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How are you? >> I'm doing fantastic.
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>> It's weird to see my face on that. >> Hi. How are you? I'm Alex. >> Alex. Everybody. >> Hello. [cheering] >> Hey, man.
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It's a lot more people in here. >> Yeah.
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Well, you brought a good crew as well. We have a good crew.
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It's a nice little festive kind of holiday vibe going on in this room, right? >> I know. I love the sweater. >> Thanks, man. You look good as well. >> Thank you so much.
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I I just rushed over here.
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I've [clears throat] been in traffic for the last like two hours. >> Yeah. Sorry about that. >> You didn't do it. >> True.
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But appreciate the effort you coming in, man.
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I mean, look, I wouldn't be surprised if you got to the end of the kind of 18 months that you've had um just specifically on the music and just decided to take stock and just decided to take a step back and sort of reflect and just think about that.
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I know you're a reflective guy.
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>> I can hear it in your music. >> Oh, thank you.
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>> Um but you've come to talk to us and uh so, you know, the first question for me to you is how do you feel at the end of 2025?
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Alex, >> I feel really cool. You're right.
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I have I I am a reflective guy.
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I haven't had time to reflect yet and I'm really really scared but excited to.
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I think um I think the last 8 months of my life or like you said 18 months have been non-stop go and I'm excited to have a moment with my wife and my dogs and hang out. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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You said you were scared to and that's totally normal and natural and I've heard that from artists who have been in the kind of um you know tumble dry that you've been in where all your dreams come true at once.
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Um >> where does that word sort of scared come into play for you?
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What would kind of be fearful for you when you actually think about what you've achieved in the last 18 months?
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>> This is so nice cuz you've talked to probably everyone and anyone in this situation ever?
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>> Um, I think it's scary because it's everything I've ever wanted.
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And growing up the way I did, everything I've ever wanted has been ripped away from you in different ways.
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And so it's kind of a a scary thing that I think that once I sit down and um I appreciate or I get the word is comfortable but I don't think that's the right thing.
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I think if I just sit down and really >> faith maybe have faith it's going to be okay.
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>> Maybe I think just in general just look back and be like wow I did it tends to be a lot of times that those things leave. Um so it's scary. >> Yeah.
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and also did what right at the end of the day like you're doing it.
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And I think and I think you know we set goals for ourselves as people because they seem so out of reach >> but when you actually start to taste it you realize that it's the tasting is the most important thing.
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It's not actually the achievement.
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It's the kind of getting up getting to do it. >> Yeah. 100%.
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It's it's weird kind of looking at it cuz I was a fan first watching people play and hearing the music and then kind of being in this seat now.
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It's strange, but also really cool to kind of think have that like it's almost like a different helmet in a way.
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You kind of look at it in a different perspective, especially being a fan first and then going into this exact situation.
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Like being a fan and wanting to feel loved and feel that attention and then becoming the artist, you kind of realize what it's like to be on the other side of it.
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And so it's been really cool trying to uh navigate but balance that as well.
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>> I'd like to talk to Alex the fan for a while. >> Hit me with it.
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Um because you know people got to know you as as the entertainer, the person who who made them laugh or made them made them sing things or do things.
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You know you used the internet like many of your generation in a really clever way.
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You realized it was a tool that was in your hands and you could make something with it.
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>> Um but before that you discovered music and you discovered music that moved you and and set you on this path.
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So what was the music that moved you as a kid? >> So funny.
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I've had a really rocky relationship with music. Funny enough.
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I growing up, my dad knew he was dying and so he wanted to speedrun all those moments with his kids and he loved Rascal Flats and Cold Play and um all these different I I I feel like Train.
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It was just all these different like um songs. >> Yeah.
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His biggest thing is he knew he was dying and so he gravitated towards music that um that would give us a sense of light at the end of it.
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And so this song that stuck with me a long time was My Wish by Rascal Flats.
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And it was a song we used when he passed away.
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And it's just >> um yeah, my life with music [snorts] has been all those old remembrances.
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And then once he died, music kind of disappeared.
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Uh my mom wasn't very musically um inclined in any sense.
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And >> was it hard for you to to listen to to to music in the same way knowing that it had been such an important part of the connection between you and your dad?
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>> I didn't pick up a guitar for a long time.
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I I also didn't understand it.
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I just knew that what my life my life and music where my dad and music were synonymous for me.
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You know, I listened to music in the car with my dad.
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And when I didn't have my dad driving me, it was silence.
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And you know, it's such a strange thing looking back at it, you don't really think about.
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So, yeah, I didn't pick it back up until I started grieving and understanding what that feeling was.
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And that was a huge moment for music for me.
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And so, you listen to my songs and you kind of wonder what those inferences are.
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And a lot of times, it's just the music I grew up listening to.
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>> Very honest writing, too. I can hear it in you.
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I mean it really it's a it's a it's definitely a process for you.
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Um you know and it may entertain others but I really do hear it in your words.
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I mean you know I think about first time on earth.
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I think about a song like that.
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I mean that is literally >> I mean that as a listener I take from that is a a form of like you making peace. >> Yeah. My mom and I Yeah.
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My mom and I never had closure.
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Uh she was suffering an addict.
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She was an addict her entire life. But I cut her off.
