the best. >> Thank you.
46:18
That's why >> it's important to acknowledge.
46:20
I really >> And you also try and rage bait every artist into talking about how I could, you know, what it's like working with someone in pajamas and uh what it's like having a little young New Yorker in their face saying telling them what to do.
46:34
>> You make it so easy for me when you show up to a pill and hit toe and Gucci.
46:38
>> It's just like it's like it's the greatest paradox of all time.
46:40
It's just like these guys literally are like, "Okay." And here he is. Uh never change.
46:48
Um, Paul, so Paul McCartney, uh, MKA, um, that felt to me based on what you were telling me before the album was finished, like it was, you talked about going where the stones go, figuring out how to just tap in when they're ready, it felt very similar, like Paul was just kind of writing and making music and feeling it out, and you were just figuring out like what it was going to be in real time before you got your head down. >> Oh, yeah.
47:12
I mean, that album was made over the course of five years. >> There you go.
47:16
Um, I never had that before.
47:18
Um, and really we did not talk about we're making an album.
47:22
We're not making an album.
47:23
He first came over my house for a cup of tea.
47:25
He's told that he told that story to you.
47:28
>> Um, and I had lefty guitars that I had rented and I >> wrote that chord.
47:32
>> Well, just in case he wanted to play guitar, I woke up in the middle of the night.
47:35
I'm like, I only have righty guitars.
47:36
What if we might have a cup of tea?
47:38
What if he wants to teach me how to play Blackbird? I got to be ready.
47:41
>> String every single one of them into >> So we had a couple lefty guitars that you picked one up.
47:45
We started making something together.
47:47
That's that's how it goes.
47:49
But Paul Paul's process is completely different than the Stones >> because he is 100enter. He writes everything. He sings everything.
47:59
He writes all the lyrics. Writes all the music. He engineers. He produces. He mixes.
48:07
>> Plays all the instruments.
48:10
It's it's unlike anything else.
48:10
You know, there's Prince, Stevie Wonder, and Paul McCartney in my book that do that on that level.
48:20
>> Um, and so to be around him and watch him play the drums, he'll hit the snare nice and loud.
48:28
He hits the symbols so soft.
48:31
>> And I'm like, I asked him, "How why are you doing that?"
48:34
He's like, "Because when we compress the overheads, you'll hear the snare and the symbols won't get in the way."
48:38
It's like so many years of doing that. He is the producer. >> Yeah.
48:45
He's the producer, right? >> You know. Yeah.
48:47
>> Um so you're watching him arrange background vocals, sit with the guitar.
48:51
He when he records his his harmonies, he's got an instrument in his hand and he's working out the third and the fifth.
48:56
It's all >> That's what I love about that recent documentary that came out.
48:59
realized that all of that experimentation he did out of the out of the framework of the Beatles when he went out into the middle of nowhere in Scotland and was figuring it the out. >> Oh yeah.
49:08
>> That that's when he was like, "Oh that's who I actually am.
49:09
Like I'm I'm in all of it."
49:12
>> And talking to him about, you know, sometimes it's fun to record with a band.
49:16
You get people playing off each other and you get that thing, but you know, when you write songs the way that he he writes, you know, sometimes it's fun to do with a band, but >> he knows what every part should sound like.
49:28
Instead of him having to explain to another musician, no, can you play it more like this? Can you do it like this? Oh, no. I think you could do it.
49:35
It's just him doing it up here.
49:36
He doesn't have to talk to anyone till he gets it right.
49:41
>> How do you encourage that?
49:41
How do you >> Maybe I'm Amazed is played 100% by him.
49:46
Have you ever listened to >> Unbelievable?
49:47
The feel on that song is just unbelievable.
49:49
It's actually kind of almost um it's it almost defies belief that something that feels like that came from one person and not four% five or six% >> cuz that feel normally comes from >> the indefinable chemistry that comes from people just finding their way.
50:08
>> Yeah, >> he found his there's five of him doing that >> and and there's other songs that people do that and other artists that do that and it feels the music feels awesome.
50:16
>> But you're right, Prince is them.
50:17
Prince, Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney, they're the only people that can do that and make you feel like it's >> it's a whole band of people.
50:24
>> He he he played that game on me one time.
50:26
We were at his house or somewhere in a bar somewhere.
50:27
He said, "I want your name."
50:28
Apart from poor McCartney named the two other people who are like McCartney can do it all.
50:32
It was a it was a classic Andrew Watt test, right?
50:34
And I was like, "A I'm going to fail this test.
50:38
So, let me just shoot my shot." My one was not awful. I said Kravitz. >> Amazing. >> But you were right.
50:43
You were like, "But it's he's not Stevie and he's not >> yet." >> Yet, >> right?
50:48
But he's >> I wasn't bad.
50:49
I mean, >> oh, he's amazing.
