Melissa Perri is the founder of Product Institute, author of Escaping the Build Trap, and host of the Product Thinking Podcast. She has worked with startups, Fortune 50 companies, and everything in between to help them build better products and level up their product teams. In our conversation, we discuss: • The history of the product owner role • The differences between product owners and product managers • How to transition from product owner to product manager • The evolution of and problems with the SAFe framework • How large non-tech companies can improve their product practices • Much more — Brought to you by: • Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application: https://www.pendo.io/lenny • OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny • Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri Where to find Melissa Perri: • X: https://twitter.com/lissijean • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/ • Website: https://melissaperri.com/ • Product Institute: https://productinstitute.com/ • Podcast: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Melissa’s background (02:12) The rise of the product owner role (06:37) Understanding Agile and Scrum (08:27) Challenges in Agile transformations (10:41) The history of the product owner role (13:58) The Scrum Guide (15:43) Product owner responsibilities (21:01) Adopting Scrum in organizations (26:21) The origins and implementation of SAFe (35:20) Why Melissa doesn’t recommend SAFe (40:33) Advice for implementing a digital transformation (49:12) An example of SAFe adoption (51:27) The value of experienced product leaders (56:53) Career paths for product owners (01:04:14) Transitioning from product owner to product manager (01:06:41) Be careful relying on certifications (01:11:43) Evaluating existing product owners (01:16:55) Final thoughts on Agile and product management Referenced: • Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/149197379X • Lean UX: https://leanuxnyc.co/ • Scrum: https://www.scrum.org/ • What is Extreme Programming? https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/xp/ • Capital One: https://www.capitalone.com/ • The Agile Manifesto: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/manifesto • Ken Schwaber on X: https://x.com/kschwaber • Jeff Sutherland on X: https://x.com/jeffsutherland • Kanban: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban • What is a kanban board?: https://www.atlassian.com/agile/kanban/boards • Ron Jeffries’s website: https://www.ronjeffries.com/ • Jeff Patton on X: https://x.com/jeffpatton • The Scrum Guide: https://www.scrum.org/resources/scrum-guide • OpenSky: https://www.openskycc.com/ • SAFe: https://scaledagileframework.com/ • Dean Leffingwell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deanleffingwell/ • Capital One scraps 1,100 tech positions: https://www.reuters.com/technology/capital-one-scraps-1100-tech-positions-source-2023-01-19/ • Product management theater | Marty Cagan (Silicon Valley Product Group): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-management-theater-marty • Marty Cagan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/ • Jeff Gothelf on X: https://x.com/jboogie • Shruti Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shruti-patel-32bb573a/ • Product Thinking Podcast: Mastering Product Focus: Balancing Legacy and Innovation with Shruti Patel: https://www.produxlabs.com/product-thinking-blog/2024/9/25/episode-190-mastering-product-focus-balancing-legacy-and-innovation-with-shruti-patel • Melissa Douros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissadouros/ • Mind the Product: https://www.mindtheproduct.com/ • Athenahealth: https://www.athenahealth.com/ • McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/ Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Every company wants to develop a winning strategy—but what are signs your strategy isn’t working, and how do you change course? Melissa Perri has worked trained PMs and product leaders at nearly all the Fortune 100 companies, and in this conversation shares how to reset a struggling strategy, align your team, and build winning strategy. Join us. Find the full transcript here: https://www.podpage.com/lennys-podcast/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy-melissa-perri/#transcript — Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for making this episode possible: • Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/ • RevenueCat: https://www.revenuecat.com/ • Makelog: https://www.makelog.com/lenny — Where to find Melissa: • Website: https://melissaperri.com/ • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lissijean • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/ — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ — Referenced: • Melissa’s Book: https://melissaperri.com/book — In this episode, we cover: [00:00] What to expect with guest Melissa Perri [02:57] Melissa’s incredibly vast experience working with product manager’s [04:20] Melissa’s current focus: training and education of PM’s [05:59] The most common problems that product teams face [09:48] When to hire your first CPO [14:27] What to do before hiring a CPO [16:16] When to bring an interim CPO consultant like Melissa [21:26] Signs your team doesn’t have a strategy [22:59] Identifying your vision, strategy and intentions as a company [27:48] Signs you’re doing a bad job as a PM [30:30] The process of defining strategic visions [33:28] How to hone your craft as a PM [43:55] Melissa’s Book — Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value [48:43] How to avoid burnout [52:19] Where to find Melissa
Melissa Perri is the CEO of Produx Labs, a product management training organization; author of the seminal PM book The Build Trap; and a former Harvard Business School professor of product management. Denise Tilles is the CPO at Grocket, Melissa’s colleague at Produx Labs, and a seasoned product leader with over a decade of experience. Together they authored the new book Product Operations: How successful companies build better products at scale. In today’s episode, they share insights, strategies, and real-world experiences to master all things product ops. We discuss: • What exactly product operations is • The three pillars of the product ops role • The biggest benefits of adding product ops to your organization • Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own • How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops • Examples of companies that have implemented product ops well • Who and how to hire for this role — This entire episode is brought to you by Jira Product Discovery—Atlassian’s new prioritization and roadmapping tool built for product teams: https://atlassian.com/lenny/?utm_source=lennypodcast&utm_medium=paid-audio&utm_campaign=fy24q1-jpd-imc Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-product-operations-melissa-perri-and-denise-tilles/#transcript Where to find Melissa Perri: • X: https://twitter.com/lissijean • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissajeanperri/ • Website: https://produxlabs.com/ Where to find Denise Tilles: • X: https://twitter.com/dtilles • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisetilles/ • Website: https://www.denisetilles.com Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) About our guests, Melissa Perri and Denise Tilles (03:46) How common is the product operations role? (07:41) The benefits of having a product ops person in your organization (09:16) How to help PMs embrace the value of product ops (11:44) The three pillars of the product ops role (15:25) How user research fits in (18:35) Why product ops will be an essential role for product managers to thrive (24:24) Which tasks product managers should offload to product ops and which they need to own (28:58) Project management vs. product ops (29:44) The jobs of a product ops person (37:38) Why the product ops role will never become obsolete (39:31) How many product ops people you need (45:13) First steps in building out a product ops team (47:06) What to look for in your first hire (51:11) Key skills needed for a product ops person (57:29) Who product ops should report to (59:50) An example of rolling out product ops at Athena Health (1:09:35) Lightning round Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.