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life. But I cut her off. I did the one thing that every single person who um dreads with an addict in their life and I cut her off and I had a moment of realization that it was my mom's first time on earth and I can't imagine the situation she had in raising us and all
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these different things alone and in 2008 2009 when a recession happened and couldn't afford the lifestyle that my dad had built for us and um I [clears throat] had texted her trying to remediate that and trying to become close with my mom again and uh I texted her and uh she had uh she had passed away at that moment. Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, I'm so sorry. >> It's it's it's weird.
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It's such a strange thing.
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Grief and and loss and all those different things.
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And so, you mentioned First Time on Earth.
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I >> that was I cry in almost all my sessions.
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I write with the same people.
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I have a connection and a bond with these guys.
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And >> um they they're very open. They're very honest.
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They allow me to fully kind of like feel these things. I forget these things. I >> push these away.
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And when I come to write songs, I fully just allow it to happen. And I love my music.
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I listen to it all the time and I cry all the time. I don't do therapy.
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I write songs and I listen to them. >> It's for you, right?
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I mean, at the end of the day, I think that we're getting this round the wrong way with music, especially right now.
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>> Uh we think that it's it's a destination for others, some kind of achievement to just create really quickly, especially the way things are going.
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And I think people are ignoring the fact that art gets made because people need to say something and find something out about themselves.
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>> I think that's why criticism is so difficult for me.
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I think a lot of times, especially with the success of >> Alex, it's not good for anybody.
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[laughter] No one likes it. >> Yeah.
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But no, I think the success of Ordinary especially put it on this thing where like people, you know, obviously that one song was written for my wife and so that everyone kind of goes, you know, and and critiques every single thing.
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And I think art is obviously supposed to be critiqued.
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I think it's difficult because they're not like pitch songs.
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They're not um they're not records I'm writing trying to make TikTok viral.
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Uh they're songs that I wrote in my bedroom most of the time with my friends trying to go get over the loss of my mom and dad. Yeah.
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>> And so it's such a strange thing with it cuz obviously it's art.
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I'm putting it out in the world for people to judge.
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I think it's just every time I see someone, I swipe immediately. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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No, it's smart because at the end of the day, mate, I mean that's that's you know that the internet will have its way and and we only get to exposed to so much on a daily basis because we become very adept at being able to take what we can when we can and move on with what we need to do.
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And so it's very easy for someone like me to not really get too familiar with your music initially because of where you came from and what people are saying.
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And then I go and I go, "Hang on, no, that's not my job.
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My job and what I love to do is listen to music.
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I'll go and listen to the songs."
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And I'm like, >> "Oh, no, that's not what that is.
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This guy's a real writer.
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>> He's writing about his life." Like, it's honest. It's truthful. Yeah.
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>> People are responding to the truth.
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They're not responding to your point.
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It's not like you made you you jumped from Tik Tok to music. People have tried that.
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It doesn't work very well. >> Yeah. >> Do you write songs?
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>> I've tried really hard to.
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I think there's obviously, you know, because I I technically did transition from that profession before.
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I have been writing music my entire life, >> but I think because that was the only no one really saw that side of me.
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I definitely had to um give it a certain sense of light in that sense.
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Like I I went and did music theory lessons for a long time.
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I I didn't grow up listening to a lot of music because of that relationship with my my dad.
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And so I really try my best to kind of expose myself to music I wouldn't normally listen to or haven't.
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You know, I have really amazing friends.
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One of them you know is Gigi Perez.
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>> Coolest person in the world, but she knows my inept [clears throat] ability to listen to music.
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She'll reference things and I'm like I don't know who that is.
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And I feel like it's the biggest imposter syndrome in the world is I truly want to know all these things and people always talk about these influences on stuff and I I obviously want to get better as a musician.
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And so she makes me a playlist and it's the coolest thing ever.
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And she puts like these really cool names on that I'm I'm just now listening to for the first time and you know it's something weird like trying to kind of like be like oh wow I need to listen to this and see what I like from it and what I don't and judge music instead of I think >> you know judge it in a way of like oh why do I like this and why don't I like this instead of before I would just like it and I didn't know why.
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Well, also you you've both been through at a very young age that that very unique um you know experience of of of loss of of of having to grieve you know the loss of someone you care about.
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And I wonder whether that helps both of you sort of keep this whole internet chatter and all this nonsense in perspective because at the end of the day, what does it really matter what people think of you? >> No, 100%.
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She's the musician I think I've always wanted to be and it's been really cool to like have a she's so cool.
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cool. Like I think like she's one of those people where like you know you you'll see musicians and sometimes they may put on an act like they're some you know musician who's mysterious and wants to know everything about these
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underground artists and then I think one of those people who lives it where she's very much into this different alternative type of music and she's kind of a nice sounding board for me where I can go like please show me these things. I think every artist when they aspire to
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I think every artist when they aspire to be something I think they're just uh doing a great emulation of Gigg Press.
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I also just watching her work in a studio is the coolest thing ever.
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And I think like you know anyone who ever gets the opportunity to do that is really cool.
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I mean I I've heard of all the stories where she's just so she has such a brain for it I think and like the different al melodies that she'll do and >> her melodic range is ridiculous.
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>> her melodic range is ridiculous. and also her ability to be able to chamele she she chameleonizes that a word is now chameleonizes her voice in a in a really great way where it doesn't detach itself from what you love about her but she's I see her exploring range right now in a big way
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>> there's such an obvious melody you could follow in an you know an opposing harm and and everything that would go well with eternity and she didn't do that she did the thing that makes GG Press GG Press and I think that's such a musical >> um geniusness to it I also love how she produces her own stuff you know she knows how to do all things. She's very,
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She's very, you know, watching us sound check and with me I was still getting used to ins at the time and I was like, "Oh, well, can I this sounds this way. I can do this."
