Archie Abrams is the VP of Product and Head of Growth at Shopify, where he leads a 600+ person growth org across product, design, engineering, data, ops, and growth marketing. Shopify powers over 10% of e-commerce in the United States, with $235 billion in GMV in 2023 (roughly the size of Finland’s economy). He previously led Consumer product and growth at Lyft and was at Udemy for 8 years as SVP of Product having joined the company when it was 10 people. In our conversation, we discuss: • Why Shopify optimizes for churn • Why the core product team doesn’t use metrics-based goals • Why they keep multi-year experiment holdouts • How they structure their growth team • The benefits of not having a CMO • Lessons learned about integrating sales into a product-led growth model • The power of discounting as a growth lever • Much more — Brought to you by: • Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product: https://explo.co/lenny • Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams: https://www.dovetail.com/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams Where to find Archie Abrams: • X: https://x.com/archieabrams • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/archie-abrams-b6aa8b6/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Archie’s background (02:30) Shopify’s impressive growth (06:17) Shopify’s unique approach to churn and retention (08:43) Monetization model and success metrics (11:08) Long-term experimentation and metrics (23:00) Examples of big wins that Archie’s team has shipped (26:42) Monetary friction (27:14) Metrics (29:47) Shopify’s growth team structure (33:03) Goal setting and forecasting (37:10) Examples of long-term results within Shopify (41:36) Shipping neutral experiments (42:05) Building a hundred-year company (48:04) Why Shopify doesn’t use KPIs (51:30) Shopify’s “Get shit done” framework (54:30) Cross-team collaboration (58:48) The importance of an opinionated founder (01:01:12) Growth and sales integration (01:06:42) Shopify’s marketing structure (01:08:49) Insights on discounting from Udemy (01:11:09) Lightning round Referenced: • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ • Tobias Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke • Gross Merchandise Value: Calculation and Best Practices: https://www.shopify.com/retail/gross-merchandise-value • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach • Glen Coates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glcoates • Harley Finkelstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harleyf • Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/ • Scientific Advertising: https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Advertising-Original-Claude-Hopkins/dp/1640954252 • Four-Minute Mile: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Minute-Mile-Roger-Bannister/dp/1493038753/ • The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos • Suno: https://suno.com/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Farhan Thawar is the head of engineering at Shopify, where he oversees more than 1,000 engineers and a platform that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Before Shopify, he was VP of engineering at Pivotal Labs and Xtreme Labs, and co-founder of Helpful.com. In our conversation, Farhan shares: • Why choosing the harder path leads to better outcomes • How to create intensity within your org (without burnout) • Why every company should be embracing pair programming • How he hires without interviewing • How he built the world’s largest internship program • His mission to create a “crafter’s paradise” for engineers • Much more — Brought to you by: • DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity: https://getdx.com/lenny • Persona—A global leader in digital identity verification: https://withpersona.com/lenny • Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawar Where to find Farhan Thawar: • X: https://x.com/fnthawar • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fnthawar Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Farhan’s background (05:38) Choosing the hard path (09:37) Getting comfortable with looking dumb (13:20) Lessons from working with visionaries (19:19) Creating intensity in organizations (22:06) The power of pair programming (29:18) Shopify’s culture of intensity (37:18) Meeting Armageddon: revolutionizing company meetings (39:46) Reducing distractions (41:10) Deleting 1M+ lines of code (49:05) Three buckets of building (57:45) Remote work and trust battery (01:00:29) Finding stability in uncomfortable times (01:03:14) Hiring philosophy (01:11:41) Internship programs and co-op systems (01:15:32) Lessons from managing 120 direct reports (01:20:40) Failure corner (01:27:46) Lightning round and closing thoughts Referenced: • The Steve Jobs quote about connecting dots: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/463176-you-can-t-connect-the-dots-looking-forward-you-can-only • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ • GitHub: https://github.com/ • Farhan’s “questions to ask” framework: https://x.com/fnthawar/status/1514193402828574721 • Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/ • Joe Liemandt: https://www.linkedin.com/in/liemandt • Chamath Palihapitya: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamath_Palihapitiya • Xtreme Labs: https://www.xtremelabs.io • Parkinson’s law: https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-parkinsons-law-6674423 • Pair programming: https://dev.to/documatic/pair-programming-best-practices-and-tools-154j • Cody Fauser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyfauser • How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product • Chaos Monkey: We look at Shopify’s new ‘culture of focus’: https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/shopify-chaos-monkey-meetings-culture-deann-evans • Empowering devs with AI: How Shopify made GitHub Copilot core to its culture: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVKBwcm5dbw&t=2318s • Tobi Lütke of Shopify: Powering a Team with a ‘Trust Battery’: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/business/tobi-lutke-of-shopify-powering-a-team-with-a-trust-battery.html • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach • Stop Being Deceived by Interviews When You’re Hiring: https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesleadershipforum/2012/02/07/stop-being-deceived-by-interviews-when-youre-hiring/ • Shopify’s made the Life Story a major part of their interview: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39294140 • Internships at Shopify: https://internships.shopify.com • Nick Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-adams-32b28139 • React Native: https://reactnative.dev • Swift: https://www.swift.org • Acquired podcast: The Mark Zuckerberg interview: https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/the-mark-zuckerberg-interview • The Power of Performance Reviews: Use This System to Become a Better Manager: https://review.firstround.com/the-power-of-performance-reviews-use-this-system-to-become-a-better-manager • Airbnb’s Vlad Loktev on embracing chaos, inquiry over advocacy, poking the bear, and “impact, impact, impact” (Partner at Index Ventures, Airbnb GM/VP Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev ...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawar Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