50:50
Those records, that first record, >> that love roll. >> Unbelievable.
50:54
He's He's on the list for sure.
50:57
>> You haven't done anything with him either, right?
50:58
>> We've we around in the studio a little bit.
51:00
I'm not supposed to say right? >> Yeah. you are. >> Okay.
51:03
We around in the studio a little bit.
51:04
Um, we did a version of Fly Away with Quo, which was cool. Crazy >> together.
51:09
Um, and yeah, we we're good friends.
51:13
We sauna together, which is not really a fun thing to do with. >> I feel bad for you.
51:18
>> Yeah, I've I've really kind of >> feel bad for you.
51:21
>> I hated myself after that. >> That's rough.
51:23
>> Yeah, he's just perfect looking.
51:23
And I, you know, I am 5'7 and Jewish.
51:27
So, >> he came down the stairs at his house in Paris.
51:31
I went to interview him and and and he was like, I don't know, barefoot with flared blue jeans and his tight top on. Hottest guy ever. Maybe. >> Maybe. >> Yeah. >> Right up there. crazy. That guy's got charisma. That guy's got crazy.
51:47
You've been to his house in Paris, right? >> Yeah. hell.
51:49
Now we're all going for it. hell. >> All of it. Gets all of it. Um, all right.
51:59
Man, I mean, we might have to P2, P3, P4 this. It's maybe a series.
52:06
There's so I have so much to talk to you about, man.
52:08
I actually don't even think I've really scratched the surface on process, but I thought as a beginning it would just be good to kind of talk about your experiences and what you brought to these records and what makes them special because of your involvement.
52:20
And I think it's important we talk about Alton. >> Yeah.
52:24
>> Because um you talk about he loves me, man.
52:26
He absolutely adores you.
52:26
And uh I I I think also he recognizes that you have really breathed a new energy into what he loves about making records and doing things.
52:38
Um I think he is the he's probably to me one of if not your greatest success story from a sort of like making someone sound electrifying like he sounds electrifying on these records that you make with him. >> Thanks.
52:52
Um he's become one of my best friends.
52:54
No, it's not like a that's not a joke.
52:56
Um, we talk all day, every day.
52:58
Um, >> I talk to him as much as I talk to my family, right? >> Some days more.
53:07
>> Um, there's a real love there.
53:10
>> Um, there's a love for the person on both sides.
53:13
for someone like him who who you know so well appreciates art and beauty and loves life and loves other people and culture and everything to have, you know, a blindfold over one of his eyes. It's not fair.
53:34
>> It's not It's not >> It's brutal.
53:35
>> It's just doesn't make um spiritual sense to me.
53:39
So, it was it's very important for me for him to be making music um when when he wants to, which he does.
53:49
>> Um and getting into the studio um you came and heard some recent stuff that we did. >> Um crazy. But he gets in there.
53:55
He is like, you know, like I like to think like Paul and Marty's like Mozart and Elton's like Beethoven, you know, like he like watch out when he's in there.
54:10
>> Do you remember that day when I came in off the back of the pool conversation, you took us into the studio and Elton and we were just going to like hang out and see the room and you were about to do some work with Elton, some music, and Elton came in a little early. Yeah. Yeah.
54:21
>> And just rolled in and I'm there with Paul and you and then Elton comes in and it's like, oh This has all of a sudden become a real thing.
54:29
>> This is no longer just like, hey, you like my studio?
54:31
This is like a memory happening right now.
54:33
And how quickly they slotted into, hey, go yourself or go yourself.
54:37
They just they slotted into like early 20s just ripping each other in the funniest way. >> Yeah.
54:45
Yeah, you got to think those guys have known each other since the 60s and 70s, you know, and they're still still here making music and competitive with each other and friends and taking care of each other in many different ways.
54:58
But yeah, Elton is is has used what he is, you know, the challenge that he has in his life right now it to kick its ass.
55:07
like he is playing better, singing better, >> making going to other places in his music and I think he's making the best music that he has made in a really long time. >> I agree.
55:22
The new should you play me was mind-blowing.
55:23
It's going to blow you away.
55:24
>> That's the power of music.
55:24
That is the power of music.
55:27
It can it can make you, you know, feel feel alive in a way that nothing else can.
55:35
>> I've got a couple of minutes just to talk about the vault. Your vault.
55:36
What what you have in your vault that people haven't heard? I can't even imagine.
55:44
>> Do you go and listen to stuff >> all the time? All the time.
55:46
Um yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff you you got to get time to kind of work on all of it. Um figure it out.
55:56
But uh that's it's part of the process keeping stuff close to the vest, right? >> Man, I love you. >> I love you.
56:07
Thank you for the music and the friendship, man. Thanks for coming in.
56:10
It's the first time we've done anything like this. >> I know. >> Properly.
56:12
So, I >> I appreciate you making the time. >> Anytime.