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And she goes, "He wants this.
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He wants this to sound like this."
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And she goes in and she goes, "I want my I want verb down three.
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I want it's giving us vibes, >> dude."
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She's like telling them which what what frequency to to compress her vocal at or like to take out.
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And I'm like, "This is insane."
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Like you you are >> you know what you're doing.
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And I I truly it's it's really sick.
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She reminds me of Buckley, who you may not be familiar with, which is why I need to send you a playlist as well. >> Please, I need it.
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>> But Jeff Buck, she reminds me a bit of Jeff Buckley. >> Okay.
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Just, you know, Jeff Buckley. [laughter] >> Okay. Thank God for that.
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No, but [laughter] I think I think it's also cool being in like and I have to say I've been a fan of your show of just like especially seeing clips and it's so cool cuz watching as a consumer and not really it's kind of like oh wow you can get
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that out of an artist the way you speak and the way you communicate but and I'm like oh like I'm going to come in and then you do it and I'm like wow you can't even think you just tell them how you feel and there's no filter. I just
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I just go where I'm invited, man.
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You know, you know, I can tell you're you're a really open human being and um >> I try.
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>> Well, I just I the thing I really like I really It's a strange thing to like.
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So, I'll say one of the things I admire about you is that you've clearly done the work and you found a way for it to work for you and um >> what you've been through the loss of two parents and you know um that that there's there's a connection there.
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You know that that they loved each other. They they had children.
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you had a family and for one reason or another you lost one parent then you lost another parent that's really tough and when you talk about grief the importance of grief >> um man it's it's it's such a powerful tool if you know where it is and how and when to use it in order to move forward with your life >> it's also something no one talks about I think everyone skimps over grief and it's the one things no one wants to
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bring a room down no one wants to talk about it everyone wants to get over I mean my entire childhood I I wanted to just forget about it hence why I forget so many things about my myself as a child and I remember the one thing is there was never any music that I could relate to in that sense of when I played piano or when I listened to music, I was singing about something I cared about. It was never about, you know,
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It was never about, you know, a random I couldn't relate to like the rap songs.
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I couldn't relate to a lot of things, but I could relate to ballads.
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I could relate to someone singing about loss and I would always make a breakup song about like I would sing it in the way of losing my dad.
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And so when I went to write music and and kind of be that songwriter for the first time in my life, I wanted to um I wanted to fill that hole that I felt there was.
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And so it's been I mean the first few songs were absolutely terrible.
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And I was using the basic four chords capo on three and just ripping off Shawn Mendes Stitches chords for the longest time.
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And once you figure it out, which is so funny to think about.
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Um, but yeah, once you figure it out and kind of get in the groove, it's been really cool to kind of um understand what goes into making a song, but also how you feel from that. >> Yeah.
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Well, you have the right team around you.
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I feel that you also found a sound that really works for your storytelling as well. I love them so much.
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I feel like they really nurture your writing.
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>> Um, there's a lot of times when you listen to music and you're like, "Okay, the production and the song are competing for each for attention."
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And a great artist can can both, >> right?
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can can have one foot on on in one in both rooms, but for you, I feel like the music is really just there to bring us in to the emotion and the feeling you're trying to create.
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>> It's been so cool being able to work with them as well because I did the whole speed dating thing for a long time.
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As you probably know, when you work with artist way, yeah, it's heavy.
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>> It's nice because with them, I don't have to try or I don't have to try to be this cool musician.
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this cool musician. I can say the stupidest like we always go dare to suck and we always just say it and we say a really terrible idea and it's so it's also it's nice to know that like you know in a team project it is not all just one person like I none of these
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songs would be anything without them truly I mean that from the bottom heart I'm not trying to be some cool whatever truly like it's really cool where like with ordinary and all these different records how they came to be and how many accidents had to happen for them to to come to fruition. And I mean like
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And I mean like ordinary alone like the opening verse is they say the holy water's watered down is because we were trying to make a coffee machine work at a um at a at a Airbnb that we were working in and it was watered down and so we just put that in as a joke or return me to dust is cuz we all got dust poisoning from this one studio.
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And so like it's just been a thing of just everyone throwing in jokes and terrible ideas and then we come up with this product that we love so much.
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>> But you but you're still an adult, a man of faith.
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And I love you know it's interesting to me how you're able to connect the two.
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you're able to take a look at your surroundings and the things that may just seem very colloquial to you and your friends and make you giggle a little bit, but it always brings you back to God to some degree.
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There's a there's a there's a filter there that you kind of you can't escape, right?
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>> Well, like music and like >> you want to, but you know what? >> Yeah. Yeah.
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With music and faith, it's always just been a battle my entire life.
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And I think with me, especially losing my parents, >> why why why music and faith?
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>> When you watch your parents pass away in front of you, I think anyone in their right mind would go, well, if God existed, why would he do that to me?
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>> You know, and I think my entire life I battled with that.
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And as time has gone on and and this may just be my own thinking and I maybe it's my way of being okay with the things that have happened to me.
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I have really just realized that the things that I've gone through have been able to put me in a position where I can be what I needed when I was a kid.
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You know, I wanted I'm meeting all these people, playing these shows, and being able to write these songs.
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I've been able to see the real life impact of it.
