Eli Schwartz is a leading SEO consultant and the author of Product-Led SEO. He has worked with industry giants like Zapier, Tinder, Coinbase, Quora, LinkedIn, and WordPress to build and execute global SEO strategies that significantly enhanced their organic visibility at scale. In our conversation, Eli shares: • How AI and LLMs are reshaping the SEO landscape • Why you should be focused on mid-funnel SEO strategies • How to determine if SEO is the right approach for your business • Why SEO should be treated as a product rather than just a marketing tactic • SEO myths • The future of search in light of recent legal challenges faced by Google • Much more — Brought to you by: • Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application: https://www.pendo.io/lenny • Brave Search—A smarter way to search: https://brave.com/lenny • OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz Where to find Eli Schwartz: • X: https://x.com/5le • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/ • Website: https://www.elischwartz.co/ • Newsletter: https://www.productledseo.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Eli’s background (02:10) The impact of AI on SEO strategies (11:34) Understanding search intent (15:30) Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data (20:19) Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies (22:57) Case studies (31:29) Steps for getting started with SEO (35:20) Examples of when not to focus on SEO (39:17) Evaluating SEO investment (44:00) Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels (46:23) SEO conversion metrics and expectations (52:09) Understanding the time horizon of SEO (59:37) The role of AI in content creation (01:05:26) AI overviews (01:07:40) Brand building and SEO (01:09:51) Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies (01:16:06) Insights from the Google antitrust verdict (01:20:36) Google’s dominance in search (01:23:52) The future of SEO and user choice (01:26:28) SEO myths debunked (01:36:58) Forecasting SEO success (01:44:18) The need for SEO expertise (01:46:26) Lightning round and closing thoughts Referenced: • Product-Led SEO: The Why Behind Building Your Organic Growth Strategy: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Led-SEO-Building-Organic-Strategy/dp/1544519567 • SurveyMonkey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/ • Google AI: https://ai.google/ • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ • Claude: https://claude.ai/ • G2: https://www.g2.com/ • Riverside: https://riverside.fm/ • Zapier: https://zapier.com/ • Wade Foster on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wadefoster/ • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/ • Tinder: https://tinder.com/ • Udi Milo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udimilo/ • The ultimate guide to SEO | Ethan Smith (Graphite): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-seo-ethan-smith • Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/ • Vanta: https://www.vanta.com • Quora: https://www.quora.com/ • Canva: https://www.canva.com • Notion: https://www.notion.so/ • Red Ventures: https://www.redventures.com/ • CNet: https://www.cnet.com/ • Noah Smith on X: https://x.com/noahpinion • Noahpinion newsletter: https://www.noahpinion.blog/ • Leveraging growth advisors, hiring well, mastering SEO, and honing your craft | Luc Levesque (Shopify, Meta, TripAdvisor): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/leveraging-growth-advisors-hiring • Tripadvisor: https://www.tripadvisor.com/ • Zillow: https://www.zillow.com/ • Capterra: https://www.capterra.com/ • U.S. v. Google: all the news from the search antitrust showdown: https://www.theverge.com/23869483/us-v-google-search-antitrust-case-updates • Bing: https://www.bing.com/ • Neeva: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neeva • Google’s tweet about the antitrust case: https://x.com/Google_Comms/status/1820558371285508123 • Mailbag: Google and Antitrust Festivus, Credit Card Dominance, AI for Movies and Writing, Shohei’s Contract | Sharp Tech with Ben Thompson: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/mailbag-google-and-antitrust-festivus-credit-card/id1646152812?i=1000638448429 • DuckDuckGo: https://duckduckgo.com/ • Kayak: https://www.kayak.com/ • Expedia: https://www.expedia.com/ • Faire: https://www.faire.com/ • Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ • WordPress: https://wordpress.com/ • Semrush: https://www.semrush.com/ • Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ • Similarweb: https://www.similarweb.com/ ...References continued at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Eli Schwartz - https://twitter.com/5le - is the Director of SEO and Growth at SurveyMonkey - https://www.surveymonkey.com/. He came in to answer commonly asked questions about SEO. Eli blogs about SEO and growth at http://www.elischwartz.co/ The YC podcast is hosted by Craig Cannon - https://twitter.com/craigcannon *** Topics 00:00 - Does SEO matter in 2018? 2:00 - Where should a company start with SEO? 3:30 - Who’s doing SEO well? 4:25 - Why is Amazon doing SEO well? 5:25 - How should you crosslink? 7:10 - Paying for links 7:35 - SEO don’t dos 8:15 - Things that are no longer useful in SEO 9:20 - Keywords 12:45 - Reviews 13:25 - Content 17:25 - Images 22:45 - Link building 28:00 - How much time to give SEO? 28:30 - Mobile 30:35 - Ranking 31:45 - International SEO 33:45 - Translation 37:15 - International search 39:30 - GDPR 41:50 - Hiring someone to do SEO 43:45 - What to do when you organic SEO disappears 46:30 - Metrics for an SEO hire 48:30 - Tools for SEO 50:00 - Getting started in SEO