#founder #ceo #shopify #disagreement
Tobi Lütke (Shopify Founder & CEO), Kaz Nejatian (Shopify COO), and Balaji review how Shopify rose from tiny startup to $180B+ global economy, with an annual GMV on par with the GDP of New Zealand. In the process they touch on Hayek, the Hanseatic League, merchant cavemen, the history of the corporation, and the optimal level of platform decentralization. OUTLINE 0:00 - Introduction 2:39 - Shopify has the scale of a small country 8:49 - Lifestyle businesses take up your whole life 20:52 - SMBs can be harder than startups 27:13 - Shopify could invest in its merchants 32:23 - Shopify's economy is on par with Greece or New Zealand 38:40 - Money, time, risk, attention 39:55 - Is all retail a form of arbitrage? 47:14 - The history of the corporation informs the development of smart contracts 56:57 - Founders start as lead engineer, end up as chief psychiatrist 1:00:27 - Shopify is not just technology but community 1:06:26 - The concept of computational context 1:14:34 - Shopify as a dashboard for the global economy 1:22:48 - Atoms are so much more complex than bits 1:28:41 - Balancing centralized vs decentralized at Shopify 1:43:26 - If they could start a new country, what would Tobi and Kaz build? 2:03:28 - Kaz on working at Shopify 2:04:31 - Tobi's parting thoughts LINKS 1) 100 true fans: https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ 2) Gobekli Tepe: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gobekli-tepe-the-worlds-first-temple-83613665/ 3) Shopify active merchant: https://github.com/activemerchant/active_merchant 4) Fall of Civilizations: https://www.youtube.com/@FallofCivilizations 5) Founding vs Inheriting: https://thenetworkstate.com/founding-vs-inheriting 6) Shopify careers: https://www.shopify.com/careers AUDIO 1) Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-network-state-podcast/id1594687786 2) Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/10yi2HXcA1Pepe9qEtGJCI CREDITS Editing: https://twitter.com/DholakiaJaydeep Images: https://twitter.com/elijah10t SOCIAL https://twitter.com/tobi https://twitter.com/CanadaKaz https://twitter.com/balajis https://thenetworkstate.com
Tobi Lütke is the founder and CEO of Shopify, a $130 billion business that powers over 10% of all U.S. e-commerce. Starting as a snowboard shop in 2004, Shopify has become the leading commerce platform by consistently approaching problems differently. Tobi remains deeply technical, frequently coding alongside his team, and is known for his unique approach to leadership, product development, and company building. In our conversation, we discuss: • Why complexity kills entrepreneurship • How to develop and leverage your unique talent stack • How specifically Tobi approaches thinking from first principles • The importance of focusing on unquantifiable qualities like joy and delight • Why Tobi works backward from a 100-year vision • Why metrics should support decisions, not make them • The power of following your curiosity • What Tobi believes it takes to be a great product leader • Much more — Brought to you by: • Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product: https://sinch.com/lenny • Liveblocks—Ready-made collaborative features to drop into your product: https://liveblocks.io/lenny • Loom—The easiest screen recorder you’ll ever use: http://loom.com/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook Where to find Tobi Lütke: • X: https://x.com/tobi • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke/ • Website: https://tobi.lutke.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Welcome and introduction (04:17) The Tobi tornado (07:10) Maximizing human potential (11:05) Education and personal growth (16:47) Operating without KPIs (25:00) First-principles thinking (40:04) Remote work (45:59) Why Tobi never stopped coding (54:46) Embracing disagreement (01:01:27) The 100-year vision (01:09:29) Balancing tactics and positioning (01:17:15) Encouraging entrepreneurship (01:19:34) The power of good UX (01:28:42) The talent stack and unique opportunities (01:34:30) The role of passion in product development (01:36:39) Final thoughts and farewell Referenced: • How Shopify builds a high-intensity culture | Farhan Thawar (VP and Head of Eng): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-a-high-intensity-culture-farhan-thawar • Breaking the rules of growth: Why Shopify bans KPIs, optimizes for churn, prioritizes intuition, and builds toward a 100-year vision | Archie Abrams (VP Product, Head of Growth at Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams • The ultimate guide to performance marketing | Timothy Davis (Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/performance-marketing-timothy-davis • Brandon Chu on building product at Shopify, how writing changed the trajectory of his career, the habits that make you a great PM, pros and cons of being a platform PM, how Shopify got through Covid: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brandon-chu-on-what-its-like-to-build • IRC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC • Goodhart’s law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law • Glen Coates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glcoates/ • How Shopify builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-shopify-builds-product • The Last Dance on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80203144 • Autoregressive Models for Natural Language Processing: https://medium.com/@zaiinn440/autoregressive-models-for-natural-language-processing-b95e5f933e1f • Archimedean property: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archimedean_property • Tabula rasa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa • Daniel Weinand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielweinand/ • World of Warcraft: https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com • Harley Finkelstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harleyf/ • Monorepo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorepo • The Sarbanes Oxley Act: https://sarbanes-oxley-act.com/ • Shopify builds Shopify Balance with Stripe to give small businesses an easier way to manage money: https://stripe.com/customers/shopify • Stanford marshmallow experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment • Brian Armstrong on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barmstrong/ • We are the Web: https://link.wired.com/public/32945405 Recommended books: • Finite and Infinite Games: https://www.amazon.com/Finite-Infinite-Games-James-Carse/dp/1476731713 • The Infinite Game: https://www.amazon.com/Infinite-Game-Simon-Sinek/dp/073521350X/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
#shopify #meetings #chaosmonkey #engineering