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And that's been the most important thing to me is being able to I went through all these feelings.
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I had no idea what it was like to grieve or what I was supposed to feel like.
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There's no book about it.
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But the one thing is everyone tells you it get gets better or you you move on from it.
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And the one thing I learned is you don't you will always be missing that part of you.
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And so writing these songs and being able to tell my story, I've watched it firsthand give other people a sense of sanctity in that way.
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And I think that's what I was me meant to do.
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I was supposed to be put on this earth to do.
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And that's been my relationship with faith is just being able to understand that the things that I've gone through and the things that I've endured and the the positions I've been put in is why I'm here today and what I'm supposed to do.
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And it's a weird rocky relationship as I had to lose the two most important people in my life to achieve the thing that I've always wanted. Boy, what a what a ride. Um so fascinating.
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I'm so past this whole weird distinction between people using the internet and then discovering some part of that experience and then zeroing in on it and making it their life's work.
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I don't play that game anymore.
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We all went through that in the beginning where it was like, "Oh yeah, sure.
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YouTube is making music, whatever."
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That was a long time ago.
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I think now it's it's very clear that young people realize the internet is their tool.
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>> It's an entrepreneurial tool. You should use it.
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Finding an audience is a really positive and powerful thing to do for independence and autonomy because no one can push you around when you've got fans that like you. >> Yeah.
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>> And you know, it's the order of things.
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So, I want to applaud you and Addison, all the other people who have made that. >> Love her. >> Yeah.
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I mean, she did it the right way.
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>> She's she's someone I I think is inspiring.
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I've also told her this to her face, too.
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I just think it's really cool.
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And and we've had moments where we've sat down and I've just been like, "Look at how crazy this was."
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Like, we were both 19 years old when we started doing this.
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social media thing and the growth and um personality development entirely, you know, has been really cool and it's I'm stoked that we're still close, too.
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>> Yeah, that's really nice because I mean it was ahead of time and I know the stuff that I mean I also I'm a fan of Zach.
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I really like what Zach does and I know you have a good relationship with him and >> you guys had a pretty pretty clear conversation about um you know what that era was and where the division is and what you kind of and can't talk about.
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But with the with the benefit of distance and some hindsight, looking back on those years where it was just you and a bunch of young people trying to figure it out, >> what comes to mind? What comes to heart?
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>> Um, it it's looking back and and I've had plenty of conversations about it's it's really cool.
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I think it's been it's a weird situation to look at and I don't think anyone understands that type of situation and you know what what we went through and also the positives of it is so sick.
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like and I was we were all kids, you know, that was our college that was our college years and we we spent it living in houses and and making content and whatever you want to call it.
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And um I think what's really cool is we've been able to maintain relationships since then.
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Like you know, I've I've I check on them pretty regularly and we all kind of, you know, when we're in the same towns, we grab dinner, we go to each other's shows.
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I just think it's just it's such a cool full circle moment.
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And 5 years ago, if you had asked me, we'd be here today. It's pretty nuts.
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Well, in 10 years from now, maybe even sooner, the way that the world works, there's a fascinating story to be told.
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Um, depending on where everyone goes in their life and turns out, >> also just there everyone's so like the humility of everything, you know.
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I I I've walked in to different rooms and been greeted in different ways and it's been really cool to kind of, you know, talk to especially Addison that that girl always has a smile on her face and everything's very genuine.
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And um when we were both nominated for a Grammy, I facetimed her and it was such a cool moment of just like we sat there for like probably 10 minutes and we're just like what the >> it was so cool and it was we all facetimed each other like somber.
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It was like a whole like hourong group FaceTime thing that we were just it it's really cool.
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A lot of people on the internet love to like be like no it's this person and this person all of us are just >> No, I think you're a really important generation for that.
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I really do because you've broken down that that that that boundary.
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I think you know compartmentalization worked at well it worked before the internet became such a useful and powerful tool for kids to actually make business. >> Yeah.
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You know, it it was a game before.
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Then it became like, no, this is actually a genuine tool.
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And I started to notice it sort of 10, 15 years ago when the scissors and the Kendricks and the Tylers, you know, and and people like that were like Tyler and Odd Future.
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I mean, they started the whole thing.
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They were like, we can use this thing >> and actually go out there and create, find our audience, and then who Tyler is today versus who he was back then, which has been a point of discussion recently.
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But I mean he is just like he was trying to get attention being a kid and now he's out there and he's selling our festivals.
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He's our artist of the year.
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He's basically a musical diplomat in my opinion. He's incredible.
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>> School is so accessible too.
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I think growing up especially you looked at the music industry as a scary unknown place where everyone's controlling something and now it's just anyone can post a video on the internet. anyone.
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>> You could be of any profession, of any um nationality, of any uh you know, you could be rich, you could be poor, you could be this and that.
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You just post a video on the internet and singing and something could happen and it's this beautiful moment that I think it becomes super accessible to people who had it. >> Is it fleeting?
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Is there a time when you when you start to land where you have been trying to get to >> and things slow down a little bit and you realize my relationship with that is has changed.
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I don't need to be so active on that.
21:33
Can you can you change the nature of your relationship with the internet now?
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You no longer need it as much. >> Yes.
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I I was posting on it almost like my life depended on it and I still do.
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I think it's now just been a moment where I I that's such an interesting question. Oh my god. Yeah.
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Cuz when I was homeless, but also even then coming out of that, I never wanted to go back to that.
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So I would just post obnoxiously.
21:56
Like if you look at my I mean when Ordinary went up, we posted probably 75 to 100 times just to get that song going and to prove to the label that I this was the right record to go with.
22:06
I fought so hard for that dang song and I'm so happy I did cuz here we are.
22:12
>> But um no, yeah, that is such a great question.
22:14
I still view it as it's a life or death situation.
22:16
I still post all the time and that's something a lot of people probably look at and they're like, "Oh, well, you know, it's a Tik Tok artist in some sense."
22:23
And I I think there's a um a value to it and there's also a value of being able to not post everything.
22:29
So I think it's just been like figuring out what I want to talk about and now it's just moments where I just talk about my music and my amazing friends and >> um I literally will post my story and just be like if you don't love GG Perez, get out of here or something like that.
22:41
I'll just be like so random after a conversation.
22:44
>> Well, life is a long time and you know there are some pretty important life-changing things that I'm sure you're looking forward to along the way which may kind of deviate your you know the amount of time you spend on there.
22:51
having kids will definitely you'll be like, "Wow, >> post or like go play with my kids.
22:54
I'm going to play with my kids."
22:55
You [laughter] know what I mean?
22:56
It's like, "I'm not going to post right now." You know? >> I hear it. Yeah.
22:59
I'm excited to have kids.
23:00
I think my whole life I've been destined to be a father.
23:03
>> You know, you um I I think I can probably say this based on what I've read about you and heard you say in other interviews that uh your wife kind of arrived kind of like an angel, right?
23:14
She sort of came at the right time in your life and really sort of helped you at a time when you were probably looking for some direction and some faith in things.
23:22
>> Everyone in my life was fleeting and that was something where I was sleeping in a car and I she [snorts] was like, "Okay, let's do it."
23:29
Dropped out of college, had $500 to her name, and [gasps] >> just did it. Did it was really crazy.
23:34
I I living off that and and and having a partner and a companion through it.
23:38
I was homeless for about a month before she had joined me.
23:41
And you know, funny enough, we was only homeless for like another 2 months after that and we posted a video together and it was um immediately people liked it.
23:52
>> And I saw that as a opportunity to do what I love, which is funny cuz around that time every night I would go find a 24-hour fitness or a a shower of some sort and sing covers and post that on TikTok.
24:02
You like scroll all the way down.
24:04
That's just me in like different public restrooms singing, trying to get a good acoustics and become a singer.
24:09
And then I posted a video with my wife or girlfriend at the time, now my wife.
24:13
Um, and um, it blew up and I thought that was my moment to get out.
24:18
>> Do you guys reflect on those times at all? Do you think back?
24:19
Do do you try to create a timeline for yourselves even just in moments of solitude and and privacy where you were able to just acknowledge how far you've come given where where you started? >> We'll have moments.
24:28
We just uh we were just fortunate enough to buy our own first house, our own house, and >> thank you.
24:33
Um, and we we sat there in the driveway uh at night and I just gotten off tour and we're literally I have my hand around her and we're looking at the house and I just look over I go, "What the?"
24:43
[laughter] And she was like, "Dude, I know.
24:46
I can't stop thinking about it."
24:48
I was like, "What the heck happened?"
24:49
Like the last 5 years have just been and um it was very emotional.
24:55
I get emotional thinking about it.
24:57
And you played First Time on Earth, which was probably didn't put me in the [laughter] words. >> Yeah. Yeah.
25:00
No, I did think about it.
25:00
I was like, "But you know, man."
25:02
is like we're we're we'll be okay. >> No, it's the best. I think it's cool.
25:04
I I feel like you probably relate to this too is you know, you don't really get a lot of time to reflect on your emotions and certain sense of that.
25:11
And I think it's um it's crazy. It's so strange.
25:16
>> I I really try to now. I never used to.
25:20
And now I really try to reflect on that.
25:22
>> I want to get to that point. I really do.
25:23
>> No, I >> I'm just terrified. >> Yeah.
25:26
Well, that's totally fair.
25:26
And everyone's journey is different.
25:28
And there's times when it's scary doing that.
25:32
It's times when you go to places you don't want to go to and think about things that really make you emotional and stuff, but man, you know, I make playlists for that >> Send them to me. >> Yeah, you got it.
25:43
>> I need a I need a good cry. >> You good at math? >> Am I good at math?
25:47
>> Yeah, >> I would like to.
25:48
I dropped out of high school, but I'd like to think it's my strong suit. I'm good with patterns.
25:52
>> Should I give you some patents? >> Sure.
25:54
Top selling song released in 2025 in the United States by total units. >> Oh god. >> Ordinary. >> Three times platinum.
26:04
Uh top Billboard top 100 chart longer than any other song by a solo artist this year with 10 weeks.
26:08
Broke the record is the longest running consecutive chart topping song by a solo artist in the US top 40 at number one with 16 weeks and broke the seven-year-old charting record previously held by Elvis Presley is the longest running top single in the UK. >> Holy. >> You know what, man? drop one on. >> It's crazy. >> It's crazy.
26:28
>> It's so It's so weird to hear that, too, because I I try my best to kind of not be told those things just >> smart. >> Well, I don't know.
26:34
I I I think it like it's it's one thing to like have that I I again that song I wrote it about coming out of homelessness and meeting my wife and like that's the the thing that mattered to me and obviously this stuff is freaking awesome, but it's just been cool to like see the I don't want to be disconnected too much from the song. >> Fair enough.
26:52
But you knew it was special because you said you posted a lot to get the label to understand the thinking behind it. >> Yeah.
26:58
I I had we had written the song in December of last year and so it's just crazy.
27:02
What's it It's hasn't even been a year since we wrote it.
27:04
So we wrote it December 13th and when I had written it, we played it for the label and I thought it was so special and um they had their eyes set on a different record and I was like trust me this is the song.
27:15
I even started sending it around to like you know radio people and stuff being like this is the song.
27:19
just kind of like being like cultivating it and um still nothing.
27:24
And so I was like, "Okay, cool.
27:25
I'm just going to post it on TikTok, make it viral, and you won't have any choice."
27:28
And for the first two weeks, it flopped. Absolutely.
27:30
No one cared about ordinary.
27:33
It was a it was a a mess.
27:33
And I had posted four times a day to it, just trying everything, trends, everything I could, coming up with different ways to get people engaged with it.
27:44
I would look at algorithms and look at when people dropped off and trying my best to just get this song cuz I knew it was special.
27:49
I I felt a special way and I'm my biggest critic.
27:52
>> Um and then Tik Tok was getting banned and so it was one day right before Tik Tok got banned.
27:57
I said, um, and this was the coolest thing is, you know, my wife had been reading books and a lot of my friends were getting into that fourth wing series and all those different books.
28:05
And I said, "Book talk, find this song."
28:06
And, uh, since Tik Tok's getting banned tomorrow, blew [clears throat] up. Tik Tok gets banned.
28:10
And I go, "Well, that was it. That was a great try."
28:13
Right when right when Tik Tok gets banned, my song finally does well.
28:14
And, uh, Tik Tok comes back the next day. I'm on a plane.
28:18
I post to it again, and it blows up. And I was like, "Whoa."
28:20
And I kept going every day since then.
28:22
So, ever since Tik Tok was banned and came back, it did well after that one book talk thing.
28:26
And it's I I owe ordinary success to them. >> Yes.
28:30
And also to an acute understanding about what it takes to modern market music.
28:34
You know, you know, you you didn't sit there and go, "Okay, I know it's special.
28:38
I'll just let life take its to take its take its its path and what will be will be or I'm going to pivot to another song or do any of those other things that many of us would do."
28:48
>> But you stuck it out and you found a way.
28:50
And I think one of the biggest criticisms that people have about releasing music these days when you're an artist is how do I get my music in front of an audience?
28:55
You had an audience, but it still wasn't connecting.
28:59
>> So, what did it tell you about what really makes the connection between the song and the and and the fan these days?
29:07
>> I truly I would listen to that song and I just had a feeling like and I I think it's such a copout and I just know that like when so many people will post a video and it won't do well.
29:16
They'll post a week for a week and seven videos and it won't do well and 12 videos and it won't do well.
29:22
And then the label will be like, "Oh, well, let's just pivot. Let's move on."
29:24
Because it's their investment.
29:26
And the artist will feel like all of a sudden that their art doesn't matter.
29:30
The artist will feel as if their music doesn't mean anything.
29:34
The artist will feel as if they had failed in some way.
29:35
And >> well, and a really important change happens too if I can add, which is that, you know, all of a sudden your instinct becomes their instinct. >> 100%.
29:42
And it becomes this thing of like I think for me at least I'm I will never really stop promoting a song. I will never pivot. I've never pivoted. I will never pivot.
29:51
I think that if you truly believe in your song and I love again I listen to my own music.
29:55
I feel like many artists don't admit that >> even though they do.
29:59
Um for me I will sit in a car and I will listen to it every time and if I listen to it 30 times am I still into that?
30:06
And I am then I mean it means I like it and it's I like it enough to put it out.
30:10
And if it's telling a story I want to tell.
30:12
And so I think marketing in its own sense is it own art.
30:16
Used to be not the burden on the artist.
30:17
It used to be the burden on whoever was putting the record out and distributing it.
30:20
And now the burden is on the artist.
30:22
You as an artist now have to market the record. And it sucks.
30:24
And some people can get away with it.
30:25
Some people don't have to market it and whatnot.
30:28
And I think for me at least in the way that I've been perceived on the internet and how I try to keep it extremely um transparent with a lot of people and my fans and the people who listen to the music, I feel as if I need to be promoting the music.
30:40
It wouldn't work if the label was promoting the music.
30:43
I'm not a mysterious musician.
30:44
I'm not this person who's going to sit here and tell you all these um crazy mysterious underground artists I listen to.
30:51
>> You probably wouldn't even be here if you were.
30:52
>> My point I just think it's like it's a different type of person.
30:54
And for me, I have to promote the music and I love it.
30:58
I like promoting the music.
30:58
I like the challenge of trying to get people on board with a song that I truly love and they haven't heard. Think about that.
31:04
You have to get someone on board with a 15-second snippet of a song. That's a challenge.
31:09
they aren't being because when you listen to a song, it's a story.
31:12
You listen from the beginning to the end and you're you're taken into this world that isn't your own and all of a sudden you have to pretty much summarize it into 15 seconds, tell everyone what the story is, you're taking the art out of it in a certain sense.
31:22
So I think creating another art around it and that's with content creation itself, whether you create a cool video or you try to get people to watch the whole thing and get them excited for the record and all of a sudden it's like a trailer.
31:33
It's the same thing as a movie trailer is a snippet on TikTok.
31:35
And they always do highlight reels of the of the movie to get people enticed.
31:39
And for me, I just do different videos with the song in the back to show you the energy it may have or to show you the feeling it may provoke or to give you an idea of what you might feel when you listen to that song.
31:50
And if you can listen to a snippet 30 times, you're going to listen to the full thing.
31:54
>> It took me a while to get my head around it.
31:55
And it was kind of a tough transition for me, you know, being someone who played songs on the radio for a long time and, you know, videos on my MTV2 show and felt like, you know, we were able to give music a chance to tell its own story and then it became like, nah, it's too competitive and there's too much.
32:08
It became the attention currency as we know and not so much the music currency.
32:12
And the music had to fit into the attention currency.
32:13
And by the way, that's about to get a whole lot more sticky and a whole lot weirder uh in the days and weeks, probably months as a stretch to come.
32:22
>> Um, it's going to get intense.
32:22
And and my thing is always like, look, the tool's the tool.
32:26
It doesn't matter whether you're sampling from an original record or you're taking a splice sample.
32:31
It doesn't matter whether you're promoting it for 15 seconds on the internet or using the radio to do it for 3 minutes. It's still a tool.
32:37
>> Uh where it gets tricky for me is um when it it it no longer becomes a tool that's actively able to be used and it just becomes a um a button that you press.
32:48
>> I also feel like this [laughter] I fully agree with you.
32:50
I also think >> I'm really worried that we're about to enter into probably one of the great probably the the the greatest plagiarism exercise in the history of art.
32:57
>> I think it's terrifying.
32:57
I also I've said this for a long time but it's >> No, but it's true.
33:00
I think also like what I love about certain artists too and and what I what I like about art in itself is imperfect.
33:06
Like when you go and watch a live live show that person is not singing fully on even with autotune like they're not always singing perfectly on like and that's the one thing that like I feel like you get the emotion out of it.
33:17
You could watch so many people don't know pitch.
33:18
They don't know all these different things is when they watch someone perform a live song. >> That's greatness.
33:23
>> They're just thinking whether it sounds good to them and they it invokes a reaction.
33:27
>> Dude, I watched the Uber Eats ad for the NFL the other day when Bradley Cooper asked the player to not say cook it or put it in the oven.
33:34
And he does it and he puts a nuance on the end where he goes, "Don't don't say put it in the oven."
33:38
And he does this thing with his face at the end of it that only Bradley Cooper can do.
33:41
And I rewound it and watched it just for that tiny little fraction of a facial thing that he does that makes me go I love him as an actor cuz he made me watch an Uber Eat ad and it was so believable. I can't get that.
33:55
>> I wish I had an accent.
33:55
Your passion just makes me [laughter] envy envy how cool you sound right now.
33:59
I feel like this is tropical in some sense.
34:02
Um >> aggressively humanell and I do I I worry about it too.
34:07
I'm also like I'm so confused by it.
34:09
That's the one thing that I have no idea what goes into it and how it's made and and maybe that's my bad for sounding like a boomer as well, but like are they just making a song and by pressing a button and putting a prompt saying make this sound like this person in this way?
34:22
>> It's it's it's but basically they've been mining and farming IP for a while now for all the existing music in the world and then it's just it just exists now and it's they're all doing deals to try to figure out how to >> at least to protect the copyright issues because there's such a minefield of copyright issues.
34:35
So, I mean that >> there's supposed to be a lot of legal battles for that.
34:38
I assume >> the horse is bolted.
34:40
What they're now trying to figure out is how they can at least pay people.
34:42
That's the very least they can do, right?
34:44
The horse >> songwriters aren't getting messed up enough. >> Exactly. [laughter] Exactly.
34:49
And by the way, you know, like we're part of an era where that is I mean, I've come from a different era to this era. I'm chasing the music. I'm chasing the art.
34:55
I'm going where the music and the fans are and the artist is. It's still complicated.
35:00
>> I also think it's more accessible than ever.
35:02
anyone on their anyone and their mom and and a kid could go on and post music now, which I think is also the thing that people couldn't do before. >> Beautiful. >> Yeah.
35:09
It's it's such a crazy and that's what this this is what also goes into the AI thing is like it's such a strange thing where there isn't sets of rules cuz every single situation needs context and it's like the craziest thing is now everyone has access. Everyone can post music.
35:23
>> I just want to know you like like and I'm lucky I get to right.
35:25
I [laughter] get to get to know you now, right?
35:27
We can actually get to know each other from now on.
35:31
But there's millions of people who listen to your music >> that won't get to really get to know the real you.
35:37
And the closest they get is the music.
35:39
But there's got to be a human, a person at the end of that experience.
35:43
>> I credit all of my success to my music um to the fact that there's a human behind it [laughter] >> and there's a story behind it.
35:49
And I that's again ordinary.
35:51
I don't think would be half as big as it is if it didn't have that story of what we've gone through and everything. >> I can feel it. People can feel it. Yeah.
35:59
>> And by the way, it's exactly the same argument that if you just made a more like nifty and and slick transition from Tik Tok into music, probably wouldn't feel it as much.
36:07
It would have been like, "Hey, I'm really good at this.
36:08
Let me do a version of that with music with a whole bunch of writers and take my audience and try to just like transfer them into this space." It doesn't work. >> It never does.
36:17
Actually, I've never seen it work like that.
36:19
I think especially again like you said before, Addison Ray is a perfect example.
36:23
>> She's a risk taker >> of how that risk paid off so well.
36:26
>> She's a risk taker and she's a true artist, man.
36:27
And that's, you know, that's why she's she's doing what she's doing.
36:30
Bro, what are you going to do?
36:31
When are you going to what are you going to do for the next few weeks?
36:32
Like, what are the holidays for you?
36:35
>> Uh, jing I'm doing a lot of jingle bell jingle balls. Jingle bells.
36:37
I'm doing a lot of performances. >> You jingle balling? >> Yeah.
36:40
I'm I'm in a different state every day, which is exciting. I go to Houston tonight.
36:43
>> Um, and I Yeah, I'm running around.
36:43
I'm coming back here a few times to do some performances with and come out with some friends.
36:49
And um, dude, it's this is the fun part of my job, though.
36:52
like this is like when tour touring is is excruciating and it's also so fun and rewarding.
36:58
>> What's the excruciating part?
36:59
>> I think the excruciating part is you I left for 8 months this year and I was home for about I think I was home for like 8 weeks or something like that. Six six to 8 weeks.
37:07
>> You travel with your wife, right? >> Yes.
37:08
But it's interesting is time still moves when you're gone.
37:11
And so I came back and I lost a lot of friends.
37:12
Like I think I lost a lot of people in my life and I think it was really easy for them to kind of write it off as uh where I where I went, you know, and and how things have gone and and it's been difficult.
37:22
>> They didn't come back.
37:22
Some of those friends didn't come back.
37:25
>> I try I it's just a >> that's a that's that that ain't right.
37:27
I mean, you should listen I what you're saying is totally right.
37:32
>> The rest of the you know life goes on.
37:34
Everyone thinks that you're moving all the time with touring, but you're not.
37:38
life is moving around you and your job is to provide everybody else with an event or an experience or an emotion or a moment.
37:44
They can then go back to their life and it's going to go on around you and you got to go to the next city and give them the exact same Polaroid in a different way.
37:52
I had to set a lot of boundaries and I had to like kind of be like, well, this is what a friend means to me and and I think it just it was difficult for people to adapt.
37:57
I think of just like >> good work though. >> I it was difficult.
38:00
I think it was I I'm one of those people who are very I'm a people pleaser.
38:04
I'm I'm a chronic people pleaser and I I get walked all over and people always go, "How do you let that happen?"
38:09
I was like, "Well, it doesn't matter cuz they're my friends."
38:10
And I think I hit a point where I was like, "You know what?
38:13
Like, you know, I think I want to go on a date with my wife and not have anyone come."
38:18
>> I was crazy boundary to set. It's nuts.
38:20
[laughter] Um or like, "Hey, like you can't like sleep on my couch every day."
38:24
>> The beautiful thing about getting married is it's a really it's it's one of the great boundary sets because now you get to be just like the boss won't have it. >> Yeah. [laughter] I love that.
38:31
No, but it's yeah, it's just been a thing for me where just like I I'm starting to become an adult.
38:37
I'm 25 years old, which is should have became an adult a long long time ago, but I think with my profession, it's obviously youth is a huge important aspect of it.
38:45
>> Alex, by the way, at the risk of sounding overly familiar given we've just met, what you've been through in your life. >> Yeah.
38:53
and the work you've done to get to a point where you're able to succinctly communicate what has happened, how it makes you feel, and what your hopes are for the future in your music >> is life's work. That is life's work. It's >> 25.
39:08
So, I'm I'm only saying that not not because you asked for it, but but cut cut yourself some adult slack here. >> Thank you. Yeah.
39:15
I I I was always shifted by everyone else's opinions.
39:16
I did what everyone else asked me to do or wanted me to do.
39:19
And when Ordinary came out and I started touring all the time, I realized that the only person I really had all the time was obviously my wife but myself.
39:25
So I started to think what I wanted.
39:28
And that was the first time in my life where I was like, "Hey, what do I want? What do I want to do? What do I want to see? Who do I want to be?"
39:32
And um tour and this new found um ability for me to have confidence in myself and my newfound ability to say no was so important for me to be able to do. And here we are.
39:45
And I'm really stoked with who I am now, which I it took me a while.
39:48
Well, you still got some nose to figure out, bro, because you because you made it here.
39:51
So, you still you still figure you got to harden your nose.
39:54
[laughter] Is canal come in? He said no. Good for him. >> Oh, I would never.
39:59
No, I love >> figured it out. Good for him. I'm proud of him. I'm proud of him.
40:02
Uh, man, I've had a really, really good time talking with you. >> Me, too.
40:07
I think there's some important conversations to have, and I think what you do is really important on that aspect as well, cuz I feel like artists especially don't really talk as much. >> Thanks, man.
40:15
Well, I'm I'm here as long as you know artists want to talk, man.
40:19
And and you make and they they make music as honest and and meaningful as yours is to people.
40:23
Um have a great time jingle balling around the country.
40:26
Uh enjoy that Christmas and that holiday season you're going to get this year because boy, I'm telling turkeys on you.
40:33
I I Whoever you're having around for for lunch, they they saw the stats, too.
40:37
Boy, turkeys [laughter] on you.
40:37
Just FYI, turkeys on you.
40:40
>> It's that ordinary turkey.
40:42
>> An ordinary [laughter] turkey.
40:42
An extraordinary turkey for an extraordinary year made by an ordinary song. There you go. All right, brother. It's good to see you. Thanks for coming in.
40:50
Thanks for having me, >> Alex Warren. Everybody. [applause]